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(Yahoo)   Now there're some folk 'round these parts who'll tell ya they remember a time when the "days since a mass shooting" sign sometimes had two digits on it, but, I think they must be very old, or very great liars   ( yahoo.com) divider line
    More: News, television station KCRA, Police, Rancho Tehama School, Tehama County Assistant, Tehama County Sheriff, shooting spree, Tehama County, California, Sheriff Phil Johnston  
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6849 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2017 at 3:41 PM (4 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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4 days ago  

69gnarkill69: [img.fark.net image 500x300]
Posting gun violence outrage on Fark is the new "Thoughts and Prayers"


Yeah.  Sure.  Right.  Too early to talk about it?
 
4 days ago  

Magorn: Sean M: If only it were illegal to kill someone... because laws um...stop people from doing things, right?

In seriousness, this crap HAS gone on.  It's with social media & the internet that we hear about every single incident now vs. in the past.  Flip through some old newspapers.  Sadly, this is NOT a new problem.

We do not pass laws because we magically expect that once passed they will be obeyed 100% of the time.  We pass laws as a statement of our shared societal values, to deter certain behaviors among the lawfully inclined and punish those behaviors among the criminally inclined


The lawfully inclined are not currently inclined to be felons, obtain guns illegally, kill their neighbors, go on shooting sprees, murder innocents, and engage in firefights with police.
We do, in fact, already have laws against all those things. Our society has spoken pretty clearly on the matter.
I blame people who are soft on crime. Make the penalty for committing a gun crime so horrible that nobody will want to do it. Like flaying in the public square with the victims' families getting to rub rock salt into your wounds. As a gun owner, I'm pretty tired of being accused of being a threat just because some jerks somewhere else can't keep from doing crimes and their local prosecutors don't care to keep them away from polite society.

Mugato: My dad and I got our guns from gun shows when I was 16. I git a Walther ppk (James Bond) and a 9mm Beteretta (Lethal Weapon). My dad got a rifle. Neither of us had records but we weren't asked if we did either. All that shiat isn't going to change.

/the Walther PPk is much cooler than the Walther P99 that they switched to in The World is Not Enough.

No Way! People with big hands get cut open by the ppk and it's weak. The p99 is FAR better, as is the PP* series that came after it.
 
4 days ago  

Cthulhu Theory: HumanSVD: AdmirableSnackbar: The_Sponge: AdmirableSnackbar: If you don't like the proposals coming from the other side then propose some ideas of your own. Otherwise you're simply being intransigent and the "want these to continue" absolutely applies.

Those proposals coming from your side are infringements on our rights.....and earlier, you claimed that your side didn't want that:

AdmirableSnackbar: One side wants to reduce violence and has means that don't infringe on your rights

At least be honest and say that you guys want to take our rights away.

You want a proposal?  How about cleaning up the background check system?  Because it FAILED before the shooting in Texas.

I don't want to take your rights away. But considering how disgusting I find your attitude towards guns I'm not going to advocate against that action either. I'd like to find a compromise that works but gun nuts refuse those every single time. You're choosing this path and hate where it leads. I'd think you'd want to try a different path but here you are. I'm not gonna cry for you, you cry enough for yourself and your guns while good people who aren't you die. So no sympathy.

Enjoy crowing about all these deaths and lives forever altered. I hope it's worth it for you.

I do not want to take away your gun rights, but since you are a poopie head, I won't advocate against it.

In other words, you'd be cool with it.

Desiring something and being ok with something are two different things. Personally I enjoy shooting guns, but I have no desire to own one, nor do I find them particularly necessary. So, I'd be ok if every gun disappeared from the face of the planet, but I'm not going to advocate for it.


That level of nuance cannot be understood by some people. Critical thinking eludes then and when they see it it scares them so much that they think that person must need a therapist.
 
4 days ago  

vrax: Lars von Trier's "The Kingdom"

So as not to spoil anything for those who haven't seen it, I'll just say that the guy, a Swede, is not fond of Denmark.



Ah...thank you.

/Just mentioned Iceland because they were known for not being fond of Denmark.
 
4 days ago  

Keyser_Soze_Death: durbnpoisn: Keyser_Soze_Death: durbnpoisn: Markoff_Cheney: Columbine was the first big one in my lifetime, and it seemed like we didn't have another for a long stretch after that.  People aren't even talking about Vegas any more, I remember Columbine being front page news for 3+ months straight around here.

It wasn't just your lifetime.  That was the first time it ever happened.

Prior to that no one had ever considered shooting up a school.

[images.gr-assets.com image 308x475]

No one... Ever.

//Does 2 seconds of research...

Ok.  I stand corrected.
I don't think that exactly qualifies as a mass shooting by Columbine standards.

