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(The Raw Story)   In sign of solidarity, document leak reveals LDS church treats children the same as the Catholic church   ( rawstory.com) divider line
    More: Sick, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Kirton McKonkie, sex abuse allegations, Kirton McKonkie law, MormonLeaks whistleblower site, Salt Lake City, founder Ryan McKnight, LDS church  
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4011 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2018 at 6:34 AM (13 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-09-12 01:46:22 AM  
Protestants and the Boy Scouts, too. It's almost like organizations who have authority over children attract predators or something.
 
2018-09-12 02:02:40 AM  
#ustoo
 
2018-09-12 02:58:12 AM  
Why, yes, that is a PARTICULARLY farked up religious organization.

Whose prophet's only contribution to society was bank fraud.
 
2018-09-12 03:55:48 AM  
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhocking
 
2018-09-12 06:42:02 AM  
How do other organizations handle this sort of thing? I wouldn't be surprised if they all do this.
It's not right at all, but I would love to know if there are religious organizations that deal with this sort of thing appropriately.
 
2018-09-12 06:44:03 AM  
Nuke it
 
2018-09-12 06:47:02 AM  

fusillade762: Protestants and the Boy Scouts, too. It's almost like organizations who have authority over children attract predators or something.


When people want to be leaders, I'm sure they don't always want to be in that position for good reasons. Giving power to those who want it is not always a good idea - power is capable of corrupting and placing power in the hands of the corrupted is asking for trouble.
 
2018-09-12 06:48:17 AM  
The LDS church sexually abuses the Catholic church?
 
2018-09-12 06:49:56 AM  

Bill the unknowing: fusillade762: Protestants and the Boy Scouts, too. It's almost like organizations who have authority over children attract predators or something.

When people want to be leaders, I'm sure they don't always want to be in that position for good reasons. Giving power to those who want it is not always a good idea - power is capable of corrupting and placing power in the hands of the corrupted is asking for trouble.


I've always thought that the kind of people who want to be in positions of power shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them, and those who we'd want in positions of power are smart enough to avoid them.
 
2018-09-12 06:52:40 AM  
A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.
 
2018-09-12 06:54:18 AM  
Will no one purchase the chirdren mudflaps?
 
2018-09-12 06:58:49 AM  

fusillade762: Protestants and the Boy Scouts, too. It's almost like organizations who have authority over children attract predators or something.

Between Sandusky and Nassar, the B1G conference is turning into a massive case study on how these things happen.

Child molesters exist.  This is an unfortunate fact society will always have to try to minimize.  What really gets them together with children, though, are lack of transparency and accountability.  In the case of the sports, the pressure of winning initially led to the coddling of petty criminals.  You need secrecy and culpability to sustain this activity, though, so the longer you do it, the more insular and corrupt the organization gets.  At some point, the institution's only response to crime is to cover it up, at which point, well hell, why not sexual abuse?  It's how an organization can go insane.  It's not like MSU or PSU have some sort of pro-child-rape agenda, but they'd set aside ethics for so long that when there's a flaming screaming obvious case of "you need to do the right thing", they'd forgotten how!
Well, organized religion is inherently an authoritarian structure.  The leadership starts out with no sense of accountability to its followers, and even today, in many communities you're stigmatized if you leave.

We don't need to be deeply suspicious of every adult that needs to be trusted with children, but we do need to know what the hell their answer is for when things go wrong.  If their answer to a minor infraction is "mind your own f*cking business" or "have faith my child", grab your kid and GTFO.
 
2018-09-12 07:05:45 AM  

Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.


Yeah, it's like 'deacon' in the Catholic church.  It's a rank in their clergy.
 
2018-09-12 07:07:39 AM  

Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.


A friend of mine is new to Canada (and English) and she became friendly with people at her local Mormon Church. They were great to her and her family and she spent a lot of time with them for a few months. At one point I had to tell her what "elder" meant. She didn't believe me until I put it into Google Translate and then she had a great laugh.

/I don't know if she still talks to them, but I know she kept delaying her "baptism" because... coffee.
 
2018-09-12 07:10:45 AM  

Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.


