It's funny watching the few people left hanging onto the WMD argument latch onto that one, more-than-a-decade old shell like a dog to a pantleg covered in gravy.

No, wait, it's not funny. Just really sad.

Jewel Fang

1442 was agreed upon unanimously

Resolution 1442

"Welcoming the report of the Secretary-General of 15 November 2002 (S/2002/1243) on the United Nations operation in Cyprus, and in particular the call to the parties to assess and address the humanitarian issue of missing persons with due urgency and seriousness,


/don't see what that has to do with Iraq...

Cause yer a hippie liberal.

/me neither

Wytchocolate

Wasn't the whole sarin gas debacle systematically debunked back when that whole thing came out, that it was contained in a shell and that it was fairly harmless?

Just wondering, not trying to be a jerk or anything.

Other things Iraq war funding can pay for:

It would take 3,785 years to spend $119.4 billion at the rate of $1 per second
every day.

Or buy a median U.S. home -- median price $174,100, according to National Association of Realtors -- for 685,813 people, slightly more than all the residents of Austin, Texas

Where's that money going?

company's subcontractors charged $100 (83,
55) to launder a 15-pound bag of clothing and abandoned $85,000 trucks when
they suffered flat tyres.

Quadriplegic, this is one liberal who agrees with your proposed approach to terrorism. You don't fight it with armies; you fight it with covert operatives and police work.

>The Arab nations are represented by 21 separate countries. There is only
>one Jewish nation which is Israel. The combined land of Arab countries is
>650 times greater than Israel and yet no Arab nation had offered land to the
>Palestinians, and Palestinians keep terrorizing Israelis for what little land
>they have.

Southern Confederates during the civil war:
There is only 1 southern nation that is the Confederate south. The combined
land of non-slave owning countries is 650 times greater than the confederacy
and yet no non-slave owning nation has offered land to the slaves. And the
slaves keep demanding freedom and keep terrorizing the south for what
little land the south has.

I absolutely agree ! We should let the south secede and let them continue
with slavery. After all, there are many more nations that don't own slaves
so what's harm does a tiny slave owning southern sliver of the new word
do ?

By the way, HellGremlin and others: you _are_ Jewish_ right ?

So, I guess sarin gas that would kill 60,000 people is not a weapon of mass destruction. So how many people does a "mass" quantify?

Two points:

1) If you are referring to the Sarin shell that was found as part of a roadside bomb, no one knows if that was there to start with, or if someone who wandered across the rather pourous borders brought it with.

2) I was told that we knew where 400-600 THOUSAND pounds of WMDs were being stored, and we would find them as soon as those "inept" UN inspectors were out of there and the US army inspectors got in there and did it right. I want my thousands of pounds of WMD! Where are they?

Come on man... the WMD bullshiat was necessary to make people buy the Clear and Present Danger to America line. It doesn't have any basis in fact. A single MOAB, FAE or Daisy cutter has more killing potential that anything we've found. The only reason we know that they had WMD was that we gave it to them to whack Iran with.

The most ironic part about this whole terrorism thing is that they are using our own fark*d up media against us to rip us apart from the inside and no one seems to be thinking twice about this aspect. It is now their primary weapon, but we are too stupid to act on this, and we watch it everyday and eat it up as usual on a silver spoon. If the governments just listenend to their problems after 911 and maybe tried to understand what their problems were, the terrorists would have either;

1) asked for an impossible request like removing non-arabs from arab lands (which could have been negotiated inteligently regardless if it was absurd...negotiated just to prove a point....and if it failed a co-operative negotiation see number 3)

2) asked for basic cooperation/aid of some form

3) embarass themselves with mindless killer mentality infront of the whole arab/non-arab world after being offered a non-violent/understanding listening ear from their evil enemy



This bullsh*t might not have escalated to what terrorism is today. Most of their acts are in retaliation for something stupid we have done. The US needs to swallow its pride.

