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(Guardian)   Trump's wildlife board claims trophy hunting as good for animals. Also claims 2+2 = 5, black is white, and Duke doesn't suck   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Hunting, trophy hunting, big-game trophy hunting, Endangered Species Act, trophy hunting conservation, trophy hunting ban, trophy hunting promotes, sport hunting  
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1090 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Jul 2018 at 9:58 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2018-07-17 10:58:05 PM  
There's a massive difference between trophy hunting (killing the biggest and/or most desireable animal in the herd and/or the Big Five, etc.) so someone has bragging rights; sport hunting (game killing based on wildlife limits set for the region, regulated by licenses, and with pre-set dates, numbers, and genders of animals); and culling (scientifically removing a specific number of both males and females in a population which is too large due to lack of predation, excess breeding, overabundance of food, or other artificial conditions that have increased the population beyond the carrying capacity of the land).

Both sport hunting and culling can be highly beneficial to a population, or at a minimum not harmful, since they're designed to take out limited numbers, over a restricted period of time, and are usually done either by people who know what they're doing (culls) or who at least pretend to have laws and regulations in mind (hunters). Hunting organizations like Ducks Unlimited and even the Audubon Society have been good for the bird populations because they recognized early that no restrictions = no birds = no hunting really quick.

Trophy hunting, letting hunters go out either in overpriced canned hunts or in guided "hunts" to take out old or ill animals, benefit nobody but whoever pockets the money; they aren't regulated by anyone; and pretending that they somehow benefit conservation efforts is self-serving bullshiat.
 
2018-07-17 10:58:09 PM  

BuckTurgidson: iheartscotch: Legal trophy hunting is good. Why? It kills old males so, say a pride of lions gets new blood. It kills older animals; thereby increasing the health of the heard. And, responsibly tagged and licensed, it provides revenue. It's, literally, why many nearly extinct species came back.

So you are a wildlife conservation biologist? And can speak knowledgeably about every target species in every biome?

/Christ, what an asshole.


I am a life long sportsman, I am member of organizations such as Ducks Unlimited and I am an Eagle Scout. I support sustainable hunting, fishing and leaving no trace. I also support tasty tasty deer murder. They might be cute, but they'd F u in the A if they could. Damn fuzzy bastards are all over the place.

/ at least, they are here
 
2018-07-17 10:59:27 PM  
Every single farking hour, there's a new horror enacted by the corrupt and treasonous trump/GOP powers that be
.
It is exhausting trying to keep up with all of the corruption within the cabinet. So many horrors that they're enacting are being overlooked. This is just one of many. I'm scared that so many will give up and just roll over. I'm trying to do my best to not overwhelm myself. I'm keeping my head on a swivel and my neck hurts. fark THE GOP!! Stop tweeting your "outrage" and do something!

I feel helpless in that all of my congresscritters are against this administration's policies. I guess I could just call them and say "keep doing what you're doing and Thank you".
 
2018-07-17 11:02:23 PM  

iheartscotch: BuckTurgidson: iheartscotch: Legal trophy hunting is good. Why? It kills old males so, say a pride of lions gets new blood. It kills older animals; thereby increasing the health of the heard. And, responsibly tagged and licensed, it provides revenue. It's, literally, why many nearly extinct species came back.

So you are a wildlife conservation biologist? And can speak knowledgeably about every target species in every biome?

/Christ, what an asshole.

I am a life long sportsman, I am member of organizations such as Ducks Unlimited and I am an Eagle Scout. I support sustainable hunting, fishing and leaving no trace. I also support tasty tasty deer murder. They might be cute, but they'd F u in the A if they could. Damn fuzzy bastards are all over the place.

/ at least, they are here


Da fuq does any of that have to do with the price of trophy kills in Africa?
 
2018-07-17 11:15:03 PM  

Dimensio: EvilEgg: He's not wrong, he's just an asshole.