1966 University of Texas tower shooting (15 killed 32 injured)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universi​ty_of_Texas_tower_shooting

1922 Bath School disaster (44 killed 58 injured)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_Sch​ool_disaster


While a gun was used to detonate a bomb in a truck filled with shrapnel, there were no shooting deaths listed in the attack. The farmer did set off the bomb in his truck by shooting it and the bomb did send shrapnel flying through him, so maybe you get one shooting. But that's not a mass shooting.

School bombing, mass murder, murder-suicide, suicide truck bombing, arson
 
4 days ago  

Popular Opinion: Perlin Noise: Pet_Peve: I would like to know how outlawing guns would be anymore effective than outlawing drugs has been.

Well, lets start with the idea that the only thing they would have in common would be being illegal to posses, etc. So, if that's the only thing in common, we can make the exact same comparison to anything else illegal, like child porn. So, I take it you don't think it's worth the effort to try to minimize child porn by making it illegal?


/I'm so tired of the "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" argument. It's really really stupid.

it might be (stupid), but then look how murders and crime skyrocketed astronomically in Brazil after they made it nearly impossible for normal poor folks to own guns to defend themselves.

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels​/2016/03/28/472157969/brazil-has-nearl​y-60-000-murders-and-it-may-relax-gun-​laws


That's, at least, a better conversation.
 
4 days ago  

anustart: Okay, here's one that puts the lie to that silly contention:  Remove the "boyfriend loophole" that allows people in more that 30 states (who only get charged with assault instead of domestic assault because they don't live with the victim) to avoid being blacklisted from firearms ownership. If you are convicted of assaulting a relative or romantic partner, your guns should go away. Period. The living arrangements shouldn't matter.

The majority of mass shooting perpetrators in the United States have a history of family violence and were not legally prevented from owning a firearm. A majority of mass shooting victims from 2009 to 2015 were an intimate partner, ex-partner, or other family member of the shooter.


Maybe you need to worry about domestic violence reform. Or prosecutorial reform. Those would take care of gun reform without having to further infringe on a right that most people exercise responsibly.
The laws are there, we just need to use them.
 
4 days ago  

luckyeddie: Mikey1969: No, the farking point, for illiterate morons, is that jumping on the bandwagon and screaming the second the story comes i=out isn't accurate at all. If you notice, NO students at the school died, but these assholes are so happy to try and get a scoop, that they have the wrong farking information.

Kind of like you, I guess.

Are you saying that it only counts as a newsworthy item now if children are killed?

Just how farked up is that? Oh wait, you're American and an 'enthusiast'. Carry on then.


Nice try. Once again we get visited by the Fark illiteracy brigade.

I will type slowly this time so that maybe you can follow along....

News stories are often very inaccurate early on and a very fluid. This is a prime example of that, as evidenced by the links I posted. You, on the other hand, have some kind of outrage agenda to push, regardless of the stand taken by whomever you are talking to, which is an example of Fark's with us or against us trend. Two birds with one stone...
 
4 days ago  

ThatGuyOverThere: The lawfully inclined are not currently inclined to be felons, obtain guns illegally, kill their neighbors, go on shooting sprees, murder innocents, and engage in firefights with police.
We do, in fact, already have laws against all those things. Our society has spoken pretty clearly on the matter.


However, there are things we can do.  The Las Vegas shooter purchased a large number of rifles, but because only purchases of handguns get reported, he went under the radar.  These "little" things are what need to be shored up and reported as do stringent universal background checks for all transfers of ownership.  And fark the NRA and other assholes, we need a national database so these things can be done with efficiency instead of being stuck back in the dark ages.
 
4 days ago  
Never been to Tehama, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express in Corning in September.
 
4 days ago  

HumanSVD: Perlin Noise: Pet_Peve: I would like to know how outlawing guns would be anymore effective than outlawing drugs has been.

Well, lets start with the idea that the only thing they would have in common would be being illegal to posses, etc. So, if that's the only thing in common, we can make the exact same comparison to anything else illegal, like child porn. So, I take it you don't think it's worth the effort to try to minimize child porn by making it illegal?


/I'm so tired of the "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" argument. It's really really stupid.

You hate it because it is true. Mexico is a prime example of it.


Um, agree with what? I don't recall agreeing with anything. Oh, you mean that outlaws will have guns? Um, no shiat.
 
4 days ago  

AdmirableSnackbar: Considering how many gun nuts vote Republican therefore against better education, socioeconomic mobility, and ending the war on drugs that would help reduce gun violence I find their (and by extension your) arguments about reducing gun violence disingenuous. They're giving those of us who care about human beings very few options.


Democrats have a few fine ideas, yet so long as they have "gun control" as a key plank in the national party platform, I'll hold my nose and vote Republican.
 