Wytchocolate

Are you serious? A single old artillery shell with inert sarin gas from what was it ... 20 years ago? Even back when the sarin gas was active it wouldn't kill anywhere near 60k people.

from wiggita-wiggita www.warblogging.com

Cheney is displaying the classic signs of cognitive dissonance. Years ago he cooked up this theory that Saddam Hussein and Usama bin-Laden were somehow linked, that these two "bad men" were in concert, must be in concert. Cheney was convinced that a non-state actor like UBL couldn't possibly have executed such spectacular attacks as 9/11 by himself. He must have had the resources of a state behind him. And, of course, the state most likely to help him at least in Cheney's mind was Iraq.

Cheney continued to believe this theory in the face of all evidence. When the supposed meeting between Mohammad Atta and an Iraqi intelligence agent in Prague disintegrated. It never really happened. Cheney continued to insist that it did, in fact, happen. The Czechs, the CIA and the FBI all insist that there is no evidence whatsoever that the meeting took place.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Saddam Hussein ever aided Usama bin-Laden, a man who called Hussein a "tyrant" who must be deposed. There is so little evidence, in fact, that even President Bush, when pressed, stated that he "could not make that claim" that there was a link between Saddam and UBL. Bush said this as long ago as March of 2003.

endquote. if you wanna go deeper, there's never been concrete evidence linking osama to 9/11 in the first place.

harryjrf

So was it the Navy's idea or Bush's idea to turn the ship around so you couldn't see how close the ship was to shore?

"White House spokesman Scott McClellan told CNN that in preparing for the speech, Navy officials on the carrier told Bush aides they wanted a "Mission Accomplished" banner, and the White House agreed to create it.

"We took care of the production of it," McClellan said. "We have people to do those things. But the Navy actually put it up." "

impaler
There hasn't been a single terrorist act against a Russian Embassy since.

There wasn't an attack on Russian soil until fairly recently I believe ...

Ike

There are a lot of similarities, but I have to say that Canadian women and Irish women are both beautiful.

Winters are drastically different here. Bloody winters, I swear. I can deal with them, but that doesn't make them fun!

kodonnell

2 words...glass parking lot.

I can name your tune in ONE word: DUMBASS

But hey, if you think it's cool to waste millions of innocent people to get to a handful of asshats, feel free to make your way over there and fight them yourself. Just don't let anyone know you're American. Our global image is bad enough thanks to people like you.

Hey, at least you guys still have winters, unlike here. It goes straight from fall to spring, I swear.

trad16

There are a number of known links betweent the Bush family, the House of Saud and the Bin Laden family. It looks very messy at the moment, and it may be years before we know the whole of their business dealings. The really important point is whether Osama (who was, it appears, excommunicated from his family) has any connections to Bush other than the obvious Bush -> Saudi -> OBL. (Still, since the Saudis fund terrorists, and Bush does business deals with the Saudis, I guess Bush funds terrorism.)

Beemer

Actually I'm uber-lefty/libertarian myself, but (like anybody who cares to look) can see the merits of opposing systems. This war is silly though - you cannot kill an ideology with bombs and bullets. Only with passion, reason and truth.

Ike

Er, sorry, I thought that was clear. I was essentially asking: "Although you hate another group for using vicious methods and targeting innocents, you are willing to do it yourselves (bomb them all, etc.). Does this mean that you put yourselves on equal moral footing with the terrorists?"

Which was directed to the complete loons who drop in to make comments like: "capture ten of them and execute them in vengeance".

Prospero424

Seriously, you're more than welcome to some of ours! YOu can have a few feet of snow and some of the -40 if you'd like!

electric squid carpet
Well said. What goes around comes around. How do we expect to defeat terrorists when we give them everything they need?
Hell, we've been doing it for decades. If we'd drop the moral blinders, and stop circle-jerking countries left and right, perhaps we'd get some respect. The sort of respect you DON'T get from from nuking a country. Or for that matter willfully invading it.

spelunking_defenestrator

You know what's scary is that Cheny is still preaching that there was a link. This is from the 14th of June.

"Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday that Saddam Hussein had "long-established ties" with al Qaida, an assertion that has been repeatedly challenged by some policy experts and lawmakers."

No html the site is to slow

But here's the link if you want to read it.
http://www.wftv.com/news/3417293/detail.html

GavinTheAlmighty


Hell, that's a deal if you'll take some of our 105+ degree, 100% humidity summers.

I really dislike sticking to everything I touch, most of which then burns me, hehe.

Seriously, we need some type of exchange program.

This will probably be pulled by moderators, but it had to be said...

Quadriplegic
I personally feel we should get out of the war.

The only way to win a war like this is to commit to total war. Vietnam is very similar to our current situation in this regard. All the rhetoric in the world won't fix the problem in the Middle East. We unfortunately are already committed and have been ever since we decided to back Israel and ignore the original idea of the US sticking to it's own hemisphere.

Sun Tzu's logic might have very well worked in Iraq but alas we charged head-first. Now it's Machiavelli that we should be turning to if we insist on continuing this conflict.

GavinTheAlmighty
Winters are drastically different here. Bloody winters, I swear. I can deal with them, but that doesn't make them fun!

Learn to snowboard or ski and winter becomes fun, so much fun you might end up following winter.

/heading to Chile and Argentina in 6 weeks.

I'll just post this for some of you more insensitive folks.

Lockheed Martin homepage

This is a memo we got a while back and it has been posted on the Lockheed Martin website. Sorry to burst the bubble for you Military-Industrial complex folks but it isn't as evil as you think.


Memorandum

To: All Employees

Date: June 13, 2004

From:
Vance Coffman, Chairman and CEO

Bob Stevens, President and COO






Subject: Employee Kidnapped

As you may have read in today's press reports, one of our employees stationed in Saudi Arabia has been kidnapped.

Paul M. Johnson, Jr., is an Orlando-based field engineer who has been working in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, supporting the Apache program's Target Acquisition and Designation Sites/Pilot Night Vision System.

We are all deeply concerned and are working closely with officials of the U.S. and Saudi governments -- as well as Paul's family -- to monitor the situation and assist in whatever way possible.

Be assured that the full attention and resources of this corporation are committed to support efforts to secure Paul's safe return. Due to our concerns for Paul's safety and the efforts that are underway on his behalf, our communications to you must be limited. However, we will do our best to keep you informed. We know you will join us in keeping Paul and his family uppermost in your thoughts and prayers.

/s/

Vance and Bob



Click for the
Source:

Another one that is going to get a very close shave?

Where did Jimmy go? I was having fun.

Quadriplegic
There are a number of known links betweent the Bush family, the House of Saud and the Bin Laden family. It looks very messy at the moment, and it may be years before we know the whole of their business dealings.

The CBC had a great documentry about the connections called The Conspiracy Theory, if you haven't seen it you can watch it at informationclearinghouse.info.

The really important point is whether Osama (who was, it appears, excommunicated from his family) has any connections to Bush other than the obvious Bush -> Saudi -> OBL. (Still, since the Saudis fund terrorists, and Bush does business deals with the Saudis, I guess Bush funds terrorism.)

Osama has a pretty big family, I've read that some of his family not to mention members of the Royal family have been pretty sympathetic meaning generous to Osama. I can't remember the name of the book that goes into great detail about it, if you're interested I can run downstairs and find the book.

Ike

As far as I'm aware, both Irish and Canadian women have fantastic asses. Heterosexual men need to come to Canada at least once in their life to experience the greatness.

I love my life.

Ike

Haven't you seen flamegirls.com? And that's just the ones willing to get half naked. You should see the classy ones here. Calgary's got some of the prettiest women in Canada third only to Montreal and Quebec city. The only beat us because of the french accent.

Ottawa's pretty good too. That city gets bonus marks because being the capital there's more women than men there.

We got the good bush, you guys have the bad Bush.

/I got the shirt.

