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(Seattle Times)   Boeing's 737 production is so backed up that they've been temporarily installing engines on unfinished planes just to fly them to another storage location, then removing the engines and trucking them back   ( seattletimes.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Seattle, production rate, Boeing 737, Boeing, Renton plant, Boeing 787, Renton assembly plant, Renton production crunch  
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1475 clicks; posted to Business » on 09 Aug 2018 at 6:35 PM (11 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



31 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2018-08-09 01:38:20 PM  
Employees at the Renton plant told The Seattle Times that a shortage of experienced workers, following a wave of retirements last year when the company offered buyouts, is contributing to the production issues.

"Perkins, in my office. Now, I know we've been profitable but I hear we have experienced workers being paid top dollar. Now, we can't have that. We need new, younger, cheaper workers. What do you say?"

"I'll bribe them all to take early retirement."

"Brilliant! There is no way this will back fire on us in any way!"
 
2018-08-09 06:55:42 PM  
Not sure I would fly a plane that was "unfinished".

/ I demand at least 2 wings and 1 steering wheel thingy.
 
2018-08-09 07:28:49 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: Employees at the Renton plant told The Seattle Times that a shortage of experienced workers, following a wave of retirements last year when the company offered buyouts, is contributing to the production issues.

"Perkins, in my office. Now, I know we've been profitable but I hear we have experienced workers being paid top dollar. Now, we can't have that. We need new, younger, cheaper workers. What do you say?"

"I'll bribe them all to take early retirement."

"Brilliant! There is no way this will back fire on us in any way!"


Read that as well and realized they did it to themselves.
 
2018-08-09 07:29:05 PM  

Nick Nostril: Not sure I would fly a plane that was "unfinished".

/ I demand at least 2 wings and 1 steering wheel thingy.


No tail?  You're braver than I.
 
2018-08-09 07:29:12 PM  

Nick Nostril: Not sure I would fly a plane that was "unfinished".

/ I demand at least 2 wings and 1 steering wheel thingy.


There's a hell of a lot to a plane in the fuselage behind the cockpit that's unnecessary to flying but absolutely necessary to carrying large numbers of passengers.
 
2018-08-09 07:46:01 PM  

12349876: Nick Nostril: Not sure I would fly a plane that was "unfinished".

/ I demand at least 2 wings and 1 steering wheel thingy.

There's a hell of a lot to a plane in the fuselage behind the cockpit that's unnecessary to flying but absolutely necessary to carrying large numbers of passengers.


It's a short flight too, doesn't even need to be pressurized.
 
2018-08-09 07:46:48 PM  

Null Pointer: Read that as well and realized they did it to themselves.


No, you're taking the entire wrong thing away from the article.

In remarks at a Jefferies Industrials Conference, Smith said that late deliveries of fuselages from Spirit AeroSystems in Wichita, Kan., and jet engines from the U.S./France joint venture CFM International had already reduced the number of 737 deliveries last quarter and would do so again in the next three months.

The rest of the article talks about how Boeing has unfinished planes parked everywhere because of an engine shortage from CFM. And it mentions Spirit AeroSystems isn't delivering fuselages on time.

It's a nice distraction that Boeing employees (presumably union employees) are saying part of the backlog is those employee buyouts, but that doesn't appear to the main subject of the article. It's missing engines that results in unfinished planes parked everywhere.
 
2018-08-09 07:58:19 PM  
There's a walking trail (Cedar River) that runs right through the middle of the Renton airport/737 plant.

Wife and I used to walk that all the time when we lived in the area. Saw lots of interesting stuff, including the 757s they built for the military that serve as Air Force 2.
 
2018-08-09 08:02:36 PM  
Geez, I retire from the company and things go to hell a few months later
 
2018-08-09 08:04:15 PM  
Well, Spirit Aero Systems used to be Boeing. They sold it to their private equity fund Onex. Gyess they got tired of paying those workers too.

"When Onex bought the parts operations in Kansas and Oklahoma in 2005, about 9,500 Boeing employees had to reapply for work at the new company.
The new owners argued that to make it as a company independent of Boeing, costs had to be reined in.
About 1,100 of the former workforce were cut loose and the International Union of Machinists (IAM) union had to agree to a 10 percent pay cut for its members."

Previous poster's point still stands. They did it to themselves.
 
2018-08-09 08:11:39 PM  

Nick Nostril: Not sure I would fly a plane that was "unfinished".

