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(Guardian)   Order up a case of sour grapes for Elon Musk, who was upset his generous offer of a mini submarine to help with the Thai rescue effort was seen as unpractical   ( theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Musk, Rescue, Elon Musk, Thai rescue officials, extensive cave video, successful rescue, joint command centre, Thai provincial governor  
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1764 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Jul 2018 at 2:45 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-07-10 11:21:38 PM  
I'd like to see Mr. Musk's comments first hand before I draw any conclusions. Hearsay isn't journalism it is clickbait.
 
2018-07-11 02:57:24 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2018-07-11 02:59:33 AM  
The "rescue chief" was a provincial governor who didn't know squat about it. The actual exchange was with Dick Stanton who encouraged Musk to continue with their engineering efforts. Musk's response is here. It's a BS story. Here Musk is trying to help out and gets shiat on. I'm on Musk's side.

https://vox.com/2018/7/10/17553820/el​o​n-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine
 
2018-07-11 03:01:46 AM  
Just because it didn't work out this time doesn't mean it might not be useful in other situations. No sour grapes, Elon Musk got a good PR boost out of this, and future rescues might benefit from the work done.
 
2018-07-11 03:05:04 AM  
Pleased it's not a case of a kid died and could've been saved by being cryogenically frozen in the tube.
 
2018-07-11 03:07:24 AM  

neilbradley: The "rescue chief" was a provincial governor who didn't know squat about it. The actual exchange was with Dick Stanton who encouraged Musk to continue with their engineering efforts. Musk's response is here. It's a BS story. Here Musk is trying to help out and gets shiat on. I'm on Musk's side.

https://vox.com/2018/7/10/17553820/elo​n-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine


"If it isn't needed or won't help, that would be great to know.  Otherwise, it would be very helpful to have as much design direction as possible."

Yeah, this doesn't sound like sour grapes to me.
 
2018-07-11 03:10:04 AM  

neilbradley: The "rescue chief" was a provincial governor who didn't know squat about it. The actual exchange was with Dick Stanton who encouraged Musk to continue with their engineering efforts. Musk's response is here. It's a BS story. Here Musk is trying to help out and gets shiat on. I'm on Musk's side.

https://vox.com/2018/7/10/17553820/elo​n-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine


Everything about Musk makes it seem like he has always gotten by on the hard work of others and mistaken it for his own genius.

Besides, kids have all been rescued. Musk is pouting because the kids weren't rescued his way.
 
2018-07-11 03:21:11 AM  
So he didn't get to deploy his tool that was long, hard, and ready to fill with seamen? No wonder he's pouting. Musk got submarine-blocked, the poor drama queen.

I guess he didn't call it The Boring Company for nothing.
 
2018-07-11 03:30:29 AM  
Another thread where the Musk haters can describe how unimpressed they are? Wonderful!
 
2018-07-11 03:33:50 AM  
I guess he's the kind of guy where either you like him, or really really REALLY hate his farking guts.  There doesn't seem to be any sort of in-between.  It's very curious to me.
 
2018-07-11 03:38:47 AM  
Great it wasn't required and even better to see someone taking positive steps to help whilst the interxperts mouth off in order to appear to have a worthwhile opinion.

The fascinating thing here is to see his roots remain strong. "'n boer maak 'n plan".
 
2018-07-11 04:21:43 AM  

LoneWolf343: neilbradley: The "rescue chief" was a provincial governor who didn't know squat about it. The actual exchange was with Dick Stanton who encouraged Musk to continue with their engineering efforts. Musk's response is here. It's a BS story. Here Musk is trying to help out and gets shiat on. I'm on Musk's side.

https://vox.com/2018/7/10/17553820/elo​n-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine

Everything about Musk makes it seem like he has always gotten by on the hard work of others and mistaken it for his own genius.

Besides, kids have all been rescued. Musk is pouting because the kids weren't rescued his way.


Yup.
He's Thomas Edison, or Trump. Not a genius, just rich and a good showman.
 
2018-07-11 04:41:35 AM  
Meh. I'll take a narcissist who wants to help over one who enjoys doing the opposite any day.
 
2018-07-11 04:52:36 AM  
"How dare that egomaniac Elon Musk try to make everything about him," say people who make everything about Elon Musk.
 
