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(Reason Magazine)   ACLU is getting sick and tired of defending free speech; thinks about calling it quits   ( reason.com) divider line
    More: Scary, free speech, First Amendment to the United States Constitution, ACLU, Freedom of speech, Hate speech, hate speech, Supreme Court of the United States, American Civil Liberties Union  
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7466 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Jun 2018 at 8:26 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-06-21 05:01:47 PM  
Finally getting tired of defending those Nazis. I'm sure this will work out fine.
 
2018-06-21 05:11:10 PM  

Destructor: Finally getting tired of defending those Nazis. I'm sure this will work out fine.


Understandable when you realize how often they would end up fighting themselves in court as they defended both the Nazi's right to express their evil freely and the folks who punch them in the face as an expression of their disapproval of that evil. Better to stand down and let nature take its course.
 
2018-06-21 05:13:27 PM  

TwoHead: Better to stand down and let nature take its course.


Alas, history shows that "Nature taking its course", especially at this point, might be government censors installed at news outlets. To... you know... curtail "fake news".
 
2018-06-21 05:14:49 PM  
Or possibly, with Trump in the White House and redcaps running roughshod over every other imaginable right, they're picking their battles and using their resources more carefully.
 
2018-06-21 05:31:07 PM  

toraque: Or possibly, with Trump in the White House and redcaps running roughshod over every other imaginable right, they're picking their battles and using their resources more carefully.


that sounds reasonable, cannot be true as the aclu only does anti-christian stuff

/s
 
2018-06-21 07:07:10 PM  
The organization need only accept that the First Amendment refers to a collective, rather than individual, right to free speech and thus refusing to defend offensive speech will not contradict their mission.
 
2018-06-21 07:07:40 PM  

Destructor: TwoHead: Better to stand down and let nature take its course.

Alas, history shows that "Nature taking its course", especially at this point, might be government censors installed at news outlets. To... you know... curtail "fake news".


Or, it could be that they are choosing to focus their resources on protecting the press instead of protecting Nazis. Hey, Nazis! If you want free representation from the ACLU, get Trump out of office.
 
2018-06-21 07:15:09 PM  

Dimensio: The organization need only accept that the First Amendment refers to a collective, rather than individual, right to free speech and thus refusing to defend offensive speech will not contradict their mission.


For sure.  It's hard to tell because the first amendment has so many commas and semicolons.  I just can't make heads or tails of it.
 
2018-06-21 07:32:41 PM  

AvoidThoseTentacles: Dimensio: The organization need only accept that the First Amendment refers to a collective, rather than individual, right to free speech and thus refusing to defend offensive speech will not contradict their mission.

For sure.  It's hard to tell because the first amendment has so many commas and semicolons.  I just can't make heads or tails of it.


The key is in the use of the word "people" within the Amendment, rather than the word "persons". "People" refers to a collective, and thus means that the rights enumerated belong to a collective rather than to individual persons.
 
2018-06-21 07:55:23 PM  

DeaH: Destructor: TwoHead: Better to stand down and let nature take its course.

Alas, history shows that "Nature taking its course", especially at this point, might be government censors installed at news outlets. To... you know... curtail "fake news".

Or, it could be that they are choosing to focus their resources on protecting the press instead of protecting Nazis. Hey, Nazis! If you want free representation from the ACLU, get Trump out of office.


Maybe. But the way I sees it, free speech is free speech; be you Nazi or honest investigative reporter.
 
2018-06-21 08:13:13 PM  
If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.
 
2018-06-21 08:28:24 PM  
You know, because reason.com is credible.
 
2018-06-21 08:28:51 PM  

bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.


Yep. They don't have A CLUe.
 
2018-06-21 08:30:35 PM  
I did Nazi that coming
 
2018-06-21 08:31:01 PM  

a particular individual: bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.

Yep. They don't have A CLUe.


You should put that in your next FWD: email or on your Facebook so the guys at the machine shop can laugh before the tariffs put you all outta work.

LOL!
 
2018-06-21 08:31:44 PM  
Libertarians showing their true colors once again.
 
2018-06-21 08:31:59 PM  

bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.


I might have more sympathy for your position if the right-wing didn't have such a hard on for the ACLU, even though it has defended some of the most despicable people on the planet, like the neo-nazis in Skokie and farking Rush Limbaugh.
 
2018-06-21 08:32:00 PM  

bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.


And if it rises to the level of stochastic terrorism?
 
2018-06-21 08:32:38 PM  
So they're getting tired of defending racist assholes? Yeah, I don't blame them.

