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(Some Guy)   Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza: Lincoln was a conservative hero, and Democrats are the REAL racists. REAL racist: Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza is a fraud, the Civil War wasn't about slavery, and Lincoln was a Marxist   ( abbevilleinstitute.org) divider line
    More: Awkward, American history, American Civil War, Robert E. Lee, original American Constitution, President Donald Trump, Abraham Lincoln, American Political Thought, contemporary American society  
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1714 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Aug 2018 at 3:59 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-08-11 01:02:41 AM  
FTA:

The one very significant fact that becomes clear in his latest cinematic screed is that D'Souza is ignorant of American history, and that he is an ideological and historical fabricator who seeks, in the name of defending his adopted nation, to bend and mishandle its history to fit a preconceived narrative which satisfies his Neoconservative task masters. For him history becomes a cudgel, a weaponized arm to further the Neoconservative agenda of "equality" and "liberal democracy," both against the "farther Left," but also, very significantly, against the traditional Right and traditional conservatism...and, as well, against Southern conservatives who would dare defend their heritage and traditions.

/As much as the Neocons want to push this "Party of Lincoln" narrative, there is an element on the Right that will never accept that narrative.
//A segment of the traditional Right is proud of being the REAL racists.
 
2018-08-11 01:05:01 AM  

HighOnCraic: FTA:

The one very significant fact that becomes clear in his latest cinematic screed is that D'Souza is ignorant of American history, and that he is an ideological and historical fabricator who seeks, in the name of defending his adopted nation, to bend and mishandle its history to fit a preconceived narrative which satisfies his Neoconservative task masters. For him history becomes a cudgel, a weaponized arm to further the Neoconservative agenda of "equality" and "liberal democracy," both against the "farther Left," but also, very significantly, against the traditional Right and traditional conservatism...and, as well, against Southern conservatives who would dare defend their heritage and traditions.

/As much as the Neocons want to push this "Party of Lincoln" narrative, there is an element on the Right that will never accept that narrative.
//A segment of the traditional Right is proud of being the REAL racists.


i.e. The Republican Party
 
2018-08-11 01:15:38 AM  

phalamir: HighOnCraic: FTA:

The one very significant fact that becomes clear in his latest cinematic screed is that D'Souza is ignorant of American history, and that he is an ideological and historical fabricator who seeks, in the name of defending his adopted nation, to bend and mishandle its history to fit a preconceived narrative which satisfies his Neoconservative task masters. For him history becomes a cudgel, a weaponized arm to further the Neoconservative agenda of "equality" and "liberal democracy," both against the "farther Left," but also, very significantly, against the traditional Right and traditional conservatism...and, as well, against Southern conservatives who would dare defend their heritage and traditions.

/As much as the Neocons want to push this "Party of Lincoln" narrative, there is an element on the Right that will never accept that narrative.
//A segment of the traditional Right is proud of being the REAL racists.

i.e. The Republican Party


I tried to be kind, because I do believe that many Republicans still honestly believe that they are the big-tent party--that's sort of the point of Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza's propaganda film (although I don't that he sincerely believes anything that he's spewing, because I've read some of his book, "The End of Racism").  But there are some who read the 2012 autopsy report and figured that being more of a big-tent party would be the path to victory.  If anything, that autopsy report, and the presence of so many non-white and "cuckservative" candidates in the primaries, helped bring out the small-tent backlash vote for Trump.
 
2018-08-11 01:24:33 AM  

HighOnCraic: I tried to be kind, because I do believe that many Republicans still honestly believe that they are the big-tent party


I see no reason to be kind - they decided to fark everything into the ground for the glory of their own assholery, so fark them.

Also, the phrase you were looking for is "big-plantation party".  I grew up among these people and the only reason they want minorities around them is to grow their cotton and top up their juleps.  Every since there were Americans, there was slavery, so the conservative position is that slavery is the right and proper American way.  Anything else is showing progress and/or liberalism.
 
2018-08-11 01:54:23 AM  
It must really sting when Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza finds himself bested at the ahistorical racist apologetics screed game.
 