TheWizard, isn't is plausible that a weapons company would assist in a military-industrial complex conspiracy, and therefore would produce fake letters?

quadrapeligic... drew you offsides didn't I, you commoners are very funny

Alrighty folks, been a blast but I'm out. Take it easy, my Canadian fellow farkers and my cool American farkers, you know who you are!

By the way this:

"When fighting a war against people who don't follow the "rules" of modern combat you must be willing to be completely ruthless. It's the only way to win this kind of war.

Obviously saving as many innocent lives as possible is ideal ... you do what you have to though."

-is dumbass alpha-male thinking. A weekend warrior fantasy. Ugh.

cheney is a sick, scary man.

Khaotix

Sadly, you are right. I must still disagree with your methods, however. Creating more fundamentalist crazies is not something we need to do. Appearing to be weak is an open invitation to new attacks, as well. We're just climbing the shiatrope right now, and the harder we squeeze, the more we slide down the shiatrope into the giant shiatstorm waiting for us (kudos to Trailer Park Boys).

trad16

Thanks, I'll look that up. It's nice to know that some media are working on the financial connections. They've been long overlooked.

impaler

The KGB ordeal happened back in the 60s if I remember correctly.

Also ... us withdrawing is a *fantastic* idea and I support it fully. I think that we shouldn't have ever set foot in Iraq. U.N. sanctioned actions are about as much as we should commit to in the Middle East. We should fully cut our funding/support of the Israeli nation while we are at it. I don't see those things happening any time soon unfortunately.

In any event - How about we let them kill the hostage then decide it's ok to commit to total war?

Really ... Give me any solution for fighting this war that will end with Iraq having a stable gov't, low civilian losses, and any small amount of respect for our country.

Sure, fear to get respect is a pretty pathetic way to earn it but when people react the way they do to Americans what should we do? I can't see a valid option between becoming isolationists in regards to the Middle East and committing to a total war where we exibit as little ethics as our opponents.

If anybody cares to see the video, it's here. (4m27s)

Not all that useful if you don't read or understand Arabic, though.

Lockemallup

I'll ask the same question I ask others -
Is there a way to win a war like Korea/Vietnam/Iraq that leaves us in a position to say "We won" otherwise?

The way we fight wars DOESN'T WORK.

This is why I think we shouldn't be *in* wars unless we are acting with the will of the U.N. which we all presume means actions that promote the stablity of the world at large.

2004-06-15 07:01:03 PM bbcrackmonkey

You know, I have an article bookmarked somewhere on the history of Saddam, but I couldn't find. So I did a quick google search. Here was the first hit I clicked:

http://www.newsbatch.com/iraq.htm

Here's the relevant content:

With Nasser assuming power in Egypt, Arab nationalism concepts were very popular with students although the Baath party was illegal and its activities were clandestine. Saddam Hussein soon became active in the Baath party as a gun man, and he participated in the assassination attempt on the country's strong man, General Kassem, in 1959. Then he went into exile in Cairo. There is evidence that his cooperation with the CIA began at that time as he made numerous trips to the American embassy while in exile. He returned to Iraq after 1963 when Kassem was ousted by the Baaths and was elected to the National Command. There is some basis to believe that General Kassem's ouster was assisted by the CIA which was motivated by a fear of Kassem's increased ties to the Soviet Union.

When the Baath party assumed power in 1968, again with the assistance of the CIA, Saddam Hussein emerged as the primary deputy leader to Muhammad Bakr, a general who became President.

It goes on, but he was clearly our guy from day one.

Ike
/fumbles with 1967 World Atlas and searches for an English-Canadian travel dictionary

I know you meant that as a joke but that comment actually says a lot about the US. I think there's a few Americans who would need an atlas to find Canada.

Quadriplegic

Here's the link to the website for that documentry, it doesn't have the actual program on it but it does have a lot of information.


Pops open..

Informationclearinghouse.info has the link to the actual video, warning it is in realplayer. Also ich has a pretty good newsletter. Spam free and full of informative links from newspapers and news agencies from around the world. I'll be the first to admit that some of the homegrown articles can be out there but those are just entertaining.


/On that note I'm outta here.

Peace