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(Den Of Geek)   "Why the X-Men Don't Belong in the Marvel Cinematic Universe"   ( denofgeek.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Marvel Comics, Marvel Studios, Iceman, X-Men movie franchise, Marvel Studios films, main line X-Men, best Marvel films, Marvel Cinematic Universe  
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3637 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 07 Dec 2017 at 5:26 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-12-07 02:27:33 AM  
"Hey, X-Guys, where were you hiding while we were fighting extinction level events like the Chitauri, Ultron and Thanos?"
 
2017-12-07 02:45:23 AM  

fusillade762: "Hey, X-Guys, where were you hiding while we were fighting extinction level events like the Chitauri, Ultron and Thanos?"


"Rebuilding our school."
 
2017-12-07 03:07:54 AM  
Decent article. I honestly doubt they'd bring the mutants in any time soon.

Now the Fantastic Four, on the other hand...
 
2017-12-07 05:48:59 AM  
I'll bite, as a giant dork. A lot of the praise that the X movies get when they do something right is when they do something like the MCU anyway. Logan and Deadpool got praised because they were a superhero movie meets comedy/Western. That's the whole schtick of the MCU: other genre films with superheros in them. The other praise they get tends to be for Legion, which iirc was made in much closer coordination with marvel tv than any of the fox movies are. So while you create a whole bunch of potential continuity problems and confusion, I can't imagine most of it couldn't be solved by Marvel simply recasting and rebooting most mutant characters. Treat it like the Ultimate Universe was before it went off the rails. Mutants are a fairly new phenomenon, with only a handful of characters (wolverine, magneto, Xavier) being older than teenagers, with most mutants having been empowered for only a year or two at most. Have them be unpredictable with the when and how, and you can keep the public fear of them. Aliens attack New York, and then a few years later children start mutating all over the place? You bet they'd be feared and hated. You know, like Inhumans if they had been done well.
 
2017-12-07 06:12:30 AM  
I want a Colossus vs The Brood scene.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-12-07 06:14:01 AM  
I agree that it would be stupid to just drop them in as-is.  I don't think Marvel is that stupid.  The Infinity War could easily provide cover for some event to occur which triggers the x gene in humanity and mutants could begin appearing afterward.  New, younger actors who can carry the next stage of the MCU, hand-wave a few older mutants by saying that the x gene had been expressing itself on very rare occasions throughout human history, probably being responsible for old legends of great heroes in every culture and you cut out almost all the difficulty that the article considers.

Or if you really want to keep the Fox versions actors and lore you could just smoosh them together by having Infinity Wars take out a load-bearing dimension and the universes collapse into each other.
 
2017-12-07 06:25:00 AM  

fusillade762: "Hey, X-Guys, where were you hiding while we were fighting extinction level events like the Chitauri, Ultron and Thanos?"


78.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2017-12-07 06:44:28 AM  

fusillade762: "Hey, X-Guys, where were you hiding while we were fighting extinction level events like the Chitauri, Ultron and Thanos?"


they didn't want to get holocausted in trumperica.
 
2017-12-07 07:07:31 AM  
I don't want the X-Men or the Fantastic Four added to the MCU.  I don't believe the add any significant depth.

There, I said it.
 
2017-12-07 07:14:10 AM  
[ohmygodwhothehellcares.jpg]

Enough with the superhero movies, already. Time for a new shtick.
 
2017-12-07 07:20:17 AM  
MM-hmm, yeah, right, those are good points, but allow me to counter you:

Shut the hell up and give me a god damn Hulk vs. Wolverine movie.
 
2017-12-07 07:29:17 AM  

tarnok: I agree that it would be stupid to just drop them in as-is.


They already did in a way...

Helicarrier
Hydra Bob
 
2017-12-07 07:36:41 AM  

GardenWeasel: tarnok: I agree that it would be stupid to just drop them in as-is.

They already did in a way...

Helicarrier
Hydra Bob


Yeah, sort of.  But that was Fox who I fully believe are stupid enough to just drop them in as-is and it was Deadpool.  If the Marvel people can't explain away something continuity-breaking in a Deadpool movie it's time to pack it in.
 
2017-12-07 07:48:17 AM  
There are already mutants in the MCU, they just call them Inhumans. Yes I know they're not exactly the same comic thing, but in this universe, they're the obvious surrogate.

