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(Fredericksburg)   Beltway Sniper could conceivably be granted parole at some point   ( fredericksburg.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Supreme Court of the United States, new sentencing hearings, Murder, Supreme Court, U.S. Supreme Court, John Allen Muhammad, Malvo, United States Solicitor General  
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3155 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jun 2018 at 5:46 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-06-21 07:08:53 PM  
I'm okay with this.
 
2018-06-21 07:10:31 PM  
Probably not the one they executed.  No fan of the death penalty, just sayin.
 
2018-06-21 08:16:36 PM  
So is this where I come to hear that a 17-year-old is a child incapable of making decisions and was merely the unwitting pawn of an older man?
 
2018-06-21 11:32:18 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: So is this where I come to hear that a 17-year-old is a child incapable of making decisions and was merely the unwitting pawn of an older man?


Well you will also hear how he should be executed, maybe that murderers much younger than him should be killed.
Probably some veiled racism and some unveiled racism.
 
2018-06-22 04:10:09 AM  
Hell, Trump could pardon him.
...
 
2018-06-22 05:31:03 AM  
I don't believe in the death penalty, but I DO believe that a seventeen year old is quite capable of knowing murder is wrong.  Perhaps he was lead astray; but, do we really want someone out on the streets who murders people just because someone else says it's a good idea?
 
2018-06-22 05:37:15 AM  
bigfatbuddhist:

After ten years or so, it's a rare person who goes back to jail for more crime, and of those it's usually addiction related (a vice you can easily acquire behind bars)  or someone so damaged they won't beat the appeals process.
 
2018-06-22 05:54:46 AM  
Or he could just get shanked in a prison bathroom. Is there some kind of gofundme that maybe pays off in cigarettes and honey buns to whatever enterprising con would like to file down a toothbrush and use it to ventilate this psycho?
 
2018-06-22 05:57:13 AM  

doglover: bigfatbuddhist:

After ten years or so, it's a rare person who goes back to jail for more crime, and of those it's usually addiction related (a vice you can easily acquire behind bars)  or someone so damaged they won't beat the appeals process.


He seems like a good candidate for a cult or a terrorist group... or, worse... THE MORMONS!!!
 
2018-06-22 06:03:40 AM  
"scary"

yeahokay.mp4
 
2018-06-22 06:12:24 AM  

bigfatbuddhist: I don't believe in the death penalty, but I DO believe that a seventeen year old is quite capable of knowing murder is wrong.  Perhaps he was lead astray; but, do we really want someone out on the streets who murders people just because someone else says it's a good idea?


Burma shave?
 
2018-06-22 06:14:14 AM  

Munden: bigfatbuddhist: I don't believe in the death penalty, but I DO believe that a seventeen year old is quite capable of knowing murder is wrong.  Perhaps he was lead astray; but, do we really want someone out on the streets who murders people just because someone else says it's a good idea?

Burma shave?


Yeah, I've been busy with my own site.  You can't possibly miss those poems...
 
2018-06-22 06:24:38 AM  
I didn't see anything in that article that made me think it plausible he'll ever be released. Sounds like he has won the the right to be sentenced to the same sentence again, and even if it was reduced, he has many other life sentences to serve instead. The court ruling is newsworthy, but that article seemingly existed only as an excuse to ask one of the victims "What if they let him out?!!" and hope for a a juicy response.
 
2018-06-22 06:28:03 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Or he could just get shanked in a prison bathroom. Is there some kind of gofundme that maybe pays off in cigarettes and honey buns to whatever enterprising con would like to file down a toothbrush and use it to ventilate this psycho?


Or, we could just keep him in prison. These are just 4 of the multiple life sentences that are being vacated.

I'm not in favor of the death penalty carried out by the state, or some random guy with a shank in prison.
 
2018-06-22 06:36:12 AM  
Charlie Manson was, too. Didn't mean he was ever going to get it.
 
2018-06-22 06:40:03 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Prank Call of Cthulhu: Or he could just get shanked in a prison bathroom. Is there some kind of gofundme that maybe pays off in cigarettes and honey buns to whatever enterprising con would like to file down a toothbrush and use it to ventilate this psycho?

Or, we could just keep him in prison. These are just 4 of the multiple life sentences that are being vacated.

I'm not in favor of the death penalty carried out by the state, or some random guy with a shank in prison.


Whatever it takes to keep him away from society. I'm OK with him riding the lighting, taking a shiv, or being locked up forever, forced to eat loaf.
 
