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(Guardian)   The huge mistakes cities keep making. Destroying the city through a combination of volcano and alien invasion surprisingly not included   ( theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, city, City, Shopping mall, city centre, Parking, Multi-storey car park, deluxe downtown experience, brand-new downtown highway  
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1672 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Jul 2018 at 2:35 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2018-07-12 01:51:18 PM  
The article is missing a number of key ways that cities continue to fark up including:

1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium
2) Tax breaks to induce any out-of-state company to relocate to the city
3) Light/Heavy rail going basically nowhere without parking
4) Allowing city police brutality
5) Skimp on snow removal
6) Monorails... Never build a monorail
 
2018-07-12 02:23:27 PM  

Zulthar: The article is missing a number of key ways that cities continue to fark up including:

1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium
2) Tax breaks to induce any out-of-state company to relocate to the city
3) Light/Heavy rail going basically nowhere without parking
4) Allowing city police brutality
5) Skimp on snow removal
6) Monorails... Never build a monorail


Don't forget to put that new conference center downtown.

In the 1960s, Halifax decided to put a highway along the waterfront to downtown to ease congestion. That only lasted long enough for them to build two raised highway exchanges before a change of government thankfully dropped the idea. One of those exchanges is on the edge of town (on top of Africville, but that was a goal of the system at the time) and the other is right downtown. The downtown one is finally going to be demolished (50 years later, eventually) but the one on the edge will never be removed. At least we have a functional waterfront with a massive boardwalk and tons of bars, restaurants, museums and a casino (it's crap). Poor city planning will fark areas over for generations.

Our new convention center looks nice, though.
 
2018-07-12 02:42:00 PM  
Highways along the waterfront are so stupid.  That land is a thousand times more valuable for recreation, restaurants, and high-end residential.
 
2018-07-12 02:44:02 PM  

FrancoFile: Highways along the waterfront are so stupid.  That land is a thousand times more valuable for recreation, restaurants, and high-end residential.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-07-12 02:44:38 PM  
Also, don't zone for mixed residential/commercial buildings in an effort to give the commercial workers someplace to live, and then allow every single resident to be a ridiculously priced luxury condo.
 
2018-07-12 02:48:15 PM  
Since the mall opened in 2012, Kouvola has been best-known for its dying city centre and the desperate efforts to resuscitate it.

The city center isn't dying, it just moved into the mall.
 
2018-07-12 03:02:11 PM  

Zulthar: 1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium


As anyone who has ever played Civ knows, a stadium helps keep the populace content.
 
2018-07-12 03:02:33 PM  

FrancoFile: Highways along the waterfront are so stupid.  That land is a thousand times more valuable for recreation, restaurants, and high-end residential.


It is now. Mostly they were run there because the existing properties were industrial/commercial warehouses just in-shore from the ports, and were cheaper and easier to condemn and seize.

That waterfront land was used because it was cheap.
 
2018-07-12 03:27:30 PM  
In my City it is give tax breaks to every developer to build yet another big box strip mall down from the road from the other Big Box strip mall.
 
2018-07-12 03:30:50 PM  

This text is now purple: FrancoFile: Highways along the waterfront are so stupid.  That land is a thousand times more valuable for recreation, restaurants, and high-end residential.

It is now. Mostly they were run there because the existing properties were industrial/commercial warehouses just in-shore from the ports, and were cheaper and easier to condemn and seize.

That waterfront land was used because it was cheap.


That is because waterfronts used to be smelly, polluted and close to the worlds biggest logistics network(the ocean) , now that there has been an effort to clean things up they have become pretty so now they are valuable as tourist and high end housing.
 
KIA
2018-07-12 03:38:51 PM  
A "city" isn't a sentient being and is thus incapable of making mistakes.

City leaders who are beguiled by builders and flimflam artists who want to build monorails or other equally useless things are making decisions and, from the standpoint of their own personal gain, they're not mistakes at all. They're the product of soft graft, gifts and discounts that aren't quite enough to be worth an indictement but which clearly favor the builders over the citizens.
 
2018-07-12 04:11:37 PM  

Zulthar: The article is missing a number of key ways that cities continue to fark up including:

1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium
2) Tax breaks to induce any out-of-state company to relocate to the city
3) Light/Heavy rail going basically nowhere without parking
4) Allowing city police brutality
5) Skimp on snow removal
6) Monorails... Never build a monorail


This sounds a lot like Baltimore
 
2018-07-12 04:22:27 PM  

dittybopper: Since the mall opened in 2012, Kouvola has been best-known for its dying city centre and the desperate efforts to resuscitate it.

