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(CNN)   FDA warns of "deadly risks" associated with non-addictive, herbal competitor to synthetic opioids   ( cnn.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Opioid, kratom, Drug addiction, opioid withdrawal symptoms, active ingredients, Addiction, Heroin, Commissioner Scott Gottlieb  
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2461 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Nov 2017 at 2:08 AM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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5 days ago  
Instead, he said, the FDA is concerned that the use of kratom could actually "expand the opioid epidemic."

The new catch all for any competition to the opiate industry. It's like they want a nation of addicts.
 
5 days ago  
FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

"Are there any studies pending?"
"And risk my stock portfolio and future no show job at GSK? Fark no"
 
5 days ago  
A pain remedy used for centuries in Southeast Asia is not safe for the US.

That makes total sense!
 
5 days ago  

whither_apophis: FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

"Are there any studies pending?"
"And risk my stock portfolio and future no show job at GSK? Fark no"


no clinical trials have been conducted in the United States

"We know almost nothing about it so it must be deadly!"
 
5 days ago  
Why is our Government allowed to lie to our faces and face no repercussion?

If we have no choice but to endure constant abuse and fraud by our government and corporations. what freedom do we really have?
 
5 days ago  

fusillade762: whither_apophis: FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

"Are there any studies pending?"
"And risk my stock portfolio and future no show job at GSK? Fark no"

no clinical trials have been conducted in the United States

"We know almost nothing about it so it must be deadly!"


The FDA's job is to restrict labeling and advertising of pharmaceuticals to things that have been scientifically validated. If you claim something has a benefit, you must prove it. Further, they demand testing of side effects and toxicity.

This goofy crap that makes the FDA the enemy is being pushed by people who don't have a clue about the role of the FDA. They aren't in bed with pharma. They are in bed with science. This is an example. Until there are legitimate studies with samples that are produced in a controlled and documented way, this is snake oil. They should warn against it.
 
5 days ago  

Free Radical: A pain remedy used for centuries in Southeast Asia is not safe for the US.

That makes total sense!


Indeed it does, because it can't make stockholders for pharma companies obscenely wealthy. And if it can't make rich people richer, it automatically is unsafe for the USA.
 
5 days ago  
Also, never heard of Kratom before today.
 
5 days ago  

Free Radical: A pain remedy used for centuries in Southeast Asia is not safe for the US.

That makes total sense!


And coconut oil is bad for your heart, according to the guys who pimped margarine as "healthy" for decades.
 
5 days ago  

Free Radical: A pain remedy used for centuries in Southeast Asia is not safe for the US.

That makes total sense!


They also eat tiger penises as an aphrodisiac and used rhino horns to cure aches. Just because they have been doing something in Southeast Asia for centuries doesn't automatically mean it isn't complete horseshiat. I'm not even saying this herb isn't effective, I have no clue if it is, just lets have realistic expectations regarding the efficacy of some of these natural old school cures.
 
5 days ago  
How is a chemical with withdrawal symptoms non-addictive?
 
4 days ago  

wademh: fusillade762: whither_apophis: FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

"Are there any studies pending?"
"And risk my stock portfolio and future no show job at GSK? Fark no"

no clinical trials have been conducted in the United States

"We know almost nothing about it so it must be deadly!"

The FDA's job is to restrict labeling and advertising of pharmaceuticals to things that have been scientifically validated. If you claim something has a benefit, you must prove it. Further, they demand testing of side effects and toxicity.

This goofy crap that makes the FDA the enemy is being pushed by people who don't have a clue about the role of the FDA. They aren't in bed with pharma. They are in bed with science. This is an example. Until there are legitimate studies with samples that are produced in a controlled and documented way, this is snake oil. They should warn against it.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
4 days ago  
Yeah lets get mad at the FDA and go on wild conspiracy theories because an untested quack herb isn't approved.  Totally makes sense...
/sarcasm
 
4 days ago  

nmrsnr: How is a chemical with withdrawal symptoms non-addictive?


Chances are that most chemicals that relieve pain like this by working on the opioid receptors are going to be addictive, as well as reducing pain and opioid withdrawal symptoms when taken.
 
4 days ago  

SwiftFox: nmrsnr: How is a chemical with withdrawal symptoms non-addictive?

Chances are that most chemicals that relieve pain like this by working on the opioid receptors are going to be addictive, as well as reducing pain and opioid withdrawal symptoms when taken.


That, and according to a CNN article a few weeks back, unless you abuse the hell out of it, withdrawal symptoms are similar in strength to caffeine withdrawal; and why some people are apparently turning to it to kick their oxy habit.

