edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

dj_spanmaster: Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

Nowhere in TFA did it mention inflation or adjustment, and only once in the CNN source article did it mention inflation regarding a particular fact. Not that I'm here to rabble-rouse, it's just to note that this article sucks for such facts, and if you have citations that'd be great.

I agree that the article was crap.  TBH, I know some of these stats off the top of my head for work.  Here's a link. It's for median income, not middle class, but they track similarly.  Fyi, "real" means "inflation-adjusted".

edmo: dj_spanmaster: Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

Nowhere in TFA did it mention inflation or adjustment, and only once in the CNN source article did it mention inflation regarding a particular fact. Not that I'm here to rabble-rouse, it's just to note that this article sucks for such facts, and if you have citations that'd be great.

I was going to say "mybad" because I didn't see anything about inflation adjustment. Might have missed it.

My own personal experience as a government employee, once an automatic raise every year deal, is my pay did not keep up with inflation during that time. I can't imagine that regular schmos got a better deal given all that's gone on economically during that period.

They did.  Federal wages have not kept up with inflation since the recession.  Private wages have generally exceeded it by 1 or 2 percent.

sinko swimo: Algebrat: edmo: And inflation has managed 42% in that time.

Just to be fair, those numbers are adjusted to inflation.  There are many, many other problems with wealth disparity in the US, including the fact that top 10%, top 1% and top 0.1% incomes (and more importantly, total wealth) have risen far faster than inflation since 2000, while the bottom 2 quintiles have actually not kept pace with inflation.  But for sake of accuracy, what the headline is saying is that adjusted for inflation, middle class incomes reached an all-time high in 2016 (and are continuing to rise; final 2017 numbers will be out later this week).

you must be a blast at BBQ's. i wanna party with you, madman.

Just to be fair, you're employing a rhetorical device known as "sarcasm" to indicate the opposite of what your statement, taken at face value, would lead one to believe.

whidbey: Algebrat: They did. Federal wages have not kept up with inflation since the recession. Private wages have generally exceeded it by 1 or 2 percent.

God, I hate this kind of obvious disinformation.

Why Wages Aren't Growing in America

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/article​s/2017-09-21/why-wages-aren-t-growing

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

It's an easy Google, is what makes your comments so frustrating.

Oh, for heaven's sake.  I'm just saying that Federal wages have been more stagnant than Private wages since 2000.  Edmo's personal experience, than nominal wages haven't kept pace with inflation, is true for Federal employees, but not for the US median wage.  The latter, since 2000, has JUST BARELY exceeded inflation.

I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS GOOD.

Again, there are many, many problems with US income and wealth distribution that desperately need to be addressed through policy.  I just wanted to correct a minor point that's a common misconception.  Median wages have just barely exceeded inflation.  That means the same thing as stagnant.  *I agree with you*

Final technical point on the chart in your second link:

It makes a great point, but please note that it's for non-supervisory employees.  That means it covers the bottom ~80% of US employees, which means it's going to be even more stagnant than the median wage.  It's absolutely correct, but it's also consistent with the statement "US median wage, adjusted for inflation, is at an all-time high."  That statement can be amended with "... while also being essentially flat, and actually below flat for line workers."

Emoto: According to wapo, the middle class is now earning more than ever:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busines​s/2018/09/12/middle-class-income-hit-a​n-all-time-high-last-year-us-census-sa​ys/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ccaba7a692​2d

"Middle-class income rose to the highest recorded levels in 2017 and the national poverty rate declined as the benefits of the strong economy lifted the fortunes of more Americans, the U.S. Census reported Wednesday."

Btw, that article is quoting the same Census release as the NYT one (and the even crappier local Fox rewrite).  I didn't link it earlier because of the paywall.  And again, it's not inconsistent with saying that middle class wages have been stagnant for decades.  There's half-decent growth since 2009, but almost no growth since 2007, or 2000, or the 60s.  Adjusted for inflation, of course.

Sorry, meant to say CNN above, not NYT.  Well, since I'm so active in this thread anyway, I may as well respond to the dumbest post in it.

HAMMERTOE: And, the more Third World immigrants (willing to work for a mere pittance) you strive to import, the more that "real" wages will remain depressed.

Where to start.  First of all, you suck.  I don't have a link for that, but I'm sure I'm right.  Next, "Third World" refers to the non-aligned movement, i.e. countries neutral in the Cold War.  But I know you don't mean that.  You mean sh*tholes.  You almost certainly mean Mexico, the country with the 11th largest economy in the world by purchasing power parity.  Or perhaps India, with the third largest.

But you don't even mean how developed their economies are.  You probably mean something about standard of living, with more than a hint of racial undertone.  So I posit this: the US didn't have any immigration quotas at all until the 1920s.  The modern system was put in place by the Hart-Celler act in 1965, and does exactly what you ask for: ties immigration to job skills and educational attainment, heavily favoring countries with a higher standard of living in the process.  You'll probably say something about illegal immigration, but net migration accross the US/Mexico border has been flat to negative for the last few years, and that pre-dates Trump.  Lastly, illegal immigrants don't compete for the sorts of jobs that would have any impact on median wage.

The culprit you're looking for is automation, and the solution you SHOULD be looking for is Universal Basic Income, paid for with either a higher tax bracket or an outright wealth tax (say, 1% annually on all personal wealth above $10M).  Now THAT would make a dent in the disparity between lowesr and upper quintile income growth.

whidbey: Kangaroo_Ralph: Subby, that headline is dangerously close to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez-level stupidity.

But she isn't stupid, and she makes you mad as fark.

Well, I happen to like her (she's in the next district over from me, but I would have gladly voted for her had it been my district.  Crowley got complacent.)

But that doesn't mean you should knee-jerk to bad stats.  We can beat them on the facts.