4 days ago  

vrax: ThatGuyOverThere: The lawfully inclined are not currently inclined to be felons, obtain guns illegally, kill their neighbors, go on shooting sprees, murder innocents, and engage in firefights with police.
We do, in fact, already have laws against all those things. Our society has spoken pretty clearly on the matter.

However, there are things we can do.  The Las Vegas shooter purchased a large number of rifles, but because only purchases of handguns get reported, he went under the radar.  These "little" things are what need to be shored up and reported as do stringent universal background checks for all transfers of ownership.  And fark the NRA and other assholes, we need a national database so these things can be done with efficiency instead of being stuck back in the dark ages.


I think the best thing we can do is to deny ANY public funding to the NRA and its subsidiaries from any level of government.

Since the NRA thinks law enforcement officers are jack-booted thugs, they have no business being paid to train law enforcement officers or citizens.

They can do so on the private dime.
 
4 days ago  

The_Sponge: xalres: Spongey's not much of an "idea" guy, so much as a "NO!" guy.


Oh really?  Because in the past I've said that we need to clean up the background check system, make it easier to black list people with severe mental problems.  (My younger brother is mentally ill, so I'm objective in saying that.)   And I've also said that we need to increase the penalties for people who use firearms during the commission of a crime.

And yes, I say "NO" a lot because the gun control side keeps coming up with lame ideas.


What you are suggesting is something I feel we could use.  Just a beefing up of existing structure and fine tuning background checks would work.  Let's see What kind of effect that would work.


I would also suggest a teird liscening, where you can take your guns out in public areas.  Similar to auto and drivers liscennse work. Some vehicles can go on road, others can't. Some are allowed to shoot a handgun others can fire a bazooka

It's also important to remember that California Gun Law is one of the lowest death by firearm per capita, while Alabama is number 1

So it does work, but it's not going to go completely away.
 
4 days ago  

AdmirableSnackbar: HumanSVD: AdmirableSnackbar: Dimensio: It would also keep each firearm traceable to its last legal owner, which would drastically dry up the illegal gun market.

Gun nuts say we can't do that because it would lead directly to confiscation.

Because it usually does.

And that defense is why I honestly have no sympathy for gun nuts and now assume that they love these mass shootings.  The incredibly remote chance that one day their toys may be illegal is too much of a risk to work to prevent needless deaths like these.  They're all terrible people.  Every last one of them.


We don't love mass shootings at all. That's your own personal fanfiction with splash of dishonesty added to it.

Me and every other farker that has argued with you here has already pointed out numerous times that the government in charge of enforcing the laws already on the books have failed numerous times to disqualify and prevent the sale of firearms to those who shouldn't.

Another farker above above ready cited three examples with the last one being the texas shooter. All of those classes should have resulted in the buyer being disqualified but didn't because the government failed to carry out the paper work or failed to choose disqualification on pertinent information. Adam Lanza was reported on twice and police failed to do anything about it.

Yet you sit here, again and again complain why no one will compromise with you when it's been shown the government cannot keep use safe with the laws on hand, even in a gun restrictive state like California. You then go on and call people who have reservation in a effectiveness of these laws who have reasonable fears it will lead further and further encroachment on their rights terrible people.

And yet you still wonder why people do not want to compromise with you.
 
4 days ago  

Donald Trump's Latest Tweet: Mugato: Ferreira said he heard gunfire for over 20 minutes

20 minutes and only "at least" three dead? That's not only poor reporting that they can't accurately count corpses, that's poor mass shooting to get only three people in 20 minutes.

We're sorry that we don't have a good mass shooting for you today. Would you like a rain check?


I'll have you that I am "Yelp Elite" (see badge on my profile), and the internet is going to hear about this.

img.fark.net
 
4 days ago  

AdmirableSnackbar: Cthulhu Theory: HumanSVD: AdmirableSnackbar: The_Sponge: AdmirableSnackbar: If you don't like the proposals coming from the other side then propose some ideas of your own. Otherwise you're simply being intransigent and the "want these to continue" absolutely applies.

Those proposals coming from your side are infringements on our rights.....and earlier, you claimed that your side didn't want that:

AdmirableSnackbar: One side wants to reduce violence and has means that don't infringe on your rights

At least be honest and say that you guys want to take our rights away.

You want a proposal?  How about cleaning up the background check system?  Because it FAILED before the shooting in Texas.

I don't want to take your rights away. But considering how disgusting I find your attitude towards guns I'm not going to advocate against that action either. I'd like to find a compromise that works but gun nuts refuse those every single time. You're choosing this path and hate where it leads. I'd think you'd want to try a different path but here you are. I'm not gonna cry for you, you cry enough for yourself and your guns while good people who aren't you die. So no sympathy.

