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(BGR)   If you have an iPhone X and are still using Face ID, well... so much for your precious phone security   ( bgr.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, SIM lock, Face ID, Video clip, Mobile phone, Face ID hack, Face ID data, Face ID unlock, way Face ID  
•       •       •

2818 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Jan 2018 at 10:50 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



76 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2018-01-01 10:13:01 AM  
Facial recognition is being used all over the world. It either sucks in general or Apple does.

These too look pretty alike to me though.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-01-01 10:20:49 AM  

edmo: Facial recognition is being used all over the world. It either sucks in general or Apple does.

These too look pretty alike to me though.

[img.fark.net image 850x447]


FTFA: "A brand new video shows the same kind of Face ID hack between two family members who aren't alike. "

i don't want to throw my support behind iPhone facial recognition, but I think this makes the case that the faces ARE similar... even if in ways that some people don't naturally detect.

BTW, if you've never heard of Prosopagnosia (face blindness), it is a fascinating disorder.

60 Minutes did a spot on this several years back:
Face Blindness, part 1
Youtube dxqsBk7Wn-Y
 
2018-01-01 10:22:48 AM  

edmo: Facial recognition is being used all over the world. It either sucks in general or Apple does.

These too look pretty alike to me though.

[img.fark.net image 850x447]


^^^ yep
 
2018-01-01 10:45:50 AM  
There are pretty much two cases where someone might try to unlock your phone. Someone who has stolen it and a nosy family member. The theft one is rare while the family member, who will have easy access to your phone, is probably far far more common. It's ironic then that face recognition appears to be far less secure when faced with the far more likely situation.
 
2018-01-01 10:52:22 AM  
How the fark can you say those faces don't look alike?  Eyes, nose, and mouth are similarly spaced and sized.  Hair is similarly styled.  WTF!
 
2018-01-01 10:59:37 AM  
The Face ID hack is successful time and again...
Whatever is allowing this hack to work...


It's not a farking hack you stupid farking wanker. It's shiatty software
 
2018-01-01 11:05:03 AM  
Can someone please (condescendingly, as usual) explain to me again how this 3d face recognition is so much more secure than the crap systems we all disabled on our Android phones 3 years ago?
 
2018-01-01 11:11:32 AM  
Sounds like three or four more versions are needed before I would even consider it.

/ I wonder if the police can tap and download surreptitiously to update their own FR databases?
 
2018-01-01 11:12:07 AM  

edmo: Facial recognition is being used all over the world. It either sucks in general or Apple does.

These too look pretty alike to me though.

[img.fark.net image 850x447][View Full Size image _x_]


They look a little similar. But you wouldn't give a key to one if you were expecting the other.
 
2018-01-01 11:13:52 AM  

Vaginosilicosis: Can someone please (condescendingly, as usual) explain to me again how this 3d face recognition is so much more secure than the crap systems we all disabled on our Android phones 3 years ago?


Because Apple.
 
2018-01-01 11:16:27 AM  
There are many great uses for facial recognition. Authentication is not one of them.
 
2018-01-01 11:21:11 AM  

Russ1642: There are many great uses for facial recognition. Authentication is not one of them.


img.fark.netView Full Size


AUTHENTICATED
 
2018-01-01 11:22:22 AM  
Or they both have their faces registered in the software.  If you have facial recognition activated, and you give it to a similar enough looking person, they unlock the phone with a password, it can and will update it's identifiers for your face and just assume you've mildly changed your look.

Or it could just be broken.
 
2018-01-01 11:26:18 AM  

Hollie Maea: Vaginosilicosis: Can someone please (condescendingly, as usual) explain to me again how this 3d face recognition is so much more secure than the crap systems we all disabled on our Android phones 3 years ago?

Because Apple.


OK, serious answer, and I'll try not to be all that condescending: It really is a far more advanced system, because those systems basically just grabbed a snapshot of your face, and compared it to the image on file of you, and if it was close enough, it let you in.  This is doing a full, 3D scan of your face, so it's not really just comparing pics.

What I suspect has happened here, in this case, the mother has tried to unlock it enough times that Face ID has "learned" her face, and thinks it's just the way that her daughter's face can look scanned in certain ways.  Part of how Face ID works is it tries to learn changes in your appearance over time, so that you don't end up with situations where if you skip shaving a few days, you can't unlock your phone because of the stubble.  So I think the weakness here is in that, in that it might be a bit overgenerous in dealing with changes in appearance.
 
2018-01-01 11:35:34 AM  
And I'm sat using iris recognition like:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-01-01 11:41:47 AM  
Wait, BGR wrote an article crapping on Apple? Has the world imploded?
They seem to slob Apples knob non stop there.
 
