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(Click On Detroit)   White men can't jump. Larry Bird disagrees, saying NBA not "white enough"   ( divider line
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12685 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jun 2004 at 6:54 PM (13 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2004-06-10 07:55:14 PM  
What an asshat article/title to post. Arethe mods so desperate for posts that they have to post crap like this? Yes, the title should be amusing, fun, etc, but it should also BEAR SOME FARKING RESEMBLANCE TO THE CONTENTS OF THE ARTICLE!!! Holy crap...
2004-06-10 07:55:35 PM  
Bird is absolutely right, and everyone from the NBA's great era (essentially the 60s until the 90s) agrees with him.

When Jordan retired from the Bulls and Magic left the Lakers, the NBA died in my mind. It is an absolutely inferior game today, compared to what it was 10 years ago and even moreso 20 years ago when Bird and Magic took over the scene.

Today, the NBA is crap, and it is crap because of the influence "street ball" has had on the league.

Sorry, but street ball is lower-scoring, more boring, players pass less, it's slower, and players don't shoot as well. Inner city basketball, street ball, is terrible basketball and it's ruined the NBA. Only the infusion of more foreign talent (where they actually play basketball right) will save the league at this point.
2004-06-10 07:57:54 PM  
I read a pretty cool story about Bird about him retiring,
basically he went to the GM or president of the Celtics to tell him that he was retiring.
The GM told Bird to take like 2 weeks [wink/wink] to think about and if he still felt the same then he could retire then.

[Bird had some kind of clause in his contract that said he was to be paid like 2 million dollars on such and such date, the time that the GM told Bird to take would had covered it and Bird could collect 2 million and still retire]

Basically the Celtics wanted to just give Bird the money.
But Bird was like I know what your trying to do and I'm not gonna take that money because I didn't earn it, so he just retired that day.
Not many people let alone pro athletes would do something like that.
The thing about Bird is that he's a straight shooter(no pun intended)you ask him a question and your gonna get an answer, and its not gonna be some PC BS stuff.
Bird was my favorite pro athlete growing up.

2004-06-10 08:00:19 PM  
I think that the reason that the majority of NBA players are black is because out of the pool of available players, they were the best. There is nothing wrong with the best skilled people getting the jobs.

However, in any instance where a field is viewed as dominated by whites, it is automatically assumed to be racism. Could it be possible that the reason there are more white CEOs, doctors, etc. is because they were the best out of the pool of available candidates? Not to mention that whites are about 70% of the population?

This is just another example of the politically correct times that we live in.
2004-06-10 08:00:59 PM  
if the NBA were 95% white then the blacks would be screaming racism. Obviously the NBA is mostly black because the best basketball players are mostly black. So why can't a company be 95% white if the top 95% employees are white.

/meant to post this like 25 min ago
2004-06-10 08:01:21 PM  
True, jonastank. But how long ago was it that you couldn't even have that discussion in hockey?
2004-06-10 08:04:39 PM  
I dont think what he said was racist. Ignorant, yes but racist, no. What do his comments say to the 12 year old white kid thats busting his ass on the basketball court to get better at his sport? What he is basically saying that you will never be good as the black kids because you are white. That is a dumb statement and its also the reason why athletes no matter what color they are dont make good role-models
2004-06-10 08:08:06 PM  
If the "blacks are better athletes" argument is used, why aren't there any black hockey players? And there's only a top notch black tennis player every once in a while.

Can't people just accept that it is what it is, without trying to make something out of it?

Luke Walton, Mike Bibby, Jason Williams, Steve Nash, Manu Ginobili, Eduardo Najera, and all the European players. Tim Duncan is from the Dominican Republic.
2004-06-10 08:08:43 PM  
priestrape said:
True, jonastank. But how long ago was it that you couldn't even have that discussion in hockey?
on the other hand, he wouldn't be brought up if he wasn't black. but he's a good player. too bad the nhl is dead and buried as we all know it. lockout, see ya in a few months.
2004-06-10 08:08:53 PM  
Bird missed the point,

It isn't a race problem, but a marketing and socio-economic problem. Lots of the stars act either like Divas or thugs or alternate somewhere between them. And hip-hop marketing is NOT the way to go. I see the rise of NASCAR as a direct response to the NBAs failure to engage most of america these days. Hockey still has real players though
2004-06-10 08:10:02 PM  
BBanzai- Big difference between basketball and the real world . Try explaining your logic to a brother who busts his ass in college but cant get the job because he doesnt look like management potential.
2004-06-10 08:14:19 PM  
Tim Duncan is from the Virgin Islands or some other English-speaking Caribbean nation, not the Dominican Republic.

