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(BBC)   Trump: I've pulled the US out of the terrible, horrible, dreadful TPP. UK: So that means there's a spot available?   ( bbc.co.uk) divider line
    More: Unlikely, European Union, International trade, new trade deals, United Kingdom, UK, Japan, Pacific trade group, fresh trade opportunities  
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1139 clicks; posted to Business » on 03 Jan 2018 at 8:50 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



32 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2018-01-03 04:53:49 AM  
Toilet paper party?
 
2018-01-03 05:12:06 AM  
Well they do still have the Pitcairn Islands, so I guess they could claim to be a Pacific nation.
 
2018-01-03 07:40:28 AM  

thisispete: Well they do still have the Pitcairn Islands, so I guess they could claim to be a Pacific nation.


And Diego Garcia is pretty close.

Yes, for all practical purposes it's an unsinkable American aircraft carrier; but technically it's British.
 
2018-01-03 08:51:37 AM  
Funny how everyone was against the TPP until Trump pulled the US from it
 
2018-01-03 09:03:37 AM  

machoprogrammer: Funny how everyone was against the TPP until Trump pulled the US from it


  This is exactly what I was just thinking.  I remember watching Rob Reich's videos talking about how horrible TPP would be.  I'm not a Trump fan but this TPP never sounded like something beneficial to most of us.
 
2018-01-03 09:20:53 AM  

machoprogrammer: Funny how everyone was against the TPP until Trump pulled the US from it


It's not really 'funny' at all. A Trans-Pacific trade agreement would be cool. But when the US was in it, they cooked up so many special provisions and rewards to help the US that it was really no good to anyone except the US, and in fact would have destroyed socialized elements and local economies of some of the nations that it wanted to sign off with those provisions. Now that the US is out of the picture, it's started something that everyone else can work with.
 
2018-01-03 09:38:15 AM  
I was never against it, I saw it as the only way we could be a voice against Chinese expansion in the region. Was I completely happy with the details? No. Better to be in a multinational agreement that only gives us most of what we want than to walk away and let someone else make all the rules.
 
2018-01-03 09:48:32 AM  

rummonkey: I was never against it, I saw it as the only way we could be a voice against Chinese expansion in the region. Was I completely happy with the details? No. Better to be in a multinational agreement that only gives us most of what we want than to walk away and let someone else make all the rules.


Farking this. My opinion on the matter was always similar to the arguments seen in the EU concerning Brexit. Sure, it was far from perfect and could be better for the US than it was, but it looked like a Pan Asia trade aggreement was going to happen, and we could be at the table helping make the rules, or out and subject to rules we have no say in. Logically, opposing the TPP made no sense given those assumptions.
 
2018-01-03 09:49:26 AM  

MAJ Ethanolic: I'm not a Trump fan but this TPP never sounded like something beneficial to most of us.


Yes, it always sounded like a huge transfer of power to multinational corporations and extranational bodies. I don't know whether Trump is against it for the same reasons I am (in his case, I suspect knee-jerk American nationalism and protectionism), but I'll take it. But if I'm reflexively for everything Trump is against, and vice versa, than I'm no better than he is.

Oddly, I also find myself in agreement with him on Pakistan. We've been backing a thoroughly corrupt regime for years while they manipulated us.

But despite all that, I still thoroughly reject the legitimacy of Trump's right to exist.
 
2018-01-03 09:56:30 AM  

MAJ Ethanolic: I'm not a Trump fan but this TPP never sounded like something beneficial to most of us.


Well it might not have been beneficial to be in it but it will be disasterous to be left out.   Sometimes not falling behind the rest of the world is reason enough to do things.
 
2018-01-03 10:01:12 AM  
This is a president that wants a series of single nation trade agreements instead of multinational ones. Its like opening a mom and pop grocery store right next to a Walmart and wondering why there are no customers.

Ostensibly because they are easy to bully the little guy with.
 
2018-01-03 10:02:25 AM  

czetie: MAJ Ethanolic: I'm not a Trump fan but this TPP never sounded like something beneficial to most of us.