2018-08-11 02:10:57 AM  

stan unusual: It must really sting when Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza finds himself bested at the ahistorical racist apologetics screed game.


Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza is just as racist as the far-right fringe, but he was (accidentally?) responsible for getting the bitterly racist Sam Francis fired from the Washington Times by accurately repeating things that Sam Francis said in public, so the far-right fringe will never forgive him (well, that and the whole being brown thing).
 
2018-08-11 02:11:52 AM  
Trump himself said that it was a republican who freed the slaves therefore they're not the real racists. So why  should a convicted criminal be any more coherent than our President?
 
2018-08-11 02:23:11 AM  
The right-wing fringe's critique of Lincoln is that he was a big government centralizer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rea​l​_Lincoln

If nothing else, Trump has done a lot to limit the effectiveness of big government--and that's a big part of why he was elected.
 
2018-08-11 02:31:01 AM  

HighOnCraic: If nothing else, Trump has done a lot to limit the effectiveness of big government--and that's a big part of why he was elected


not...quite true.  Trump has limited the reach of government regulation, yes.  but he's also using the power of federal government to pick winners and losers in the marketplace.  I'm not even sure if Donny is aware of how that sort of shift is going to backfire later down the road...or that he cares about the consequences of his actions.  likely Donny really has no idea what he's doing.

at any rate, under Trump, the office of President has gone places it was never intended to go, and is doing things it's not supposed to be doing.  the GOP lost their balls, and are probably going to ram Kavanaugh thru an extremely dirty and corrupt confirmation hearing so they can impeach Rosenstein and fire Mueller.  the conservative and christian propaganda team(s) are simply prepping the lies and laying the groundwork for the inevitable backlash for those actions.
 
2018-08-11 02:37:17 AM  

Weaver95: HighOnCraic: If nothing else, Trump has done a lot to limit the effectiveness of big government--and that's a big part of why he was elected

not...quite true.  Trump has limited the reach of government regulation, yes.  but he's also using the power of federal government to pick winners and losers in the marketplace.  I'm not even sure if Donny is aware of how that sort of shift is going to backfire later down the road...or that he cares about the consequences of his actions.  likely Donny really has no idea what he's doing.

at any rate, under Trump, the office of President has gone places it was never intended to go, and is doing things it's not supposed to be doing.  the GOP lost their balls, and are probably going to ram Kavanaugh thru an extremely dirty and corrupt confirmation hearing so they can impeach Rosenstein and fire Mueller.  the conservative and christian propaganda team(s) are simply prepping the lies and laying the groundwork for the inevitable backlash for those actions.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/31/​h​ow-the-trump-administration-broke-the-​state-department/
 
2018-08-11 02:47:48 AM  

HighOnCraic: https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/31/​h​ow-the-trump-administration-broke-the-​state-department/


I work for the state level dept of education...and let me tell ya, pretty much every government agency is being run into the ground at Mach 5.  I dunno if Donny's goal was to break the US government's back but he's sure making great strides in crashing this nation back to desktop.
 
2018-08-11 02:49:55 AM  

Weaver95: HighOnCraic: https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/31/h​ow-the-trump-administration-broke-the-​state-department/

I work for the state level dept of education...and let me tell ya, pretty much every government agency is being run into the ground at Mach 5.  I dunno if Donny's goal was to break the US government's back but he's sure making great strides in crashing this nation back to desktop.


Hence, he's the exact opposite of Lincoln.
 
2018-08-11 03:02:31 AM  

HighOnCraic: Weaver95: HighOnCraic: https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/31/h​ow-the-trump-administration-broke-the-​state-department/

I work for the state level dept of education...and let me tell ya, pretty much every government agency is being run into the ground at Mach 5.  I dunno if Donny's goal was to break the US government's back but he's sure making great strides in crashing this nation back to desktop.