This thread is otherwise full of mostly shiat.
2004-06-10 08:14:47 PM  

Yeah, but couldn't you have made the same argument in the 80's with Grant Fuhr? What is your argument, again, anyway?

Also, isn't it at least somewhat racist to label Jerome Iginla "black"? His mother is white and his father is black. It seems more accurate to say that he is of mixed race or multi-racial or some such. To simply label him "black" seems to smack of the theory that "a drop of black blood makes one black," which was one of the discredited notions prevalent in the old South (and elsewhere I'm sure) about "maintaining white racial purity" and used to enforce rigid racial barriers in society.
2004-06-10 08:15:13 PM  
It is kind of sad that white people say something like this its racist and when another race says it then it must be true. Reverse racism is still racism. Black people love tiger woods because they can identify with him. White people would enjoy a good white basketball player the same way. I cant identify with them because theres like 4 of us native americans left...
2004-06-10 08:17:43 PM  
If reincarnation is for real, I want to come back as a strapping Nigra buck and breed wit da biatches until da break of dawn.

Modern day bothers, they act like they act they they wouldn't have been slaves............

Yo, check it out: master comes up and says Hey nubian, tote that bale, and I say Yo master- suck my dick. Suck my mutha-farkin'dick. Then I'd get in my Cadillac and get the fark out

good times
2004-06-10 08:21:37 PM  
To the few of you making CEO-business-world/NBA comments, please, stop. Yes, in fact there are more qualified white men than there are black men out there for the top CEO positions. A good chunk of that is because the majority of those white men didn't bust their asses trying to play a sport professionally that employs, what, maybe 400 people at the highest level. Why didn't they bust their asses? Well... perhaps they worked on their tennis games instead. Or had a father that didn't bust his ass trying to make it to the NBA. Or maybe they just couldn't jump (like Magic, by the by). Most likely, though, the vast majority of white CEOs had something better to work towards (a job that doesn't end when you blow out an ACL), with real, live examples of how to do it in their family.
If you're trying to make a legitimate (not sarcastic) argument against Affirmative Action using this as an example, methinks you should STFU and work on a better argument.
And get off of Charles Barkley's sack. He makes colored folks wince, too. Solution? Don't tune in.
2004-06-10 08:21:45 PM  

What tribe?

I just recently found out my great-grandaunt (or somesuch... lousy record-keeping on my mom's side of the family) was Caribbean "Indian" ("Native American", "North American Aboriginal", etc.) Haven't discerned which tribe yet (thankfully, only three to choose from). Makes me only 1/16 or 1/32 (depending on exact relation) whatever tribe, which I think is really cool, especially since my family history is, well, notably empty (the Puerto Rican half was lousy at keeping records, and the Yugoslavian half, well, my dad was technically not Yugoslavian, as the government of the time refused to acknowledge his family as citizens (gypsies).)

More than you needed or cared to know, I am sure.
2004-06-10 08:21:59 PM  
steelreservedrinker - Somehow you can understand the concept of merit based employment when it comes to a black-dominated field. When it is a white-dominated field, racism must be at work.

Have you considered the reason why that blacks have a lower average income and fewer opportunities than whites is because of the state (or rather non-existence) of the black family?

Most black children will grow up in a single-parent home with little or no discipline drenched in music that glamorized drugs and violence. They don't take school seriously, do poorly, and don't go to college. Not being able to speak plain English doesn't help either (ask Bill Cosby about that).

Fix black illegitimacy and you are one step closer to fixing the problem.
2004-06-10 08:22:06 PM  
What the fark is this about?

/goes back to trying to use my brain.
2004-06-10 08:23:22 PM  
bill Parcells is the idiot that I could identify in the article.
2004-06-10 08:23:28 PM  
Jack Squat

Heh. Uncle Gus woulda smacked the shiat out of you for sayin' that.
2004-06-10 08:24:29 PM  
Funny how nothing is said when the media talks about the Yankees and Godzilla and how he increases the Japaneese fan base that come out to see the Yankees.
2004-06-10 08:24:46 PM  
2004-06-10 08:08:53 PM Diamond Joe Quimby
"Hockey still has real players though"

I agree, i doubt A.I would play through some of the injuries that hockey players get. I like when a player gets hurt the announcers will stay stuff like: he will he back in the game hes a hockey player.
2004-06-10 08:25:00 PM  
The NBA is pervaded by streetball? Are we confusing off the court antics for the game? The level of competition was arguably better in halcyon days of Bird-Magic, basically because the league was less athletic and more guts -- which was certainly more dramatic and interesting. The players today run laps around players of yesteryear, and you all know it.