The city center isn't dying, it just moved into the mall.


I'm sure Kouvola will happily provide a tax-free, rent-free structure for Amazon to finish off the mall.  How there could be a profitable one left is anyone's guess.
/narrator: it isn't profitable, stores just lose less than in the dying city centre
 
2018-07-12 04:23:33 PM  
for the love of all things FSM, please do not :

1) allow suburban commuters to work in the city without taxing them at least 50% more than the in city residents
2) encourage or tolerate shiatty police forces
3)  run a municipal bus/rail as a "business";  view it as a loss leader that reduced driving. period.
4) allow "gentrification" projects to become single income bracket neighborhoods
5)  build infrastructure projects that only replace existing capacity; if you hope/plan to grow, build for it now. yes, it will cost some tax $.
 
2018-07-12 04:43:44 PM  
Here's the number one stupid thing cities do:

Not zoning for enough housing (including increasing density, especially near transit).  Note that market rate (as opposed to subsidized affordable) housing is fine-you build enough of it, and the market rate will be low enough that subsidies won't be necessary.  Basically, keep building ten, twenty, fifty story apartment buildings until prices drop.

/number two is giving billionaires free sports stadiums
 
2018-07-12 04:58:12 PM  
78.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2018-07-12 05:02:41 PM  
iamskibibitz
Zulthar: The article is missing a number of key ways that cities continue to fark up including:

1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium
2) Tax breaks to induce any out-of-state company to relocate to the city
3) Light/Heavy rail going basically nowhere without parking
4) Allowing city police brutality
5) Skimp on snow removal
6) Monorails... Never build a monorail

This sounds a lot like Baltimore


All that's missing is the casino, the lifeblood of every city.
 
2018-07-12 05:08:14 PM  
One of the most efficiently run city centers I've ever seen in Brisbane, Australia.  There are four shopping malls in a four square block area, and mom and pop business in the surrounding blocks.  One of the things that helps is that a) all white collar businesses except doctors offices and real estate companies are in the city center; b) the retail hours in the suburbs are limited on weekends, causing all weekend shopping to go into the CBD; excellent public transportation, including the ferries on the river.
 
2018-07-12 05:16:51 PM  
I'd put at #1, at least in California and maybe in other regions of the US, is the overpromising of employee benefits such as large and early pensions and lifetime healthcare. Cities are finding their contributions to pension funds rising sharply, to the point where they're impairing essential services and the solvency of the cities themselves.
 
2018-07-12 05:32:59 PM  

Zulthar: The article is missing a number of key ways that cities continue to fark up including:

1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium
2) Tax breaks to induce any out-of-state company to relocate to the city
3) Light/Heavy rail going basically nowhere without parking
4) Allowing city police brutality
5) Skimp on snow removal
6) Monorails... Never build a monorail


Monorails and trolleys are what get city planners hard.
 
2018-07-12 05:34:27 PM  
Where is the Punishment Sphere?
 
2018-07-12 05:44:40 PM  

Fano: Zulthar: The article is missing a number of key ways that cities continue to fark up including:

1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium
2) Tax breaks to induce any out-of-state company to relocate to the city
3) Light/Heavy rail going basically nowhere without parking
4) Allowing city police brutality
5) Skimp on snow removal
6) Monorails... Never build a monorail

Monorails and trolleys are what get city planners hard.


img.fark.netView Full Size

What about blimps?
 
2018-07-12 05:58:49 PM  

jjorsett: I'd put at #1, at least in California and maybe in other regions of the US, is the overpromising of employee benefits such as large and early pensions and lifetime healthcare. Cities are finding their contributions to pension funds rising sharply, to the point where they're impairing essential services and the solvency of the cities themselves.


Add to that having politicians underfund the state pension system for decades, allowing workers to collect a pension after early retirement at age 55, and allow workers to double-dip on receiving pensions, and you have the entire state of Illinois.