Hence, he's the exact opposite of Lincoln.


yes, I know Donny is the opposite of Lincoln.  the damage Trump has already done to every department in government will take DECADES to fix, if that's even possible anymore.  I think the conservatives know that they're about to get their asses kicked in the Nov mid terms, and are simply laying the propaganda groundwork to cover for their refusal to impeach trump and illegal power grab(s).  its all bullshiat anyways, but that's their 'plan'.  those stupid bastards actually think they can fire Mueller, sweep the investigation under the rug and pretend all is well.
 
2018-08-11 03:09:05 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

Party of Lincoln.
 
2018-08-11 04:04:20 AM  

Mugato: Trump himself said that it was a republican who freed the slaves therefore they're not the real racists. So why  should a convicted criminal be any more coherent than our President?


I dunno. Most of them probably are.
 
2018-08-11 04:10:14 AM  
You should see the glowing reviews of his new movie on IMDB...frightening stuff
 
2018-08-11 04:12:47 AM  
D'Souza is ignorant of American history

Or is he just deliberately twisting things to his own end? With people like this Hanlon's Razor needs to be given extra scrutiny.
 
2018-08-11 04:13:43 AM  
From the Abbeville "Purpose" page:

"Get a free gift and Abbeville Institute articles delivered to your inbox."
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-08-11 04:18:53 AM  
Yeah, call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure that a guy who was murdered a decade before a particular book was published would not be able to form an opinion on that book.
 
2018-08-11 04:24:15 AM  

King Something: Yeah, call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure that a guy who was murdered a decade before a particular book was published would not be able to form an opinion on that book.


Forget it. It's Derpertown.
 
2018-08-11 04:27:02 AM  
From the convicted felon who brought you Obama's America, and Hillary's America, comes:

img.fark.netView Full Size



Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's America


"This macaca has created yet another masterpiece." - Breitbart Movies
"I love this guy's movies but I can't wait to lynch him!" - David Duke
"This sand n***er selling out the other mud people just proves none of them can be trusted. Good movie though. Heil Hitler" - Laura Ingraham
 
2018-08-11 04:41:25 AM  
Death of a Nation - Midnight Screenings Live
Youtube E2plPiSR6II
 
2018-08-11 04:52:24 AM  
It's alarming to me on a personal level that he calls Lincoln a conservative hero. He wasn't. Not even a little bit.
 
2018-08-11 04:53:17 AM  
Dear NASA,

Please strap all of these evil, stupid bastards to the next launch into the sun.

Sincerely,
Unpainted Huffhines
 
2018-08-11 05:20:23 AM  

berylman: You should see the glowing reviews of his new movie on IMDB...frightening stuff


You do realize how easy it is to buy reviews, right?
 
2018-08-11 05:33:19 AM  

fusillade762: D'Souza is ignorant of American history

Or is he just deliberately twisting things to his own end? With people like this Hanlon's Razor needs to be given extra scrutiny.


Hanlon's Razor is fallacious. Not only are malice and stupidity not mutually exclusive, but stupid people often do things primarily or entirely out of malice. There are many situations that SHOULD be attributed to malice, even though they involve stupid people.
 
2018-08-11 05:36:25 AM  

jso2897: There are many situations that SHOULD be attributed to malice, even though they involve stupid people.


i'm pretty sure Trump is motivated primarily by malice and greed.  the stupidity is assumed, at least in Donny's case.
 
2018-08-11 05:57:59 AM  

HighOnCraic: The right-wing fringe's critique of Lincoln is that he was a big government centralizer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real​_Lincoln

If nothing else, Trump has done a lot to limit the effectiveness of big government--and that's a big part of why he was elected.


Ah, DiLorenzo.  I remember that book coming out in the midst of my dumb-college-libertarian phase.

I sat down with it at Border's, caught several errors in the book, and put it back on the shelf.
 
2018-08-11 06:07:00 AM  
These are the people you've chosen to align yourself with. Hate to see them eat your face.
 
