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(Washington Post)   Nigeria home to fewer Princes than previously thought   ( divider line
    More: Obvious, extreme poverty, Poverty, World Poverty Clock, Poverty threshold, Africa, extreme poverty sit, extreme poverty threshold, Poverty Clock researchers  
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4662 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jul 2018 at 2:35 PM (36 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2018-07-10 12:45:41 PM  
I thought there were Two Princes.

Spin Doctors - Two Princes
Youtube wsdy_rct6uo

You're welcome for the earworm
2018-07-10 02:42:45 PM  
Not surprising. I've been to Nigeria twice, in 1976 and 1981. It was farking poor even then, with the exception of the petro-rich (at that time). Corruption is endemic in most African countries, and Nigeria is one of the biggest offenders. The "dash" (bribe) is used routinely in all levels of society. Every leader has looted the treasury and moved their money offshore. When the Nigerian Prince scam arose I was mildly amused that it became so successful. Kidnapping is also a now means of employment I understand. All this and a crushing population, tribal conflicts and stupid religious hatred between a Muslim north and "christian" south make it entirely undesirable. So the poor are trapped in a vicious cycle of poverty and conflict.

My parents (RIP) lived there for 22 years as medical missionaries. My dad had a shotgun blast give him a haircut at a roadside robbery, and my mom almost died from a tropical disease. Twice.

You don't travel to Nigeria by accident.
2018-07-10 02:51:27 PM  
All those paupers are actually just princes in disguise.
2018-07-10 02:52:49 PM  
Nigeria: 5.07 - 5.5 births / woman
India: 2.3 - 2.43 births / woman

You're not helping yourselves.
2018-07-10 02:53:17 PM  

Congratulations to India. Sort of congratulations to Nigeria because I know most "developing" countries are doing well in the fight against the most extreme poverty.

I just finished reading a great book by Hans Rosling (who died of cancer last year, sadly, for he was one of the most wonderful and productive human peoples alive)., his daughter and his son.

It is entitle Factfulness and it is the culmination of a long life in medicine, statistics and development. I recommend it as a vital, life-changing and POV changing book to everybody who gives a damn about the world.

He is, of course, the co-Founder with his son and daughter of Gapminder, the online website with great data and graphics about all aspects of the world.

India will become more populous than China before the century is out. Nigeria may be almost as populous as the USA by then. Both countries are key to the future of humanity but as Rosling indefatigably pointed out for much of his life, things may be bad, but they are definitely improving at a remarkable pace.

For example, in 1952 or thereabouts 11.4 million babies died. In 2016, that figure was down to 4.2 million.

It is sad that so many die, but look at the number of children who no longer die in infancy and the world looks more hopeful.

Read that book. I paid for the hard-cover ($27.50 CDN) but you can get it online for about a third of that (Kindle) or just go to the website and spend a happy day playing with animated graphs that show you how much progress we are making in this Vale of Tears.
2018-07-10 02:57:26 PM  
Some things you do not know about Hans Rosling.

He was a doctor in many poor African countries and learned more than he taught, which was surely a lot.

He was able to swallow a sword and would often do so after lectures and TED talks, just to show that all things are more possible than you think they are.

He was nearly killed by a gang of angry villagers with machetes in Africa (because he neglected to explain in sufficient detail what he was there to do for them) but a brave, smart, probably illiterate village woman stood up for him and convinced the men with machetes to fade away, will she started headed a line of villagers willing to give blood samples to fight a horrible African disease I am almost certain you have never heard of.

These are teasers but the book is full of ideas and facts and teaches us to be factful in the way Buddhism teaches mindfulness.

2018-07-10 02:58:47 PM  

BigNumber12: Nigeria: 5.07 - 5.5 births / woman
India: 2.3 - 2.43 births / woman

You're not helping yourselves.

You also have to factor in how many of those are girls that make it to fertile age. Lots of dead babies in poverty. Or eaten.
2018-07-10 02:59:13 PM  

kbronsito: All those paupers are actually just princes in disguise.

You have said a mouthful. You can tell by the way they carry themselves. You can tell by the way they can turn a bit of cloth and a few stolen copper wires into the costume of a queen or prince.

Verily, I have seen princes walk and beggers ride, and by beggers I mean buggers, and by buggers I mean Donald J. Trump and Co.
2018-07-10 03:02:14 PM  
So there are no purple rains down in Africa?
2018-07-10 03:07:17 PM  
Amazing how even a pittance of the money made off oil in their country would solve this problem, but nooooo....
2018-07-10 03:16:22 PM  

BigNumber12: Nigeria: 5.07 - 5.5 births / woman
India: 2.3 - 2.43 births / woman

You're not helping yourselves.

