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(Fox 40 Sacramento)   Middle class income is finally back to where it was in 2000. You fell asleep reading this after working your second job   ( fox40.com) divider line
    More: Murica, content, region  
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2350 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2018 at 12:20 PM (10 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-09-12 10:27:30 AM  
And inflation has managed 42% in that time.
 
2018-09-12 12:14:13 PM  

edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.


Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).
 
2018-09-12 12:21:37 PM  
Seeing as how I'm making almost the same wages as I did in 2000, agreed.
 
2018-09-12 12:26:51 PM  

Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).


Nowhere in TFA did it mention inflation or adjustment, and only once in the CNN source article did it mention inflation regarding a particular fact. Not that I'm here to rabble-rouse, it's just to note that this article sucks for such facts, and if you have citations that'd be great.
 
2018-09-12 12:28:50 PM  
What if the rich could only afford three yachts? When we all know they deserve at least five.
 
2018-09-12 12:31:51 PM  
What counts as middle class? What about savings? What about housing costs? The price of education, basic goods?
 
2018-09-12 12:32:58 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

Nowhere in TFA did it mention inflation or adjustment, and only once in the CNN source article did it mention inflation regarding a particular fact. Not that I'm here to rabble-rouse, it's just to note that this article sucks for such facts, and if you have citations that'd be great.


I agree that the article was crap.  TBH, I know some of these stats off the top of my head for work.  Here's a link. It's for median income, not middle class, but they track similarly.  Fyi, "real" means "inflation-adjusted".
 
2018-09-12 12:33:14 PM  
I WISH it was only 2 jobs.  I'm in the interview process for my 4th job.  One full time, two part time teaching gigs, and hopefully this 4th job.
 
2018-09-12 12:33:22 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

Nowhere in TFA did it mention inflation or adjustment, and only once in the CNN source article did it mention inflation regarding a particular fact. Not that I'm here to rabble-rouse, it's just to note that this article sucks for such facts, and if you have citations that'd be great.


I've never heard CNN and facts mentioned in the same sentence before.
 
2018-09-12 12:34:40 PM  

stranger things have happened: I WISH it was only 2 jobs.  I'm in the interview process for my 4th job.  One full time, two part time teaching gigs, and hopefully this 4th job.


Let me guess, Trump's fault ?
 
2018-09-12 12:36:36 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Nowhere in TFA did it mention inflation


Inflation?  That's like math, right?  Math is hard.  I was told there would be no math.
 
2018-09-12 12:38:42 PM  

Fissile: I was told there would be no math.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-12 12:41:30 PM  
Back?  So you show a bar graph of the two data points?
img.fark.netView Full Size


Next time try a line graph with more data points.
 
2018-09-12 12:42:35 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

Nowhere in TFA did it mention inflation or adjustment, and only once in the CNN source article did it mention inflation regarding a particular fact. Not that I'm here to rabble-rouse, it's just to note that this article sucks for such facts, and if you have citations that'd be great.


Like Friedman, Sowell, etc...
 
2018-09-12 12:44:42 PM  

TylerParry: What if the rich could only afford three yachts? When we all know they deserve at least five.


That would be good for the yacht builders.
 
2018-09-12 12:44:51 PM  

dj_spanmaster: Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

Nowhere in TFA did it mention inflation or adjustment, and only once in the CNN source article did it mention inflation regarding a particular fact. Not that I'm here to rabble-rouse, it's just to note that this article sucks for such facts, and if you have citations that'd be great.


I was going to say "mybad" because I didn't see anything about inflation adjustment. Might have missed it.

My own personal experience as a government employee, once an automatic raise every year deal, is my pay did not keep up with inflation during that time. I can't imagine that regular schmos got a better deal given all that's gone on economically during that period.
 
2018-09-12 12:46:42 PM  

stranger things have happened: I WISH it was only 2 jobs.  I'm in the interview process for my 4th job.  One full time, two part time teaching gigs, and hopefully this 4th job.


I hear yah. I'm currently working 4 jobs and am prepping my resume for either new 5th job, or something to replace my 3rd. It's not bad at all. You don't know how much time you waste playing video games and eating cheetos until you actually have to literally divide your days by minutes.

/Technically I work 5 jobs, but I don't get paid for it so it doesn't count.
 