2018-08-11 06:08:36 AM  

jaytkay: From the Abbeville "Purpose" page:

"Get a free gift and Abbeville Institute articles delivered to your inbox."
[img.fark.net image 294x337]


From an Abbeville article on July 4th vs The Swamp:

"Of the media, except for a few men like, for example, Tucker Carlson, who has the intellect and mettle to fire all cannons at any of these dishonest mountebanks who come onto his programs loaded with such guile as to assume they can con him."

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-08-11 06:33:59 AM  

Weaver95: but he's also using the power of federal government to pick winners and losers in the marketplace.


All governments to an extent pick winners and losers in the marketplace. It can't be helped -- every policy, initiative, law, plan or piece of legislation is going to help some people but hurt others (not to say it's zero sum, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum either).

What Trump is doing is worse: Not just picking winners and losers but ensuring that the winners are his friends, by letting them grift, profit and take advantage of his actions. This, by the way, is how Russia works. Trump is effectively an American oligarch.
 
2018-08-11 06:37:36 AM  

Ishkur: Trump is effectively an American oligarch.


what happens, I wonder, when everyone in this country finally figures that out?  our Founding Father mythology is not compatible with that sort of reality.
 
2018-08-11 06:46:28 AM  
"The Civil War wasn't about slavery, and Lincoln was a Marxist."

Wtf was in my coffee this morning, LSD?
 
2018-08-11 07:03:06 AM  
My take away...

Even other racists hate convicted felon dinesh dsouza.

Time to eat a bullet, you have punched through the bottom of the barrel
 
2018-08-11 07:06:27 AM  

Weaver95: Ishkur: Trump is effectively an American oligarch.

what happens, I wonder, when everyone in this country finally figures that out?  our Founding Father mythology is not compatible with that sort of reality.


His garbage followers will join in the new narrative wholeheartedly. To those folks it as all about the stigginit. Bring slavery back? Of course. Concentration camps for homos? Sure. They might even get to finish with that pesky Jew problem once and for all.
 
2018-08-11 07:10:27 AM  

Bslim: His garbage followers will join in the new narrative wholeheartedly.


they don't have the numbers to keep Donny in power OR protect him from that kind of backlash.  they're thin on the ground, and cowards as well.
 
2018-08-11 07:36:34 AM  
Sorry Conservatives, if your last civil rights hero was 150+ years ago, maybe you should stfu?
 
2018-08-11 07:56:18 AM  

HighOnCraic: stan unusual: It must really sting when Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza finds himself bested at the ahistorical racist apologetics screed game.

Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza is just as racist as the far-right fringe, but he was (accidentally?) responsible for getting the bitterly racist Sam Francis fired from the Washington Times by accurately repeating things that Sam Francis said in public, so the far-right fringe will never forgive him (well, that and the whole being brown thing).


They also can't let go of their jealousy. He banged two of their Nazi Barbies, Coulter and Ingram.
 
2018-08-11 07:57:11 AM  
Wow, a rarity: A headline where absolutely everyone is wrong.

Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza isn't a Convicted Felon anymore.
Abe Lincoln was not a conservative in today's sense; though he tried to "conserve" the union. But he was by no means a liberal, either in that day's sense or todays; he was ambivalent about slavery, and was pushed into emancipating Northern slaves as a solidarity movement by abolitionists.
The Civil War was definitely about slavery, but it was not solely about slavery; that was just the biggest thing on the menu over who controlled the states that had been brewing since the Revolution ended.  I personally think the Civil War would still have happened had the US been truly enlightened and banned slavery from the beginning.
And the Democrats of the time were largely slave-owners, thus, yes, racists.
 
2018-08-11 07:58:59 AM  
In his first message to Congress in December 1861, Lincoln criticized the "effort to place capital on an equal footing with, if not above, labor in the structure of government." Instead, he insisted, "labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor . . . Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."  "our idea is that Labor needs not to combat but to commandCapital."