Plus, Wanda is the obvious way to introduce proper mutants to the universe. I'm sure nobody at Marvel has overlooked that.
 
2017-12-07 07:59:54 AM  
Personally, I think they NEED to stay separate from the MCU.

The problem I've always had with the X-men is that at its core, it's always been a hamfisted allegory about racism and xenophobia. Those are fine targets to deconstruct, and that works perfectly when the world consists of humans and  mutants. It makes sense.

On the other hand, even as it kid it bothered me that if both the Human Torch and Cyclops saved two kids trapped in a car, the parents would say:

"Thank you, flaming teenager!"

And then say:

 "Stay away from my kid, you laser eyed mutant!"

You CANNOT have the X-men be singled out in a WORLD of superpowered people:

"Hey, before you save me, I need to know if you got your powers in a lab mishap or if you were born with 'em. It makes a difference!"

The Cinematic X-men work precisely because they are the only ones who ARE different.

My two cents.
 
2017-12-07 08:04:22 AM  
After the current infinity stone story arc comes to an end, several key actors might are allegedly exiting the MCU.   Instead of recasting them, maybe Disney can just close the books on Earth 199999, give it a year or two break to focus on Star Wars Episode 9 and a new direction for that franchise, and start up a "new" MCU with FF and X-Men, all the while reintroducing characters from the previous properties.
 
2017-12-07 08:04:23 AM  

fusillade762: "Hey, X-Guys, where were you hiding while we were fighting extinction level events like the Chitauri, Ultron and Thanos?"


"We only gained our powers recently; we're Inhumans.  Society views as as freaks and dangerous, so we've been hiding.

"Thankfully, we found one of the older Inhumans -- someoen like Jiaying from Afterlife -- and he's been training us so that we can use our powers safely an for the benefit of mankind."

/or, it's a comic book universe-- they're from a parallel dimension
/or Thanos rewrites reality
/or any of the hundreds of other reasons comic books use to retconn shiat
 
2017-12-07 08:06:22 AM  
This uneasy distinction between born and bred mutants and the Marvel superheroes who are gifted their powers by luck or providence has always been confounding on the page and would undoubtedly be even more cumbersome to explain on the screen.

Some people are born with powers, some people develop powers, some people have no power and rely on exotic technology and training. There's no real conflict here, it's a magical universe.
 
2017-12-07 08:06:29 AM  
If they can make Guardians of the Galaxy really good, they should be able to make some great X-men movies. And writing them in wouldn't be that hard. That's probably the easiest thing.

They should just completely scrap all the Fox X-men movies. They had their moments but not worth keeping all of them. Only thing I was looking forward to Sansa as Jean Grey...

It's the only way they'll have an even bigger movie than infinity war, so that's exactly why it would happen.

IDGAF about Fantastic Four.
 
2017-12-07 08:15:04 AM  

fusillade762: "Hey, X-Guys, where were you hiding while we were fighting extinction level events like the Chitauri, Ultron and Thanos?"


This is easy to fix. The mutants are from an alternate, but very similar dimension, BOOM.. The FOX Dimension, if you will. Marvel Studios do an entire film (Avengers, maybe), about the two dimensions melding together and BLAM, X-Men are now officially a part of the MCU.

Then, 10 years or so down the road, when your casts have aged beyond their characters, you reboot the whole universe with new actors and KA-BLAMMO!  What? What? The X-Men were ALWAYS a part of the MCU? Sweet.

Easy peasy.
 
2017-12-07 08:15:35 AM  
They're gonna reboot the whole MCU after Avengers IV.
Just save 'em for that and they can get in on the ground floor.
 
2017-12-07 08:27:11 AM  
One of the reasons MCU succeeded was because they had to rely on making lesser well known characters work rather than churn out movie after movie of the characters everyone already knew.  A movie about the Guardians of the Galaxy would have had a harder time if Iron Man hadn't already reset people's expectations on superhero movies.  Granted, Iron Man was made well served by Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 1/2 success, but the proceeding movies worked better without relying on Spider-Man as a character.
 