/state pensions should be capped at 50k/yr here
//you should lose half of your pension payout if you leave the state
///at least they finally wised up and raised the minimum retirement age to like 65
 
2018-07-12 06:33:37 PM  

Zulthar: The article is missing a number of key ways that cities continue to fark up including:

1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium
2) Tax breaks to induce any out-of-state company to relocate to the city
3) Light/Heavy rail going basically nowhere without parking
4) Allowing city police brutality
5) Skimp on snow removal
6) Monorails... Never build a monorail


Every example in that article was Europe.  I don't think they have those problems as much as Murica.
 
2018-07-12 07:42:32 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-07-12 07:45:51 PM  
I just want to say, while searching for the above image; when I search for "quit hitting the...", the very first Google suggestion is "Quit hitting the tornado button."
 
2018-07-12 09:36:30 PM  

Zulthar: The article is missing a number of key ways that cities continue to fark up including:

1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium
2) Tax breaks to induce any out-of-state company to relocate to the city
3) Light/Heavy rail going basically nowhere without parking
4) Allowing city police brutality
5) Skimp on snow removal
6) Monorails... Never build a monorail


Until I got down to #5, I figured you were from Houston
 
2018-07-12 09:50:30 PM  
If you want to revitalize a city, just make it easier for small businesses to get a start. Basic rules are great (to keep the fires and food poisonings down), but anyone who's tried to open a restaurant or any other business in a good-sized town usually learns how to hate government with even more of a fiery passion than normal.

Stadiums? Nope. A while back, there was a poll asking large corporations about their priorities in choosing a city for new business, and sports teams came pretty much last on the list. A reasonable tax structure is usually pretty popular, though (not so high as to be prohibitive, not so low as to keep basic city services from being funded).
 
2018-07-12 10:15:57 PM  

cirby: anyone who's tried to open a restaurant or any other business in a good-sized town usually learns how to hate government with even more of a fiery passion than normal.


Good point. That's why there are no restaurants in cities.
 
2018-07-12 10:27:11 PM  

Zulthar: 6) Monorails... Never build a monorail


I heard those things are awfully loud.
 
2018-07-13 12:01:31 AM  

jaytkay: cirby: anyone who's tried to open a restaurant or any other business in a good-sized town usually learns how to hate government with even more of a fiery passion than normal.

Good point. That's why there are no restaurants in cities.


No, that's why something like 60% of restaurants (and most other businesses) that do open in cities close within a year. The ones that survive either have to get lucky, or have a LOT of financial backing before they even start. The worst part is the restaurants that never open in the first place - someone tries to open one, but they run out of time and money before they even get through the permitting process.

True, a lot of them are just bad planning. Lousy location, not-very-good food, poor service. But the recurring problem is often "we ran out of money before we could open, because permitting took six months longer than it should have," or the like. Even the ones that do open start off with the handicap of too much debt (paying six extra months of rent, with double the building costs, because of permitting issues). There's a deli under construction about a block from here - they've been working on it since January, aren't open yet, and are waiting for Yet Another Permit before being able to even finish construction...

You'll notice that chain restaurants tend to not have as many problems with that, since they have people on staff who handle that sort of thing for a living, and can hire more-expensive construction companies that smooth things out, too.
 
2018-07-13 05:30:23 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Zulthar: 6) Monorails... Never build a monorail

I heard those things are awfully loud.


It glides as softly as a cloud.
 
2018-07-13 07:11:29 AM  

Leader O'Cola: for the love of all things FSM, please do not :

1) allow suburban commuters to work in the city without taxing them at least 50% more than the in city residents
2) encourage or tolerate shiatty police forces
3)  run a municipal bus/rail as a "business";  view it as a loss leader that reduced driving. period.
4) allow "gentrification" projects to become single income bracket neighborhoods
5)  build infrastructure projects that only replace existing capacity; if you hope/plan to grow, build for it now. yes, it will cost some tax $.


#1 doesn't make much sense:

- Push cost of living higher downtown.
- Push more gentrification in low-income areas adjacent to downtown.
- Displace low-income residents forced further out
- Displaced low-income residents now pay commuter tax

Or more likely, since suburbs are also municipalities that compete with the cities they orbit:

- Downtown businesses not catering to services downtown (e.g. hotels, restaurants) move their operations to suburban office parks with tax breaks and lower cost overheads.  

If both happen:

- Many downtown businesses not catering to downtown services move to suburban office parks, pulling both high income downtown singles and dinks on reverse commutes and people from middle class suburbia, while service industry workers priced out of city living commute into their service jobs from low income suburbs and pay higher taxes.   