/ I demand at least 2 wings and 1 steering wheel thingy.


Misleading headline. The article says, "...putting engines on some planes that are otherwise complete, just to fly them to Boeing Field and get them out of the way, then taking the engines off and trucking them back to Renton."

They apparently just don't have enough plane storage space at their manufacturing plant.
 
2018-08-09 08:43:09 PM  
My neighbor, who lives 5 minutes from the Everett plant, has been reassigned to the Renton plant. He hates the drive. My response, oh well.....
 
2018-08-09 08:50:18 PM  
It will all ease up when China starts putting tariffs on airplanes in retaliation for our tariffs. Then all those nice contracts that Boeing had will go to Airbus.
 
2018-08-09 09:02:58 PM  

wiseolddude: My neighbor, who lives 5 minutes from the Everett plant, has been reassigned to the Renton plant. He hates the drive. My response, oh well.....


If only some fast method of transport existed.
 
2018-08-09 09:41:57 PM  

wiseolddude: My neighbor, who lives 5 minutes from the Everett plant,


Do you not live 5 minutes from the Everett plant?
 
2018-08-09 09:43:09 PM  
But I was assured in Tesla threads that established manufacturing companies never have problems when they try to scale up production quickly.
 
2018-08-09 09:45:08 PM  
The way aviation had been advancing for 60 years, I bet the mid-60s designers of the 737 could not imagine it would be a mainstay of the industry and the company 50+ years later
 
2018-08-09 09:53:33 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: Employees at the Renton plant told The Seattle Times that a shortage of experienced workers, following a wave of retirements last year when the company offered buyouts, is contributing to the production issues.

"Perkins, in my office. Now, I know we've been profitable but I hear we have experienced workers being paid top dollar. Now, we can't have that. We need new, younger, cheaper workers. What do you say?"

"I'll bribe them all to take early retirement."

"Brilliant! There is no way this will back fire on us in any way!"


I had a contract at Pacbell once. They had offered early retirement and all eight UNIX admins took it! Five new contractors in two weeks. The only saving grace, there was a contractor who stayed on and had some idea what was happening. He also knew the important passwords/

Did I mention the manager also left?
 
2018-08-09 09:58:00 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
Guys. Your engine workflow is too much.
 
2018-08-09 10:06:36 PM  
Incomplete plane = no coffee machine
 
2018-08-09 10:33:39 PM  

mrmopar5287: Null Pointer: Read that as well and realized they did it to themselves.

No, you're taking the entire wrong thing away from the article.

In remarks at a Jefferies Industrials Conference, Smith said that late deliveries of fuselages from Spirit AeroSystems in Wichita, Kan., and jet engines from the U.S./France joint venture CFM International had already reduced the number of 737 deliveries last quarter and would do so again in the next three months.

The rest of the article talks about how Boeing has unfinished planes parked everywhere because of an engine shortage from CFM. And it mentions Spirit AeroSystems isn't delivering fuselages on time.

It's a nice distraction that Boeing employees (presumably union employees) are saying part of the backlog is those employee buyouts, but that doesn't appear to the main subject of the article. It's missing engines that results in unfinished planes parked everywhere.


What are you saying? That employees (presumably union employees) are against the company offering money if you voluntarily leave?  I'd retire tomorrow if the boss offered me enough, and that number goes down every year closer to my imagined target date we get. Why would the guys, union or not, be biatching? "Damn the company for offering Joe a bunch of cash and extra years of insurance coverage to start collecting his pension and go fishing? Just ain't right the way they treated him."

I'm sure they do indeed have supply chain issues. Most significantly the engines - it's hard to have more otherwise flyable planes than you can store if you're short on fuselages.  But i also find it completely reasonable to think that Boeing could have made a short-sighted decision to trim costs by thowing money at senior employees so they leave. Why would the employees be bitter that the company offered a deal?
 
2018-08-09 10:56:24 PM  

jaytkay: The way aviation had been advancing for 60 years, I bet the mid-60s designers of the 737 could not imagine it would be a mainstay of the industry and the company 50+ years later


They didn't even imagine switching to wider engines a decade later. In order get the air intake width Boeing wanted, the new engines had to be redesigned so that they'd have enough ground clearance. Their various components were all put on the sides, rather than the bottom, resulting in a "hamster pouch" shape:

imgproc.airliners.netView Full Size


With the newest model, the 737 MAX, Boeing finally decided to lengthen the landing gear and redesign the undercarriage to house it.
 