Yes, it always sounded like a huge transfer of power to multinational corporations and extranational bodies. I don't know whether Trump is against it for the same reasons I am (in his case, I suspect knee-jerk American nationalism and protectionism), but I'll take it. But if I'm reflexively for everything Trump is against, and vice versa, than I'm no better than he is.

Oddly, I also find myself in agreement with him on Pakistan. We've been backing a thoroughly corrupt regime for years while they manipulated us.

But despite all that, I still thoroughly reject the legitimacy of Trump's right to exist.


Aint no hate like Liberal hate. Gotta love the Liberal hypocrisy of calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi, then saying shiat like "I reject his right to exist." Awful Fascist of you, dont you think?

Trump is a piece of shiat, and I dont want him leading this country either. But "rejecting his right to exist" is pretty damn extreme. Anyone else you feel doesnt deserve to exist, and what solution would you come up for dealing with that? Should we start rounding them up into several locations and contain them until their right to existence can be dealt with? What other final thoughts do you have on the subject?
 
2018-01-03 10:25:21 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Aint no hate like Liberal hate. Gotta love the Liberal hypocrisy of calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi, then saying shiat like "I reject his right to exist." Awful Fascist of you, dont you think?


...you're not very bright, are you? I have a mental picture of you and it involves friends and family explaining to you how forks work so you don't hurt yourself. Again.
 
2018-01-03 10:27:52 AM  

rummonkey: This is a president that wants a series of single nation trade agreements instead of multinational ones. Its like opening a mom and pop grocery store right next to a Walmart and wondering why there are no customers.

Ostensibly because they are easy to bully the little guy with.


It's hilarious that Trump asked Merkel for a trade agreement between the US and Germany, and Merkel had to explain to him, to the embarrassment of career diplomats,  that, as part of the EU, that would never happen.  I'm beginning to think that this Trump guy hasn't thought his clever plan through.
 
2018-01-03 10:38:40 AM  

hammettman: It's hilarious that Trump asked Merkel for a trade agreement between the US and Germany, and Merkel had to explain to him, to the embarrassment of career diplomats,  that, as part of the EU, that would never happen.  I'm beginning to think that this Trump guy hasn't thought his clever plan through.


Remember, NOBODY understands trade, taxes, or healthcare better than Trump. His voters believe it, too. Same folks who give their retirement savings to a con-man with a flashy watch and gold necklace.
 
2018-01-03 11:10:26 AM  

starsrift: machoprogrammer: Funny how everyone was against the TPP until Trump pulled the US from it

It's not really 'funny' at all. A Trans-Pacific trade agreement would be cool. But when the US was in it, they cooked up so many special provisions and rewards to help the US that it was really no good to anyone except the US, and in fact would have destroyed socialized elements and local economies of some of the nations that it wanted to sign off with those provisions. Now that the US is out of the picture, it's started something that everyone else can work with.


This. The trade aspects were fine. All the provisions giving god-like powers to multinational corporations were a travesty.
 
2018-01-03 11:24:48 AM  
The TPP and NAFTA are both trickle down economics, with other countries being the beneficiaries.

I thought you democrats were against trickle down economics?
 
2018-01-03 11:25:18 AM  

Dick Gozinya: czetie: MAJ Ethanolic: I'm not a Trump fan but this TPP never sounded like something beneficial to most of us.

Yes, it always sounded like a huge transfer of power to multinational corporations and extranational bodies. I don't know whether Trump is against it for the same reasons I am (in his case, I suspect knee-jerk American nationalism and protectionism), but I'll take it. But if I'm reflexively for everything Trump is against, and vice versa, than I'm no better than he is.

Oddly, I also find myself in agreement with him on Pakistan. We've been backing a thoroughly corrupt regime for years while they manipulated us.

But despite all that, I still thoroughly reject the legitimacy of Trump's right to exist.

Aint no hate like Liberal hate. Gotta love the Liberal hypocrisy of calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi, then saying shiat like "I reject his right to exist." Awful Fascist of you, dont you think?

