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(AZCentral)   Nothing says 'plucky' quite like a law student who has failed the bar exam six times but just keeps trying. "It's kind of like torturing yourself"   ( azcentral.com) divider line
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3593 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 May 2018 at 7:47 AM (30 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



141 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2018-05-17 12:58:30 AM  
Good for the guy. BARBRI would probably help him pass. It would probably help the school custodian pass.
 
2018-05-17 01:26:58 AM  
What makes it sad is that the Trump administration is holding a judicial nomination for him, and he's far more qualified than many of their previous nominees.
 
2018-05-17 01:43:37 AM  
For what a law degree costs, I would keep taking that farking bar exam until they told me not to come back.
 
2018-05-17 02:21:33 AM  
I hate pluck!

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-05-17 02:46:48 AM  
Michael Cohen? Is that you?
 
2018-05-17 02:59:34 AM  
During my sophomore year of college I knew that I would never pass a partial differential equations class and therefore could never get an Engineering degree. I switched majors to Economics with a Math minor (I already had enough for that).
 
2018-05-17 03:35:50 AM  

Kouta: During my sophomore year of college I knew that I would never pass a partial differential equations class and therefore could never get an Engineering degree. I switched majors to Economics with a Math minor (I already had enough for that).


Holy shiat are you me?

Organic Chem requirement killed my engineering degree. Econ and Math was more fun, anyway.
 
2018-05-17 03:59:24 AM  

Msol: Kouta: During my sophomore year of college I knew that I would never pass a partial differential equations class and therefore could never get an Engineering degree. I switched majors to Economics with a Math minor (I already had enough for that).

Holy shiat are you me?

Organic Chem requirement killed my engineering degree. Econ and Math was more fun, anyway.


Maybe. Have you taken an Econometrics class?
 
2018-05-17 06:44:55 AM  
All lawyers should be required to publish/post how many times it took them to pass the bar with their other credentials. It should also be required information (spoken, not text) on all advertising materials.
 
2018-05-17 07:46:54 AM  
My sister-in-law has taken it 3 times.  I think she said it costs about $3,000 an attempt, which, is quite a financial burden for an elementary school teacher.  I'm rooting for her but hope she doesn't become the subject of some reputation-killing article like this guy.
 
2018-05-17 07:55:25 AM  

Msol: Kouta: During my sophomore year of college I knew that I would never pass a partial differential equations class and therefore could never get an Engineering degree. I switched majors to Economics with a Math minor (I already had enough for that).

Holy shiat are you me?

Organic Chem requirement killed my engineering degree. Econ and Math was more fun, anyway.


I think that the math portion of chemistry would be the stumbling block for most people?  What about chem was challenging?
 
2018-05-17 07:55:34 AM  
I fail the bar every time, and end up pissing off some big drunk dude who accuses me of hitting on his woman.
 
2018-05-17 07:55:52 AM  

Pocket Ninja: All lawyers should be required to publish/post how many times it took them to pass the bar with their other credentials. It should also be required information (spoken, not text) on all advertising materials.


Can we charge more if we passed the first time?
 
2018-05-17 07:58:36 AM  
When I took the bar exam (many years ago) I ran into a guy who was on his fourth attempt while waiting to get into the exam room.

 After day 1, I saw him in the lobby of the hotel yelling into his phone: "They farked me again! Those bastards farked me again!"
 
2018-05-17 07:59:01 AM  
My Cousin Vinny - six times was the charm
Youtube yOFGhnr4rto
 
2018-05-17 08:00:24 AM  
A friend failed the Massachusetts bar exam at least three times that I know of. Then she decided to ditch a law career. I felt bad because she worked so hard and did well in school. She just couldn't hack it.
 
2018-05-17 08:00:28 AM  
I had to take my MCTS test 3 times, so I totally understand.
 
2018-05-17 08:02:25 AM  

MythDragon: [YouTube video: My Cousin Vinny - six times was the charm]


Bastard!  Tiny fist and all.
 