I mean, I kinda got what they were going for with their defense of Nazis marching in heavily Jewish areas of Illinois or Klan members doing the stupid shiat Klan members do, but I never really gave a fark if Nazis were dissuaded from marching past the houses of people who survived the Holocaust or Klan members felt too scared to march through Harlem.

If the ACLU wants to spend its time and money defending decent people's First Amendment rights, I'm cool with that. If the Republican party wants to spend its time and money defending the First Amendment rights of the appalling pieces of shiat that constitute its membership, it's free to do so. Nothing stopping them from doing that.

Reason. Weird how that works.
 
2018-06-21 08:32:47 PM  

bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.


Indeed. And with unlimited resources you defend the speech of a Nazi; any Nazi. With limited resources maybe you ask if this Nazi's case will support the cause of civil liberties more than some other case.
 
2018-06-21 08:32:53 PM  

DarnoKonrad: You know, because reason.com is credible.


Really. Weed smoking Nazis can suck my dick.
 
2018-06-21 08:33:09 PM  
Looks like I'm going to have to find a new charity to fund.
 
2018-06-21 08:33:14 PM  

meatofmystery: a particular individual: bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.

Yep. They don't have A CLUe.

You should put that in your next FWD: email or on your Facebook so the guys at the machine shop can laugh before the tariffs put you all outta work.

LOL!


Lighten up, Francis. I was just making a stupid joke. Get it? A CLUe?
 
2018-06-21 08:33:15 PM  
Maybe the ACLU is getting tired of defending the speech of people who constantly denigrate them. If the Right stopped attacking the ACLU, they might have more of a stomach to help them. Sean Hannity is a prime example of the hypocrisy they have to deal with.
 
2018-06-21 08:33:48 PM  

a particular individual: meatofmystery: a particular individual: bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.

Yep. They don't have A CLUe.

You should put that in your next FWD: email or on your Facebook so the guys at the machine shop can laugh before the tariffs put you all outta work.

LOL!

Lighten up, Francis. I was just making a stupid joke. Get it? A CLUe?


i believe my response was that i got it, sweetie.
 
2018-06-21 08:34:13 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.

I might have more sympathy for your position if the right-wing didn't have such a hard on for the ACLU, even though it has defended some of the most despicable people on the planet, like the neo-nazis in Skokie and farking Rush Limbaugh.


And Trump himself.
 
2018-06-21 08:34:15 PM  

bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.


I believe in them being able to speak, but that doesn't mean the ACLU has to defend them. The ACLU is not the government censoring people, it is a non-profit who can chose the oppressed they want to defend.
 
2018-06-21 08:34:27 PM  
Why do we need free speech if only inoffensive speech is accepted?
 
2018-06-21 08:34:34 PM  

bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.


Wake me when the NRA starts defending Black Panthers in court.
 
2018-06-21 08:35:02 PM  
Temporary suspension of rights while we fight "terrorism"?  Justified!

ACLU having an internal discussion about how to balance their mission statements in a world woth literl nazis running the US government?  Hey now, not so fast...

Same as it ever was.
 
2018-06-21 08:35:40 PM  

meatofmystery: a particular individual: meatofmystery: a particular individual: bronyaur1: If you don't believe in free speech for tnose with whose ideas you abhor, you don't actually believe in free speech.

Yep. They don't have A CLUe.

You should put that in your next FWD: email or on your Facebook so the guys at the machine shop can laugh before the tariffs put you all outta work.

LOL!

Lighten up, Francis. I was just making a stupid joke. Get it? A CLUe?

i believe my response was that i got it, sweetie.


Oh. Sorry, I didn't understand what you posted.
 
2018-06-21 08:35:59 PM  

Gergesa: Why do we need free speech if only inoffensive speech is accepted?


Feel free to pry some money out of your wallet to help some Nazi asshole express his shiatty opinions. That's not against the law.
 
2018-06-21 08:37:14 PM  
The memo examined the wisdom of their Free Speech defenses. Since the wisdom of the ages boils down to Maybe, every thing should be re-examined.
 
2018-06-21 08:38:17 PM  
This was obviously written in response to Charlottesville.  The fact they went to court for them hurt their reputation and jeopardized their relationship with donors.  As well as their advocacy work.

Strangely, the extreme white.... errr.. right wing has little interest in supporting them.

Gotta pay for them boner pills and taint wipes from Alex Jones' website.
 