-------
The most likely trend is that many suburbs, as competing entities who can see the growing urbanist appeal, engage in projects to cash in on that appeal, replacing aging malls with mixed-use developments and satellite town center cores.

E.g.: Silver Spring 
mygreenmontgomery.orgView Full Size
 
2018-07-13 08:11:17 AM  
St. Petersburg, FL pretty much managed to avoid all of those.

The waterfront is mostly parkland.
The main shopping is downtown and at pretty evenly spaced areas throughout the city.
Infrastructure is great.
 
2018-07-13 11:33:21 AM  

cirby: jaytkay: cirby: anyone who's tried to open a restaurant or any other business in a good-sized town usually learns how to hate government with even more of a fiery passion than normal.

Good point. That's why there are no restaurants in cities.

No, that's why something like 60% of restaurants (and most other businesses) that do open in cities close within a year. The ones that survive either have to get lucky, or have a LOT of financial backing before they even start. The worst part is the restaurants that never open in the first place - someone tries to open one, but they run out of time and money before they even get through the permitting process.

True, a lot of them are just bad planning. Lousy location, not-very-good food, poor service. But the recurring problem is often "we ran out of money before we could open, because permitting took six months longer than it should have," or the like. Even the ones that do open start off with the handicap of too much debt (paying six extra months of rent, with double the building costs, because of permitting issues). There's a deli under construction about a block from here - they've been working on it since January, aren't open yet, and are waiting for Yet Another Permit before being able to even finish construction...

You'll notice that chain restaurants tend to not have as many problems with that, since they have people on staff who handle that sort of thing for a living, and can hire more-expensive construction companies that smooth things out, too.


I am an architect and I can't stress this enough...get me (or any architect) involved early if you are opening a small business because you will be dealing with the city, health departments, etc. way longer if you don't follow the process correctly.  My experience is many start construction, get shut down for not having a building permit, then come to me and don't understand why it is taking so long to get a building permit.  These cities have a review process and I can't just draw up plans overnight either....there are specific things all of these city departments expect to see, mostly for the safety and well being of the general public.
 
2018-07-13 12:15:32 PM  

Leader O'Cola: for the love of all things FSM, please do not :

1) allow suburban commuters to work in the city without taxing them at least 50% more than the in city residents
2) encourage or tolerate shiatty police forces
3)  run a municipal bus/rail as a "business";  view it as a loss leader that reduced driving. period.
4) allow "gentrification" projects to become single income bracket neighborhoods
5)  build infrastructure projects that only replace existing capacity; if you hope/plan to grow, build for it now. yes, it will cost some tax $.


I don't think #1 is even constitutional. There's equal protection issues with taxing residents and non-residents of a city different rates. Come to think of it, it doesn't even make sense. What taxes are you even talking about? Income taxes? Because those are state and federal level, neither of which would give two shiats about whether you were a commuter. Sales taxes? How could you possibly enforce a variance in sales taxes based on the residence of the purchaser? It couldn't be property taxes, since the commuters don't have property in the city to tax. Seriously, what does this proposal even mean?
 
2018-07-13 12:30:39 PM  

Izunbacol: Leader O'Cola: for the love of all things FSM, please do not :

1) allow suburban commuters to work in the city without taxing them at least 50% more than the in city residents
2) encourage or tolerate shiatty police forces
3)  run a municipal bus/rail as a "business";  view it as a loss leader that reduced driving. period.
4) allow "gentrification" projects to become single income bracket neighborhoods
5)  build infrastructure projects that only replace existing capacity; if you hope/plan to grow, build for it now. yes, it will cost some tax $.

#1 doesn't make much sense:

- Push cost of living higher downtown.
- Push more gentrification in low-income areas adjacent to downtown.
- Displace low-income residents forced further out
- Displaced low-income residents now pay commuter tax

Or more likely, since suburbs are also municipalities that compete with the cities they orbit:

- Downtown businesses not catering to services downtown (e.g. hotels, restaurants) move their operations to suburban office parks with tax breaks and lower cost overheads.  

If both happen:

- Many downtown businesses not catering to downtown services move to suburban office parks, pulling both high income downtown singles and dinks on reverse commutes and people from middle class suburbia, while service industry workers priced out of city living commute into their service jobs from low income suburbs and pay higher taxes.   

-------
The most likely trend is that many suburbs, as competing entities who can see the growing urbanist appeal, engage in projects to cash in on that appeal, replacing aging malls with mixed-use developments and satellite town center cores.