/And now you know everything I've read/know on this subject.
 
4 days ago  
I'm always amazed at people who believe that the govt is in bed with large corporations to make money but people pushing herbs and what not are angels with big shiny halos that only have your best interests at heart. The new age people make money hand over fist, probably more than legit companies because they don't have to run clinical studies and pay scientist salaries, all of which costs money.
 
4 days ago  
I've heard about this stuff over the years.  Too bad I've been on methadone for more than a decade.  That means I will have to get back on the junk for a few weeks before jumping to the kratom. And hopefully by then this sh*t will have made it's way out of my bone marrow.

/
 
4 days ago  
Get yourself a peer reviewed, double blind study proving it works and the FDA will be more than happy to slap an "Approved" label on it.
 
4 days ago  
Willful Ignorance is truly Americas Finest Global Export, huh?

I honestly can't fathom the depth of teh dumb behind the reasoning about this worsening the opioid crisis.

Oh yeah, it's pharma bucks, not willful ignorance. Silly me.
 
4 days ago  

whither_apophis: FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

"Are there any studies pending?"
"And risk my stock portfolio and future no show job at GSK? Fark no"


If you want to use wish power instead of drugs, go ahead.
He's just pointing out that's what you're doing.
 
4 days ago  
From the FDA's website:

"Dr. Gottlieb was previously a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and a Clinical Assistant Professor at the New York University School of Medicine in Manhattan, where he also practiced medicine as a hospitalist physician."

AEI = right wing think tank.

It's all well and good to say that more research needs to be done on this stuff, but don't act like Dr. Gottlieb is some objective scientist only interested in protecting the public.
 
4 days ago  

wademh: fusillade762: whither_apophis: FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

"Are there any studies pending?"
"And risk my stock portfolio and future no show job at GSK? Fark no"

no clinical trials have been conducted in the United States

"We know almost nothing about it so it must be deadly!"

The FDA's job is to restrict labeling and advertising of pharmaceuticals to things that have been scientifically validated. If you claim something has a benefit, you must prove it. Further, they demand testing of side effects and toxicity.

This goofy crap that makes the FDA the enemy is being pushed by people who don't have a clue about the role of the FDA. They aren't in bed with pharma. They are in bed with science. This is an example. Until there are legitimate studies with samples that are produced in a controlled and documented way, this is snake oil. They should warn against it.


Bollocks. Show me a package, or advertisement, or company that is actually labelling Kratom products 'A safe opiod addiction treatment'

Otherwise, it's really a terrible argument you make.
 
4 days ago  

uttertosh: opiod


Minus the stupid typos, of course.
 
4 days ago  

ds615: If you want to use wish power instead of drugs, go ahead.
He's just pointing out that's what you're doing.


This sentiment is in the whole f*cking thread. People have used it sucessfully for centuries, but the FDA doesn't approve yet and all you can say is "This is nothing but snakeoil and unicorn farts, Pshaw!!"

/I know, I know. Wellpissing is a fark tradition, amarite?
//cannabis doesn't cure anything.
 
4 days ago  

uttertosh: This sentiment is in the whole f*cking thread. People have used it sucessfully for centuries,


So go make a clinical study methodically documenting it's effectiveness and safety. Should be easy if what you believe is true.
 
4 days ago  
"It's very troubling to the FDA that patients believe they can use kratom to treat opioid withdrawal symptoms," FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

I'm probably not viewed as "reliable evidence", but kratom does help you get thru the withdrawals of opioid addiction. Sure, it's like eating dust and it smells like the floor of a cab, but it does lessen the symptoms enough so you can live a normal life while coming off vicodins.
 
4 days ago  

uttertosh: wademh: fusillade762: whither_apophis: FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

"Are there any studies pending?"
"And risk my stock portfolio and future no show job at GSK? Fark no"

no clinical trials have been conducted in the United States

"We know almost nothing about it so it must be deadly!"

The FDA's job is to restrict labeling and advertising of pharmaceuticals to things that have been scientifically validated. If you claim something has a benefit, you must prove it. Further, they demand testing of side effects and toxicity.

This goofy crap that makes the FDA the enemy is being pushed by people who don't have a clue about the role of the FDA. They aren't in bed with pharma. They are in bed with science. This is an example. Until there are legitimate studies with samples that are produced in a controlled and documented way, this is snake oil. They should warn against it.

Bollocks. Show me a package, or advertisement, or company that is actually labelling Kratom products 'A safe opiod addiction treatment'

Otherwise, it's really a terrible argument you make.