2018-06-21 08:38:33 PM  
This is not scary.  Only idiots like the writers at Reason don't realize or refuse to accept that the various protections in the Constitution often represent competing interests which must be balanced.
 
2018-06-21 08:38:43 PM  

Gergesa: Why do we need free speech if only inoffensive speech is accepted?


Freedom of speech means you get to say what you want. It doesn't mean anyone has to accept it.
 
2018-06-21 08:39:11 PM  
 
2018-06-21 08:39:29 PM  
I assumed this would be about wavering in commitment to (near) absolute free speech in light of the disaster that the "right" of the combined Russian/Republican lie machine to operate has led to. If that hasn't at least given you pause in the context of the Tolerance Paradox, you can't have thought about it too much.

Then I clicked, got bukakked with wharrgarbl, and realized this is the start of another anti-ACLU ratfark campaign and what a mistake I'd made.
 
2018-06-21 08:39:31 PM  

BMFPitt: Looks like I'm going to have to find a new charity to fund.


Yup. :-(
 
2018-06-21 08:39:35 PM  

Emposter: This is not scary.  Only idiots like the writers at Reason don't realize or refuse to accept that the various protections in the Constitution often represent competing interests which must be balanced.


QUIT BEING REASONABLE!!!1
 
2018-06-21 08:40:34 PM  

BeesNuts: Temporary suspension of rights while we fight "terrorism"?  Justified!

ACLU having an internal discussion about how to balance their mission statements in a world woth literl nazis running the US government?  Hey now, not so fast...

Same as it ever was.


The Right has always demanded a higher standard of behavior from the left that they themselves embrace.
 
2018-06-21 08:40:50 PM  
Nazis,I hate these guys.
Youtube 5sp3dIyNA2A
 
2018-06-21 08:41:31 PM  

Destructor: TwoHead: Better to stand down and let nature take its course.

Alas, history shows that "Nature taking its course", especially at this point, might be government censors installed at news outlets. To... you know... curtail "fake news".


You don't need that. Sinclair will just buy up all the news stations. Because "freedom of the press" means you can own all the presses.
 
2018-06-21 08:42:02 PM  

Destructor: Finally getting tired of defending those Nazis. I'm sure this will work out fine.


More like "we've got a shiat load of cases to defend, let someone else handle the nazi scum".

I'm okay with this.
 
2018-06-21 08:42:24 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Gergesa: Why do we need free speech if only inoffensive speech is accepted?

Feel free to pry some money out of your wallet to help some Nazi asshole express his shiatty opinions. That's not against the law.


I'm fine with donating to the ACLU even if it does lead to marches like in the Skokies.
 
2018-06-21 08:42:29 PM  

Destructor: DeaH: Destructor: TwoHead: Better to stand down and let nature take its course.

Alas, history shows that "Nature taking its course", especially at this point, might be government censors installed at news outlets. To... you know... curtail "fake news".

Or, it could be that they are choosing to focus their resources on protecting the press instead of protecting Nazis. Hey, Nazis! If you want free representation from the ACLU, get Trump out of office.

Maybe. But the way I sees it, free speech is free speech; be you Nazi or honest investigative reporter.


The way I see it, there are only 24 hours in a day, and so many lawyers working for the ACLU. And there are a shiat-ton of attacks on the press from the president and his toadies. And that doesn't even factor in the time they have to spend on Trump Kid Koncentration Kamps and other horrors.

Hey, Nazis, you want to be protected by the ACLU? Get Trump out of office. He's using up ALL the resources.
 
2018-06-21 08:42:45 PM  
I see it like this. Every once in awhile you defend the Nazis right to free speech and assembly just to prove the point. But some of the time, you take the opportunity to sleep in and no regrets.
 
2018-06-21 08:44:21 PM  

BMFPitt: Looks like I'm going to have to find a new charity to fund.


You seem a bit concerned about the Nazis not getting the support they need. May I suggest NAAWP?
 
2018-06-21 08:44:22 PM  
Choads like Milo and Spencer weaponized the ACLU's tendency to jump to defend any First Amendment challenge. They stuff this with their campus hate speeches and the ACLU's defense in Charlottesville was internally very divisive. They're backing up and realizing they can be more judicious about FA defenses.

Of course the racist fascists at Reason are concern trolling, but they can shut the fark up.
 
2018-06-21 08:45:00 PM  

Destructor: BMFPitt: Looks like I'm going to have to find a new charity to fund.

Yup. :-(


Yeah, I'm sure these two are big ACLU donors whose hearts are now broken by this bitter betrayal.
What a joke.
 
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