2018-08-09 10:58:52 PM  
Er, decade and a half later.
 
2018-08-10 12:25:44 AM  
Boeing's one of those formerly great engineering companies that was co-opted by its bean counters.  The 787 outsourcing added years of time and billions of $ to its development schedule.

HP is another.
 
2018-08-10 12:47:40 AM  

robbrie: Boeing's one of those formerly great engineering companies that was co-opted by its bean counters.  The 787 outsourcing added years of time and billions of $ to its development schedule.

HP is another.


And, according to my friend who's been there almost 20 years now, IBM too. Bean counters, shareholders, and Excel is the unholy triumvirate of fail.
 
2018-08-10 10:15:50 AM  

WelldeadLink: wiseolddude: My neighbor, who lives 5 minutes from the Everett plant, has been reassigned to the Renton plant. He hates the drive. My response, oh well.....

If only some fast method of transport existed.


Hyperloop?
 
2018-08-10 11:11:06 AM  
Its almost as if forcing workers out and not backfilling in order to show a backlog of work to push stock prices higher results in work not getting done.
 
2018-08-10 11:54:47 AM  

Slypork: WelldeadLink: wiseolddude: My neighbor, who lives 5 minutes from the Everett plant, has been reassigned to the Renton plant. He hates the drive. My response, oh well.....

If only some fast method of transport existed.

Hyperloop?


He said "existed" not "vaporware". A single run at 1/3 the promised speed over a quarter mile track is not impressive.
 
2018-08-10 03:04:04 PM  

lizyrd: mrmopar5287: Null Pointer: Read that as well and realized they did it to themselves.

No, you're taking the entire wrong thing away from the article.

In remarks at a Jefferies Industrials Conference, Smith said that late deliveries of fuselages from Spirit AeroSystems in Wichita, Kan., and jet engines from the U.S./France joint venture CFM International had already reduced the number of 737 deliveries last quarter and would do so again in the next three months.

The rest of the article talks about how Boeing has unfinished planes parked everywhere because of an engine shortage from CFM. And it mentions Spirit AeroSystems isn't delivering fuselages on time.

It's a nice distraction that Boeing employees (presumably union employees) are saying part of the backlog is those employee buyouts, but that doesn't appear to the main subject of the article. It's missing engines that results in unfinished planes parked everywhere.

What are you saying? That employees (presumably union employees) are against the company offering money if you voluntarily leave?  I'd retire tomorrow if the boss offered me enough, and that number goes down every year closer to my imagined target date we get. Why would the guys, union or not, be biatching? "Damn the company for offering Joe a bunch of cash and extra years of insurance coverage to start collecting his pension and go fishing? Just ain't right the way they treated him."

I'm sure they do indeed have supply chain issues. Most significantly the engines - it's hard to have more otherwise flyable planes than you can store if you're short on fuselages.  But i also find it completely reasonable to think that Boeing could have made a short-sighted decision to trim costs by thowing money at senior employees so they leave. Why would the employees be bitter that the company offered a deal?


Absolutely nothing against production workers. Nothing wrong with any of them retiring early if they get a buyout.

What I'm saying is the article opens with Boeing saying they are short fuselage and engine deliveries. Then the workers have a statement saying retired production workers is responsible.

If planes are parked everywhere waiting for engines I wouldn't say it's production workers retiring causing the issue.
 
2018-08-10 04:48:15 PM  
Their various components were all put on the sides, rather than the bottom, resulting in a "hamster pouch" shape:

[imgproc.airliners.net image 300x227]

With the newest model, the 737 MAX, Boeing finally decided to lengthen the landing gear and redesign the undercarriage to house it.


Your picture is of a 737NG (and an old one at that - notice the eyebrow windows over the cockpit) with its characteristic "flat-bottomed" engine profile...........definitely not a MAX, which does have longer gear to allow for a fully round intake design.
 
2018-08-10 05:26:29 PM  

waffledonkey: Their various components were all put on the sides, rather than the bottom, resulting in a "hamster pouch" shape:

[imgproc.airliners.net image 300x227]

With the newest model, the 737 MAX, Boeing finally decided to lengthen the landing gear and redesign the undercarriage to house it.

Your picture is of a 737NG (and an old one at that - notice the eyebrow windows over the cockpit) with its characteristic "flat-bottomed" engine profile...........definitely not a MAX, which does have longer gear to allow for a fully round intake design.


Yes, that's what I was trying to imply.
 
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