People who pay big bucks to trophy hunt support wildlife conservation. But it typically doesn't take a lot of skill on the part of the "hunter"

Trophy hunting where the animals are carefully managed so that the hunting targets are past a proper breeding age and where the proceeds from the admission/administration fees are used toward wildlife conservation can be overall helpful to the population.

However, knowing this administration I would be entirely unsurprised if the basic concept of "trophy hunting helps animal populations" is used to strip any and all hunting regulations away without doing anything to ensure that the above criteria are ever met.


"They kept calling it murder when I did it"

Richard B Riddick
 
2018-07-17 11:22:46 PM  

here to help: ColonelCathcart: Actually trophy hunting can be good for the health of the animals if:

1) The price to hunt is preposterously high
2) The animal killed is an older bull male who isn't good for making babies anymore (no lady killing, but good news is that most trophies are male and older)
3) The money goes to the tribe/locale where the hunt happens
4) Money goes to breeding the animal further

Like this story:

https://www.cnn.com/2015/05/19/africa/​namibia-rhino-hunt/index.html

As I said... use a freaking camera and you can get the same damned experience. Otherwise you are the type of asshole that just wants to destroy something rare and beautiful.


https://libertv.com/videos_list/rhino​-​war-conservation-hunting/

This is worth a watch/listen. Conservation hunting does not equal trophy hunting. Also, "use a freaking camera and you can get the same damned experience"will not support anti-poaching efforts nor will it keep a herd healthy. Educate yourself, son.
 
2018-07-17 11:25:13 PM  

Buck Dancer: Educate yourself, son.


lol...

Thanks, "dad".
 
2018-07-17 11:26:29 PM  

jso2897: Hunting can be the best way to control a population - usually, not.
But there will always be some asshole who likes to kill shiat telling you it's the best way - even when it demonstrably isn't.
Weak, sexually deprived, tiny-dicked men with guns will tell a lot of f**king lies if it will get them legal permission to slaughter something.
Be very suspicious when they start with the ostensibly utilitarian arguments - they are often flat out lies, and bullshiat.
They mostly are just perverts who want to shoot things for pleasure.


Do you eat meat? If so, you are a "tiny-dicked" man who lets others do the killing for you.
 
2018-07-17 11:28:33 PM  
Wow you conservation hunters are such heroes.
 
2018-07-17 11:29:45 PM  

Buck Dancer: Conservation hunting

... is not a thing.

libertv.com (lol):

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-07-17 11:39:11 PM  

BuckTurgidson: Buck Dancer: Conservation hunting ... is not a thing.

libertv.com (lol):

[img.fark.net image 850x387]


So, is it a bad thing Tactical Response went to South Africa to train people fighting poachers? Are you one of those "people who own guns = bad?" I suggest opening your tribal mind a bit.
 
2018-07-17 11:41:49 PM  

here to help: PS: I do not consider regulated hunting of animal populations that are abundant for food or to keep herds/flocks under control so they don't damage their environment/overall health/other species as a bad thing. Getting recreational hunters to do the job AND generating revenues via licensing is a great system.

Dickheads who drop deer and the like just to get a head to put on their wall while leaving the carcass in the woods... well you aren't AS bad as the "but I WANT to kill an elephant... waaaaahhhh!!!!" assholes... but you're still an asshole.


Pulling the head and leaving the body is wanton waste in most states, and is usually punishable by fine or loss of hunting privileges.
 
2018-07-17 11:42:18 PM  

BuckTurgidson: Buck Dancer: Conservation hunting ... is not a thing.

libertv.com (lol):

[img.fark.net image 850x387]


Mind you, I'm a pudgy pale older guy myself.

And I've always had an affectionate tolerance for the SCA kids I used to see in the park on Sundays, dressed as knights and pretending to batter each other with staves.
 