"Mitragynine is used to gradual wean the user off narcotics."

http://www.mitragyna.com/usage

/two minutes with google
 
4 days ago  
I'm afraid that not buying a BMW is increasing the opioid epidemic so BMWs for all!
 
4 days ago  

wademh: They aren't in bed with pharma. They are in bed with science.


lol please

All of our agencies are in bed with the huge companies they regulate. Haven't you figured that out yet?
 
4 days ago  

Bootysama: Free Radical: A pain remedy used for centuries in Southeast Asia is not safe for the US.

That makes total sense!

They also eat tiger penises as an aphrodisiac and used rhino horns to cure aches. Just because they have been doing something in Southeast Asia for centuries doesn't automatically mean it isn't complete horseshiat. I'm not even saying this herb isn't effective, I have no clue if it is, just lets have realistic expectations regarding the efficacy of some of these natural old school cures.


Came here to say the same thing, so I'll have to settle for smarting your post.
 
4 days ago  

uttertosh: ds615: If you want to use wish power instead of drugs, go ahead.
He's just pointing out that's what you're doing.

This sentiment is in the whole f*cking thread. People have used it sucessfully for centuries, but the FDA doesn't approve yet and all you can say is "This is nothing but snakeoil and unicorn farts, Pshaw!!"

/I know, I know. Wellpissing is a fark tradition, amarite?
//cannabis doesn't cure anything.


http://www.businessinsider.com/health​-​benefits-of-medical-marijuana-2014-4/#​it-can-be-used-to-treat-glaucoma-1
 
4 days ago  
If pot-head science says it works that's good enough for me.
 
4 days ago  

jaytkay: uttertosh: This sentiment is in the whole f*cking thread. People have used it sucessfully for centuries,

So go make a clinical study methodically documenting it's effectiveness and safety. Should be easy if what you believe is true.


You're right, of course. I should totally go round up the numerous people who are no longer addicted to heroin because they got off it using this plant, and tell them that they should have just gone to jail, or moved on to fentanyl, or something. THAT PLANT HASN'T BEEN STUDIED BY AMERICANS YET!!!

yeah. It's obviously just snake oil. Placebos are soooo well known for effectively combating opiate addiction. That's why sugar tablets are $40 a pop off-script, yo!

Wait.... how easy is it to grow, and is the plant itself illegal?
 
4 days ago  

SwiftFox: nmrsnr: How is a chemical with withdrawal symptoms non-addictive?

Chances are that most chemicals that relieve pain like this by working on the opioid receptors are going to be addictive, as well as reducing pain and opioid withdrawal symptoms when taken.


I was gonna say that if this stuff is non addictive, it's a placebo for the reasons you mention
 
4 days ago  

kieran57: Bollocks. Show me a package, or advertisement, or company that is actually labelling Kratom products 'A safe opiod addiction treatment'

Otherwise, it's really a terrible argument you make.

"Mitragynine is used to gradual wean the user off narcotics."

http://www.mitragyna.com/usage


They warn against taking it without medical consultation for those purposes, though.

Isn't that pretty much the same as St John's Wort? [nobody should take that ever, IMHO]
 
4 days ago  
"It's very troubling to the FDA that patients believe they can use kratom to treat opioid withdrawal symptoms," FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

Kratom helped me get off of pain killers. Seeing is believing, and I was a first hand witness to how much it helped.
 
4 days ago  

uttertosh: wademh: fusillade762: whither_apophis: FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

"Are there any studies pending?"
"And risk my stock portfolio and future no show job at GSK? Fark no"

no clinical trials have been conducted in the United States

"We know almost nothing about it so it must be deadly!"

The FDA's job is to restrict labeling and advertising of pharmaceuticals to things that have been scientifically validated. If you claim something has a benefit, you must prove it. Further, they demand testing of side effects and toxicity.

This goofy crap that makes the FDA the enemy is being pushed by people who don't have a clue about the role of the FDA. They aren't in bed with pharma. They are in bed with science. This is an example. Until there are legitimate studies with samples that are produced in a controlled and documented way, this is snake oil. They should warn against it.

Bollocks. Show me a package, or advertisement, or company that is actually labelling Kratom products 'A safe opiod addiction treatment'

Otherwise, it's really a terrible argument you make.


Actually I wouldn't be surprised they use weasel words to for instance claim it is safe for opoid treatment
 
4 days ago  
There seems to be a hazy, smoky thought process at work in this thread that concludes that the only choces for pain relief are kratom and opioids.

There are much better alternatives to opioids that an herbal supplement that may cause organ damage.

/ Herbal does not mean safe.
 
