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(BBC-US)   "You are in breach of condition 15.4(c) of your agreement with PayPal Credit as we have received notice that you are deceased... this breach is not capable of remedy"   ( bbc.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Mr Durdle, Death, PayPal, husband Howard Durdle, Mrs Durdle, PayPal Credit, bereaved husband, legal action  
•       •       •

4794 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jul 2018 at 10:28 PM (9 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2018-07-10 08:02:35 PM  
Their systems are to blame. It's one of many examples of how not having a human to check automated messages causes grief and embarrassment. Same with automated media - some of the stuff that Google picks up and sends to its news page is downright idiotic. Job boards that advertise for available positions in the same city name but different countries. Utility companies sending out bills for billions of dollars and cutting off service because the system initiates it without human intervention. And fixing it is the real challenge because when you finally get a human to answer your call they don't have the ability to fix the issue, can't understand you, or comprehend why getting a billion dollar electrical bill would upset you.
 
2018-07-10 08:46:44 PM  
it isn't?  time to fire my accountant
 
2018-07-10 09:12:10 PM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: it isn't?  time to fire my accountant


Your story checks out.
 
2018-07-10 10:10:30 PM  
Mr Durdle said a member of PayPal's staff had told him there were three possible explanations:
a bug
a bad letter template
human error


deadbeat.docx?
 
2018-07-10 10:17:12 PM  
I don't use PayPal so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do you get into debt with them?
 
2018-07-10 10:31:01 PM  

fusillade762: I don't use PayPal so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do you get into debt with them?


PayPal offers credit cards now.
 
2018-07-10 10:32:18 PM  

fusillade762: I don't use PayPal so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do you get into debt with them?


Paypal Credit.

Like if you buy an appliance they offer you store financing - if you use Paypal, they offer a revolving credit line. It's kind of nice in that they often offer 6 months (or more) no interest financing. I've used it to buy laptops on eBay.
 
2018-07-10 10:34:36 PM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size


I want more life... Father
 
2018-07-10 10:36:36 PM  

jaytkay: fusillade762: I don't use PayPal so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do you get into debt with them?

Paypal Credit.

Like if you buy an appliance they offer you store financing - if you use Paypal, they offer a revolving credit line. It's kind of nice in that they often offer 6 months (or more) no interest financing. I've used it to buy laptops on eBay.


I don't know why but the PayPal debt discussion for some reason made me want  to post an add for slightly used Fleshlight on eBay.

/I should probably get a therapist
 
2018-07-10 10:38:58 PM  

Farxist Marxist: or comprehend why getting a billion dollar electrical bill would upset you.


Why would a billion dollar electrical bill upset you, if you don't have a billion dollars?

John Paul Getty said "If you owe the bank 100 dollars, that's your problem; if you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem."

Also "If you can count your money, you don't have a billion dollars."
 
2018-07-10 10:48:02 PM  

fusillade762: I don't use PayPal so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do you get into debt with them?


When they penalize you for more than what you have in your balance.

/people in my line of work use PayPal a lot.
//PayPal is shiat.
///Also has no credible competition.
 
2018-07-10 10:58:49 PM  

fusillade762: I don't use PayPal so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do you get into debt with them?


Back in their olden times I used a CC that didn't have enough room on it and had an empty bank account connected to that PayPal account. I ended up with a negative balance instead of the transaction being declined for some odd reason.
 
2018-07-10 11:00:51 PM  
This kind of dumb shiat happens all the time.  Even the government is awful with it.

Just three weeks ago my grandmother was summoned to Jury Duty.   She passed away 3 years ago.
 
2018-07-10 11:01:23 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 361x139]

I want more life... Father


White man's burden isn't bourbon afterall,  it's a whining
NEXUS-6 N6MAA10816
 
2018-07-10 11:17:47 PM  
"You are in breach of condition 15.4(c) of your agreement with PayPal Credit

What IS "condition 15.4(c)" of PayPal Credit? That might give a clue about how/why that moronic letter was generated.
 
2018-07-10 11:29:56 PM  

NutWrench: What IS "condition 15.4(c)"


Double secret probation.
 
2018-07-10 11:52:54 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

Someone is not going to be pleased about this.
 
2018-07-10 11:57:04 PM  

NutWrench: "You are in breach of condition 15.4(c) of your agreement with PayPal Credit

What IS "condition 15.4(c)" of PayPal Credit? That might give a clue about how/why that moronic letter was generated.


15. CREDIT INVESTIGATION AND REPORTING:

You authorize us to make or have made any credit, employment and income, and investigative inquiries we deem appropriate related to your application for credit, this Account, and the collection of amounts owed on this Account. You agree that we have the right to obtain credit reports on you in connection with (1) your application for this Account, (2) any potential Credit Line increase and (3) as we deem reasonably necessary to maintain and collect this Account.

...as near as I can tell, there is no 15.4, much less a 15.4(c). My guess is they tried to pull a credit inquiry and weren't allowed to because she was dead.
 
2018-07-11 12:10:18 AM  
How do you have a debt with paypal?  I thought you put money in, then you can pay people with it?
 