2018-07-11 04:53:00 AM  

neilbradley: The "rescue chief" was a provincial governor who didn't know squat about it. The actual exchange was with Dick Stanton who encouraged Musk to continue with their engineering efforts. Musk's response is here. It's a BS story. Here Musk is trying to help out and gets shiat on. I'm on Musk's side.

https://vox.com/2018/7/10/17553820/elo​n-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine


In other words the rescue guys smiled and told Musk to keep working because they did not want to look like assholes, but then told their politicians it would not probably work, so the politicians would not order them to wait.

I have no expertise in cave diving, but I have crawled through caves.  It seems to me that a rigid submarine would get stuck in small tight passages and thus block rescue efforts.  That is not to say that such a sub might not work in some of the more open passages of the cave, if it could get to them, just that it would not be able to go the whole way.

Some of Elons other ideas would have been great if they had more time,and maybe his efforts will lead to better rescue equipment in the future.
 
2018-07-11 04:59:49 AM  
 
2018-07-11 05:00:07 AM  

LoneWolf343: neilbradley: The "rescue chief" was a provincial governor who didn't know squat about it. The actual exchange was with Dick Stanton who encouraged Musk to continue with their engineering efforts. Musk's response is here. It's a BS story. Here Musk is trying to help out and gets shiat on. I'm on Musk's side.

https://vox.com/2018/7/10/17553820/elo​n-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine

Everything about Musk makes it seem like he has always gotten by on the hard work of others and mistaken it for his own genius.

Besides, kids have all been rescued. Musk is pouting because the kids weren't rescued his way.


He's tbe Thomas Edison of our time.  Ee all know that almost all Edison projects were actually the result of hundreds of engineers and technicians working together, but Edison was the guy who knew how to organize such a company and the direction he wanted to go.  Musk is the same way.  He knows enough about engineering and business to know which ideas he can market and profit off of and the balls to actually to revolutionary new things instead of just improving existing things.  Even when his big ideas are a long shot, he knows he can afford it because the Boring Company has enough other uses to make the tech development profitable.
 
2018-07-11 05:21:54 AM  

neilbradley: The "rescue chief" was a provincial governor who didn't know squat about it. The actual exchange was with Dick Stanton who encouraged Musk to continue with their engineering efforts. Musk's response is here. It's a BS story. Here Musk is trying to help out and gets shiat on. I'm on Musk's side.

https://vox.com/2018/7/10/17553820/elo​n-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine


Ditto - he did something practical, even if ultimately it wasn't the solution - and a lot more than the "thoughts and prayers" brigade. Are folk going to criticise him when this happens to astronauts trapped in a malfunctioning craft way outside of LEO? Or will they complain he didn't throw enough resources into it? Fark the haters, Musk, stick to your guns and keep on your path.

On a sad note, the aussie diver helping out lost his father last night. Hope the old man died knowing his son was being a hero.
 
2018-07-11 05:40:36 AM  

Cpl.D: I guess he's the kind of guy where either you like him, or really really REALLY hate his farking guts.  There doesn't seem to be any sort of in-between.  It's very curious to me.


I love what he does* and that he does it but find his personality a bit annoying. Does that count for anything? I also think he has a very delicate ego, but does good things for mostly good reasons. This is kind of highlighting this. I don't think he's mad that they didn't use it but I do think his ego didn't like that someone dismissed it.

* in theory. I think he needs a business mind to make sure he can continue to do so
 
2018-07-11 05:48:32 AM  
He has no friends.
 
2018-07-11 05:54:18 AM  
He can save it for the next time something like this happens.
 
2018-07-11 06:00:16 AM  
Who brings a six-foot dildo to Thailand?

They're a little people, like 5 and a half feet on average.

Shouldn't need more then a ballpark frank.

But no, Elon's is the biggest.
 
2018-07-11 06:08:08 AM  

bekovich: He can save it for the next time something like this happens.


The prototype is being left in Thailand and the rescuers have asked to keep working on these ideas for the future.  The only people who are really bothered by this are people who would deny Elon eating his crackers.
 