2018-06-22 06:53:50 AM  
If he gets out, which he won't, I would not be surprised if a family member of one of his victims finds and kills him.
 
2018-06-22 06:54:51 AM  

bigfatbuddhist: I don't believe in the death penalty, but I DO believe that a seventeen year old is quite capable of knowing murder is wrong.  Perhaps he was lead astray; but, do we really want someone out on the streets who murders people just because someone else says it's a good idea?


THIS. read his trial transcripts. He is evil but the liberal apologists here (who consider him an "adult" for all other purposes) think he should be given a chance to kill again. He has not been the model prisoner and, with any luck, he will be given the death penalty.

/subby
 
2018-06-22 07:09:06 AM  
Hmm, doesn't seem fair.
 
2018-06-22 07:16:18 AM  
If he doesn't get out then does that mean we dodged a bullet?
 
2018-06-22 07:17:40 AM  
My brain tried really hard to convince me that Brent Spiner might some day be eligible for parole.
 
2018-06-22 07:19:32 AM  

Aar1012: If he doesn't get out then does that mean we dodged a bullet?


No. WHEN he doesn't get out, it means it's a day ending in "y".
 
2018-06-22 07:20:35 AM  

Ostman: My brain tried really hard to convince me that Brent Spiner might some day be eligible for parole.


More likely than this guy - and Spiner isn't even in jail.
 
2018-06-22 07:23:03 AM  

ghostfacekillahrabbit: I didn't see anything in that article that made me think it plausible he'll ever be released. Sounds like he has won the the right to be sentenced to the same sentence again, and even if it was reduced, he has many other life sentences to serve instead. The court ruling is newsworthy, but that article seemingly existed only as an excuse to ask one of the victims "What if they let him out?!!" and hope for a a juicy response.


Pearl clutching racial panic. Makes good press in the boonies.
"Scary Negro soon to be loosed upon your daughters!!!" always sells the soap flakes.
 
2018-06-22 07:24:59 AM  
I don't have any problems with the kid's sentence as originally decided, or his partner's. But I also don't have any problems with reexamining the kid's sentence, some 15 years later. He knew exactly what he was doing, but it is true that he was essentially in this guy's cult of one. I don't think that's likely to change the outcome, but there is no harm in looking again.

(Full disclosure: the Beltway Sniper struck like a block from my workplace at the time. About an hour later, not knowing what had happened, I almost got into an accident with a cop on serious edge at that very intersection. I think I almost had a weapon pulled on me, and given the circumstances, I can't even blame the guy).
 
2018-06-22 07:33:15 AM  

spongeboob: Benevolent Misanthrope: So is this where I come to hear that a 17-year-old is a child incapable of making decisions and was merely the unwitting pawn of an older man?

Well you will also hear how he should be executed, maybe that murderers much younger than him should be killed.
Probably some veiled racism and some unveiled racism.


Name checks out.
 
2018-06-22 07:34:40 AM  

Lee451: bigfatbuddhist: I don't believe in the death penalty, but I DO believe that a seventeen year old is quite capable of knowing murder is wrong.  Perhaps he was lead astray; but, do we really want someone out on the streets who murders people just because someone else says it's a good idea?

THIS. read his trial transcripts. He is evil but the liberal apologists here (who consider him an "adult" for all other purposes) think he should be given a chance to kill again. He has not been the model prisoner and, with any luck, he will be given the death penalty.

/subby


Where did you see that he hasn't been a model prisoner? Last I heard about him, he spends his time writing apology letters and reading the Bible.

I feel a little bad for him because of that my friend told me about him - she was one of three legal interns on his defense team. She was adamant that he had been completely and absolutely brainwashed and manipulated by Mohammed. Neither of us are flaming liberals so *shrug*
/For the record, I was at Ponderosa that night so I'm not talking like someone who's completely removed. We ate dinner and after we got home, we looked at the news and saw what we had just missed.
 
2018-06-22 07:34:49 AM  

Lee451: bigfatbuddhist: I don't believe in the death penalty, but I DO believe that a seventeen year old is quite capable of knowing murder is wrong.  Perhaps he was lead astray; but, do we really want someone out on the streets who murders people just because someone else says it's a good idea?

THIS. read his trial transcripts. He is evil but the liberal apologists here (who consider him an "adult" for all other purposes) think he should be given a chance to kill again. He has not been the model prisoner and, with any luck, he will be given the death penalty.

/subby


Nesting assumptions.  It's like a strawman turducken.  I'm almost impressed.
 