Enjoy crowing about all these deaths and lives forever altered. I hope it's worth it for you.

I do not want to take away your gun rights, but since you are a poopie head, I won't advocate against it.

In other words, you'd be cool with it.

Desiring something and being ok with something are two different things. Personally I enjoy shooting guns, but I have no desire to own one, nor do I find them particularly necessary. So, I'd be ok if every gun disappeared from the face of the planet, but I'm not going to advocate for it.

That level of nuance cannot be understood by some people. Critical thinking eludes then and when they see it it scares them so much that they think that person must need a therapist.


I don't understand why people don't like nuance, i think it allows for middle ground finding- oh...
 
4 days ago  

Perlin Noise: HumanSVD: Perlin Noise: Pet_Peve: I would like to know how outlawing guns would be anymore effective than outlawing drugs has been.

Well, lets start with the idea that the only thing they would have in common would be being illegal to posses, etc. So, if that's the only thing in common, we can make the exact same comparison to anything else illegal, like child porn. So, I take it you don't think it's worth the effort to try to minimize child porn by making it illegal?


/I'm so tired of the "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" argument. It's really really stupid.

You hate it because it is true. Mexico is a prime example of it.

Um, agree with what? I don't recall agreeing with anything. Oh, you mean that outlaws will have guns? Um, no shiat.


If you outlaw bank robbing only outlaws will rob banks.  Makes TOTAL sense!
 
4 days ago  

HumanSVD: AdmirableSnackbar: HumanSVD: AdmirableSnackbar: Dimensio: It would also keep each firearm traceable to its last legal owner, which would drastically dry up the illegal gun market.

Gun nuts say we can't do that because it would lead directly to confiscation.

Because it usually does.

And that defense is why I honestly have no sympathy for gun nuts and now assume that they love these mass shootings.  The incredibly remote chance that one day their toys may be illegal is too much of a risk to work to prevent needless deaths like these.  They're all terrible people.  Every last one of them.

We don't love mass shootings at all. That's your own personal fanfiction with splash of dishonesty added to it.

Me and every other farker that has argued with you here has already pointed out numerous times that the government in charge of enforcing the laws already on the books have failed numerous times to disqualify and prevent the sale of firearms to those who shouldn't.

Another farker above above ready cited three examples with the last one being the texas shooter. All of those classes should have resulted in the buyer being disqualified but didn't because the government failed to carry out the paper work or failed to choose disqualification on pertinent information. Adam Lanza was reported on twice and police failed to do anything about it.

Yet you sit here, again and again complain why no one will compromise with you when it's been shown the government cannot keep use safe with the laws on hand, even in a gun restrictive state like California. You then go on and call people who have reservation in a effectiveness of these laws who have reasonable fears it will lead further and further encroachment on their rights terrible people.

And yet you still wonder why people do not want to compromise with you.


You blame me for what you support. Interesting.
 
4 days ago  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: I think the best thing we can do is to deny ANY public funding to the NRA and its subsidiaries from any level of government.

Since the NRA thinks law enforcement officers are jack-booted thugs, they have no business being paid to train law enforcement officers or citizens.

They can do so on the private dime.


Name a current organization that can easily take over that void if that ever happened.
 
4 days ago  

ThatGuyOverThere: The lawfully inclined are not currently inclined to be felons, obtain guns illegally, kill their neighbors, go on shooting sprees, murder innocents, and engage in firefights with police.


This gets said a lot, and if it seems like I'm singling you out for saying it, well, I suppose I am, but really I'm more sort of grabbing the first utterance of it that came by, for what that's worth.

The trouble I have with the quoted above is it makes it sound like anyone who commits a crime with a gun is some mustache-twirling villain, or cool-and-calm-until-you-interfere-with​-his-business crime lord, or I dunno, the farkin Joker, making mayhem for its own sake.  And as long as you have people like that in the world, there's nothing to be done but to arm "responsible, law-abiding citizens" so they can defend themselves.  And maybe there really are mustachioed villains and hair-trigger syndicate bosses, and maybe even the farkin Joker out in the dark, scary unknown.  But honestly, who's actually committing gun violence?  An awful lot of the farkin time it's ordinary guys living more or less law-abiding lives, until suddenly they aren't anymore, until the whole thing goes off the rails.  And then those guys are immediately outliers, unless, let's be honest, they're young and black or brown, and then, the narrative goes, it's typical and just goes to show you how some people are.

But jesus farking christ, we don't live in a comic book.  There's not some canon of heroes, villains, and innocent bystanders that we all live by.  This shiat is not predestined.

