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(Bitcoinist)   Big Banks at it again trying to convince us that fake money is fake so that they can hoard and control all of their own preferred fake money   ( bitcoinist.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Money, digital currency, digital currency regulation, digitalization Aleksi Grym, Finnish central bank, different regulatory treatment, educator Andreas Antonopoulos, Federal Reserve System  
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1048 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Jul 2018 at 12:51 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-07-12 09:02:26 PM  
The Bank of Finland (BoF) has released a 133-page paper arguing the concept of digital currency is an "illusion."

It's not a illusion; it has actual value to some people--frequently awful people--which makes it real. Because it's an unregulatable market, however, it's largely dangerous, useless, exploitable, arbitrarily manipulable, wasteful, and ultimately inherently incompatible with civilized society.
 
2018-07-13 12:58:11 AM  

koder: The Bank of Finland (BoF) has released a 133-page paper arguing the concept of digital currency is an "illusion."

It's not a illusion; it has actual value to some people--frequently awful people--which makes it real. Because it's an unregulatable market, however, it's largely dangerous, useless, exploitable, arbitrarily manipulable, wasteful, and ultimately inherently incompatible with civilized society.


Only gold has value.
 
2018-07-13 01:24:51 AM  

koder: The Bank of Finland (BoF) has released a 133-page paper arguing the concept of digital currency is an "illusion."

It's not a illusion; it has actual value to some people--frequently awful people--which makes it real. Because it's an unregulatable market, however, it's largely dangerous, useless, exploitable, arbitrarily manipulable, wasteful, and ultimately inherently incompatible with civilized society.


It's really only a matter of time before trustless distributed systems take hold in "civilized" society. Half the majors on the planet are currently exploring or using blockchains on trusted networks cuz they love the way it resolves consensus.

Yeah, it'll be a volatile market but "currency" only implies that something has value and liquidity. It's still the 28.8k days. As tech and specifically mobile/IoT devices iterate in processing power, storage, and high speed 5g and newer mesh wifi protocols are rolled out, and processes are smoothed over and best practices emerge, you'd have to be pretty stupid to not see that there is at least "value" there. Whether you think it's "legitimate" or not is irrelevant.
 
2018-07-13 01:32:26 AM  
Big Pharma is at it again, telling us that vaccines are the only way to prevent disease.

WeedBong420: It's really only a matter of time before trustless distributed systems take hold in "civilized" society. Half the majors on the planet are currently exploring or using blockchains on trusted networks cuz they love the way it resolves consensus.


Username checks out.
 
2018-07-13 02:29:20 AM  

mcreadyblue: koder: The Bank of Finland (BoF) has released a 133-page paper arguing the concept of digital currency is an "illusion."

It's not a illusion; it has actual value to some people--frequently awful people--which makes it real. Because it's an unregulatable market, however, it's largely dangerous, useless, exploitable, arbitrarily manipulable, wasteful, and ultimately inherently incompatible with civilized society.

Only gold has value.


In any sane economic system we'd be on a food-based currency.

/It would make diets easier to keep of
//I'll give you 2500 calories for that bag of 3500 calory m&ms
 
2018-07-13 05:12:13 AM  

mcreadyblue: Only gold has value.

I never met anyone before who trades gold for all their food, transportation, shelter, clothing and healthcare.
That sounds interesting. Tell us more.
 
2018-07-13 06:02:59 AM  
The more it is acknowledged, the more value it has
 
2018-07-13 06:15:49 AM  
I'm trying and failing to understand the preoccupation with digital "coin."

I hate to be all "dude, wait, what...?" but I remain unconvinced.

I sniffed the panties and the panties smelled like a scam. At least to these nostrils.
 
2018-07-13 06:23:02 AM  
Digital currency is a nothingburger which is why I'm going to write 133 pages about it to show how little we need to care!
 
2018-07-13 06:29:30 AM  

Lady J: Digital currency is a nothingburger which is why I'm going to write 133 pages about it to show how little we need to care!


This is neither here nor there, but I think I may like you, Lady J. Thinks can be deceived, of course, but I trust our common language and common interests intercept one another (maybe).
 
2018-07-13 06:31:41 AM  

casual disregard: Lady J: Digital currency is a nothingburger which is why I'm going to write 133 pages about it to show how little we need to care!

This is neither here nor there, but I think I may like you, Lady J. Thinks can be deceived, of course, but I trust our common language and common interests intercept one another (maybe).


Careful now.

/down with this sort of thing
 
2018-07-13 06:40:48 AM  

Lady J: casual disregard: Lady J: Digital currency is a nothingburger which is why I'm going to write 133 pages about it to show how little we need to care!

This is neither here nor there, but I think I may like you, Lady J. Thinks can be deceived, of course, but I trust our common language and common interests intercept one another (maybe).

Careful now.

/down with this sort of thing


I must depart for work soon. I will think of you and French poetry. I deign to think you are the better of the two.

/part of me is viking, i take no care or worry
 
2018-07-13 08:10:59 AM  
Shared illusions always work if everyone shares them.
 
2018-07-13 08:14:40 AM  

koder: The Bank of Finland (BoF) has released a 133-page paper arguing the concept of digital currency is an "illusion."

It's not a illusion; it has actual value to some people--frequently awful people--which makes it real. Because it's an unregulatable market, however, it's largely dangerous, useless, exploitable, arbitrarily manipulable, wasteful, and ultimately inherently incompatible with civilized society.


Plus, at least for Bitcoin, the energy it takes to compute the blockchain far outweighs the value of the computation; and the fact that there are a finite number of bitcoins means the currency is inherently deflationary, and can be subject to hoarding.
 
2018-07-13 09:15:34 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: koder: The Bank of Finland (BoF) has released a 133-page paper arguing the concept of digital currency is an "illusion."