2018-06-22 07:36:35 AM  
What, he's dead. Executed long time back almost a decade.
Oh, the thrall.
 
2018-06-22 07:40:34 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: Lee451: bigfatbuddhist: I don't believe in the death penalty, but I DO believe that a seventeen year old is quite capable of knowing murder is wrong.  Perhaps he was lead astray; but, do we really want someone out on the streets who murders people just because someone else says it's a good idea?

THIS. read his trial transcripts. He is evil but the liberal apologists here (who consider him an "adult" for all other purposes) think he should be given a chance to kill again. He has not been the model prisoner and, with any luck, he will be given the death penalty.

/subby

Nesting assumptions.  It's like a strawman turducken.  I'm almost impressed.


How do you think I feel?  I'm a liberal and really didn't think I was helping anyone's point...
 
2018-06-22 07:47:09 AM  

jso2897: ghostfacekillahrabbit: I didn't see anything in that article that made me think it plausible he'll ever be released. Sounds like he has won the the right to be sentenced to the same sentence again, and even if it was reduced, he has many other life sentences to serve instead. The court ruling is newsworthy, but that article seemingly existed only as an excuse to ask one of the victims "What if they let him out?!!" and hope for a a juicy response.

Pearl clutching racial panic. Makes good press in the boonies.
"Scary Negro soon to be loosed upon your daughters!!!" always sells the soap flakes.


When the only tool you have is the hammer of racism accusations, every issue looks like a nail.

I mean, it's reflexive at this point, is it not?  "Guy in jail is black, anyone opposed to releasing him must be a racist, and damn the actual facts of the case because actual justice is irrelevant when social justice is at stake".

This person killed a number of people.  I don't have a problem with him spending the rest of his natural life in jail.  But if the law says he gets a parole hearing, so be it, he should have the same rights to a *FAIR* parole hearing as anyone else.  And if competent authorities decide he's not a risk to society and that the sentence he served was proportionate to his crime, then he absolutely should be released.

In fact, I'd be more upset if the parole process was basically a sham.  Like the process in Norway for Anders Breivik.  Personally, I think Breivik should have been executed, but I can understand why some countries don't have the death penalty.  But at a minimum they should have a "Life without the possibility of parole", and Norway doesn't even have that.  Maximum sentence under Norwegian law is 20 years, but they're never going to release Breivik, and that's *WRONG*.  Don't get me wrong:  He should die in prison for what he did, and to my mind, the sooner the better.  But if the law says the maximum sentence is 20 years, then at the end of 20 years they should release you.  The government must follow the law, or it loses its legitimacy.

And so I see it here:  If the law says he gets a parole hearing, if they deny it to him, then the government loses some of its legitimate claim to exercise authority.
 
2018-06-22 08:12:02 AM  

spongeboob: Benevolent Misanthrope: So is this where I come to hear that a 17-year-old is a child incapable of making decisions and was merely the unwitting pawn of an older man?

Well you will also hear how he should be executed, maybe that murderers much younger than him should be killed.
Probably some veiled racism and some unveiled racism.


Yes, I'm sure that it's the latent racism in people that have caused them to hate this person and not the month long murder spree.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-06-22 08:13:10 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Or he could just get shanked in a prison bathroom. Is there some kind of gofundme that maybe pays off in cigarettes and honey buns to whatever enterprising con would like to file down a toothbrush and use it to ventilate this psycho?


So you're encouraging murder? Idiot.
 
2018-06-22 08:16:37 AM  
I've met this guy before. He is housed at Red Onion State Prison and will talk to anyone who walks past his cell. He's also clearly not right in the head
 
2018-06-22 08:26:41 AM  
I lived in the MD/DC/VA area when this was happening. I know or have been to many of the locations where people were shot and killed and I know the rest area where they were found. It was a scary few weeks while this was going down and yes, sometimes I was scared to leave the house because most of the murders were close to home, my friend's and relative's homes.

Keep him in jail. Why the F is this even an issue? He went around with an accomplice shooting/killing innocent people. They both knew exactly what they were doing and therefore must pay the consequences for it.
 
2018-06-22 08:37:06 AM  
Guy was an accomplice to serial murder. I can't imagine any circumstance where I'd support his parole.
 
2018-06-22 08:43:02 AM  

way south: spongeboob: Benevolent Misanthrope: So is this where I come to hear that a 17-year-old is a child incapable of making decisions and was merely the unwitting pawn of an older man?