And I don't have the goddamned answer.  I mean, I'd take a wrecking ball to the factories and melt anything down to and maybe including single-shot rifles and breakaway shotguns down for the steel if it were up to me, but it's not, and I get that.  Mine isn't even the majority opinion.  I get that, too.  But for fark's sake, violent men expressing everything under the farking sun from frustration to resentment to possessiveness to vengeance to, I dunno, vague dysthymia with a hail of bullets...I'm sick and tired of violent men and their dangerous tools, and that seems like it's the commenest farking denominator here.  Maybe I didn't see it when I was on the other side.  Maybe I didn't want to.  But for fark's sake, can we just figure out some goddam way to communicate strong feelings to each other other than hot flying lead?  It's barbaric and tragic and I'm farking sick of it.
 
4 days ago  

The_Sponge: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: I think the best thing we can do is to deny ANY public funding to the NRA and its subsidiaries from any level of government.

Since the NRA thinks law enforcement officers are jack-booted thugs, they have no business being paid to train law enforcement officers or citizens.

They can do so on the private dime.

Name a current organization that can easily take over that void if that ever happened.


IIRC the Boy Scouts offers a firearms safety badge...
 
4 days ago  

Rik01: I think most men would climax if they could get their hands on that new, multi barreled machine gun shown on the original Mythbusters with it's hellacious rate of fire that surpassed even the Gatling guns of the Vietnam War.


Do you write for The Onion?
 
4 days ago  

Hobodeluxe: HumanSVD: AdmirableSnackbar: rummonkey: the fact that any kids are being airlifted to the hospital because of ANOTHER shooting is enough.

It's not enough. Gun nuts need MORE freedom!  More death for their death cult is needed.  This is what they want.

This is california. Not even close to a gun nut state. Also this was a gun free zone I am willing to bet.

the shooting took place in several locations not just at the school


Irrelevant. School was still gun free yet a shooting happened there anyway, guy was a felon who shouldn't have had it and the gun laws were ineffective in preventing it.
 
4 days ago  

xalres: pedrop357: Shakin_Haitian: Yet, you'll keep voting for the people that won't do anything about those problems either, because any gun regulation is "stepping on your rights."

How are you getting my voting records?

Also, how do I vote to address the disproportionate levels of violence and homicide in cities like St. Louis,
Kansas City, Detroit, Baltimore, New Orleans, Chicago, DC, Oakland, etc.?
Shouldn't the people leading those city's governments be the ones to work on that, followed by appropriate assistance from state lawmakers?

I will do what I can in my area (Las Vegas), but I live in unincorporated Clark County, so I don't have a voting influence on City of Las Vegas politics to deal with addressing the crime problems inherent to some areas of Las Vegas proper.

I vote at the state level who might do things to address some of the problems that are more general across the state, but most of the solutions will still need to come from city governments who control things like zoning, policing strategy, business tax policy, community outreach, etc.

So you don't care enough to actually get off your arse and do anything. Got it.


What's your definition of doing something?
 
4 days ago  

The_Sponge: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: I think the best thing we can do is to deny ANY public funding to the NRA and its subsidiaries from any level of government.

Since the NRA thinks law enforcement officers are jack-booted thugs, they have no business being paid to train law enforcement officers or citizens.

They can do so on the private dime.

Name a current organization that can easily take over that void if that ever happened.


Considering how generally poor or nonexistent firearms training is for beat cops throughout the United States, it seems that almost anyone could take over and it would be an improvement.  Anyone who can train cops to overcome their "It's coming straight for us!!" mentality would be acceptable.
 
4 days ago  

pedrop357: As long as you believe it, who am I to argue about what I believe or care about?


Want to know what a gun owner believes?  Ask a gun-grabber.
 
4 days ago  

ThatGuyOverThere: No Way! People with big hands get cut open by the ppk and it's weak. The p99 is FAR better, as is the PP* series that came after it.


The P99 looks too much like a generic Glock. The PPK has more style.
 
4 days ago  

Dr Jack Badofsky: HumanSVD: Markoff_Cheney: I sneezed and 200 posts happened...

Gun threads always blow up

Sorry.  It was the grenade launcher / fragmentation bombs that I bought at the local Harbor Freight.


Were they on sale or did you use the 20 percent off coupon?
 
4 days ago  

Subtonic: Dead elementary students? Surely this will be what it takes to bring about reform in gun control at long last.


Once people who matter get killed.  Rich people.
 
4 days ago  

Dr Jack Badofsky: HumanSVD: Markoff_Cheney: I sneezed and 200 posts happened...

Gun threads always blow up

Sorry.  It was the grenade launcher / fragmentation bombs that I bought at the local Harbor Freight.


If you buy anything at Harbor Freight intending to use it more than once, well buddy, that's on you.
 
4 days ago  

vrax: ThatGuyOverThere: The lawfully inclined are not currently inclined to be felons, obtain guns illegally, kill their neighbors, go on shooting sprees, murder innocents, and engage in firefights with police.
We do, in fact, already have laws against all those things. Our society has spoken pretty clearly on the matter.