2017-12-07 08:29:51 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: This uneasy distinction between born and bred mutants and the Marvel superheroes who are gifted their powers by luck or providence has always been confounding on the page and would undoubtedly be even more cumbersome to explain on the screen.

Some people are born with powers, some people develop powers, some people have no power and rely on exotic technology and training. There's no real conflict here, it's a magical universe.


You said it yourself, it's a magical world, yet the X-men are invariably singled out as targets because Marvel wants to make a statement about "racism" in various forms.

It's a worthy goal, it's just that for some of us it's clumsily implemented. :)
 
2017-12-07 08:34:55 AM  
I just want a good Dr.Doom representation. The MCU would allow that. Ironman tech with Dr Strange magic in a European dictator?? No problem!
 
2017-12-07 08:44:12 AM  

MaxTigar: I just want a good Dr.Doom representation. The MCU would allow that. Ironman tech with Dr Strange magic in a European dictator?? No problem!


I'd love to see the FF work their way into the MCU, and that shouldn't be too tough.  The rivalry between Stark and Reed Richards could be very fun on screen.
 
2017-12-07 08:47:43 AM  
Don't mutants already sort of exist in the MCU? Wasn't there an AoS ep that dealt with a fire guy? Yes, I know the tv and movie sides don't play nice with each other but still.
/Would be funny if Deadpool makes a comment about how Cable and Thanos look alike
 
2017-12-07 08:48:41 AM  

Truncks1: If they can make Guardians of the Galaxy really good, they should be able to make some great X-men movies. And writing them in wouldn't be that hard. That's probably the easiest thing.

They should just completely scrap all the Fox X-men movies. They had their moments but not worth keeping all of them. Only thing I was looking forward to Sansa as Jean Grey...

It's the only way they'll have an even bigger movie than infinity war, so that's exactly why it would happen.

IDGAF about Fantastic Four.


The treasure trove with the Fantastic Four property isn't the superhero team. It's the fact that it comes with Dr Doom, Galactus, and Silver Surfer.

It's the villains.....Dr Doom Galactus
 
2017-12-07 08:51:29 AM  

chuggernaught: I don't want the X-Men or the Fantastic Four added to the MCU.  I don't believe the add any significant depth.


The Thing is kind of a big deal as a glue character in the regular Marvel universe. His past history with all the back issues of Marvel Two in One and even just the poker nights give a lot of interconnectedness to a lot of characters that otherwise are tough to pair together.

Stark Tower would be a great Baxter Building.

Having mutants around gives us a lot of easy origin stories, especially since.

... and then there's the villains. Specifically, Dr. Doom and Magneto, but also Psycho Man, Hate Monger, Annihilus, Blastaar, Juggernaut, the Brood and the Badoon, Mr. Sinister, the Shi'ar Royal Guard, the Hellfire Club and Marauders.
 
2017-12-07 08:51:52 AM  

MechaPyx: Truncks1: If they can make Guardians of the Galaxy really good, they should be able to make some great X-men movies. And writing them in wouldn't be that hard. That's probably the easiest thing.

They should just completely scrap all the Fox X-men movies. They had their moments but not worth keeping all of them. Only thing I was looking forward to Sansa as Jean Grey...

It's the only way they'll have an even bigger movie than infinity war, so that's exactly why it would happen.

IDGAF about Fantastic Four.

The treasure trove with the Fantastic Four property isn't the superhero team. It's the fact that it comes with Dr Doom, Galactus, and Silver Surfer.


FTFM. That'll teach me to hit post with previewing it first. =P
 
2017-12-07 08:59:36 AM  

RogueWallEnthusiast: I want a Colossus vs The Brood scene.
[img.fark.net image 400x562][View Full Size image _x_]


That's some Liefeld level art right there
 
2017-12-07 09:00:30 AM  

MechaPyx: Truncks1: If they can make Guardians of the Galaxy really good, they should be able to make some great X-men movies. And writing them in wouldn't be that hard. That's probably the easiest thing.

They should just completely scrap all the Fox X-men movies. They had their moments but not worth keeping all of them. Only thing I was looking forward to Sansa as Jean Grey...

It's the only way they'll have an even bigger movie than infinity war, so that's exactly why it would happen.

IDGAF about Fantastic Four.

The treasure trove with the Fantastic Four property isn't the superhero team. It's the fact that it comes with Dr Doom, Galactus, and Silver Surfer.