2018-07-11 06:08:29 AM  
Let's just think about his "solution" for a minute. It involves putting a terrified child into a black metal tube, where he has absolutely no way to communicate effectively with the outside and barely any room to move. Then (assuming kid agrees), divers will somehow maneuver this tube through a series of very tight confining cave spaces, including areas in which they have to navigate above ground climbs (do they take the kid out for those, or leave him in and somehow pull the whole tube up a muddy hill?). And the whole time this is happening, the kid has no idea what is happening or if he is trapped/stuck/abandoned. As someone who is claustrophobic, I can tell you which option (diving independently or stuck in a black tube) I would choose. The fact that Musk even considered this a good plan partly explains why Tesla is in the mess they are right now.
 
2018-07-11 06:10:40 AM  
Self driving submarine.
 
2018-07-11 06:15:13 AM  
I don't feel one way or the other about this guy...
He tried to help...and used his own money.
He's leaving the sub behind in case they could use it at a later date.

WTF does anyone care?

For all of you haters...

WHAT DID YOU DO?
 
2018-07-11 06:24:08 AM  
What did I do? I stayed the f#@k out of the way and let the experts handle it.  The actual experts.   With experience.  Do you really think the disaster coordinator should stop managing the disaster and have meetings with every well intentioned idiot that wants to turn the disaster into their own personal toy testing facility?   This wasnt some well thought out and tested system he was proposing.  It was a foolish and misguided idea that wasnt even tested.  Yeah, he stuck it in a pool.  The only similarity between a pool and a flooded cave is the presence of water.
 
2018-07-11 06:35:26 AM  
If he actually gave a damn, he would take the thing back to the US, test it in caves, and improve the system so it would be ready for the next tradgedy.   Will he do that? Heck no. Guy has a short attention span and was only in it for an ego stroking.
 
2018-07-11 07:20:25 AM  
He sure was!  Why, how about all the times he called press conferences just so he could drive out on stage in a tesla with that thing on a cart!  Remember when he went on Oprah and gave everyone in the studio audience their own little submarine!?  The farking nerve of that guy!   I don't know what kind of man thinks it's okay to stroke his ego in a life or death situation by doing a twelve city tour and selling tickets to every god damn conference center just so people could go single file past his prototype and then kiss a brass statue of his balls!   Or how he went on every single news station, national and local, and spent hours and hours talking about that thing with his PR team, which is a thing that actually happened, with an actual PR team!  Can you believe it?!   The farking nerve of that guy!
 
2018-07-11 07:25:01 AM  

Jones_Boy: If he actually gave a damn, he would take the thing back to the US, test it in caves, and improve the system so it would be ready for the next tradgedy.


His team built it in like two days out of spare parts. It's probably cheaper to build another one in the US than it would be to ship the original back across he ocean. Gives them a chance to incorporate design changes too.

Will he do that? Heck no. Guy has a short attention span and was only in it for an ego stroking.

I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt during the rescue op, but these last couple of posts from him certainly don't inspire confidence.
 
2018-07-11 07:31:42 AM  
I finally found a segment of the population even more useless than those who offer hopes and prayers; those who criticize Elon Musk for putting the time and resources towards trying to rescue kids.
 
2018-07-11 07:34:07 AM  
The professional rescue staff were never ever going to use an untested device with no training anyhow, the entire thing was a farce.
 
2018-07-11 07:35:39 AM  

Jones_Boy: If he actually gave a damn, he would take the thing back to the US, test it in caves, and improve the system so it would be ready for the next tradgedy.   Will he do that? Heck no. Guy has a short attention span and was only in it for an ego stroking.


It's a unique vehicle. It's not that personal rescue subs are new, there just isn't much of a market for them. No one had a vehicle for caves. There was a sudden demand and only someone with money, rapid fabrication experience, staff with an understanding of life support, and degrees in material sciences and engineering could make the thing on short notice.
If there was more time tho, many could have built it. Time was the problem.

Now that it exists there may be a new market, but then maybe there's less of a need for Elon to be involved. Development was more or less completed and he could just share the plans with the worlds navies. Maybe rescue equipment might be his new thing. Maybe they are already on it and there's no need.

It's literally the day after the incident and I think it's a bit soon for anyone to decide what should be done. It's going to take some time to go over the details and even see if this was the better solution. Given more time he could develop a better design, but there's no rush now.
He's got a new spacecapsule headed to the pad and that staff had a job already.

/lots of people who did nothing wanting to dogpile on a guy who tried to do something.
/It's no wonder why wealthy people are hesitant to take up causes like this.
 