However, there are things we can do.  The Las Vegas shooter purchased a large number of rifles, but because only purchases of handguns get reported, he went under the radar.  These "little" things are what need to be shored up and reported as do stringent universal background checks for all transfers of ownership.  And fark the NRA and other assholes, we need a national database so these things can be done with efficiency instead of being stuck back in the dark ages.


No.
 
4 days ago  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: vrax: ThatGuyOverThere: The lawfully inclined are not currently inclined to be felons, obtain guns illegally, kill their neighbors, go on shooting sprees, murder innocents, and engage in firefights with police.
We do, in fact, already have laws against all those things. Our society has spoken pretty clearly on the matter.

However, there are things we can do.  The Las Vegas shooter purchased a large number of rifles, but because only purchases of handguns get reported, he went under the radar.  These "little" things are what need to be shored up and reported as do stringent universal background checks for all transfers of ownership.  And fark the NRA and other assholes, we need a national database so these things can be done with efficiency instead of being stuck back in the dark ages.

I think the best thing we can do is to deny ANY public funding to the NRA and its subsidiaries from any level of government.

Since the NRA thinks law enforcement officers are jack-booted thugs, they have no business being paid to train law enforcement officers or citizens.

They can do so on the private dime.


To be fair, many here on fark think the same thing of the police.
 
4 days ago  

GoldSpider: pedrop357: As long as you believe it, who am I to argue about what I believe or care about?

Want to know what a gun owner believes?  Ask a gun-grabber.



*Applause*
 
4 days ago  

HumanSVD: AdmirableSnackbar: HumanSVD: AdmirableSnackbar: Dimensio: It would also keep each firearm traceable to its last legal owner, which would drastically dry up the illegal gun market.

Gun nuts say we can't do that because it would lead directly to confiscation.

Because it usually does.

And that defense is why I honestly have no sympathy for gun nuts and now assume that they love these mass shootings.  The incredibly remote chance that one day their toys may be illegal is too much of a risk to work to prevent needless deaths like these.  They're all terrible people.  Every last one of them.

We don't love mass shootings at all. That's your own personal fanfiction with splash of dishonesty added to it.

Me and every other farker that has argued with you here has already pointed out numerous times that the government in charge of enforcing the laws already on the books have failed numerous times to disqualify and prevent the sale of firearms to those who shouldn't.

Another farker above above ready cited three examples with the last one being the texas shooter. All of those classes should have resulted in the buyer being disqualified but didn't because the government failed to carry out the paper work or failed to choose disqualification on pertinent information. Adam Lanza was reported on twice and police failed to do anything about it.

Yet you sit here, again and again complain why no one will compromise with you when it's been shown the government cannot keep use safe with the laws on hand, even in a gun restrictive state like California. You then go on and call people who have reservation in a effectiveness of these laws who have reasonable fears it will lead further and further encroachment on their rights terrible people.

And yet you still wonder why people do not want to compromise with you.


Tell us more how all these deaths and injuries are worth being stubborn and refusing to cooperate in finding a solution because some guy managed to buy a gun due to a failure in procedure, or some people ignore the laws. I mean it's not like Vegas was perpetrated by a guy who followed the laws... oh wait.

It's time to admit the laws are farked and need to be revisited. Stop being little biatches and finding every excuse to work your way out of culpability due to complacency, and start coming up with ways to fix the damn problem that don't rely on the system that already isn't farking working.
 
4 days ago  

ThatGuyOverThere: The lawfully inclined are not currently inclined to be felons, obtain guns illegally, kill their neighbors, go on shooting sprees, murder innocents, and engage in firefights with police.
We do, in fact, already have laws against all those things. Our society has spoken pretty clearly on the matter.
I blame people who are soft on crime. Make the penalty for committing a gun crime so horrible that nobody will want to do it.


The deep and serious flaw with this logic is that a huge proportion of gun violence is committed on the spur of the moment, in a fit of uncontrolled anger. They aren't premeditated acts by career criminals, (even though the NRA actively wants you to think your biggest gun danger comes from scary colored-types wandering about in roving gangs terrorizing decent white folk), they are just people who snap. They are probably very much otherwise "lawfully inclined". All the tough-on-crime sentencing in the world isn't going to help that.

The good news is that we have known PREDICTORS for those people...domestic violence histories, stalking episodes, serious mental illnesses, etc.  Those predictors can help us spot those risks and mitigate them.
 
4 days ago  

anustart: pedrop357: anustart: The majority of mass shooting perpetrators in the United States have a history of family violence and were not legally prevented from owning a firearm. A majority of mass shooting victims from 2009 to 2015 were an intimate partner, ex-partner, or other family member of the shooter.