It's the villains.....Dr Doom Galactus


I agree with that. Guess I'm just soured on them after all the failed attempts. The villains would be great.
 
2017-12-07 09:01:06 AM  
The Singer X-men don't belong in the MCU. But they will all be tossed out anyway. The only one that can stay from the current crop is Deadpool, and he's the easiest to move over. Aside from DP even the good Fox Xmen movies are terrible adaptations.
 
2017-12-07 09:03:16 AM  
This is a great time to reboot for both franchises if the deal goes through. Now that Jackman is gone as Wolverine, the X universe has lost one of its tentpoles anyway. Now that the MCU is aging out some of its
stars, they can do a hard reboot of the X men and a soft reboot of the main Marvel Universe.
 
2017-12-07 09:03:22 AM  
Mutants have been hiding all this time among humans scared to show their powers for fear of prosecution. Xavier decides that with all the superheroes running these days, it is time for the mutants to finally come out in the open. He creates the Xmen to be ambassadors to the rest of humanity.

Xavier's friend Magneto opposes the plan, and fears that it endangers a secret refuge he has created for mutants (Genosha).
 
2017-12-07 09:06:20 AM  

likefunbutnot: Stark Tower would be a great Baxter Building.


Interesting that he (Stark) just recently sold it...maybe Marvel knows more than they're letting on.
 
2017-12-07 09:09:00 AM  
Oh fer Chrissakes, would Fox and Marvel just kiss and get it over with...
 
2017-12-07 09:11:28 AM  

Truncks1: If they can make Guardians of the Galaxy really good, they should be able to make some great X-men movies. And writing them in wouldn't be that hard. That's probably the easiest thing.


it all comes down to character selection.  Especially in the first few movies, it felt like they were trying to concentrate on characters that did not have a lot of makeup/CGi needs.  Sure, they need some SPFX, but Nightcrawler and Colossus should have been full members from the very beginning.  if the freakin WB can have a low rent Colossus on Legends of Tomorrow, there's zero reason for him to not be a full fledged X-man by now.

Second, casting.  Fassbender made an interesting Magneto, but the X people (except Xavier) were uniformly awful.  My biggest problem was Storm.  She's supposed to be a very strong, very caring, warm woman, but in the movies she's distant, aloof, almost disinterested.  The only character they seemed to care about at all was Wolverine, and they never got that really right either.  I know these are reimaginings, but imagine better, people.
 
2017-12-07 09:14:42 AM  

ocendot: likefunbutnot: Stark Tower would be a great Baxter Building.

Interesting that he (Stark) just recently sold it...maybe Marvel knows more than they're letting on.


Their spider sense was tingling.
 
2017-12-07 09:16:16 AM  

GardenWeasel: tarnok: I agree that it would be stupid to just drop them in as-is.

They already did in a way...

Helicarrier
Hydra Bob


I haven't seen him since that TGI Friday's...
 
2017-12-07 09:17:16 AM  

Great_Milenko: The only character they seemed to care about at all was Wolverine, and they never got that really right either.  I know these are reimaginings, but imagine better, people.


I would have to say that Logan was the best Marvel movie that I have seen. Of course, I don't like "super-hero" movies for the most part (the ones that take themselves seriously), so maybe our criteria are different.

Logan reminds me a LOT of Children of Men.
 
2017-12-07 09:17:23 AM  

Great_Milenko: Truncks1: If they can make Guardians of the Galaxy really good, they should be able to make some great X-men movies. And writing them in wouldn't be that hard. That's probably the easiest thing.

it all comes down to character selection.  Especially in the first few movies, it felt like they were trying to concentrate on characters that did not have a lot of makeup/CGi needs.  Sure, they need some SPFX, but Nightcrawler and Colossus should have been full members from the very beginning.  if the freakin WB can have a low rent Colossus on Legends of Tomorrow, there's zero reason for him to not be a full fledged X-man by now.

Second, casting.  Fassbender made an interesting Magneto, but the X people (except Xavier) were uniformly awful.  My biggest problem was Storm.  She's supposed to be a very strong, very caring, warm woman, but in the movies she's distant, aloof, almost disinterested.  The only character they seemed to care about at all was Wolverine, and they never got that really right either.  I know these are reimaginings, but imagine better, people.