2018-07-17 11:45:33 PM  

BuckTurgidson: BuckTurgidson: Buck Dancer: Conservation hunting ... is not a thing.

libertv.com (lol):

[img.fark.net image 850x387]

Mind you, I'm a pudgy pale older guy myself.

And I've always had an affectionate tolerance for the SCA kids I used to see in the park on Sundays, dressed as knights and pretending to batter each other with staves.


SCA? I always refer to them as LARPs (Live Action Role Players). Have you seen the documentary "Darkon?" I highly recommend it.
 
2018-07-17 11:47:07 PM  

here to help: Buck Dancer: Educate yourself, son.

lol...

Thanks, "dad".


Who you calling daddy;-)?
 
2018-07-17 11:50:06 PM  

BuckTurgidson: libertv.com (lol):


I did not click the link but that is just about what I expected to see if I had.

Buck Dancer: So, is it a bad thing Tactical Response went to South Africa to train people fighting poachers?


Ya, I'm sure they do not have any selfish ulterior motives... if that is even true.

There are plenty of orgs out there fighting poaching in Africa and elsewhere that don't insist on killing the EXACT SAME ANIMALS the poachers are.

Honestly all those dudes look like the type that are just peeved the desperate, starving local poachers are getting to kill all that sweet sweet exotic meat instead of them.
 
2018-07-17 11:53:05 PM  

Mrbogey: BlazeTrailer: Their optimal targets are those that are thriving despite over-competition. These are the animals that should be passing on genes.

Their optimal targets are males bigger than average. Which usually means the alpha. Which usually means the older of the males. Older males hit a point where the hold little to no value to a pack and sometimes are a detriment. If we allow nature to take its course, a young male will fight the alpha and possibly both may die or injuries which hurt the pack may occur.

Take giraffes and their practice of "necking". It's better to kill the bigger older bull and let the toughest of the young males take over without risking a neck break.


I mean....fine in theory. But the species got there through millions of years of letting that "strong" buck get a broken neck. We probably know better though.
 
2018-07-17 11:53:18 PM  

stoli n coke: omg bbq: Libby lib here.

I think that hunting CAN be good if properly managed.  It can bring awareness to conservation and the environment.
I'm not saying dick-nose swine who go kill lions for "sport" and other endangered and dissapearing animals. If you want to go kill one of the eleventy billion mule deer? Or one of the eight dozen white tails who eat my farking dahlias each year??? feel free.

I'm not interested in killing bambie but I don't see it much different than sport fishing. The right animals (deer, ducks, your neighbor's asshole little white dog), the right time of the year, and the right amount is fine. Don't go killing endangered stuff in some banana republic because your money makes it okay and we are cool.

Hell, in Texas, you can hunt wild hogs all year round (they're a nuisance). Knock yourself out.


We do once a year. We got so much meat last year, I donated all of this year's hunt to local churches and feed the hungry programs. Kind of strange a lot of places and programs cannot accept wild game, but we found a few. I'm trying to empty out my freezer by the end of this year just so I can get through all this pork, bear, pheasant, and venison I have.

/yes, bear is good.
//the Mrs. is a Terminator when it comes to killing hogs.
 
2018-07-17 11:54:00 PM  

CthulhuCalling: Pulling the head and leaving the body is wanton waste in most states, and is usually punishable by fine or loss of hunting privileges.


As it should be... but in more than just "most" states. I'm sure someone somewhere in the current admin and/or legislature are fighting hard to make such laws "unconstimtutionamal" at the fed level though.

Wango Tango, yo!
 
2018-07-17 11:54:32 PM  

here to help: BuckTurgidson: libertv.com (lol):

I did not click the link but that is just about what I expected to see if I had.

Buck Dancer: So, is it a bad thing Tactical Response went to South Africa to train people fighting poachers?

Ya, I'm sure they do not have any selfish ulterior motives... if that is even true.

There are plenty of orgs out there fighting poaching in Africa and elsewhere that don't insist on killing the EXACT SAME ANIMALS the poachers are.