2018-07-11 07:42:10 AM  
Musk provided a plan B, at his own cost, to a terrible situation with no really great Plan A strategies.  Even the plan that worked didn't have a very high prediction for success.

Plan A being successful in no way invalidates having a Plan B.  Plan B is never as good as Plan A, otherwise it would be Plan A.

If the guy in charge hadn't gone to the world media with the "Musk's solution is impractical" line, I doubt we'd be hearing much more about it, but there's one thing Musk can't handle, and that's someone insulting his work in the media.  Calling his solution impractical, when just about EVERY solution was impractical, was a stupid thing to do.
 
2018-07-11 07:42:21 AM  
I saw an illustration of the cave system they're in, and I'm not sure how they were getting divers in and out, let alone a rigid cylinder large enough to hold a child. A fricken' Royal Navy Seal died doing his part in the rescue.
 
2018-07-11 07:54:01 AM  
Day late, if not a dollar short.
 
2018-07-11 07:56:50 AM  

Nurglitch: I saw an illustration of the cave system they're in, and I'm not sure how they were getting divers in and out, let alone a rigid cylinder large enough to hold a child. A fricken' Royal Navy Seal died doing his part in the rescue.


His name was Saman Gunan.  He was a former Thai SEAL.
 
2018-07-11 08:00:43 AM  
Musk was being an annoying AW throughout the whole thing, but for some reason it really pisses people off that he was a productive annoying AW throughout the whole thing.
 
2018-07-11 08:01:48 AM  

coffemonster: Let's just think about his "solution" for a minute. It involves putting a terrified child into a black metal tube, where he has absolutely no way to communicate effectively with the outside and barely any room to move. Then (assuming kid agrees), divers will somehow maneuver this tube through a series of very tight confining cave spaces, including areas in which they have to navigate above ground climbs (do they take the kid out for those, or leave him in and somehow pull the whole tube up a muddy hill?). And the whole time this is happening, the kid has no idea what is happening or if he is trapped/stuck/abandoned. As someone who is claustrophobic, I can tell you which option (diving independently or stuck in a black tube) I would choose. The fact that Musk even considered this a good plan partly explains why Tesla is in the mess they are right now.


Have you read anything about the route out? Everything you've said happened with or without a small air-tight tube. 38cm/15-inch crawl-spaces that each child had to go through, with a rope to pull on, and people on each end pushing and pulling them through. I've got a claustrophobia, too - it's being stuck in a narrow, constricting space that's not quite big enough for me to get through (yeah, it's a birth trauma, I keep having dreams about it, sue me). I'd rather take my chances in a robust envelope of known strength that keeps moving than my own body being squeezed through like toothpaste. YMMV, of course. I sympathise with claustrophobes.
 
2018-07-11 08:14:25 AM  

LoneWolf343: neilbradley: The "rescue chief" was a provincial governor who didn't know squat about it. The actual exchange was with Dick Stanton who encouraged Musk to continue with their engineering efforts. Musk's response is here. It's a BS story. Here Musk is trying to help out and gets shiat on. I'm on Musk's side.

https://vox.com/2018/7/10/17553820/elo​n-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine

Everything about Musk makes it seem like he has always gotten by on the hard work of others and mistaken it for his own genius.

Besides, kids have all been rescued. Musk is pouting because the kids weren't rescued his way.


Where, exactly, did he pout?
 
2018-07-11 08:28:31 AM  

ol' gormsby: coffemonster: Let's just think about his "solution" for a minute. It involves putting a terrified child into a black metal tube, where he has absolutely no way to communicate effectively with the outside and barely any room to move. Then (assuming kid agrees), divers will somehow maneuver this tube through a series of very tight confining cave spaces, including areas in which they have to navigate above ground climbs (do they take the kid out for those, or leave him in and somehow pull the whole tube up a muddy hill?). And the whole time this is happening, the kid has no idea what is happening or if he is trapped/stuck/abandoned. As someone who is claustrophobic, I can tell you which option (diving independently or stuck in a black tube) I would choose. The fact that Musk even considered this a good plan partly explains why Tesla is in the mess they are right now.

Have you read anything about the route out? Everything you've said happened with or without a small air-tight tube. 38cm/15-inch crawl-spaces that each child had to go through, with a rope to pull on, and people on each end pushing and pulling them through. I've got a claustrophobia, too - it's being stuck in a narrow, constricting space that's not quite big enough for me to get through (yeah, it's a birth trauma, I keep having dreams about it, sue me). I'd rather take my chances in a robust envelope of known strength that keeps moving than my own body being squeezed through like toothpaste. YMMV, of course. I sympathise with claustrophobes.