One if my favorites as a kid was Cyclops and they just took a giant shiat over his whole character. He is supposed to be a great leader and mentor to the mutants, and he just seemed like a whiny, petty biatch that was just there so Wolverine could make fun of him and steal his girl.
 
2017-12-07 09:19:14 AM  
The x-men are in the mcu. After each adventure, Xavier uses cerebro to compel the world's population  to repair the damage, put everything back to normal, then erases their knowledge of it and the mutants.

He also erased the world's knowledge of the Fantastic Four movie events because, well, they sucked.
 
2017-12-07 09:37:36 AM  
I'm kind of hoping that if/when this all goes down, the only FOX films to survive the reboot are Deadpool and Logan.
 
2017-12-07 09:46:12 AM  
I'd be just fine if there was no mutants in the MCU, I think the biggest take away would be the villains they get, all the FF villains and there is quite a few X-Men villains that would work in the MCU, like Juggernaut and Omega Red.
 
2017-12-07 09:49:29 AM  

bisi: [ohmygodwhothehellcares.jpg]

Enough with the superhero movies, already. Time for a new shtick.


You're right; you do need a new one.
 
2017-12-07 09:50:45 AM  
Marvel Phase 4

Avengers 4 is over, all star cast is done.
A perfect time to introduce the X-men original team to the MCU.
No hold over casting, no continuity with Fox, and only the slightest of origin stories.
No "Where were you?" More hi we are here now.

I was never a Deadpool fan (too 90s for me, however I loved the movie) but they can just let deadpool be it's own thing. A Deadpool, "what if" universe.
 
2017-12-07 09:51:14 AM  
You know what though, they wouldn't haveto address 'why have we never seen mutants before.' They could do a fresh introduction - hey these kids have powers, they must be Inhumans, hey wait they're not because it's genetic from birth and holy smokes we have an evolution of humanity on our hands, etc.

I'm sure the Marvel folk can do better than that, but there are workable introductions even just off the top of your head.
 
2017-12-07 09:51:24 AM  

Nakadashi: HotWingConspiracy: This uneasy distinction between born and bred mutants and the Marvel superheroes who are gifted their powers by luck or providence has always been confounding on the page and would undoubtedly be even more cumbersome to explain on the screen.

Some people are born with powers, some people develop powers, some people have no power and rely on exotic technology and training. There's no real conflict here, it's a magical universe.

You said it yourself, it's a magical world, yet the X-men are invariably singled out as targets because Marvel wants to make a statement about "racism" in various forms.


These things aren't in conflict though. Here in the real world people hate other people for a nearly endless list of reasons.
 
2017-12-07 09:54:42 AM  

Truncks1: Great_Milenko: Truncks1: If they can make Guardians of the Galaxy really good, they should be able to make some great X-men movies. And writing them in wouldn't be that hard. That's probably the easiest thing.

it all comes down to character selection.  Especially in the first few movies, it felt like they were trying to concentrate on characters that did not have a lot of makeup/CGi needs.  Sure, they need some SPFX, but Nightcrawler and Colossus should have been full members from the very beginning.  if the freakin WB can have a low rent Colossus on Legends of Tomorrow, there's zero reason for him to not be a full fledged X-man by now.

Second, casting.  Fassbender made an interesting Magneto, but the X people (except Xavier) were uniformly awful.  My biggest problem was Storm.  She's supposed to be a very strong, very caring, warm woman, but in the movies she's distant, aloof, almost disinterested.  The only character they seemed to care about at all was Wolverine, and they never got that really right either.  I know these are reimaginings, but imagine better, people.

One if my favorites as a kid was Cyclops and they just took a giant shiat over his whole character. He is supposed to be a great leader and mentor to the mutants, and he just seemed like a whiny, petty biatch that was just there so Wolverine could make fun of him and steal his girl.


Colossus and Cyclops have been criminally under represented.
I did appreciate Colossus in Deadpool, but it didn't make up for X-men 3.
How are you going to have Colossus and Juggernaut in the same movie and they never fight? Inconceivable!
 
2017-12-07 09:57:31 AM  
This is just and right punishment for Brett Ratner going homophobe on Ellen Page
 
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