And Timmy D is Bahamian, not from DR.
2004-06-10 08:25:09 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

And I thought CTC meant Choke The Coach.
2004-06-10 08:25:31 PM  
I dunno if anybody's saidit yet, but one reason that black people have been excelling at major sports in north america far more than white people recently is because there are a lot fewer options for them.

If you're a big, buff, talented white guy, blessed with both a wicked jump shot and an outstanding brain, you may attempt the NBA, or you may go to law school, into business into the ol' boys club through your ivy league alma matter.

If you're a black guy in the same position, with the same blessing, you're gonna go for the NBA, and it's not a dumb choice, you probably have a better shot at making it.

/this is sad, and should not be, but I think that is the predominant feeling.
//at least that's what my black friends tell me, before they kick my ass in one-on-one.
2004-06-10 08:29:06 PM  
2004-06-10 08:21:45 PM ArcadianRefugee

What tribe?


"More than you needed or cared to know, I am sure"
Hey its always cool to hear stuff like that. I found out i have a little bit or irish and german in me and i thought it was fun to find out.

/for the record im 3/4s indian
2004-06-10 08:32:09 PM  
sorry about my typing should have said of insted of or
2004-06-10 08:34:02 PM  
BBanzai First off you are generalizing from information that you probably got from some white dude. Second let me explain a little bit about myself. I am black. I come from a single parent home. I listen to hip-hop music. I also went to college. After I graduated and got my degree I actually experienced racism first hand, while looking for jobs. Please dont insult me with your preconceived observations of what its like to be black, you dont have a clue.
2004-06-10 08:34:05 PM  
shouldn't this have an obvious tag?
2004-06-10 08:37:05 PM  
ah, nothing like a bunch of mostly-middle class white geeks sitting around talking about the finer points of black people and basketball, writing and rewriting their posts so as to make sure none of the other mostly-middle class white geeks, or the occasional black person, think they're racist.

it's just kinda funny.
2004-06-10 08:37:27 PM  
doc daneeka

I didn't know Iginla was of mixed race and meant no offense. My apologies.
2004-06-10 08:38:28 PM  
yeah because we need more guys like Mark Madsen airballing free throws!!!
2004-06-10 08:39:59 PM  
"I don't watch the NBA as much anymore because the games are not as good as they use to be.
Its not as much a team sport anymore, its more about individual match ups.
One guy holds the ball and all his team mates clear out, a bad missed shot follows and then they go down the other end and do it all over.
Then all the holding and grabing on defense, it makes for ugly basketball.
On top of that David Stern/the NBA spend all there time selling the game to the young hip hop fans. Thats fine, but its a pretty small market to gear your product to.
Its just matter of time before MTV is the home of the NBA finals."

Thats pretty much the reasons I quit watching the nba. That and a bunch of them are arrogant spoiled pre-madonnas who smoke pot (yay trailBLAZERS) and act like a bunch of overpaid thugs.
2004-06-10 08:40:20 PM  
RedEyedWings, its also why the heavy weight divison in boxing stinks now, all the top young athletes are concentrating on NBA first and NFL second, kids use to think being the heavy weight champ was the golden ticket out of poverty.
2004-06-10 08:40:25 PM  
In a rainbow-colored Benneton world, what Bird said would be considered somewhat racist and ignorant, but racism does play a role in the world today. It might not be overt racism (I hope the other colored guy does bad), but more of support for one's own race (I hope that colored guy does well). There's a reason Yao Ming is being promoted in asia. Seeing someone representative of one's ethnicity does make a difference. The Chinese government would only allow Yao Ming to sign in a U.S. city with a large chinese population and Yao Ming's jersey outsells all other players' jerseys in China. People tend to stick to one's own. Whether that be family, ethnicity, local or state affiliation, or on a broader spectrum, national affiliation, it doesn't matter. Just human nature to stick together.
2004-06-10 08:41:53 PM  

More like

An image:

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2004-06-10 08:42:52 PM  
Do you think the majority of people on these boards really care what their compatriots (and the occasional brown version) think? This is the ultimate place to exercise your "I don't care" muscles, and it shows. It's when they're forced to chat face to face with the real-life brown that they edit what they say. This is a release valve for them, and it's an illuminating, if worrisome, forum to observe. Especially if you're brown.
2004-06-10 08:43:29 PM  
I agree with SwapMeet
2004-06-10 08:43:39 PM  
Black man says sport is not black enough. No real controversy. White man says sport is not white enough. Controversy ensues.