How many partners, ex-partners, and other family members did Adam Lanza have at that school?

I appreciate your willingness to look at the idea, but it's unfortunate you still feel the need to obfuscate the data by conflating "The majority" with "ALL of them, you say?? Well, not THIS one! HaHa!!!"


I suppose I should have asked what a mass shooting was - does it include a person massacring their family in their home?

Even if everyone's best ideas all put together still didn't manage to do a single thing to prevent half of the gun deaths every year, you'd still save over 15,000 lives EVERY YEAR.

Keep in mind that as many as 2/3 are suicides and substantial number of homicides are drug war related.  There aren't a lot solutions at the federal level that could hope to cut it in half, but a reduction that doesn't involve unconstitutional approaches is wonderful.

The counter-argument from the gun lobby and politicians to various ideas seems to invariably be that if a proposed solution isn't a 100% fix it's not worth trying.  That sort of analysis is just designed to give the illusion of thoughtful consideration while avoiding taking the action.

This is NOT the counter-argument from the 'gun lobby' or politicians.  Very few of the solutions typically proposed have a hope of making even a dent in the numbers, and that's with highly optimistic compliance estimates.  This obsession with semi-automatic rifle bans is an example - at most, if we assume all rifle deaths are semi-auto scary ar-15 ghost guns, it would maybe 300 lives if fully complied with AND killers did not substitute weapons.  This alone makes it a no-go; it would not work. Then we get into constitutional issues of banning a very common rifle, having to confiscate them all, etc.

-Registration does nothing.  Has been abused where it's in place, ripe for abuse if expanded.
-Universal background checks might have a 2-3% impact on prohibited possessors getting guns.  The vast majority are (currently illegal) straw purchases, thefts, etc.
-Extra concealed carry regulations appear to be nothing more than punishments and stigginit, given the minimal number of issues with concealed carry

What would work is keeping violent people in prison longer - the shooter in Texas did a whole year for fracturing an infant's skull, strangling his girlfriend, and escaping custody, in addition to various assaults against other personnel possibly during this escape.  Perhaps a sentence of 7 years, or even a mere 3 might have had more effect.  Same with the guy in Maryland, same with multiple straw purchase offenders who get probation, etc..  The NSSF and NRA post stories about stuff this like all the time.

Beyond that, anything that city governments might do to make things easier for their poorest residents, including community outreach, business policy that makes it easier to open businesses in the empty commercial areas, etc. could reduce the poverty that has a strong link to crime.

Bans on types of guns don't stop mass shooters since they plan around it, and the types of guns they have used aren't the most popular for the majority of killings, and handguns aren't going anywhere either.

Prison for violent offenders
Even token enforcement of felon in possession laws
Anything that reduces the scope of the drug war
Local level intervention to address poverty, upward mobility as someone else pointed out, education issues, etc.

Those are my suggestions.
 
4 days ago  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Keyser_Soze_Death: durbnpoisn: Keyser_Soze_Death: durbnpoisn: Markoff_Cheney: Columbine was the first big one in my lifetime, and it seemed like we didn't have another for a long stretch after that.  People aren't even talking about Vegas any more, I remember Columbine being front page news for 3+ months straight around here.

It wasn't just your lifetime.  That was the first time it ever happened.

Prior to that no one had ever considered shooting up a school.


[images.gr-assets.com image 308x475]

No one... Ever.

//Does 2 seconds of research...

Ok.  I stand corrected.
I don't think that exactly qualifies as a mass shooting by Columbine standards.

1966 University of Texas tower shooting (15 killed 32 injured)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universi​ty_of_Texas_tower_shooting


1922 Bath School disaster (44 killed 58 injured)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_Sch​ool_disaster

While a gun was used to detonate a bomb in a truck filled with shrapnel, there were no shooting deaths listed in the attack. The farmer did set off the bomb in his truck by shooting it and the bomb did send shrapnel flying through him, so maybe you get one shooting. But that's not a mass shooting.


Fair enough, but the premise was that NO ONE had ever considered shooting up a school prior to Columbine. Then that was modified to include: "by Columbine standards".

Prior to Columbine, with more casualties:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89c​o​le_Polytechnique_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnend​e​n_school_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblan​e​_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27al​o​t_massacre

The point is, whack-jobs shooting-up schools and/or killing students is not a recent development, nor is it limited to just the U.S. There are probably 40 more instances on wikipedia that go back to the 1920s
 
4 days ago  

GoldSpider: Dr Jack Badofsky: HumanSVD: Markoff_Cheney: I sneezed and 200 posts happened...

Gun threads always blow up

Sorry.  It was the grenade launcher / fragmentation bombs that I bought at the local Harbor Freight.