Trump is a piece of shiat, and I dont want him leading this country either. But "rejecting his right to exist" is pretty damn extreme. Anyone else you feel doesnt deserve to exist, and what solution would you come up for dealing with that? Should we start rounding them up into several locations and contain them until their right to existence can be dealt with? What other final thoughts do you have on the subject?


Can we put him in a cage and laugh at him 24/7 on Celebrity Prisoner?
 
2018-01-03 11:31:34 AM  

shpritz: This. The trade aspects were fine. All the provisions giving god-like powers to multinational corporations were a travesty.


Don't forget the utterly terrible copyright provisions (yes, those belong in a trade agreement *rolls eyes*) in it as well.
 
2018-01-03 11:31:43 AM  

dwrash: The TPP and NAFTA are both trickle down economics, with other countries being the beneficiaries.

I thought you democrats were against trickle down economics?


This is an untrue statement. American multi-nationals would have benefited more than any other single group.
 
2018-01-03 11:42:48 AM  

Moopy Mac: dwrash: The TPP and NAFTA are both trickle down economics, with other countries being the beneficiaries.

I thought you democrats were against trickle down economics?

This is an untrue statement. American multi-nationals would have benefited more than any other single group.


There was a great interview on NPR about this... how manufacturing moving to other countries, increase wages there and lifts the standard of living.   "A rising tide lifts all boats".... that is trickle down economics.
 
2018-01-03 11:44:04 AM  

Moopy Mac: dwrash: The TPP and NAFTA are both trickle down economics, with other countries being the beneficiaries.

I thought you democrats were against trickle down economics?

This is an untrue statement. American multi-nationals would have benefited more than any other single group.


Some trolls are worth feeding just to see how far the rabbit hole goes. This is not one of those trolls.
 
2018-01-03 11:44:23 AM  
Trump:  "On the orders of my master Putin, I continue to sabotage every trade agreement and alliance the United States has."
 
2018-01-03 12:25:47 PM  

dwrash: Moopy Mac: dwrash: The TPP and NAFTA are both trickle down economics, with other countries being the beneficiaries.

I thought you democrats were against trickle down economics?

This is an untrue statement. American multi-nationals would have benefited more than any other single group.

There was a great interview on NPR about this... how manufacturing moving to other countries, increase wages there and lifts the standard of living.   "A rising tide lifts all boats".... that is trickle down economics.


Trickle down doesn't work. Nice theory, but it doesn't work.

Nafta has cut a path of destruction through Mexico. Since the agreement went into force in 1994, the country's annual per capita growth flat-lined to an average of just 1.2 percent -- one of the lowest in the hemisphere. Its real wage has declined and unemployment is up.

As heavily subsidized U.S. corn and other staples poured into Mexico, producer prices dropped and small farmers found themselves unable to make a living. Some two million have been forced to leave their farms since Nafta. At the same time, consumer food prices rose, notably the cost of the omnipresent tortilla.

...

Not all of Mexico's problems can be laid at Nafta's doorstep. But many have a direct causal link. The agreement drastically restructured Mexico's economy and closed off other development paths by prohibiting protective tariffs, support for strategic sectors and financial controls.

Nafta's failure in Mexico has a direct impact on the United States. Although it has declined recently, jobless Mexicans migrated to the United States at an unprecedented rate of half a million a year after Nafta.

Workers in both countries lose when companies move, when companies threaten to move as leverage in negotiations, and when nations like Mexico lower labor rights and environmental enforcement to attract investment.

source

I'll end with the article ending:

"After promising to renegotiate Nafta for many of these reasons, the Obama administration is now pushing the Trans-Pacific Partnership. The Pacific pact, which is a regional Nafta-style trade agreement, would grant even greater privileges to transnational corporations and would exacerbate problems for Mexico and other developing countries.
"That's not good for them, and it's not good for the United States."

*

The problem with Trump is that, based on his history of "deal making", everyone except him is gonna get screwed over. I don't want the man who doesn't pay attention to anything that isn't "me me me me me" negotiating these things.
 