Honestly all those dudes look like the type that are just peeved the desperate, starving local poachers are getting to kill all that sweet sweet exotic meat instead of them.


So, you are just going to stay ignorant by not watching/listening to a perceived view you disagree with? I somewhat feel sorry for you.
 
2018-07-17 11:55:30 PM  
Ted Nugent.

The derpiest prey of all.
 
2018-07-17 11:55:44 PM  
Hunting can be a conservation tool, especially when the normal predators in a given area have been killed off or are at very low numbers.    Trophy Hunting is not as the hunters target the alpha animals, the very ones who you want to keep around so they can breed the next generation.

Yes the money trophy hunters pay has helped fight poaching but its basically robbing Peter ( taking the best of a species breeding population i  to pay Paul (  fund to pay for efforts to fight poachers. ).
 
2018-07-17 11:55:44 PM  

BlazeTrailer: Mrbogey: BlazeTrailer: Their optimal targets are those that are thriving despite over-competition. These are the animals that should be passing on genes.

Their optimal targets are males bigger than average. Which usually means the alpha. Which usually means the older of the males. Older males hit a point where the hold little to no value to a pack and sometimes are a detriment. If we allow nature to take its course, a young male will fight the alpha and possibly both may die or injuries which hurt the pack may occur.

Take giraffes and their practice of "necking". It's better to kill the bigger older bull and let the toughest of the young males take over without risking a neck break.

I mean....fine in theory. But the species got there through millions of years of letting that "strong" buck get a broken neck. We probably know better though.


Humans were not around "millions of years" ago.
 
2018-07-18 12:00:22 AM  

Buck Dancer: So, you are just going to stay ignorant by not watching/listening to a perceived view you disagree with? I somewhat feel sorry for you.


So you are just going to assume that I came out of mumzies vagina yesterday and haven't had years to read and digest info on the subject thus formulating an opinion like a critically thinking adult?

C'mon, Bucky. You ain't dealing with an amateur.

Up yer game. "son".

;-)
 
2018-07-18 12:01:06 AM  

here to help: CthulhuCalling: Pulling the head and leaving the body is wanton waste in most states, and is usually punishable by fine or loss of hunting privileges.

As it should be... but in more than just "most" states. I'm sure someone somewhere in the current admin and/or legislature are fighting hard to make such laws "unconstimtutionamal" at the fed level though.

Wango Tango, yo!


Game enforcement is handled at the state level.
 
2018-07-18 12:01:58 AM  

here to help: BuckTurgidson: libertv.com (lol):

I did not click the link but that is just about what I expected to see if I had.

Buck Dancer: So, is it a bad thing Tactical Response went to South Africa to train people fighting poachers?

Ya, I'm sure they do not have any selfish ulterior motives... if that is even true.

There are plenty of orgs out there fighting poaching in Africa and elsewhere that don't insist on killing the EXACT SAME ANIMALS the poachers are.

Honestly all those dudes look like the type that are just peeved the desperate, starving local poachers are getting to kill all that sweet sweet exotic meat instead of them.


Those dudes, well, yes it's exactly that.

Trump? Pure stigginit to make those sad sacks cheer him.

/Been that way among us humans since God put us here 6000 years ago.
 
2018-07-18 12:02:41 AM  

CthulhuCalling: stoli n coke: omg bbq: Libby lib here.

I think that hunting CAN be good if properly managed.  It can bring awareness to conservation and the environment.
I'm not saying dick-nose swine who go kill lions for "sport" and other endangered and dissapearing animals. If you want to go kill one of the eleventy billion mule deer? Or one of the eight dozen white tails who eat my farking dahlias each year??? feel free.

I'm not interested in killing bambie but I don't see it much different than sport fishing. The right animals (deer, ducks, your neighbor's asshole little white dog), the right time of the year, and the right amount is fine. Don't go killing endangered stuff in some banana republic because your money makes it okay and we are cool.