2018-05-17 08:02:27 AM  
I think subby misspelled "pigheaded".
 
2018-05-17 08:03:06 AM  
Yikes! $285,000 in student-loan debt. That could have been used for some awesome basement remodeling  and furnishing at his parents' house.
 
2018-05-17 08:03:23 AM  

WaterBuffalo: Msol: Kouta: During my sophomore year of college I knew that I would never pass a partial differential equations class and therefore could never get an Engineering degree. I switched majors to Economics with a Math minor (I already had enough for that).

Holy shiat are you me?

Organic Chem requirement killed my engineering degree. Econ and Math was more fun, anyway.

I think that the math portion of chemistry would be the stumbling block for most people?  What about chem was challenging?


For me it was the DEA investigations
 
2018-05-17 08:04:36 AM  
You know what they call a guy who takes 6 tries to pass the bar? 

(hint: it's the same thing they call the guy who finishes last in his law school class)

An attorney.

most legal work doesn't require brilliance. It requires grueling and mind numbing prep/ attention to detail. I'll take the determined grinder over inherent ability for almost every legal need.
 
OOF
2018-05-17 08:06:23 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-05-17 08:07:28 AM  
Good for him, but assuming he ever passes, I'm not sure it would be good for his career to have this article floating around the Internet.
 
2018-05-17 08:09:31 AM  
Bwaahahaha. My ex went 100,000 into debt for law school. Could not pass California bar. Now a substitute teacher.
 
2018-05-17 08:11:24 AM  
Some people just don't test well. My mom had to take the California LCSW exams several times despite having worked in her field for years and being licensed in two other states.

Lawyers - is the bar exam really that hard?
 
2018-05-17 08:15:05 AM  

8 inches: My sister-in-law has taken it 3 times.  I think she said it costs about $3,000 an attempt, which, is quite a financial burden for an elementary school teacher.  I'm rooting for her but hope she doesn't become the subject of some reputation-killing article like this guy.


The uniform bar exam actually looks to be about par as such things go - if I had a ton of time and some money to toss down a rat hole, I might go to Idaho and take it for fun, where it's only $500 for the test and it apparently has no prerequisites, like actually having gone to law school in the first place. You can just plop down your $500 and grab a seat. This is about the same as taking the FE and PE exams, which total up to about $500 in most states.

Like feckingmorons said, most of these exams have one or more cram courses available for passing the thing, that and some focused study on the terminology and a general law overview might get you past the thing, such exams are generally not for selecting the budding Preet Bhararas of the world, they're for making sure the guy actually knows what a docket is.
 
2018-05-17 08:16:11 AM  

Giant Clown Shoe: You know what they call a guy who takes 6 tries to pass the bar? 

(hint: it's the same thing they call the guy who finishes last in his law school class)

An attorney.

most legal work doesn't require brilliance. It requires grueling and mind numbing prep/ attention to detail. I'll take the determined grinder over inherent ability for almost every legal need.


QFT
 
2018-05-17 08:16:56 AM  

Nogale: Some people just don't test well. My mom had to take the California LCSW exams several times despite having worked in her field for years and being licensed in two other states.

Lawyers - is the bar exam really that hard?


IANAL (I've never used that before!) but yes. Yes it is that hard.
 
2018-05-17 08:24:16 AM  
It took both JFK Jr and Deval Patrick three times to pass.
 
2018-05-17 08:26:01 AM  
gannett-cdn.comView Full Size


Now that's what I call an enthusiastic clip path, and I've seen a few clip paths.
 
2018-05-17 08:30:06 AM  
Catch Me If You Can (2002) - Frank Abagnale comes back - end scene
Youtube ar0rK_NDErU
 
2018-05-17 08:32:55 AM  

TheCableGuy: Nogale: Some people just don't test well. My mom had to take the California LCSW exams several times despite having worked in her field for years and being licensed in two other states.