4 days ago  

Harlee: uttertosh: ds615: If you want to use wish power instead of drugs, go ahead.
He's just pointing out that's what you're doing.

This sentiment is in the whole f*cking thread. People have used it sucessfully for centuries, but the FDA doesn't approve yet and all you can say is "This is nothing but snakeoil and unicorn farts, Pshaw!!"

/I know, I know. Wellpissing is a fark tradition, amarite?
//cannabis doesn't cure anything.

http://www.businessinsider.com/health-​benefits-of-medical-marijuana-2014-4/#​it-can-be-used-to-treat-glaucoma-1


It can also be used to treat asthma, depression, insomnia, anxiety, anorexia, epilepsy, MS, etc.

Cure? Not a thing. None. Not one thing it cures. Zip. Nada.

But it's a DAMNED good treatment for SO many things!
 
4 days ago  

Nadie_AZ: "It's very troubling to the FDA that patients believe they can use kratom to treat opioid withdrawal symptoms," FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

Kratom helped me get off of pain killers. Seeing is believing, and I was a first hand witness to how much it helped.


And if you can't believe an anonymous testimonial on the internet, what CAN you believe, folks?
 
4 days ago  

Free Radical: A pain remedy used for centuries in Southeast Asia is not safe for the US.


The Romans used lead as a sweetener for thousands of years. Good enough for me!
 
4 days ago  

Fano: Nadie_AZ: "It's very troubling to the FDA that patients believe they can use kratom to treat opioid withdrawal symptoms," FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

Kratom helped me get off of pain killers. Seeing is believing, and I was a first hand witness to how much it helped.

And if you can't believe an anonymous testimonial on the internet, what CAN you believe, folks?


Oh I'm not suggesting you believe me. I'm just saying that I was a skeptic before I tried.
I hope they spend the time and money to study it.
 
4 days ago  

Bootysama: They also eat tiger penises as an aphrodisiac and used rhino horns to cure aches.


On the other hand, there's a shiatload of southeast Asians and they don't seem to have acne.
 
4 days ago  

This text is now purple: Free Radical: A pain remedy used for centuries in Southeast Asia is not safe for the US.

The Romans used lead as a sweetener for thousands of years. Good enough for me!


Which is why I'm all on board with actually testing things. Research and development, funded by the Government. Fund the sciences!
 
4 days ago  

holdmybones: Instead, he said, the FDA is concerned that the use of kratom could actually "expand the opioid epidemic."

The new catch all for any competition to the opiate industry. It's like they want a nation of addicts.


But why wou... oh.
 
4 days ago  

SwiftFox: nmrsnr: How is a chemical with withdrawal symptoms non-addictive?

Chances are that most chemicals that relieve pain like this by working on the opioid receptors are going to be addictive, as well as reducing pain and opioid withdrawal symptoms when taken.


Based upon its effects and what it competes with locally, kratom is knock-off coke, not knock-off opium.

\Cocaine is also a painkiller
 
4 days ago  

duckpoopy: If pot-head science says it works that's good enough for me.


Pot head-science?
 
4 days ago  

Nadie_AZ: "It's very troubling to the FDA that patients believe they can use kratom to treat opioid withdrawal symptoms," FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

Kratom helped me get off of pain killers. Seeing is believing, and I was a first hand witness to how much it helped.


Thanks for sharing that. I've plenty of anecdotes about folks in my community being helped by it. It's, by all accounts miles more effective than methadone/subatex, with far less risk of re-addiction.

The best results I've heard of was a buddy who followed up with Shroom therapy for a few months after quitting. Said it was like a 'Reset' of his brain.
 
4 days ago  
uttertosh:

Username checks out. Look, I've worked with FDA toxicology scientists. I couldn't so much  as buy them a coffee. It's not this conspiracy you imagine. And by the way, I wasn't working toward any drug approval or anything like that, it was pure science on mechanisms of toxicology. You really shouldn't use ignorance as the foundation for your spiel.
 
4 days ago  

Nadie_AZ: Fano: Nadie_AZ: "It's very troubling to the FDA that patients believe they can use kratom to treat opioid withdrawal symptoms," FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a statement. "There is no reliable evidence to support the use of kratom as a treatment for opioid use disorder."

Kratom helped me get off of pain killers. Seeing is believing, and I was a first hand witness to how much it helped.

And if you can't believe an anonymous testimonial on the internet, what CAN you believe, folks?

Oh I'm not suggesting you believe me. I'm just saying that I was a skeptic before I tried.
I hope they spend the time and money to study it.



Yes, all of this. Except, you know, the merry prankster playing skeptic for some reason.
 
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