Most missionaries are right out of highschool, serving a two year mission before college.
 
2018-09-12 07:11:46 AM  
i.chzbgr.comView Full Size
 
2018-09-12 07:16:08 AM  
If someone has power, the temptation is to abuse it.
 
2018-09-12 07:21:19 AM  
Patriarchal system with absolute authority over women and children? You don't say.
 
2018-09-12 07:23:56 AM  

kudayta: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

Yeah, it's like 'deacon' in the Catholic church.  It's a rank in their clergy.

Methinks you are being hard on the Papists. The deacon moniker is particularly misused by Protestants...
See the Baptist university of Wake Forest for but one example.

 
2018-09-12 07:25:29 AM  
i0.wp.comView Full Size
 
2018-09-12 07:27:45 AM  

Bedstead Polisher: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

A friend of mine is new to Canada (and English) and she became friendly with people at her local Mormon Church. They were great to her and her family and she spent a lot of time with them for a few months. At one point I had to tell her what "elder" meant. She didn't believe me until I put it into Google Translate and then she had a great laugh.

/I don't know if she still talks to them, but I know she kept delaying her "baptism" because... coffee.


Does it mean something else than usual in context? Cause i don't know either.
 
2018-09-12 07:28:19 AM  

Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.


I saw a huge group of their missionaries in the Denver airport earlier this year.  The female missionaries were "Sister" whatever.  Trading off blatant bullshiat for sexist paternalism?  I couldn't decide which was worse.
 
2018-09-12 07:33:11 AM  

Gway: kudayta: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

Yeah, it's like 'deacon' in the Catholic church.  It's a rank in their clergy.

Methinks you are being hard on the Papists. The deacon moniker is particularly misused by Protestants...
See the Baptist university of Wake Forest for but one example.


No, I'm not being hard on them.  It's just a rank in their clergy.  Catholicism is the example I used in my analogy because it's the religion I'm most familiar with.
 
2018-09-12 07:34:13 AM  

Smoking GNU: Bedstead Polisher: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

A friend of mine is new to Canada (and English) and she became friendly with people at her local Mormon Church. They were great to her and her family and she spent a lot of time with them for a few months. At one point I had to tell her what "elder" meant. She didn't believe me until I put it into Google Translate and then she had a great laugh.

/I don't know if she still talks to them, but I know she kept delaying her "baptism" because... coffee.

Does it mean something else than usual in context? Cause i don't know either.


Mormons don't use caffeine or alcohol.
 
2018-09-12 07:35:30 AM  

enry: Smoking GNU: Bedstead Polisher: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

A friend of mine is new to Canada (and English) and she became friendly with people at her local Mormon Church. They were great to her and her family and she spent a lot of time with them for a few months. At one point I had to tell her what "elder" meant. She didn't believe me until I put it into Google Translate and then she had a great laugh.

/I don't know if she still talks to them, but I know she kept delaying her "baptism" because... coffee.

Does it mean something else than usual in context? Cause i don't know either.

Mormons don't use caffeine or alcohol.


I meant the "elder" bit.
 
2018-09-12 07:36:04 AM  

Smoking GNU: enry: Smoking GNU: Bedstead Polisher: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

A friend of mine is new to Canada (and English) and she became friendly with people at her local Mormon Church. They were great to her and her family and she spent a lot of time with them for a few months. At one point I had to tell her what "elder" meant. She didn't believe me until I put it into Google Translate and then she had a great laugh.

/I don't know if she still talks to them, but I know she kept delaying her "baptism" because... coffee.

Does it mean something else than usual in context? Cause i don't know either.

Mormons don't use caffeine or alcohol.

I meant the "elder" bit.


Still a rank in their clergy, see my post above :)
 
2018-09-12 07:38:36 AM  

Bill the unknowing: fusillade762: Protestants and the Boy Scouts, too. It's almost like organizations who have authority over children attract predators or something.

When people want to be leaders, I'm sure they don't always want to be in that position for good reasons. Giving power to those who want it is not always a good idea - power is capable of corrupting and placing power in the hands of the corrupted is asking for trouble.


Which is why we should always build in safeguards that protect the children and not the institution's precious reputation.
 