/equality indeed...
2004-06-10 08:44:01 PM

Nuff said.

2004-06-10 08:44:51 PM  

Absolutely. Black, white, yellow or green(just didn't wanna use purple), people cheer for their own. It's the reason that Toronto fans will ramble for hours about how Steve Nash will surely sign with the Raptors, despite the fact that he wouldn't leave Dallas (or Dirk) for anything.
His Mavs jersey is all over the place up here (or was, until he bowed out), and it ain't because he's the greatest, it's because he's Canadian, and it gives us a reason to care.

So, from that standpoint, I'd say Bird's comments were very accurate. And, no doubt, they will be blown way, way out of proportion.
2004-06-10 08:46:49 PM  
If the "blacks are better athletes" argument is used, why aren't there any black hockey players? And there's only a top notch black tennis player every once in a while.
Money. Basketball is a relatively cheap sport to play, so kids living on the streets can play it very easily. However, Hockey and Tennis require $$$ to play, and as such they are reserved for mid to upper class incomes.
2004-06-10 08:47:01 PM  
I don't understand. Why can't I (as a big ol' white boy) identify with a black person? If whitey is putting a sphere through a hoop, it makes perfect sense, but when the skin turns darker the same act somehow becomes less accessable?

Man, white people must be dumb.
2004-06-10 08:47:06 PM  
jolyon wagg
I don't know that I'd call myself brown...I'm really more of a caramel color...

/just kidding. i know what you mean.
2004-06-10 08:49:05 PM  
If the situation was reversed, like golf-10 years ago for instance, nobody would be crying foul. I can't stand this ultra-sensitive political correctness bullshiat. If things are lopsided, they are lopsided. Whay the hell can't someone say so without getting heat?
2004-06-10 08:51:48 PM  
What basketball needs is a bigger court, same way the NHL needs olympic-sized ice. Small playing areas limit the amount of midfield skill and build-up to chances. No need to be as big as a ballpark or soccer ptch, but a little bigger would be nice. You could also get heaps more seats in a comfortably stadium if the playing areas was bigger - the NBA and NHL will always be hogtied operating in grounds that only hold about 1/3 of a soccer ground or ball field's capacity, because it makes ticket proces too far out of reach of the fan base. Paying $400 to see the Leafs lose has got to suck, and that's before scalpers are allowed to buy and resell tickets at inflated prices.
2004-06-10 08:58:08 PM  
I'm not bothered by anyone being racist. I hate all a-holes equally... Jew, Cracker, WOP, Spic, Negro, Beaner, whatever. Doesn't matter to me where the hell your great-great-grand pappy came from. If you're a dick. I don't like you.

AND DON'T CALL ME WHITEY!! I'm euro-american
2004-06-10 08:59:00 PM  
I used to love B-Ball, back in Bird's day but I cant stand the sport now. I will not watch a bunch of millionaire criminals. Just look at the scoring in todays game, I argue with this guy at work, he claims good defense is why scoring is down. I say its because they do not play team basketball anymore, its all about being a "hotdog". And they dont give a crap about the "team" is all about me...
2004-06-10 09:00:31 PM  
ATTENTION Bonzo_1116....

And anyone else who thinks genetics make "blacks" better atheletes:

You may find this article interesting:​d​/25969;j sessionid=baa_gFK0QH9NJt

Localized differences in genetics may make some contribution to patterns of success in sports, but such differences are not summable in the social categories of "black" and "white," and they do not efface environmental inputs. To succeed in a given sport, athletes of all geographic backgrounds must still train hard, think hard, have facilities, receive good coaching and live in a culture that values cricket, tennis, basketball or boxing. Additionally, at the elite level, the physical potential for greatness is so rare among all populations that geographic differences do not swamp the significance of individual variation.

If taken seriously, Entine's claims could only support the silliest of propositions. Entine maintains that the "disparity between blacks and whites in sports is at least as pronounced" as the disparity between women and men. Do we need, therefore, a separate "white men's league" for basketball and tennis? Should Title IX agents worry about the inadequacy of opportunities for young white boys to play basketball or go bowling? Any other suggestions? As long as white-skinned boys, even those who are relatively untalented, continue to have greater opportunities for athletic self-development than boys of all other cultural and geographic heritages and than all girls, Entine's argument will remain one undeserving of much concern.
Paul Achter and Celeste M. Condit, Speech Communication, University of Georgia
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