2018-07-11 12:18:06 AM  

jaytkay: fusillade762: I don't use PayPal so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do you get into debt with them?

Paypal Credit.


shiat is a PITA too (or was). Signed up once as they offered a promo and I was making a large ebay purchase. Every time after I bought something from ebay, the shiat would automatically try to default to Paypal credit. One time I didn't realize it and ended up paying interest :( It was like a $5 item, but still pissed me off.
/Have never paid interest on anything in my life besides that as of now.
 
2018-07-11 12:19:04 AM  

Millennium: NutWrench: "You are in breach of condition 15.4(c) of your agreement with PayPal Credit

What IS "condition 15.4(c)" of PayPal Credit? That might give a clue about how/why that moronic letter was generated.

15. CREDIT INVESTIGATION AND REPORTING:

You authorize us to make or have made any credit, employment and income, and investigative inquiries we deem appropriate related to your application for credit, this Account, and the collection of amounts owed on this Account. You agree that we have the right to obtain credit reports on you in connection with (1) your application for this Account, (2) any potential Credit Line increase and (3) as we deem reasonably necessary to maintain and collect this Account.

...as near as I can tell, there is no 15.4, much less a 15.4(c). My guess is they tried to pull a credit inquiry and weren't allowed to because she was dead.


From my research, you can't view that specific agreement until you sign up for PayPal credit.. ie: Not just a Paypal account, but their credit portion.

From my Google-Fu this is what it does say from a user

"We may close the Credit Account and demand repayment of the full amount you owe us if you die or become of unsound mind"
 
2018-07-11 12:32:02 AM  

styckx: This kind of dumb shiat happens all the time.  Even the government is awful with it.

Just three weeks ago my grandmother was summoned to Jury Duty.   She passed away 3 years ago.


Be ready when the cops come to take her away, then arrest your aunt or new tenant.
 
2018-07-11 12:42:22 AM  

Millennium: NutWrench: "You are in breach of condition 15.4(c) of your agreement with PayPal Credit

What IS "condition 15.4(c)" of PayPal Credit? That might give a clue about how/why that moronic letter was generated.

15. CREDIT INVESTIGATION AND REPORTING:

You authorize us to make or have made any credit, employment and income, and investigative inquiries we deem appropriate related to your application for credit, this Account, and the collection of amounts owed on this Account. You agree that we have the right to obtain credit reports on you in connection with (1) your application for this Account, (2) any potential Credit Line increase and (3) as we deem reasonably necessary to maintain and collect this Account.

...as near as I can tell, there is no 15.4, much less a 15.4(c). My guess is they tried to pull a credit inquiry and weren't allowed to because she was dead.


The issue is that it's probably a different agreement for the EU.

I went to this page, which looked promising:
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp​/​ua/legalhub-full

However, clicking on the link for the paypal credit agreement lead me to a login screen, and then after I logged in it said the page didn't exist. Probably because I'm in the US.

I highly suspect if you were in the same country, you could read it.
 
2018-07-11 12:56:33 AM  

koder: Mr Durdle said a member of PayPal's staff had told him there were three possible explanations:
a bug
a bad letter template
human error

deadbeat.doctx?


FTFY
 
2018-07-11 01:56:03 AM  
"I'm in a reasonable place at the moment - I've got quite a level head on my shoulders - and am quite capable of dealing with paperwork like this," Mr Durdle said.
"But I'm a member of the charity Widowed and Young, and I've seen first-hand in there how a letter like this or something like it can completely derail somebody.
"If I'm going to make any fuss about this at all, it's to make sure that PayPal - or any other organisation that might do this kind of insensitive thing - recognises the damage they can cause the recently bereaved."


Wow, good for this guy. I'm sure he's pissed and still hurting, but his main focus seems to be making sure this kind of bs doesn't happen to anybody else.
 
2018-07-11 02:25:48 AM  
I resisted using PayPal for a long time (security concerns). First time using it, card number used all over Russia. went to the bank and got a new card, and got my stuff (as ordered). haven't used it since.
 
2018-07-11 03:08:00 AM  

styckx: This kind of dumb shiat happens all the time.  Even the government is awful with it.

Just three weeks ago my grandmother was summoned to Jury Duty.   She passed away 3 years ago.


My grandma got summoned for jury 13 years after her death. Was never called up once when alive for 77 years.
 
2018-07-11 03:12:48 AM  
Ugh. I'm one of the people who cause so many of the problems mentioned in this thread.
Government sending summons to dead people? Not exactly what I do, but close enough. Our systems aren't connected directly to the centralised system where status(ie, dead yet?) and current name is registered. We can of course update against the central database but costs money, and more importantly, is a real hassle.
And we send loads of automated emails. Usually based on some status changes  Usually containing some text from some connected table in the database, or a comment field. So far we haven't to my knowledge sent an email to anyone about their death, but I know that it will happen
 
2018-07-11 04:06:49 AM  

Farxist Marxist: Their systems are to blame. It's one of many examples of how not having a human to check automated messages causes grief and embarrassment. Same with automated media - some of the stuff that Google picks up and sends to its news page is downright idiotic. Job boards that advertise for available positions in the same city name but different countries. Utility companies sending out bills for billions of dollars and cutting off service because the system initiates it without human intervention. And fixing it is the real challenge because when you finally get a human to answer your call they don't have the ability to fix the issue, can't understand you, or comprehend why getting a billion dollar electrical bill would upset you.