Lawyers - is the bar exam really that hard?

IANAL (I've never used that before!) but yes. Yes it is that hard.


He was talking about the bar exam
 
2018-05-17 08:34:56 AM  

ComaToast: Yikes! $285,000 in student-loan debt. That could have been used for some awesome basement remodeling  and furnishing at his parents' house.


How is a young high school graduate going to get that kind of loan?  Any kid can get a student-loan, but that same kid isn't going to even get a $5,000 home improvement loan.

feckingmorons: Good for the guy. BARBRI would probably help him pass. It would probably help the school custodian pass.


Lurking on Fark would've improved his chances.
 
2018-05-17 08:35:33 AM  

Kouta: During my sophomore year of college I knew that I would never pass a partial differential equations class and therefore could never get an Engineering degree. I switched majors to Economics with a Math minor (I already had enough for that).


I admit choosing the Computer Systems option instead of straight EE, because the idea of diffE scared me sh*tless.

Still does.
 
2018-05-17 08:36:43 AM  

Giant Clown Shoe: You know what they call a guy who takes 6 tries to pass the bar? 

(hint: it's the same thing they call the guy who finishes last in his law school class)

An attorney.

most legal work doesn't require brilliance. It requires grueling and mind numbing prep/ attention to detail. I'll take the determined grinder over inherent ability for almost every legal need.


What spooks me is how incompetent some lawyers are. Good God I have seen it in court myself. Do you know what to call an incompetent lawyer who did pass the bar?  Your Honor.
 
2018-05-17 08:38:53 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-05-17 08:39:01 AM  

Giant Clown Shoe: most legal work doesn't require brilliance. It requires grueling and mind numbing prep/ attention to detail. I'll take the determined grinder over inherent ability for almost every legal need.


As it turns out, passing standardized tests does not require brilliance or inherent ability, it requires lots and lots of studying.  You need determination to grind through all that studying, you should be a determined grinder, if you will.  If you want a good way to identify who those lawyer determined grinders are, there is a pretty farking good correlation between standardized test performance and being a determined grinder.

Otherwise, you're looking for that one person who was more determined and grinded harder than the rest but still failed the exam.  That person might exist but it's not like the world is filled with them.  I'll take my chances on whoever performed best on the standardized test.
 
2018-05-17 08:41:24 AM  

Nogale: Some people just don't test well. My mom had to take the California LCSW exams several times despite having worked in her field for years and being licensed in two other states.

Lawyers - is the bar exam really that hard?


Um, it's not so much that the topics are hard or complicated, it's just that there's a huge amount of material and it's intentionally under time limits and stress because nothing about the practice of law isn't stressful.  So, it's like, an overwhelming number of individually not that complicated subjects.
 
2018-05-17 08:45:38 AM  

erewhon: making sure the guy actually knows what a docket is.



Pfft. Even I know that.

It's where a small boat is parked.
 
2018-05-17 08:49:02 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: erewhon: making sure the guy actually knows what a docket is.


Pfft. Even I know that.

It's where a small boat is parked.


<insert (heh) subby's mom joke here>
 
OOF
2018-05-17 08:50:26 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-05-17 08:53:44 AM  
Unless Illinois changed their policy, he should not know how he scored on the test. They don't tell you your score unless you fail by one point. You either pass or fail.
 
2018-05-17 08:54:21 AM  

Pocket Ninja: All lawyers should be required to publish/post how many times it took them to pass the bar with their other credentials. It should also be required information (spoken, not text) on all advertising materials.


I passed the bar the first time in two different states and I'm a shiat lawyer.
 
2018-05-17 08:55:44 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: erewhon: making sure the guy actually knows what a docket is.


Pfft. Even I know that.

It's where a small boat is parked.


Pier reviewed and everything!
 
2018-05-17 08:57:39 AM  

WaterBuffalo: Msol: Kouta: During my sophomore year of college I knew that I would never pass a partial differential equations class and therefore could never get an Engineering degree. I switched majors to Economics with a Math minor (I already had enough for that).