2018-01-01 11:53:09 AM  
Was anyone asking for face id? Or animated emojis? All that processing power used for the dumbest shiat.
 
2018-01-01 12:01:22 PM  

WhackingDay: Was anyone asking for face id? Or animated emojis? All that processing power used for the dumbest shiat.


Well, Apple does like to slow their crap down.
 
2018-01-01 12:10:21 PM  
"Unlike its Android alternatives, it can't be hacked with photos "

However, IR photos ...
 
2018-01-01 12:10:34 PM  

envirovore: Wait, BGR wrote an article crapping on Apple?


More of a 'fart in their general direction', but yeah.
 
2018-01-01 12:10:57 PM  

fat boy: WhackingDay: Was anyone asking for face id? Or animated emojis? All that processing power used for the dumbest shiat.

Well, Apple does like to slow their crap down.


Only if you're not using the lastest phone. Then you have a few months before that happens.
 
2018-01-01 12:20:14 PM  
You mean the product that advertises itself on TV using talking piles of cartoon shiat?

That product?
 
2018-01-01 12:32:55 PM  

dj495ufj3: And I'm sat using iris recognition like:

[img.fark.net image 425x239][View Full Size image _x_]


I thought that said ISIS. was confused
 
2018-01-01 12:32:56 PM  
Well, Facebook's automatic tagging routinely confuses my wife and my daughter. I wonder if this is any more secure than that. No matter, because it will be years before anything like an iPhone X comes into the house (daughter will be paying off her 6S for almost two years yet and wife sees no need to upgrade from her 5S) so maybe this shiat will be fixed by then.
 
2018-01-01 12:39:36 PM  

pdieten: Well, Facebook's automatic tagging routinely confuses my wife and my daughter. I wonder if this is any more secure than that. No matter, because it will be years before anything like an iPhone X comes into the house (daughter will be paying off her 6S for almost two years yet and wife sees no need to upgrade from her 5S) so maybe this shiat will be fixed by then.


I'm sure it will get better over time, but I still think it's a step back from TouchID, which worked well and didn't need to be 'improved' into something new.
 
2018-01-01 12:52:37 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: Can someone please (condescendingly, as usual) explain to me again how this 3d face recognition is so much more secure than the crap systems we all disabled on our Android phones 3 years ago?


It's not- at least not in Apple products.

In theory it's more secure because it represents your face as a 3-dimensional object, so in order to get access to your device your face must look like your face but also have the same shape as your face.

The problem with Apple's implementation is that they're adding around ten thousand 3d data points on top of an already multi-megapixel (millions of points of data) photo of your face. In the process they've compromised the original 2d version of their security. The people in the article do look alike, but not so alike that a traditional photo scan would have mistaken them for one another. The face scan process requires that you map your multi-million data points photo onto a ten thousand data point 3d scan of your face- or in technical jargon you've mapped a very complex data set into a much simpler space and you end up throwing out a lot of the information you had before.

All of the techniques used to perform facial recognition and analysis thrive on data. The more data the better. A 3d data set is not more secure if you've got 500 times less data than the 2d data set. This is a fundamental limitation of the technology until someone makes a multi-million point face scanner that is cheap and small enough to go inside your phone.
 
2018-01-01 12:58:10 PM  

jake_lex: Hollie Maea: Vaginosilicosis: Can someone please (condescendingly, as usual) explain to me again how this 3d face recognition is so much more secure than the crap systems we all disabled on our Android phones 3 years ago?

Because Apple.

OK, serious answer, and I'll try not to be all that condescending: It really is a far more advanced system, because those systems basically just grabbed a snapshot of your face, and compared it to the image on file of you, and if it was close enough, it let you in.  This is doing a full, 3D scan of your face, so it's not really just comparing pics.


This is where you fall into the marketing claptrap, sorry. A 3D system sounds more advanced than a 2D system, but it's not. It's just 3D. In this case, Apple's 3D scan of your face is extremely low resolution compared to the 2D system that came before it.

There are other potential problems from a data-theoretic perspective as well.
 
2018-01-01 12:59:39 PM  

bronyaur1: You mean the product that advertises itself on TV using talking piles of cartoon shiat?

That product?


You might have to narrow that down a bit...
 
2018-01-01 01:05:29 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: pdieten: Well, Facebook's automatic tagging routinely confuses my wife and my daughter. I wonder if this is any more secure than that. No matter, because it will be years before anything like an iPhone X comes into the house (daughter will be paying off her 6S for almost two years yet and wife sees no need to upgrade from her 5S) so maybe this shiat will be fixed by then.

I'm sure it will get better over time, but I still think it's a step back from TouchID, which worked well and didn't need to be 'improved' into something new.


I agree with you. TouchID works so reliably with no breaches that I know of, it seems a shame they didn't just keep it.
 