Well you will also hear how he should be executed, maybe that murderers much younger than him should be killed.
Probably some veiled racism and some unveiled racism.

Yes, I'm sure that it's the latent racism in people that have caused them to hate this person and not the month long murder spree.

[img.fark.net image 552x667]


So there are no racists on Fark?
 
2018-06-22 08:49:27 AM  

doglover: bigfatbuddhist:

After ten years or so, it's a rare person who goes back to jail for more crime, and of those it's usually addiction related (a vice you can easily acquire behind bars)  or someone so damaged they won't beat the appeals process.


I disagree.  There are many who serve prison time who become repeat offenders.  Prison doesn't rehab, it just keeps dangerous people away from us.  In this kid's case, he has spent a good chunk of time learning from much older and experienced criminals.  And if their idea is correct that he was easily influenced by his mentor and that's why he killed, then he would be easily influenced by a bunch of bored cons.

He would probably leave prison, not adapt very well and do something to get sent back.
 
2018-06-22 08:50:42 AM  

steklo: He went around with an accomplice shooting/killing innocent people. They both knew exactly what they were doing and therefore must pay the consequences for it.


IIRC they thought they were auditioning for Al Qaeda.  They even got the MoCo police chief to read a statement:

Like
A
Duck
In a
Noose
 
2018-06-22 08:58:53 AM  

Arcangela: Lee451: bigfatbuddhist: I don't believe in the death penalty, but I DO believe that a seventeen year old is quite capable of knowing murder is wrong.  Perhaps he was lead astray; but, do we really want someone out on the streets who murders people just because someone else says it's a good idea?

THIS. read his trial transcripts. He is evil but the liberal apologists here (who consider him an "adult" for all other purposes) think he should be given a chance to kill again. He has not been the model prisoner and, with any luck, he will be given the death penalty.

/subby

Where did you see that he hasn't been a model prisoner? Last I heard about him, he spends his time writing apology letters and reading the Bible.

I feel a little bad for him because of that my friend told me about him - she was one of three legal interns on his defense team. She was adamant that he had been completely and absolutely brainwashed and manipulated by Mohammed. Neither of us are flaming liberals so *shrug*
/For the record, I was at Ponderosa that night so I'm not talking like someone who's completely removed. We ate dinner and after we got home, we looked at the news and saw what we had just missed.


Practically every inmate/prisoner "finds god", writes apology letters, tries to join rehab groups, tells the judge they've learned their lesson, etc.  These are cons... they are good at what they do.  They have nothing but time to think up ways to get out.  And they hope for naive sympathetic types to believe them and help them.

We also need to seriously consider, as a society, that 18 years old is not a definite divide between criminal and just misguided.  Teenagers are raping, stealing and killing without remorse.  Until society fixes itself, people need to be judged on what they do.... not just age.
 
2018-06-22 09:20:26 AM  

tukatz: I disagree.


Well who the fark are you?
 
2018-06-22 09:23:47 AM  

spongeboob: way south: spongeboob: Benevolent Misanthrope: So is this where I come to hear that a 17-year-old is a child incapable of making decisions and was merely the unwitting pawn of an older man?

Well you will also hear how he should be executed, maybe that murderers much younger than him should be killed.
Probably some veiled racism and some unveiled racism.

Yes, I'm sure that it's the latent racism in people that have caused them to hate this person and not the month long murder spree.

[img.fark.net image 552x667]

So there are no racists on Fark?


Of course there are racists on fark. This is why latent racism trickles down into every conversation regardless of whether it has anything to do with the subject or not.
Cooking threads are the most racist conversations here.
Threads demanding justice after a mass murder, probably a little less racist.

/Everyone on fark is racist.
/Absolutely Everyone.
 
2018-06-22 09:26:07 AM  
Let's step back. Nothing is happening right now.

The conservative tack right now is to have the re-sentencing hearing. Even if he ends up with parole eligibility, Maryland has dibs and he goes nowhere.

Was he manipulated? Of course. Is he where he is supposed to be? Absolutely.
 
2018-06-22 09:50:56 AM  

spongeboob: Benevolent Misanthrope: So is this where I come to hear that a 17-year-old is a child incapable of making decisions and was merely the unwitting pawn of an older man?

Well you will also hear how he should be executed, maybe that murderers much younger than him should be killed.
Probably some veiled racism and some unveiled racism.