It's not a illusion; it has actual value to some people--frequently awful people--which makes it real. Because it's an unregulatable market, however, it's largely dangerous, useless, exploitable, arbitrarily manipulable, wasteful, and ultimately inherently incompatible with civilized society.

Plus, at least for Bitcoin, the energy it takes to compute the blockchain far outweighs the value of the computation; and the fact that there are a finite number of bitcoins means the currency is inherently deflationary, and can be subject to hoarding.


And when those hoarded coins are lost, they are lost forever. Satoshi Nakamoto has been sitting on ~5% of total supply since the founding of the protocol.
 
2018-07-13 09:49:46 AM  
All currency is fake. Even gold is fake. The only value it has is whatever we've given it. And for you libertarian types that love crypto for not having the government involved, guess what. The future of crypto will be stable government backed crypto cause no sane business enterprise will want to accept a unit of currency that can buy a Ferrari one day, then buy a loaf of bread the next day, then buy the Hope diamond 1 week later, then be the value of a paperclip by next year. Businesses and investors like stable currencies.
 
2018-07-13 12:28:15 PM  

casual disregard: I'm trying and failing to understand the preoccupation with digital "coin."

I hate to be all "dude, wait, what...?" but I remain unconvinced.

I sniffed the panties and the panties smelled like a scam. At least to these nostrils.


Imagine you provide illegal services to people and want to get paid.  Cryptocurrency is your best and safest bet.  That's really the most practical actual usecase and makes a ton of sense for the people involved.  For everyone else, outside of a few really particular cases (like you get paid in on currency but want your savings to be in another, like when an American works overseas and gets paid in Euro) where it could theoretically better (but in practice still isn't) there isn't much use, unless you buy into the whole 'Cannot trust governments to regulate currency' argument.

For a regular person ordering something off Amazon, a credit card is still better for many reasons.

But if you want to get some weed or kiddie porn - you don't want to use that credit card....
 
2018-07-13 12:32:58 PM  
There is only one currency: Time.
Someone offers to give you something you can exchange for things that you want and are willing to trade a piece of your life for - with possible donations of blood and sweat negotiable.  That's it.  Everything in between is nothing but symbols invented by clever johnnies that learned early-on that they could avoid giving up portion of their life by standing on the backs of others.  Middlemen - tax collectors, advertising agents, and public telephone sanitizers - these are them what benefits from "currency".

I know its more complicated than that.  Don't care.  I'm working on some Friday bitterness to have an excuse to booze-off some steam later.   Yah, that's it.
 
2018-07-13 02:27:26 PM  

mcreadyblue: Only gold has value.


JP Morgan: Money is gold, and nothing else.

Although IrishBlunder's idea of Time is a good one, too. And it's a finite resource, too.
 
2018-07-13 03:03:51 PM  

WeedBong420: koder: The Bank of Finland (BoF) has released a 133-page paper arguing the concept of digital currency is an "illusion."

It's not a illusion; it has actual value to some people--frequently awful people--which makes it real. Because it's an unregulatable market, however, it's largely dangerous, useless, exploitable, arbitrarily manipulable, wasteful, and ultimately inherently incompatible with civilized society.

It's really only a matter of time before trustless distributed systems take hold in "civilized" society. Half the majors on the planet are currently exploring or using blockchains on trusted networks cuz they love the way it resolves consensus.

Yeah, it'll be a volatile market but "currency" only implies that something has value and liquidity. It's still the 28.8k days. As tech and specifically mobile/IoT devices iterate in processing power, storage, and high speed 5g and newer mesh wifi protocols are rolled out, and processes are smoothed over and best practices emerge, you'd have to be pretty stupid to not see that there is at least "value" there. Whether you think it's "legitimate" or not is irrelevant.


The problem with trustless systems is that they don't exist yet. Cryptocurrencies move the trust requirement but don't eliminate them. People wouldn't be concerned about consolidation among the mining industry or exchanges having undue influence on the future decisions of coins if the those areas didn't require trust in the first place. Believing in a coin is a lot like believing in the board of a publicly traded company. Most of the time they do something close to the right thing but you trust them not the really screw it up. I wouldn't want my spending money to be dependent on the actions of a board.
 
2018-07-13 03:33:49 PM  
Anyone who uses bitcoin is a hardened criminal who deserves life in prison, even the ones who use it to buy evil, morally bankrupt, terrorist donuts.

http://bitcoinrestaurants.net/
 
2018-07-13 05:00:56 PM  
Blockchain is fine, its bitcoin mining that is ridiculous.  What a tremendous waste of resources.
 
2018-07-13 05:16:11 PM  
I like the concept of digital currency.  I really do.  In theory, it is an idea with monumental potential.

In practice however, if it can't function off-line to buy leather goods and sauces at the local fair, it's useless.
 
2018-07-13 08:23:28 PM  
Thomas Aquinas put it best:  The value of something is only what two people agree it is, provided neither are using force or deception to take advantage of the deal.

So yeah, bitcoins are money.  So are pogs, but it's doubtful you can pay your rent with them, either.
 
2018-07-13 08:55:11 PM  

DerAppie: mcreadyblue: koder: The Bank of Finland (BoF) has released a 133-page paper arguing the concept of digital currency is an "illusion."

It's not a illusion; it has actual value to some people--frequently awful people--which makes it real. Because it's an unregulatable market, however, it's largely dangerous, useless, exploitable, arbitrarily manipulable, wasteful, and ultimately inherently incompatible with civilized society.

Only gold has value.

In any sane economic system we'd be on a food-based currency.

/It would make diets easier to keep of
//I'll give you 2500 calories for that bag of 3500 calory m&ms


It happened for a while. It had logistical issues.

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