2018-09-12 12:48:09 PM  

edmo: dj_spanmaster: Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

Nowhere in TFA did it mention inflation or adjustment, and only once in the CNN source article did it mention inflation regarding a particular fact. Not that I'm here to rabble-rouse, it's just to note that this article sucks for such facts, and if you have citations that'd be great.

I was going to say "mybad" because I didn't see anything about inflation adjustment. Might have missed it.

My own personal experience as a government employee, once an automatic raise every year deal, is my pay did not keep up with inflation during that time. I can't imagine that regular schmos got a better deal given all that's gone on economically during that period.


They did.  Federal wages have not kept up with inflation since the recession.  Private wages have generally exceeded it by 1 or 2 percent.
 
2018-09-12 12:49:38 PM  
This is the Trump timeline. Being middle class is for beta cucks.
 
2018-09-12 12:50:20 PM  

Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).


you must be a blast at BBQ's. i wanna party with you, madman.
 
2018-09-12 12:53:52 PM  

sinko swimo: Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

you must be a blast at BBQ's. i wanna party with you, madman.


Just to be fair, you're employing a rhetorical device known as "sarcasm" to indicate the opposite of what your statement, taken at face value, would lead one to believe.
 
2018-09-12 12:54:09 PM  
As a systems analyst and college dropout with no certs... threads like this make me feel lucky and guilty at the same time.
 
2018-09-12 01:00:51 PM  

Algebrat: They did. Federal wages have not kept up with inflation since the recession. Private wages have generally exceeded it by 1 or 2 percent.


God, I hate this kind of obvious disinformation.

Why Wages Aren't Growing in America

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/article​s/2017-09-21/why-wages-aren-t-growing

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

It's an easy Google, is what makes your comments so frustrating.
 
2018-09-12 01:01:58 PM  
.
.
.
.
.
.
and this is why we can't retire.
.
.
.
.
.
 
2018-09-12 01:11:35 PM  
And, how has government spending fared over the same period? Congressional pay/ perks?
 
2018-09-12 01:12:07 PM  

Algebrat: dj_spanmaster: Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

Nowhere in TFA did it mention inflation or adjustment, and only once in the CNN source article did it mention inflation regarding a particular fact. Not that I'm here to rabble-rouse, it's just to note that this article sucks for such facts, and if you have citations that'd be great.

I agree that the article was crap.  TBH, I know some of these stats off the top of my head for work.  Here's a link. It's for median income, not middle class, but they track similarly.  Fyi, "real" means "inflation-adjusted".


Oof, I knew that and had forgotten. Thanks for the link anyway, it's appreciated
 
2018-09-12 01:13:54 PM  
And, the more Third World immigrants (willing to work for a mere pittance) you strive to import, the more that "real" wages will remain depressed.
 
2018-09-12 01:19:13 PM  

whidbey: Algebrat: They did. Federal wages have not kept up with inflation since the recession. Private wages have generally exceeded it by 1 or 2 percent.

God, I hate this kind of obvious disinformation.

Why Wages Aren't Growing in America

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/article​s/2017-09-21/why-wages-aren-t-growing

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

It's an easy Google, is what makes your comments so frustrating.


Oh, for heaven's sake.  I'm just saying that Federal wages have been more stagnant than Private wages since 2000.  Edmo's personal experience, than nominal wages haven't kept pace with inflation, is true for Federal employees, but not for the US median wage.  The latter, since 2000, has JUST BARELY exceeded inflation.

I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS GOOD.

Again, there are many, many problems with US income and wealth distribution that desperately need to be addressed through policy.  I just wanted to correct a minor point that's a common misconception.  Median wages have just barely exceeded inflation.  That means the same thing as stagnant.  *I agree with you*

Final technical point on the chart in your second link:
img.fark.netView Full Size

It makes a great point, but please note that it's for non-supervisory employees.  That means it covers the bottom ~80% of US employees, which means it's going to be even more stagnant than the median wage.  It's absolutely correct, but it's also consistent with the statement "US median wage, adjusted for inflation, is at an all-time high."  That statement can be amended with "... while also being essentially flat, and actually below flat for line workers."
 