Yes. It is a very obvious risk, to which the general response might be characterised as "fark you."

When you automate a process, the basic objective of that automation is to increase efficiency of the process; therefore, you must omit or ignore low-frequency cases, as including these will cause the whole automated process to be less efficient, rendering the exercise pointless.

This should be obvious to all parties selling the automated process, but the problem is not really surmountable, so they try to pretend it doesn't exist, or that the answer is cleverer automation - hence the need to sell AI.

/Or maybe I'm just paranoid
//Someone should make a film about this
///Maybe name it after a large South American county for no obvious reason
 
2018-07-11 04:19:42 AM  
I had a roommate, Jim, who passed away.  For several months, I continued to get his bank statements.  So, I sent a letter to the bank asking them to send the bank statements to his mother's address.  A few weeks later I received a letter from the bank that said "Dear Jim, we recently were informed of your passing.  We're sorry to hear that.  To change your address, please come into any of our branches..."
 
2018-07-11 07:14:01 AM  
The computer did that auto layoff thing to everybody.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-07-11 08:05:59 AM  
I can see needing a death certificate, but PayPal also wants a copy of your will?

Fark that.
 
2018-07-11 10:19:27 AM  
Fark PayPal...goddamn thieving bastards.
 
2018-07-11 10:30:18 AM  

hunh: I resisted using PayPal for a long time (security concerns). First time using it, card number used all over Russia


You know that wasn't actually Paypal, right?
 
2018-07-11 11:26:57 AM  

grossmont: I had a roommate, Jim, who passed away.  For several months, I continued to get his bank statements.  So, I sent a letter to the bank asking them to send the bank statements to his mother's address.  A few weeks later I received a letter from the bank that said "Dear Jim, we recently were informed of your passing.  We're sorry to hear that.  To change your address, please come into any of our branches..."


The Postmaster Inspector General would like to know why you are opening Jim's mail.
 
2018-07-11 11:26:58 AM  

PunGent: I can see needing a death certificate, but PayPal also wants a copy of your will?

Fark that.


Just because you die doesn't get you off the hook with creditors. They want it to know who the executor of the will is and assets. When you die creditors get first dibs including info on the estate. There is a reason mortgage's word origin is death promise.
 
2018-07-11 11:30:23 AM  
New Money my ass.
 
2018-07-11 03:02:41 PM  
PayPal are scum, and *idiots*. I bought something and opened an account a dozen or 16 years ago. Then I didn't buy anything through them for years. Then I relocated.

The card I'd given them expired, and they won't let me update the information, and the only way they will is if they can send a code to the email address I had three email addresses and a relocation or two ago.

"Ahhh, what a maroon" - B. Bunny
 
2018-07-11 04:06:47 PM  

Intrepid00: PunGent: I can see needing a death certificate, but PayPal also wants a copy of your will?

Fark that.

Just because you die doesn't get you off the hook with creditors. They want it to know who the executor of the will is and assets. When you die creditors get first dibs including info on the estate. There is a reason mortgage's word origin is death promise.


REAL credit card companies don't get your will...therefore, PayPal doesn't need it.

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca​r​d-news/6-steps-when-credit-card-holder​-dies.php

And Capitol One doesn't even require a death certificate: https://www.capitalone.c​om/contact/faq​/estates/

They seem to be doing OK financially...
 
2018-07-11 04:29:16 PM  

PunGent: Intrepid00: PunGent: I can see needing a death certificate, but PayPal also wants a copy of your will?

Fark that.

Just because you die doesn't get you off the hook with creditors. They want it to know who the executor of the will is and assets. When you die creditors get first dibs including info on the estate. There is a reason mortgage's word origin is death promise.

REAL credit card companies don't get your will...therefore, PayPal doesn't need it.

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-car​d-news/6-steps-when-credit-card-holder​-dies.php

And Capitol One doesn't even require a death certificate: https://www.capitalone.co​m/contact/faq/estates/

They seem to be doing OK financially...


That is a getting started list. When you die all your shiat becomes up for grabs and listed as part of the court proceedings to close out the estate. By the way, part of that process is recording your will in court records as public records if you haven't already. A will isn't private once you die.
 
2018-07-11 06:28:16 PM  

TheCableGuy: grossmont: I had a roommate, Jim, who passed away.  For several months, I continued to get his bank statements.  So, I sent a letter to the bank asking them to send the bank statements to his mother's address.  A few weeks later I received a letter from the bank that said "Dear Jim, we recently were informed of your passing.  We're sorry to hear that.  To change your address, please come into any of our branches..."

The Postmaster Inspector General would like to know why you are opening Jim's mail.


Maybe he was also named Jim.
 
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