Are you sure? In Rosling's book (above) I read about Iran, which in the space of 15 years got its births per women down from 6 to 3. It took my own ancestors three hundred years plus to do the same. They were French Canadians. In 1730 they had 6.5 children per women versus 6 in France. In the 1960s, my own family was down to three children, which was already more than median.

Six is the number of children the poorest people have to have so that two of them live to reproduce. When you get rich, you can make do with two children and a few young hard-working immigrants from some place like Guatemala, Santo Domingo or Mexico.

Nigeria is one of the wealthier countries in Africa now. They have people making automobile parts for Mercedes Benz cars using 15th century casting technology. But they also have skyscrapers and traffic jams.

Don't rely on your parent's experience. It is out of date now.

Nigeria has moved from level one (Rosling) of incomes below $2 a day per capita, to level two (incomes from $2 to $4 per capital and onwards to level three $4 to $8 per capita. They may be pushing on to the levels where you find most people in middle income countries, level four, $8 to $16 per capita and $16 to $32 per capita or even rich world incomes, such as $32 to $64 a day, $64 to $128 a day, and so forth.

Think like Rosling and you will understand that things are still bad for much of the world, but are getting better every day and every way, if the stupid rich don't fark things up for the rest of us, including the really smart rich people.

Do you realize how long it took India to get it's births per woman down to 2 or 3 children? Well, I will give you a broad hint:  we just did the same in Canada during my lifetime. In the USA, you are down to 1.9 births per woman and would start to disappear if you didn't have a lot of hispanics, blacks and immigrants still breeding above the replacement level.

We are, in Canada and the USA, immigrant nations and we depend on not only their willingness and ability to work and create wealth for themselves and everybody else, but we have only recently followed the path that China, India, Nigeria, and Indonesia are on now.

Everything is happening faster. Iran took 15 years to do what Canada and the USA took three centuries to do.

Go on them. Fewer children mean that women can get educations and better living conditions and work and once you have those, you don't need six children (four dead). You can put everything into 2 or 3 living children and be confident they will be there to support you in your old age.

The world life expectancy is now over 70 (most countries). And we are not the only Baby Boomers who are going to need more immigrants and more Millennials and their children to carry on in our old age.
2018-07-10 03:17:21 PM  

whidbey: Amazing how even a pittance of the money made off oil in their country would solve this problem, but nooooo....

Wait, you mean all the money the wealthy are stealing off the oil money is not trickling down to the poor?
2018-07-10 03:18:47 PM  
I am reminded of the Red & Stimpy song "Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy". Not that I am prone to singing it in public, but here's a wicked thought:  if you have brothers and sisters with small children, learn it and teach it to your nieces and nephews when your siblings aren't looking.

Pure evil. Hey, a single guy has to have some fun.
2018-07-10 03:22:04 PM  

BigNumber12: Nigeria: 5.07 - 5.5 births / woman
India: 2.3 - 2.43 births / woman

You're not helping yourselves.

Poverty and high birth rates have been hand-in-hand everywhere throughout history. Always. They aren't doing anything different than every society everywhere in all of history.
2018-07-10 03:22:25 PM  
I'm betting they're in a dead heat in pollution.
2018-07-10 03:36:47 PM  
It would be cheaper if they just got cable tv.
2018-07-10 03:37:22 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: I'm betting they're in a dead heat in pollution.

At least one of India's states has now banned plastic bags.
2018-07-10 05:43:30 PM  

nmrsnr: I thought there were Two Princes.


You're welcome for the earworm

For planting that earworm, you deserve to stub your toe really hard tonight, then find out you're out of milk right when you go to make a bowl of cereal.
2018-07-10 06:25:35 PM  

Yellow Beard: It would be cheaper if they just got cable tv.​i​nging-down-indias-birth-rate-get-more-​women-to-watch-soap-operas/

India did it. I actually recall some government programs to get out basic tv out to the rural areas back to lower birth rates back in the day. Not sure how the rate reductions compare between cable and basic tv but both were shown to help.
2018-07-10 06:30:43 PM  
PS. That article seems to be more about the content women watch and correlates television role models with smaller families seemingly encouraging use of birth control. But I've seen studies that correlate all television with lower rates just because it gives poor people something to do when they're bored other than fark.
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