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2012/08/li​n​coln-and-marx

The failure of the 1848 revolts, and the brutal crackdowns that followed, led many leading European radicals to take refuge in the United States, and Lincoln's circle of supporters would eventually include some of Karl Marx's closest associates and intellectual sparring partners, including Joseph Weydemeyer and August Willich. Weydemeyer, who maintained a regular correspondence with Marx and Engels, soon formed a national network of Kommunisten Klubs to promote what the New York Times decried as "Red Republicanism." Weydemeyer then allied with the new Republican Party and the presidential campaign of Abraham Lincoln, who would at the start of the Civil War appoint the former Prussian military officer as a technical aide on the staff of General John C. Fremont-the 1856 Republican presidential nominee who became the commander of the army's Department of the West. Later, Lincoln issued Weydemeyer a commission as a colonel of the Forty-First Infantry Missouri Volunteers, charging the German Marxist with the defense of St. Louis. Willich, known as "the Reddest of the Reds," was a leader of the left faction of the German Communist League, which decried Marx's relative caution when it came to revolutionary agitation. As a key commander of the radical Free Corps in the Baden-Palatinate uprising of 1849, Willich chose as his aide-de-camp a young Friedrich Engels. Forced to flee to the United States after the defeat of the uprising, Willich decamped to Cincinnati, where he became editor of the socialist Republikaner newspaper and backed the candidacies of Fremont in 1856 and Lincoln in 1860. At the outset of the Civil War, Willich recruited a regiment of German immigrants and became its first lieutenant, quickly rising to the rank of brigadier general and making a name for himself by having military bands play revolutionary songs such as the "Arbiter [Workers'] Marseillaise"-"A reveille for the new revolution! The new revolution!"

https://isreview.org/issue/79/reading​-​karl-marx-abraham-lincoln
 
2018-08-11 08:06:57 AM  
Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza might want to remember that in the race war that his bestie wants, THAT guy is going to be a valued member of the team, and that Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza is maybe a few shades darker than most of the recruits are going to be comfortable with, and that they DON'T care that he's from India...because no matter what, Dinesh's brand of racist rhetoric is a bit different than theirs. He's still too damn dark, and that means that they won't mind just knocking his teeth out to make that point while he wails that he's "one of the good ones..."
 
2018-08-11 08:14:20 AM  

Weaver95: Ishkur: Trump is effectively an American oligarch.

what happens, I wonder, when everyone in this country finally figures that out?  our Founding Father mythology is not compatible with that sort of reality.


From my experience "our Founding Father mythology" is whatever the right wants it to be, pretty much that the Founding Fathers would have supported whatever nonsense the right is currently pushing, and their supporters lap it up.

Basically, they treat the Founders the same way they treat their god.
 
2018-08-11 08:19:53 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-08-11 08:26:49 AM  

IlGreven: Wow, a rarity: A headline where absolutely everyone is wrong.

Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza isn't a Convicted Felon anymore.
Abe Lincoln was not a conservative in today's sense; though he tried to "conserve" the union. But he was by no means a liberal, either in that day's sense or todays; he was ambivalent about slavery, and was pushed into emancipating Northern slaves as a solidarity movement by abolitionists.
The Civil War was definitely about slavery, but it was not solely about slavery; that was just the biggest thing on the menu over who controlled the states that had been brewing since the Revolution ended.  I personally think the Civil War would still have happened had the US been truly enlightened and banned slavery from the beginning.
And the Democrats of the time were largely slave-owners, thus, yes, racists.


OK....

1. Lincoln was NOT ambivalent about slavery. Anyone who has bothered to read his speeches from the 1850s knows this. He felt slavery was clearly immoral and unjust. He ALSO believed that the federal government had no constitutional right to end slavery in states where he already existed and accepted the notion that it would be difficult to do so and supported the idea of colonizing blacks out of the United States. Even what I just wrote doesn't do justice to the public stances he took on slavery. They were complicated, nuanced, and changed over time. But he was a firm, staunch opponent of slavery on the idealistic level throughout the 1850s.