2018-01-03 01:02:17 PM  

dwrash: Moopy Mac: dwrash: The TPP and NAFTA are both trickle down economics, with other countries being the beneficiaries.

I thought you democrats were against trickle down economics?

This is an untrue statement. American multi-nationals would have benefited more than any other single group.

There was a great interview on NPR about this... how manufacturing moving to other countries, increase wages there and lifts the standard of living.   "A rising tide lifts all boats".... that is trickle down economics.


And American companies would be the largest beneficiaries.
 
2018-01-03 01:13:58 PM  
I find it remarkable how few Americans seem to realize how many international agreements gave America the most power (Or your companies at least. Didn't help many average Americans). Having the most power is quite beneficial in that sense, if at the end of the deal, each extra dollar you get 98 cents and I get 2, at least I still get 2... insert something about a 2 pump chump or something and considering that great sex because you came? I don't know, I'm not sleeping well and am at least 35% less clever than normal.

Frankly, it would be interesting if mutual benefit was the primary goal, not a possible side effect of negotiations if Trump continues dwindling down your power. I mean, it's nowhere near gone yet.

I also doubt China (Or another large power) won't gladly take over the role either, but a Canadian can dream.
 
2018-01-03 03:21:44 PM  

Fuzzmosis: I find it remarkable how few Americans seem to realize how many international agreements gave America the most power (Or your companies at least. Didn't help many average Americans). Having the most power is quite beneficial in that sense, if at the end of the deal, each extra dollar you get 98 cents and I get 2, at least I still get 2... insert something about a 2 pump chump or something and considering that great sex because you came? I don't know, I'm not sleeping well and am at least 35% less clever than normal.

Frankly, it would be interesting if mutual benefit was the primary goal, not a possible side effect of negotiations if Trump continues dwindling down your power. I mean, it's nowhere near gone yet.

I also doubt China (Or another large power) won't gladly take over the role either, but a Canadian can dream.


Yes, most Americans are idiots.   And, yes, China can't believe their good fortune that the world's largest economic power, thus the player at the table with the most leverage, has voluntarily  vacated their spot at the table.  America will still gladly consume all the cheap global exports they can get their hands on (particulary the American hipster champagne socialists who would likely coil into the fetal position if forced to spend 2 days without their smartphone or flatscreenTV), they're just letting the exporters set all the terms.
 
2018-01-03 03:34:19 PM  
What are the TPP rules on banana curvature?
 
2018-01-03 03:55:50 PM  

shpritz: This. The trade aspects were fine. All the provisions giving god-like powers to multinational corporations were a travesty.


I love how segments of the reactionary left and right, who are practically indistinguishable in many regards and usually  have absolutely no background in trade agreements, got their hands around a commonplace practice in trade modern trade agreements (Investor-to-Dispute-Settlements). The ISDS wasn't some secret nefarious plan by the American corporate masters TPP.   These are standard agreements.     Canada and the EU's recent CETA trade agreement has ISDS in it (by all means, let's Be More Like Denmark .... Denmark (and all of Scandanavia LOVES them some free trade agreements).   Austrailia has an ISDS agreetment with Hong Kong.   These are gentures of good faith, usually insisted upon by developing countries.  They want to show stability and good faith to potential foreign investors.   Other parties want signs of good faith that a multidecade trade agreement can't be exploited and tweaked by a current government regime of the month to benefit their own domestic companies and special interest groups.  Given that Americans have a pretty regular habit of voting in corrupt imbeciles that they would "like to have a beer with", you could see why non-American entities would request this.


I agree that TPP should have done away with the ISDS, if only because it would have prevented opportunist politicians on both sides from advancing their political careers by rousing up the nationalist rube base and sabotaging something that would have made our lives better to get some cheap votes.
 
2018-01-03 08:51:47 PM  
I'm still pissed TPP never happened.
 
2018-01-04 06:36:26 AM  

sprgrss: I'm still pissed TPP never happened.


But the US pullout keeps toxic US copyright law in the US only, so that helps.
 
2018-01-04 06:37:07 AM  
I mean it doesn't help the US, but everyone else benefits.
 
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