2018-09-12 01:25:29 PM  

HAMMERTOE: And, the more Third World immigrants (willing to work for a mere pittance) you strive to import, the more that "real" wages will remain depressed.


static.giantbomb.comView Full Size


*sigh*
 
2018-09-12 01:35:44 PM  

TheGogmagog: Back?  So you show a bar graph of the two data points?
[img.fark.net image 331x247]

Next time try a line graph with more data points.


Quick googling...

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-12 01:39:36 PM  

HAMMERTOE: And, the more Third World immigrants (willing to work for a mere pittance) you strive to import, the more that "real" wages will remain depressed.


I'm sure Georgia is just being flooded with immigrants. I heard that the mailman is an Italian!
 
2018-09-12 01:41:22 PM  

HAMMERTOE: And, the more Third World immigrants (willing to work for a mere pittance) you strive to import, the more that "real" wages will remain depressed.


Shows what you know.  Most of the immigrants I know go home after working here a few years, because the standard of living for working people is much better in their home country.  They come here hoping to break into middle class jobs, which do provide a better life, but if they can not find a path into those, they go home.  This is not good for our long term prospects of our country.
 
2018-09-12 01:47:55 PM  
According to wapo, the middle class is now earning more than ever:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busine​s​s/2018/09/12/middle-class-income-hit-a​n-all-time-high-last-year-us-census-sa​ys/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ccaba7a692​2d

"Middle-class income rose to the highest recorded levels in 2017 and the national poverty rate declined as the benefits of the strong economy lifted the fortunes of more Americans, the U.S. Census reported Wednesday."
 
2018-09-12 01:48:16 PM  

chaoswolf: As a systems analyst and college dropout with no certs... threads like this make me feel lucky and guilty at the same time.


never feel guilty for success.
 
2018-09-12 01:50:11 PM  

winedrinkingman: HAMMERTOE: And, the more Third World immigrants (willing to work for a mere pittance) you strive to import, the more that "real" wages will remain depressed.

Shows what you know.  Most of the immigrants I know go home after working here a few years, because the standard of living for working people is much better in their home country.  They come here hoping to break into middle class jobs, which do provide a better life, but if they can not find a path into those, they go home.  This is not good for our long term prospects of our country.


Any stats or citations to support that?
 
2018-09-12 01:51:10 PM  

lordargent: TheGogmagog: Back?  So you show a bar graph of the two data points?
[img.fark.net image 331x247]

Next time try a line graph with more data points.

Quick googling...

[img.fark.net image 850x646]


Studied, academically sound, Googling...

dumdumpops.comView Full Size
 
2018-09-12 01:53:22 PM  

Emoto: According to wapo, the middle class is now earning more than ever:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busines​s/2018/09/12/middle-class-income-hit-a​n-all-time-high-last-year-us-census-sa​ys/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ccaba7a692​2d

"Middle-class income rose to the highest recorded levels in 2017 and the national poverty rate declined as the benefits of the strong economy lifted the fortunes of more Americans, the U.S. Census reported Wednesday."


Btw, that article is quoting the same Census release as the NYT one (and the even crappier local Fox rewrite).  I didn't link it earlier because of the paywall.  And again, it's not inconsistent with saying that middle class wages have been stagnant for decades.  There's half-decent growth since 2009, but almost no growth since 2007, or 2000, or the 60s.  Adjusted for inflation, of course.
 
2018-09-12 02:01:33 PM  
Call me crazy, but I'm more interested in seeing data for happiness & satisfaction of life.

Who cares about income if people are miserable?
 
2018-09-12 02:06:12 PM  
I'll believe it when MY income is back to that level.
 
2018-09-12 02:12:37 PM  
Sorry, meant to say CNN above, not NYT.  Well, since I'm so active in this thread anyway, I may as well respond to the dumbest post in it.

HAMMERTOE: And, the more Third World immigrants (willing to work for a mere pittance) you strive to import, the more that "real" wages will remain depressed.


Where to start.  First of all, you suck.  I don't have a link for that, but I'm sure I'm right.  Next, "Third World" refers to the non-aligned movement, i.e. countries neutral in the Cold War.  But I know you don't mean that.  You mean sh*tholes.  You almost certainly mean Mexico, the country with the 11th largest economy in the world by purchasing power parity.  Or perhaps India, with the third largest.