Yeah, I've dived tight spaces in low visibility a long way from an exit, and that shiat is challenging even if you aren't claustrophobic. The biggest danger in diving the kids out was that one of them would panic. They're just children, some of them didn't even know how to swim when they went into the cave, there's a language barrier with at least some of the rescue divers, and then they're diving hundreds of meters in dark silty confined conditions.

The main idea of this rescue tube, I would think, would've been to remove the danger of the child's unpredictability and potential panic from the equation. Such a container could be manipulated by seasoned professionals in exactly the same way whether the kid inside it is freaking out or not.

/probably for the best that they didn't need it, but it doesn't seem like a dumb option to have explored
//still haven't read a coherent explanation of what the fark happened to the Thai SEAL who died
 
2018-07-11 08:30:33 AM  

SwiftFox: Day late, if not a dollar short.


It was actually delivered while rescue operations were still going.
The original time table kept moving up since the flooding wouldn't stop, and there were still doubts about the original plan. Having lost an experienced special forces diver on the same route youe expect kids to swim would cause anyone to start considering all other options.

I think the bigger problem was that no one had a chance to train on this equipment, but these were desperate times. Better to have it and not need it, as they say.
I don't think anyone is complaining about the outcome except for trolls on the internet.
 
2018-07-11 08:30:41 AM  

ds615: LoneWolf343: neilbradley: The "rescue chief" was a provincial governor who didn't know squat about it. The actual exchange was with Dick Stanton who encouraged Musk to continue with their engineering efforts. Musk's response is here. It's a BS story. Here Musk is trying to help out and gets shiat on. I'm on Musk's side.

https://vox.com/2018/7/10/17553820/elo​n-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine

Everything about Musk makes it seem like he has always gotten by on the hard work of others and mistaken it for his own genius.

Besides, kids have all been rescued. Musk is pouting because the kids weren't rescued his way.

Yup.
He's Thomas Edison, or Trump. Not a genius, just rich and a good showman.


More like a Jobs.... Edison did actual lab work.
 
2018-07-11 08:31:40 AM  
Hey it's more than any other billionaire offered, so good on him.
 
2018-07-11 08:33:24 AM  
Don't worry, I'm sure Hollywood will correct this in a few years when they inevitably make a movie out of this, where the heroic Americans did come and rescue the children and their coach Matt Damon with their super sub.  Co-starring Chris Evans as the SEAL who died rescuing them, and all of the Asians will be played by Scarlett Johannson.
 
2018-07-11 08:34:01 AM  

ol' gormsby: he did something practical, even if ultimately it wasn't the solution - and a lot more than the "thoughts and prayers" brigade


vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size
 
2018-07-11 08:45:20 AM  
Monkeyfark Ridiculous:The main idea of this rescue tube, I would think, would've been to remove the danger of the child's unpredictability and potential panic from the equation. Such a container could be manipulated by seasoned professionals in exactly the same way whether the kid inside it is freaking out or not.

That is pretty much what I was taking from it. As it was they had to medicate the kids as they took them out so they wouldn't freak out. Depending on the level of drugs needed to keep the kid zonked but still be able to drag him through the caves safely - it was probably good to have a potential back up if it went bad.

I don't understand the crazy hate for Elon Musk. He is definitely a very weird guy with some problems in regards to social interactions and understanding what is appropriate, but he's focused all his efforts on pushing electric cars, mass transit, solar energy, and space exploration.
 
2018-07-11 08:47:14 AM  

LoneWolf343: Everything about Musk makes it seem like he has always gotten by on the hard work of others and mistaken it for his own genius.


Name a large technology (or any) company where the owner/CEO knows how and does everything themselves.
 
2018-07-11 08:59:26 AM  
As great a tool may seem, I don't use a jackhammer to hang up a picture frame.
 
2018-07-11 08:59:50 AM  

abhorrent1: LoneWolf343: Everything about Musk makes it seem like he has always gotten by on the hard work of others and mistaken it for his own genius.

Name a large technology (or any) company where the owner/CEO knows how and does everything themselves.


Virgin?
 
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