Hell, in Texas, you can hunt wild hogs all year round (they're a nuisance). Knock yourself out.

We do once a year. We got so much meat last year, I donated all of this year's hunt to local churches and feed the hungry programs. Kind of strange a lot of places and programs cannot accept wild game, but we found a few. I'm trying to empty out my freezer by the end of this year just so I can get through all this pork, bear, pheasant, and venison I have.

/yes, bear is good.
//the Mrs. is a Terminator when it comes to killing hogs.


Its been several years since I last tasted pheasant, i'm jealous. I'll pay for postage + money for your time if you want to ship me some:-) I've never eaten bear, but I've heard its delicious. I've never been good at cooking/baking/grilling duck.
 
2018-07-18 12:04:21 AM  

CthulhuCalling: Game enforcement is handled at the state level.


That wasn't really my point but whatevs.
 
2018-07-18 12:04:28 AM  

here to help: Buck Dancer: So, you are just going to stay ignorant by not watching/listening to a perceived view you disagree with? I somewhat feel sorry for you.

So you are just going to assume that I came out of mumzies vagina yesterday and haven't had years to read and digest info on the subject thus formulating an opinion like a critically thinking adult?

C'mon, Bucky. You ain't dealing with an amateur.

Up yer game. "son".

;-)


ditto, lad.
 
2018-07-18 12:07:47 AM  

here to help: CthulhuCalling: Game enforcement is handled at the state level.

That wasn't really my point but whatevs.

I'm sure someone somewhere in the current admin and/or legislature are fighting hard to make such laws "unconstimtutionamal" at the fed level though.

 
2018-07-18 12:08:36 AM  

BuckTurgidson: Those dudes, well, yes it's exactly that.

Trump? Pure stigginit to make those sad sacks cheer him.

/Been that way among us humans since God put us here 6000 years ago.



My beer goggles confused me for a moment.

I think I'll dub thee "The Good Buck".

Let the hunt begin!
 
2018-07-18 12:13:57 AM  

CthulhuCalling: here to help: CthulhuCalling: Game enforcement is handled at the state level.

That wasn't really my point but whatevs.

I'm sure someone somewhere in the current admin and/or legislature are fighting hard to make such laws "unconstimtutionamal" at the fed level though.


OMG... you are smarter than this but fine... I'll spell it out for you.

The intent of my comment was to semi sarcastically (but not really) imply that now that the party of the NRA has a stranglehold at the fed level that they'll try to open the floodgates via fed law to allow unrestricted (or irresponsible) hunting laws in ALL states... for dum dum votes... and a side helping of stigginit to the libs.

Capicheka?

Ya... you capicheka now.
 
2018-07-18 12:23:05 AM  
I'm glad this is the thread where people on the left rip each other apart for not falling directly in line with our own individual purity tests.
 
2018-07-18 12:30:21 AM  

omg bbq: I'm glad this is the thread where people on the left rip each other apart for not falling directly in line with our own individual purity tests.


That's what you are taking away from this thread?

Weird.
 
2018-07-18 12:42:17 AM  

here to help: omg bbq: I'm glad this is the thread where people on the left rip each other apart for not falling directly in line with our own individual purity tests.

That's what you are taking away from this thread?

Weird.


Not the article. From the thread heck yes, or am I reading a different language?

Weird.
 
2018-07-18 12:44:40 AM  

Buck Dancer: jso2897: Hunting can be the best way to control a population - usually, not.
But there will always be some asshole who likes to kill shiat telling you it's the best way - even when it demonstrably isn't.
Weak, sexually deprived, tiny-dicked men with guns will tell a lot of f**king lies if it will get them legal permission to slaughter something.
Be very suspicious when they start with the ostensibly utilitarian arguments - they are often flat out lies, and bullshiat.
They mostly are just perverts who want to shoot things for pleasure.