Honestly, people are subject to the consequences of their actions, as they should be. If they make a choice to do something evil that harms others, and in the effort to stop them and prevent harm to innocent folks the consequence is their death, then I have very little sympathy for them, nor do I feel particularly bad or guilty that they died. I do feel bad that the person's choices resulted in their death, since in many cases their choices/path could have been changed. But, just like driving drunk and dying in a wreck because of it...it's not society's fault, it's not the booze's fault, it's not the bartender's fault...it's yours (and anyone who directly participated in your choices), because YOU made the choice.

As far as the kid goes, he did an evil thing, he was caught without incident, and society decided that the consequences of his actions should be removal from society for a period of time. Hopefully he's learned not to do evil again, and hopefully he won't cause a problem. If he does, I hope that he doesn't choose to be an asshole and require others to choose between the safety of innocents and his life. If he does, and it results in his death, then, I feel sorry for the guy who was forced to act by some farkstick being an asshole, and I hope no innocent people get hurt in the process.
 
2018-06-22 09:59:41 AM  
I will be very surprised if he ever gets paroled.

/I'm too old to be shocked by anything
//Except electricity, that is
 
2018-06-22 10:03:50 AM  

tukatz: doglover: bigfatbuddhist:

After ten years or so, it's a rare person who goes back to jail for more crime, and of those it's usually addiction related (a vice you can easily acquire behind bars)  or someone so damaged they won't beat the appeals process.

I disagree. There are many who serve prison time who become repeat offenders.  Prison doesn't rehab, it just keeps dangerous people away from us.  In this kid's case, he has spent a good chunk of time learning from much older and experienced criminals.  And if their idea is correct that he was easily influenced by his mentor and that's why he killed, then he would be easily influenced by a bunch of bored cons.

He would probably leave prison, not adapt very well and do something to get sent back.


With...with what?  Statistics?  Math?  The existence of numbers?  The philosophical concept of a fixed immutable truth when interpretation of reality is determined by inherently subjective perception incapable of being proven to match between any two separate sources?
 
2018-06-22 10:08:06 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: So is this where I come to hear that a 17-year-old is a child incapable of making decisions and was merely the unwitting pawn of an older man?


spongeboob: Well you will also hear how he should be executed, maybe that murderers much younger than him should be killed.


Is it okay if I offer something in the middle?  The world isn't so black and white.  At 17 he is not fully developmentally developed.  Now I understand you had full control of your mental capacities at 17, Benevolent Misanthrope.  You had a full adult understanding of the world and you're amazing, good for you.  But your average everyday classic teenager is still f*cking stupid.  They think they're invincible and see everything in such polar concretes and so on.  So in part, yes he was the pawn of an actual adult.

He should know some basic right from wrong, such as killing is bad.  So he deserves a looooong jail sentence.  But he was 17 at the time -- so still f*cking stupid.  In jail he can continue his development and learning of the world and realize he was f*cking stupid, you know... rehabilitate.  Then he can sit and rot for a few decades longer as punishment because he murdered people.  But yes, at the end of all of that, if he realizes how f*cking stupid as a teenager he was, we should let him out because part he was the pawn of an even more evil adult.

And before you ask, no there's nothing magic at 18, I still believe the same there.  Turns out the law does not always make biological/medical/developmental sense.  See for instance marijuana illegal but alcohol/cigarettes OK!
 
2018-06-22 10:19:57 AM  

tukatz: We also need to seriously consider, as a society, that 18 years old is not a definite divide between criminal and just misguided


Agreed.  We should look to medicine and science to understand when people are fully mentally developed.    Did you reach full mental development at 18?  Were you able to weigh the strengths of varying arguments and come to logical conclusions as well at 18 as you are now?

tukatz: Teenagers are raping, stealing and killing without remorse.


They're also eating tide pods.
 
2018-06-22 10:38:09 AM  

formerjackman: I've met this guy before. He is housed at Red Onion State Prison and will talk to anyone who walks past his cell. He's also clearly not right in the head


I'm sure I would have a few screws loose after after living in a supermax prison for 16 years.  In his case, that's half his life and his entire adult life.
 
2018-06-22 10:45:29 AM  

bigfatbuddhist: I don't believe in the death penalty, but I DO believe that a seventeen year old is quite capable of knowing murder is wrong.  Perhaps he was lead astray; but, do we really want someone out on the streets who murders people just because someone else says it's a good idea?


No, but at the same time, treating people who dont have their own legal agency as if they did certainly isnt justice either.

If you cannot vote or enter into contracts or buy a firearm of your own accord because you are too young to know better, it is difficult to buy the argument that you should be punished as someone who can because "you're old enough to know better"...
 
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