Holy shiat are you me?

Organic Chem requirement killed my engineering degree. Econ and Math was more fun, anyway.

I think that the math portion of chemistry would be the stumbling block for most people?  What about chem was challenging?


Probably the mechanisms (SN1, SN2, E1, E2, etc), it's usually the mechanisms.

//got a B in organic 1, and an A in organic 2. It's not impossible, you just have to work
 
2018-05-17 09:02:18 AM  

erewhon: 8 inches: My sister-in-law has taken it 3 times.  I think she said it costs about $3,000 an attempt, which, is quite a financial burden for an elementary school teacher.  I'm rooting for her but hope she doesn't become the subject of some reputation-killing article like this guy.

The uniform bar exam actually looks to be about par as such things go - if I had a ton of time and some money to toss down a rat hole, I might go to Idaho and take it for fun, where it's only $500 for the test and it apparently has no prerequisites, like actually having gone to law school in the first place. You can just plop down your $500 and grab a seat. This is about the same as taking the FE and PE exams, which total up to about $500 in most states.

Like feckingmorons said, most of these exams have one or more cram courses available for passing the thing, that and some focused study on the terminology and a general law overview might get you past the thing, such exams are generally not for selecting the budding Preet Bhararas of the world, they're for making sure the guy actually knows what a docket is.


Your information about Idaho is incorrect.

Qualifications for Admission - Idaho Bar Commission Rule 202
Qualifications. Before receiving permission to take the bar examination and for admission to practice law in Idaho, the Applicant must:
1.  Be at least eighteen years of age;
2.  Be lawfully admitted to this country;

3.  Have, or will have received, a juris doctorate or bachelor of laws degree or an equivalent basic law degree from an Approved Law School. Submission of a law school transcript in a form satisfactory to the Board shall be considered compliance with this Rule;
4.  Have demonstrated the essential eligibility requirements to practice law pursuant to Rule 201 and have met all requirements in the Admission Rules; and
5.  Be a person of good moral character.


That's not to say you can't be a lawyer without law school, but there aren't any states where you can just sit for the exam without prerequisites.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading​_​law
 
2018-05-17 09:03:21 AM  

lennavan: Giant Clown Shoe: most legal work doesn't require brilliance. It requires grueling and mind numbing prep/ attention to detail. I'll take the determined grinder over inherent ability for almost every legal need.

As it turns out, passing standardized tests does not require brilliance or inherent ability, it requires lots and lots of studying.  You need determination to grind through all that studying, you should be a determined grinder, if you will.  If you want a good way to identify who those lawyer determined grinders are, there is a pretty farking good correlation between standardized test performance and being a determined grinder.

Otherwise, you're looking for that one person who was more determined and grinded harder than the rest but still failed the exam.  That person might exist but it's not like the world is filled with them.  I'll take my chances on whoever performed best on the standardized test.


Exactly. I took the GRE (the standardized test for other grad programs) and basically it was just that, a grinder. If you studied harder and longer, you did better (took it twice, I can vouch). I imagine that the GRE cannot be too much different in that aspect than the bar, LSAT, MCAT, or any other standardized test.
 
2018-05-17 09:05:29 AM  

OOF: [img.fark.net image 637x480]


I always wondered how he felt about getting his ass handed to him in court every time.

/obscure? nah....
 
2018-05-17 09:05:40 AM  

Truck Fump: Kouta: During my sophomore year of college I knew that I would never pass a partial differential equations class and therefore could never get an Engineering degree. I switched majors to Economics with a Math minor (I already had enough for that).

I admit choosing the Computer Systems option instead of straight EE, because the idea of diffE scared me sh*tless.

Still does.


I made it through basic diffEq with a B when I was 19. Partial diffEq? That was a straight up F. Linear Algebra was A's all around.
 
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