Do you eat meat? If so, you are a "tiny-dicked" man who lets others do the killing for you.


I've done plenty of "meat" hunting, and dressed and eaten my own kill - for food.
I don't kill for pleasure.
Can't be forced to respect those who do, no matter how bullying and tough you talk - I have a gun too.
 
2018-07-18 12:49:35 AM  

omg bbq: Not the article. From the thread heck yes, or am I reading a different language?

Weird.



Please show me where in this thread leftists are ripping each other apart?

I see responsible hunters and environmentally minded people ripping on zealots and propagandists.

Are you just trying to self victimize or sumthin'?

If it's worth anything I was going to partially agree with an earlier post you made but the thread moved on.
 
2018-07-18 1:18:26 AM  

here to help: omg bbq: Not the article. From the thread heck yes, or am I reading a different language?

Weird.


Please show me where in this thread leftists are ripping each other apart?

I see responsible hunters and environmentally minded people ripping on zealots and propagandists.

Are you just trying to self victimize or sumthin'?

If it's worth anything I was going to partially agree with an earlier post you made but the thread moved on.


Maybe I see it a different way.
Let's move on.

Thanks for almost agreeing with me. I almost felt an upwelling of appreciation.
 
2018-07-18 1:30:42 AM  

omg bbq: Thanks for almost agreeing with me. I almost felt an upwelling of appreciation.


hth
 
2018-07-18 1:35:36 AM  

jso2897: Buck Dancer: jso2897: Hunting can be the best way to control a population - usually, not.
But there will always be some asshole who likes to kill shiat telling you it's the best way - even when it demonstrably isn't.
Weak, sexually deprived, tiny-dicked men with guns will tell a lot of f**king lies if it will get them legal permission to slaughter something.
Be very suspicious when they start with the ostensibly utilitarian arguments - they are often flat out lies, and bullshiat.
They mostly are just perverts who want to shoot things for pleasure.

Do you eat meat? If so, you are a "tiny-dicked" man who lets others do the killing for you.

I've done plenty of "meat" hunting, and dressed and eaten my own kill - for food.
I don't kill for pleasure.
Can't be forced to respect those who do, no matter how bullying and tough you talk - I have a gun too.


Huh?
 
2018-07-18 10:55:19 AM  

here to help: ColonelCathcart: Actually trophy hunting can be good for the health of the animals if:

1) The price to hunt is preposterously high
2) The animal killed is an older bull male who isn't good for making babies anymore (no lady killing, but good news is that most trophies are male and older)
3) The money goes to the tribe/locale where the hunt happens
4) Money goes to breeding the animal further

Like this story:

https://www.cnn.com/2015/05/19/africa/​namibia-rhino-hunt/index.html

As I said... use a freaking camera and you can get the same damned experience. Otherwise you are the type of asshole that just wants to destroy something rare and beautiful.


My point is that killing an old male who is killing young healthy males is good for the species. Paying through the nose is good too.

Why do you hate actual conservation?
 
2018-07-18 1:30:17 PM  

ColonelCathcart: here to help: ColonelCathcart: Actually trophy hunting can be good for the health of the animals if:

1) The price to hunt is preposterously high
2) The animal killed is an older bull male who isn't good for making babies anymore (no lady killing, but good news is that most trophies are male and older)
3) The money goes to the tribe/locale where the hunt happens
4) Money goes to breeding the animal further

Like this story:

https://www.cnn.com/2015/05/19/africa/​namibia-rhino-hunt/index.html

As I said... use a freaking camera and you can get the same damned experience. Otherwise you are the type of asshole that just wants to destroy something rare and beautiful.

My point is that killing an old male who is killing young healthy males is good for the species. Paying through the nose is good too.

Why do you hate actual conservation?


Because those people don't give a shiat about conservation. And posing with dead animals is a huge red flag that the person you're looking at is a sociopath.
 
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