2018-01-01 01:45:55 PM  

jake_lex: Hollie Maea: Vaginosilicosis: Can someone please (condescendingly, as usual) explain to me again how this 3d face recognition is so much more secure than the crap systems we all disabled on our Android phones 3 years ago?

Because Apple.

OK, serious answer, and I'll try not to be all that condescending: It really is a far more advanced system, because those systems basically just grabbed a snapshot of your face, and compared it to the image on file of you, and if it was close enough, it let you in.  This is doing a full, 3D scan of your face, so it's not really just comparing pics.

What I suspect has happened here, in this case, the mother has tried to unlock it enough times that Face ID has "learned" her face, and thinks it's just the way that her daughter's face can look scanned in certain ways.  Part of how Face ID works is it tries to learn changes in your appearance over time, so that you don't end up with situations where if you skip shaving a few days, you can't unlock your phone because of the stubble.  So I think the weakness here is in that, in that it might be a bit overgenerous in dealing with changes in appearance.


I can sum up what you just said:

Yes, it's true that it works for shiat...but its much more high tech while its letting you down.
 
2018-01-01 02:08:21 PM  
Oh look, it's the New Year's iHater Circle Jerk. Hope somebody got paid overtime for this.
 
2018-01-01 02:29:26 PM  

abhorrent1: The Face ID hack is successful time and again...
Whatever is allowing this hack to work...

It's not a farking hack you stupid farking wanker. It's shiatty software


No, the Android version that is still routinely fooled by a photos is shiatty.

TFA straight up tells you what's going on here.

The way Face ID works is that it keeps taking images of the user whenever the phone is unlocked, to continuously update the mathematical expression assigned to one's face.

By inputting the password after a failed Face ID unlock, you practically instruct the phone to include the most recent scan in its library, especially if it somewhat matches your face.
 
2018-01-01 02:48:45 PM  

elkboy: don't want to throw my support behind iPhone facial recognition, but I think this makes the case that the faces ARE similar... even if in ways that some people don't naturally detect.

BTW, if you've never heard of Prosopagnosia (face blindness), it is a fascinating disorder.

60 Minutes did a spot on this several years back:


So did Arrested Development. It was funnier then the 60 Minutes piece.
 
2018-01-01 02:49:32 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: Can someone please (condescendingly, as usual) explain to me again how this 3d face recognition is so much more secure than the crap systems we all disabled on our Android phones 3 years ago?


Let's compare the two.

Here's the NYTimes review of the current Galaxy Note 8:

Some of the biometrics, including the ability to unlock your phone by scanning your face or irises, are so poorly executed that they feel like marketing gimmicks as opposed to actual security features.

So what's the difference between FaceID and Android?

Android constantly gets fooled by simply holding up a picture of the user year after year.

FaceID isn't fooled by pictures or by video of the target user and also wasn't fooled by a Hollywood mask maker making a casts of someone's face.

A month ago, almost immediately after Apple announced Face ID, WIRED began scheming to spoof Apple's facial recognition system. We'd eventually enlist an experienced biometric hacker, a Hollywood face-caster and makeup artist, and our lead gadget reviewer David Pierce to serve as our would-be victim. We ultimately spent thousands of dollars on every material we could imagine to replicate Pierce's face, down to every dimple and eyebrow hair.

For any reader with face-hacking ambitions, let us now save you some time and cash: We failed.


So it's the difference between something trivially easy to spoof and something that is not.
 
2018-01-01 02:57:01 PM  
 
2018-01-01 03:02:52 PM  

abhorrent1: The Face ID hack is successful time and again...
Whatever is allowing this hack to work...

It's not a farking hack you stupid farking wanker. It's shiatty software


So it's a lifehack then? Lol sorry, sorry... I'll see myself out.
 
2018-01-01 03:48:44 PM  
I just press the button and hit swipe to unlock because I didn't put every personal detail of my life into something that I could leave in a bathroom by accident

frinkiac.comView Full Size
 
2018-01-01 04:41:12 PM  

BullBearMS: Some of the biometrics, including the ability to unlock your phone by scanning your face or irises, are so poorly executed that they feel like marketing gimmicks as opposed to actual security features.


Facial scans are marketing gimmicks. Use a password, people.
 
2018-01-01 05:00:05 PM  

trialpha: BullBearMS: Some of the biometrics, including the ability to unlock your phone by scanning your face or irises, are so poorly executed that they feel like marketing gimmicks as opposed to actual security features.

Facial scans are marketing gimmicks. Use a password, people.


Android's implementation of facial scans are a marketing gimmick that can be trivially fooled by holding up a simple photograph.