E.g.: Silver Spring [mygreenmontgomery.org image 600x400]


it's a vicious cycle, without an everyone wins solution. but allowing people to make $300k on jobs then live and spend all their income outside the city- while the city has to maintain all infrastructure (roads, water, electric, police! etc) to maintain the highrise corporate office they are employed by is not sustainable.  If the cost of living downtown goes up to account for the 'impetus' of bringing high earners back in, the cost of living outside goes down, and low income people can still come into the city if you view public transit like I suggested.

As an example, I offer about the worst case:  Detroit.  Massive infrastructure that as built for 4-5x the population (tax base) that it now has.  It simply can't be kept up unless you attract (or, FORCE) people back in.  Or.... make the commuters pay more for the privelege of working there.
 
2018-07-13 12:38:22 PM  

shut_it_down: Leader O'Cola: for the love of all things FSM, please do not :

1) allow suburban commuters to work in the city without taxing them at least 50% more than the in city residents
2) encourage or tolerate shiatty police forces
3)  run a municipal bus/rail as a "business";  view it as a loss leader that reduced driving. period.
4) allow "gentrification" projects to become single income bracket neighborhoods
5)  build infrastructure projects that only replace existing capacity; if you hope/plan to grow, build for it now. yes, it will cost some tax $.

I don't think #1 is even constitutional. There's equal protection issues with taxing residents and non-residents of a city different rates. Come to think of it, it doesn't even make sense. What taxes are you even talking about? Income taxes? Because those are state and federal level, neither of which would give two shiats about whether you were a commuter. Sales taxes? How could you possibly enforce a variance in sales taxes based on the residence of the purchaser? It couldn't be property taxes, since the commuters don't have property in the city to tax. Seriously, what does this proposal even mean?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commute​r​_tax
 
2018-07-13 01:34:33 PM  
This thread fails without crapping on Robert Moses

https://untappedcities.com/2013/12/18​/​5-things-in-nyc-we-can-blame-on-robert​-moses/

Remember the guy who made the Long Island Expressway bridges too low to allow buses? Who bet on cars when the average New Yorker didn't have one?  Who decided the best way to stick it to poor people is by handicapping the bus and subway systems.

Pepperidge Farm and most NYOC remember, or at least feel it every-time it takes 2 hours to get from the airport to uptown.
 
2018-07-13 03:17:34 PM  

Zulthar: The article is missing a number of key ways that cities continue to fark up including:

1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium
2) Tax breaks to induce any out-of-state company to relocate to the city
3) Light/Heavy rail going basically nowhere without parking
4) Allowing city police brutality
5) Skimp on snow removal
6) Monorails... Never build a monorail


No - cars are the root of all the problems in the city. Everyone should bike or hoverboard. No cars. NO CARS!!! CARS ARE EVIL! NO ROADS! ONLY BIKE ROADS!

Jokes on you car owner suckers. I don't need a car. I just get my laundry done by a service, my food is delivered - both hot and groceries - and I don't even bother with brick and mortar. I just order Amazon. No one needs a personal car.
 
2018-07-13 03:22:13 PM  

Sim Tree: I just want to say, while searching for the above image; when I search for "quit hitting the...", the very first Google suggestion is "Quit hitting the tornado button."


I think that is my favorite thing I've ever seen on the internet.
 
2018-07-13 03:23:30 PM  

Leader O'Cola: for the love of all things FSM, please do not :

1) allow suburban commuters to work in the city without taxing them at least 50% more than the in city residents


San Francisco has the opposite problem.
 
2018-07-13 03:27:07 PM  

gunther_bumpass: Zulthar: The article is missing a number of key ways that cities continue to fark up including:

1) Paying for Sports Stadiums or granting tax breaks for a Sport Stadium
2) Tax breaks to induce any out-of-state company to relocate to the city
3) Light/Heavy rail going basically nowhere without parking
4) Allowing city police brutality
5) Skimp on snow removal
6) Monorails... Never build a monorail

No - cars are the root of all the problems in the city. Everyone should bike or hoverboard. No cars. NO CARS!!! CARS ARE EVIL! NO ROADS! ONLY BIKE ROADS!

Jokes on you car owner suckers. I don't need a car. I just get my laundry done by a service, my food is delivered - both hot and groceries - and I don't even bother with brick and mortar. I just order Amazon. No one needs a personal car.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
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