2018-09-12 07:39:58 AM  

kudayta: Smoking GNU: enry: Smoking GNU: Bedstead Polisher: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

A friend of mine is new to Canada (and English) and she became friendly with people at her local Mormon Church. They were great to her and her family and she spent a lot of time with them for a few months. At one point I had to tell her what "elder" meant. She didn't believe me until I put it into Google Translate and then she had a great laugh.

/I don't know if she still talks to them, but I know she kept delaying her "baptism" because... coffee.

Does it mean something else than usual in context? Cause i don't know either.

Mormons don't use caffeine or alcohol.

I meant the "elder" bit.

Still a rank in their clergy, see my post above :)


That's it?

Well ok then.
 
2018-09-12 07:40:46 AM  
Meanwhile, the Mormon church is currently excommunicating the one Bishop who has been publicly demanding they stop having clergy privately ask children about their masturbation and sex habits https://www.azcentral.com/stor​y/news/l​ocal/mesa/2018/09/09/mesa-lds-protesto​rs-rally-support-embattled-bishop-sam-​young/1251344002/
 
2018-09-12 07:47:00 AM  

Bedstead Polisher: How do other organizations handle this sort of thing? I wouldn't be surprised if they all do this.
It's not right at all, but I would love to know if there are religious organizations that deal with this sort of thing appropriately.


When I worked in a summer camp during my college years, it was drilled into every counselor that NOBODY is ever alone with a kid one-on-one. Two staff members and a kid, two kids and a staff member, or any combination of parent/on site nurse/staff member/camper. Because the risk of anything happening was too high. Even if you were innocent and the kid is 100% lying, the mere accusation would ruin your life.

I followed the rule as an employee, but I respect the hell out of it now.
 
2018-09-12 07:52:37 AM  

winedrinkingman: Meanwhile, the Mormon church is currently excommunicating the one Bishop who has been publicly demanding they stop having clergy privately ask children about their masturbation and sex habits https://www.azcentral.com/story​/news/local/mesa/2018/09/09/mesa-lds-p​rotestors-rally-support-embattled-bish​op-sam-young/1251344002/


These organized religions are all the same.
 
2018-09-12 08:01:08 AM  
What is it about Jesus and rape, why do all of the christians seem to love raping children?
 
2018-09-12 08:11:47 AM  

kudayta: Gway: kudayta: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

Yeah, it's like 'deacon' in the Catholic church.  It's a rank in their clergy.

Methinks you are being hard on the Papists. The deacon moniker is particularly misused by Protestants...
See the Baptist university of Wake Forest for but one example.

No, I'm not being hard on them.  It's just a rank in their clergy.  Catholicism is the example I used in my analogy because it's the religion I'm most familiar with

So you admit to being riddled with the guilt of Catholicism?  Or what?

 
2018-09-12 08:12:18 AM  
Hasa Diga Eebowai — Book of Mormon (Lyric Video) [OBC]
Youtube t0uvcifPD7c
 
2018-09-12 08:15:34 AM  

Frankly Speaking: What is it about Jesus and rape, why do all of the christians seem to love raping children?


Maybe it's because a very bad interpretation of Matthew 19:14?
 
2018-09-12 08:20:58 AM  
This is why you never send your kid to jesus ranch unless you want them molested.
 
2018-09-12 08:23:07 AM  

Gway: kudayta: Gway: kudayta: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

Yeah, it's like 'deacon' in the Catholic church.  It's a rank in their clergy.

Methinks you are being hard on the Papists. The deacon moniker is particularly misused by Protestants...
See the Baptist university of Wake Forest for but one example.

No, I'm not being hard on them.  It's just a rank in their clergy.  Catholicism is the example I used in my analogy because it's the religion I'm most familiar with

So you admit to being riddled with the guilt of Catholicism?  Or what?


Guilt?  No, I feel no guilt about being around Catholic family members in my youth.  Why do you think this is some sort of attack on either Mormons or Catholics?
 
2018-09-12 08:24:23 AM  

Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.