Hell, here's a guy pointing a Galaxy S8 at another phone displaying a picture of himself, and he could access everything including Samsung Pay.

Apple's implementation was not fooled by Hollywood special effects people working with biometric hackers to take a direct cast of the target's face, much less a simple photograph.
 
2018-01-01 05:01:27 PM  

BullBearMS: Android's implementation of facial scans are a marketing gimmick that can be trivially fooled by holding up a simple photograph.

Hell, here's a guy pointing a Galaxy S8 at another phone displaying a picture of himself, and he could access everything including Samsung Pay.

Apple's implementation was not fooled by Hollywood special effects people working with biometric hackers to take a direct cast of the target's face, much less a simple photograph.


Sorry, I'll rephrase. All facial scans, including Android's and Apple's, are marketing gimmicks. Use a password, people.
 
2018-01-01 05:03:01 PM  
Could I just use penis authentication instead?
 
2018-01-01 05:23:21 PM  

trialpha: Sorry, I'll rephrase. All facial scans, including Android's and Apple's, are marketing gimmicks.


Except for the part where all you have to do to fool Android is hold up a photo.

While Hollywood special effects guys casting masks from several different materials made directly from the target's face didn't fool the iPhone?

It's not a marketing gimmick when it actually works.
 
2018-01-01 05:37:44 PM  

BullBearMS: trialpha: BullBearMS: Some of the biometrics, including the ability to unlock your phone by scanning your face or irises, are so poorly executed that they feel like marketing gimmicks as opposed to actual security features.

Facial scans are marketing gimmicks. Use a password, people.

Android's implementation of facial scans are a marketing gimmick that can be trivially fooled by holding up a simple photograph.

Hell, here's a guy pointing a Galaxy S8 at another phone displaying a picture of himself, and he could access everything including Samsung Pay.

Apple's implementation was not fooled by Hollywood special effects people working with biometric hackers to take a direct cast of the target's face, much less a simple photograph.


At least Samsung tell you up front about facial recognition bring the least secure of the unlock methods.

Having a password is fine, but using iris scanning can be a lot more secure in public as you can't shoulder surf an iris scan like you could a password.  I'd definitely only have password enabled as an option going through any borders or airports though.
 
2018-01-01 05:39:40 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-01-01 05:58:20 PM  

trialpha: BullBearMS: Android's implementation of facial scans are a marketing gimmick that can be trivially fooled by holding up a simple photograph.

Hell, here's a guy pointing a Galaxy S8 at another phone displaying a picture of himself, and he could access everything including Samsung Pay.

Apple's implementation was not fooled by Hollywood special effects people working with biometric hackers to take a direct cast of the target's face, much less a simple photograph.

Sorry, I'll rephrase. All facial scans, including Android's and Apple's, are marketing gimmicks. Use a password, people.


How is it a gimmick if it actually works and serves a purpose?
 
2018-01-01 06:02:56 PM  

SpaceyCat: How the fark can you say those faces don't look alike?  Eyes, nose, and mouth are similarly spaced and sized.  Hair is similarly styled.  WTF!


You can if you're a D-list tech news site who really wants clicks!
 
2018-01-01 06:08:46 PM  

jake_lex: Hollie Maea: Vaginosilicosis: Can someone please (condescendingly, as usual) explain to me again how this 3d face recognition is so much more secure than the crap systems we all disabled on our Android phones 3 years ago?

Because Apple.

OK, serious answer, and I'll try not to be all that condescending: It really is a far more advanced system, because those systems basically just grabbed a snapshot of your face, and compared it to the image on file of you, and if it was close enough, it let you in.  This is doing a full, 3D scan of your face, so it's not really just comparing pics.


That feature debuted with the Galaxy Nexus, back in 2011. I got one on release day (I'm a fanboy enthusiast) and was really excited to try that feature out. The first thing I did after setting it up was print out a photo of my face from a mid-grad point-and-shoot camera on my run-of-the-mill, consumer-grade color printer. The photo unlocked my phone on the first try. Face ID has problems (and DEFINITELY isn't ready to replace Touch ID), but Trusted Face (Google's name for their old tech) should never have been included in production software.
 
2018-01-01 06:16:08 PM  

dj495ufj3: At least Samsung tell you up front about facial recognition bring the least secure of the unlock methods.


That warning was put in only after it became public knowledge that it was so trivial to fool their facial recognition.

Originally, they claimed it was more secure, not less.

clearly, Samsung's own Note 8 didn't get the memo -- because as you can hear in the video embedded above, the phone itself claims that Face Unlock is "more secure than using your PIN."
 
2018-01-01 06:20:15 PM  
 
2018-01-01 06:30:02 PM  
I just got an iPhone X. My wife and daughter can only open it with my password, but not with Face ID. Works for me.
 
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