2. He was not "pushed" into emancipating slaves by abolitionists. Abolitionists did not have the political power to "push" anyone to do anything. Lincoln concluded that slavery had to end as a war goal fairly early in the war and also needed to end throughout the nation, which is why he spent a lot of time in the last two years of the war lobbying politicians from Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, Maryland, and Delaware to voluntarily end slavery. It's why he pushed so hard for the 13th Amendment at the end of the war. His motives were many for this including his strong abhorrence for slavery, but it was also a pretty standard line by the second half of the war that slavery had caused the war, so slavery had to be ended to truly bring the war to a close. It's one reason why even folks who had no problem with slavery began to support its abolition by the end. But, regardless, by mid-1862 Lincoln was a major motive force behind abolition and he appears to have been wholly committed to the policy.

3. The Civil War almost certainly would NOT have happened without slavery. Why would it have? What would it have been over? Some vague notion that the north and south were different? The South seceded b/c they feared the North would abolish a type of property that was, in 1860, worth more than  all the railroads, banks, and factories in the nation combined, produced immense amounts of profit for the South and provided the bedrock institution of southern culture and society. The reasons for the South's secession are not hard to understand. Any other road to secession would require some sort of convoluted logic that would be difficult to follow and rally support behind. People tend to fight wars for concrete reasons not vague ideological notions.

4. The Democrats at the time were NOT largely slaveholders. The party was popular in the North and, obviously, those people were not slaveholders. Now, in the South, because slaveholders dominated EVERYTHING about southern society (remember, slavery was kind of important), Democratic politicians were largely slaveholders, as were Whig politicians because, once again, slavery dominated southern society. But the vast majority of southerners didn't own slaves and the vast majority of Democrats were non-slaveholders. Now, were they racists? Well, duh. So were 99% of northern whites in 1860. What's your point exactly?

You don't know what you're talking about and are speaking from a position of extreme ignorance. Educate yourself!
 
2018-08-11 08:28:43 AM  

eiger: Weaver95: Ishkur: Trump is effectively an American oligarch.

what happens, I wonder, when everyone in this country finally figures that out?  our Founding Father mythology is not compatible with that sort of reality.

From my experience "our Founding Father mythology" is whatever the right wants it to be, pretty much that the Founding Fathers would have supported whatever nonsense the right is currently pushing, and their supporters lap it up.

Basically, they treat the Founders the same way they treat their god.


i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2018-08-11 08:46:24 AM  
eiger:

"But the vast majority of southerners didn't own slaves"

Yes and no, it depended on the state you lived in.  In states like Mississippi and South Carolina, where the economy was almost exclusively based on slave-labor-intensive crops (cotton, rice, indigo, etc.), almost half of all families owned slaves.  The number in other southern states hovered around 25-30%, and then places like Arkansas (where the terrain was generally unsuitable for large plantations), the number drops below 20%.

/Really, Mississippi as a state doesn't exist without the economic incentive of lowland cotton farming.  The swampy Yazoo basin is not really suited for supporting a large population.  That's why slave plantations were worth committing treason over, for the handful of white elites in the South - it was literally the only reason they had money, power, and all the benefits that came with in.
 
2018-08-11 09:16:38 AM  

themindiswatching: berylman: You should see the glowing reviews of his new movie on IMDB...frightening stuff

You do realize how easy it is to buy reviews, right?


The reviews are "user reviews", not critics. The critics hate the film, and there's no need to buy off the users, there's plenty of derpers to praise it, same as they do for "Christain" movies.
 
2018-08-11 09:48:56 AM  
Oh, I thought I recognized the name.

Death of a Nation
 
2018-08-11 09:50:56 AM  

IlGreven: I personally think the Civil War would still have happened had the US been truly enlightened and banned slavery from the beginning.


Even the Revolutionary War was about slavery, Britain was beginning its abolitionist movement and wealthy land/slave holders in America saw the writing on the wall.
 
2018-08-11 10:05:52 AM  

IlGreven: Wow, a rarity: A headline where absolutely everyone is wrong.

Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza isn't a Convicted Felon anymore....


He was convicted.  The pardon only says the government won't treat him as a convicted felon, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to act like he didn't commit crimes.
 
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