It does have a different meaning to them.  First off, it's a clergy office, one level above priest.  The RLDS has the same structure.  RLDS believe men called to clergy offices only by God, and not because some guy says so.  Too long to explain here.  Anyway, LDS treats clergy offices like birthday presents.  When they're still boys, they're put in the office of deacon, during their teens they're priests.  When they become adults, they become elders and sent on their 'missionary mission' on bikes.  I've talked with a Mormon who did all that.  He says they view it as a male growing up in the LDS church is suppose to hit those different clergy offices as milestones.  He wasn't happy when I referred to their system birthday gifts.

RLDS treats clergy offices as a challenge to be filled, not a milestone, and we will call the cops on anyone hurting a child.  A clergy office isn't something that is to be respected above any member.  If an elder insults someone, they're to apologize in front the whole congregation if need be.  Actually hurt them, they're gone.
 
2018-09-12 08:29:18 AM  
At least in the Mormon church, these issues can be resolved via marriage counseling...
 
2018-09-12 08:30:07 AM  

puffy999: Why, yes, that is a PARTICULARLY farked up religious organization.

Whose prophet's only contribution to society was bank fraud.


That's ridiculous.  He was also an avowed sexual predator.
 
2018-09-12 08:34:19 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: Bill the unknowing: fusillade762: Protestants and the Boy Scouts, too. It's almost like organizations who have authority over children attract predators or something.

When people want to be leaders, I'm sure they don't always want to be in that position for good reasons. Giving power to those who want it is not always a good idea - power is capable of corrupting and placing power in the hands of the corrupted is asking for trouble.

I've always thought that the kind of people who want to be in positions of power shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them, and those who we'd want in positions of power are smart enough to avoid them.


"Anyone who wants to be president should on no account be allowed to do the job."

-Douglas Adams
 
2018-09-12 08:36:35 AM  

WhackingDay: Patriarchal system with absolute authority over women and children? You don't say.


Matriarchal systems are no better. Ask the peop!e abused by nuns.
 
2018-09-12 08:41:47 AM  
Everyone needs to rewatch "Spotlight".  The statistical analysis predicted that this was a clergy problem all over the country, not a just a Boston Catholic problem.  The Catholics just got caught first because the investigators were in Boston where Catholics are the largest group and because the church took the additional vile steps of reassigning priests accused of abuse.  But the fundamental discovery of the investigation is that there is widespread child molestation going on in religious institutions.

The aftermath of Spotlight was the most telling.  Instead of a united chorus from other religions condemning the Catholic church and reassuring their own faithful that they had no such problems, the rest of the American religious institutions were mostly silent or offered at most a barely tepid level of criticism.  Even the Baptists, who never miss an opportunity to slam the evil Papists, had very little to say.  This silence is damning, and now the Mormons are the next to fall.  Like the Catholics, they are heavily patriarchal and hierarchical so it makes sense they'd be the next most likely cesspool of institutional abuse.

My guess is this happening everywhere, all over the world.  Abusers are naturally drawn to positions that give them opportunity to abuse and there's no reason to not think abusers are spread equally among all ethnic and religious groups.
 
2018-09-12 08:52:27 AM  

neongoats: This is why you never send your kid to jesus ranch unless you want them molested.


I've been planning on sending my ugly daughter to jesus camp to get molested. She's 16 and so ugly that she feels like none of the boys in her school will take her virginity. She really wants to engage in sex. Her hormones are off the charts!

What if my kid is genuinely ugly?  Will she still be selected to be molested? Should I send them in erotic clothing? What's considered erotic these days on kids? I suppose i could just get a t-shirt that says "Do Me!"  on it, you know, just in case...


/just kidding. My daughter really isn't ugly.
 
2018-09-12 08:52:29 AM  

KidKorporate: puffy999: Why, yes, that is a PARTICULARLY farked up religious organization.

Whose prophet's only contribution to society was bank fraud.

That's ridiculous.  He was also an avowed sexual predator.


If only that angry mob had succeeded in neutering him after tarring-and-feathering him for farking a 13-year-old under the pretense that they were already "celestially married" and God commanded her to fark him...