But you don't even mean how developed their economies are.  You probably mean something about standard of living, with more than a hint of racial undertone.  So I posit this: the US didn't have any immigration quotas at all until the 1920s.  The modern system was put in place by the Hart-Celler act in 1965, and does exactly what you ask for: ties immigration to job skills and educational attainment, heavily favoring countries with a higher standard of living in the process.  You'll probably say something about illegal immigration, but net migration accross the US/Mexico border has been flat to negative for the last few years, and that pre-dates Trump.  Lastly, illegal immigrants don't compete for the sorts of jobs that would have any impact on median wage.

The culprit you're looking for is automation, and the solution you SHOULD be looking for is Universal Basic Income, paid for with either a higher tax bracket or an outright wealth tax (say, 1% annually on all personal wealth above $10M).  Now THAT would make a dent in the disparity between lowesr and upper quintile income growth.
 
2018-09-12 02:14:41 PM  
Subby, that headline is dangerously close to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez-level stupidity.
 
2018-09-12 02:15:55 PM  

edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.


LOL and you got 12 smart votes
How can you take people serious here when they can't even be bothered to understand a statistic is already normalized?
 
2018-09-12 02:20:00 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: Subby, that headline is dangerously close to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez-level stupidity.


But she isn't stupid, and she makes you mad as fark.
 
2018-09-12 02:27:21 PM  

Jed_c: stranger things have happened: I WISH it was only 2 jobs.  I'm in the interview process for my 4th job.  One full time, two part time teaching gigs, and hopefully this 4th job.

Let me guess, Trump's fault ?


Nope.  I want certain things and I don't believe in running up a huge credit card debt to get them.  Right now I have about 3k in credit card debt and that is mostly from DragonCon a couple of weeks ago.  I'll pay it off in the next few months - quicker if I get to start the 4th job soon.
 
2018-09-12 02:27:29 PM  

whidbey: Kangaroo_Ralph: Subby, that headline is dangerously close to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez-level stupidity.

But she isn't stupid, and she makes you mad as fark.


Well, I happen to like her (she's in the next district over from me, but I would have gladly voted for her had it been my district.  Crowley got complacent.)

But that doesn't mean you should knee-jerk to bad stats.  We can beat them on the facts.
 
2018-09-12 02:32:27 PM  

Algebrat: whidbey: Kangaroo_Ralph: Subby, that headline is dangerously close to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez-level stupidity.

But she isn't stupid, and she makes you mad as fark.

Well, I happen to like her (she's in the next district over from me, but I would have gladly voted for her had it been my district.  Crowley got complacent.)

But that doesn't mean you should knee-jerk to bad stats.  We can beat them on the facts.


Like I said, earlier, I am making the same amount as I did in 2000.

I don't disagree with tfh. The rich are getting richer, and we're making about the same--or less.
 
2018-09-12 02:52:54 PM  

ng2810: stranger things have happened: I WISH it was only 2 jobs.  I'm in the interview process for my 4th job.  One full time, two part time teaching gigs, and hopefully this 4th job.

I hear yah. I'm currently working 4 jobs and am prepping my resume for either new 5th job, or something to replace my 3rd. It's not bad at all. You don't know how much time you waste playing video games and eating cheetos until you actually have to literally divide your days by minutes.

/Technically I work 5 jobs, but I don't get paid for it so it doesn't count.


If I may ask.. why are you having 5 jobs some of which you do not get paid for? Is it a work experience intern thing?
 
2018-09-12 02:54:39 PM  

Jed_c: stranger things have happened: I WISH it was only 2 jobs.  I'm in the interview process for my 4th job.  One full time, two part time teaching gigs, and hopefully this 4th job.

Let me guess, Trump's fault ?


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-12 02:57:21 PM  

DaShredda: Call me crazy, but I'm more interested in seeing data for happiness & satisfaction of life.

Who cares about income if people are miserable?


Dunno, but it would probably make me a happier person if I didn't have to worry about scrounging up enough money to keep the heat on in the winter....
 
2018-09-12 03:48:31 PM  

Cdr.Murdock: DaShredda: Call me crazy, but I'm more interested in seeing data for happiness & satisfaction of life.

Who cares about income if people are miserable?

Dunno, but it would probably make me a happier person if I didn't have to worry about scrounging up enough money to keep the heat on in the winter....


True, I also would like to make more than 1/7th my income from 10 years ago. I wasn't making loads then either, but making way way way way less now!!!! wooohoooo
 
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