I still contend that
img.fark.netView Full Size
was a more moral man than Joseph Smith. Alvis killed FOR YOUR SINS

/Joseph Smith went .500 against angry mobs
 
2018-09-12 08:54:41 AM  

kudayta: Gway: kudayta: Gway: kudayta: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

Yeah, it's like 'deacon' in the Catholic church.  It's a rank in their clergy.

Methinks you are being hard on the Papists. The deacon moniker is particularly misused by Protestants...
See the Baptist university of Wake Forest for but one example.

No, I'm not being hard on them.  It's just a rank in their clergy.  Catholicism is the example I used in my analogy because it's the religion I'm most familiar with

So you admit to being riddled with the guilt of Catholicism?  Or what?

Guilt?  No, I feel no guilt about being around Catholic family members in my youth.  Why do you think this is some sort of attack on either Mormons or Catholics?

I don't know where this attacking thing comes from, but what this has to do with your family when you were a youngun? I have lived in Ireland and can tell you, Catholic guilt exists, and is contrary to everything.

 
2018-09-12 09:00:33 AM  

Gway: kudayta: Gway: kudayta: Gway: kudayta: Pavia_Resistance: A couple pf Mormon missionairies visited my house a few weeks ago. They may have been in their early 20s but they appeared to be teenagers. They had nametags which listed their titles as "Elder". Apparently that word has a different meaning to Mormons.

Yeah, it's like 'deacon' in the Catholic church.  It's a rank in their clergy.

Methinks you are being hard on the Papists. The deacon moniker is particularly misused by Protestants...
See the Baptist university of Wake Forest for but one example.

No, I'm not being hard on them.  It's just a rank in their clergy.  Catholicism is the example I used in my analogy because it's the religion I'm most familiar with

So you admit to being riddled with the guilt of Catholicism?  Or what?

Guilt?  No, I feel no guilt about being around Catholic family members in my youth.  Why do you think this is some sort of attack on either Mormons or Catholics?

I don't know where this attacking thing comes from, but what this has to do with your family when you were a youngun? I have lived in Ireland and can tell you, Catholic guilt exists, and is contrary to everything.


Well to start with, you thought I was being hard on Catholics, and then you start asking me about feeling guilty.  All I did was point out that 'elder' is a rank in the Mormon clergy, similar to what 'deacon' is in the Catholic church.  Your behavior is oddly antagonistic.

And you're using the quote function incorrectly.  The way you've been using it appears as if I'm the one making your statements and questions.
 
2018-09-12 09:05:16 AM  

Persnickety: Everyone needs to rewatch "Spotlight".  The statistical analysis predicted that this was a clergy problem all over the country, not a just a Boston Catholic problem.  The Catholics just got caught first because the investigators were in Boston where Catholics are the largest group and because the church took the additional vile steps of reassigning priests accused of abuse.  But the fundamental discovery of the investigation is that there is widespread child molestation going on in religious institutions.

The aftermath of Spotlight was the most telling.  Instead of a united chorus from other religions condemning the Catholic church and reassuring their own faithful that they had no such problems, the rest of the American religious institutions were mostly silent or offered at most a barely tepid level of criticism.  Even the Baptists, who never miss an opportunity to slam the evil Papists, had very little to say.  This silence is damning, and now the Mormons are the next to fall.  Like the Catholics, they are heavily patriarchal and hierarchical so it makes sense they'd be the next most likely cesspool of institutional abuse.

My guess is this happening everywhere, all over the world.  Abusers are naturally drawn to positions that give them opportunity to abuse and there's no reason to not think abusers are spread equally among all ethnic and religious groups.


The Mormons and the Catholics both have rituals that encourage the young to be alone with an older male in a high position in the church from time to time.
Most branches of Christianity don't have this.
I've been in the Presbyterian Church for more than 15 years now.  I don't know what it used to be like, but from day one the "no one on one time with kids" rule was taught and followed.
 
2018-09-12 09:09:41 AM  
Whatever, bozo!  I hope you're familiar with the assume thing.
 
2018-09-12 09:36:08 AM  

fusillade762: Protestants and the Boy Scouts, too. It's almost like organizations who have authority over children attract predators or something.


The school system too.
 
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