If you buy anything at Harbor Freight intending to use it more than once, well buddy, that's on you.


:)

I've seen generators from there and I can't help but wonder what it will look like after it explodes or catches on fire.  I also weep for the poor electronics on the other end of the plug.
 
4 days ago  

vrax: The_Sponge: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: I think the best thing we can do is to deny ANY public funding to the NRA and its subsidiaries from any level of government.

Since the NRA thinks law enforcement officers are jack-booted thugs, they have no business being paid to train law enforcement officers or citizens.

They can do so on the private dime.

Name a current organization that can easily take over that void if that ever happened.

Considering how generally poor or nonexistent firearms training is for beat cops throughout the United States, it seems that almost anyone could take over and it would be an improvement.  Anyone who can train cops to overcome their "It's coming straight for us!!" mentality would be acceptable.


Dude, the "they're coming straight for us" mentality is exactly how they're trained. Every stop is a potentially lethal situation.
 
4 days ago  
...*prior* to Columbine.
 
4 days ago  
oh
 
4 days ago  

bobadooey: Dimensio: Omnidirectional Punching: Sure is a shame that once again there's absolutely nothing we could ever do to put a stop to gun violence.

If California had tough laws banning pistol grips and adjustable stocks on rifles then this shooting would not have happened.

Shut the actual fark up.  You can count the number of bodies that it took to make dry sarcasm on a mass shooting in a high gun control state infuriating.


I apologize. I should never note that outright prohibition based upon cosmetic appearance has never demonstrably reduced rates of violent crime, as noting the complete worthlessness of "assault weapons bans", as opposed to the regulation that I already suggested in this discussion, is disrespectful.
 
4 days ago  

GoldSpider: Dr Jack Badofsky: HumanSVD: Markoff_Cheney: I sneezed and 200 posts happened...

Gun threads always blow up

Sorry.  It was the grenade launcher / fragmentation bombs that I bought at the local Harbor Freight.

If you buy anything at Harbor Freight intending to use it more than once, well buddy, that's on you.


Been lucky with harbor freight stuff for the most part. Bought a corded impact wrench that was useless after a couple of uses though. Their in house hand tools seem to be pretty decent.
 
4 days ago  
The_Sponge:Really?  Because this is what I constantly hear from your side:

1) We need to ban "assault weapons"!
2) We need to ban "high capacity" magazines!
3) We need to make it very costly to be a gun owner!
4) We need a ban like Australia!

...and that is why we don't trust your side at all.


Your "side" has absolutely no standing to demand anything. None whatsoever. You have no right to act like there's any good reason for America to keep guns anymore.

Shut the fark up and let the adults talk.
 
4 days ago  

Cthulhu Theory: vrax: The_Sponge: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: I think the best thing we can do is to deny ANY public funding to the NRA and its subsidiaries from any level of government.

Since the NRA thinks law enforcement officers are jack-booted thugs, they have no business being paid to train law enforcement officers or citizens.

They can do so on the private dime.

Name a current organization that can easily take over that void if that ever happened.

Considering how generally poor or nonexistent firearms training is for beat cops throughout the United States, it seems that almost anyone could take over and it would be an improvement.  Anyone who can train cops to overcome their "It's coming straight for us!!" mentality would be acceptable.

Dude, the "they're coming straight for us" mentality is exactly how they're trained. Every stop is a potentially lethal situation.


Thanks, Captain Obvious!  Why the fark do you think I made the comment?!
 
4 days ago  

HumanSVD: However, there are things we can do.  The Las Vegas shooter purchased a large number of rifles, but because only purchases of handguns get reported, he went under the radar.  These "little" things are what need to be shored up and reported as do stringent universal background checks for all transfers of ownership.  And fark the NRA and other assholes, we need a national database so these things can be done with efficiency instead of being stuck back in the dark ages.


No.


Yes.
Sorry, but being pants-wettingly afraid of your own democratically elected government is not a sufficient reason for objecting to proper record-keeping.
Nowhere in your right to bear arms does it say the words "secretly", "anonymously" or "unaccountably".

Gee whiz, all these "proud 2nd Amendment supporters" sure seem to be reluctant to have to admit they exercise the right itself.
 
4 days ago  
According to "Guns & Ammo", best states for gun owners:
8th: Texas (25 dead in recent shooting)
25th: Nevada (58 dead in recent shooting)
46th: California (5 dead in recent shooting)

Statistics don't lie. Guncontrol works. 'Bout time jackbooted thugs knock down some doors and grab guns & ammo (not the magazine).
If we only had a prednisone who cared about the 'murcan people.
 
4 days ago  
Repeal the 2nd. Confiscate and ban. We're children who can't be trusted with our stupid little toys, so we need to take them all away.

I hope I see a gun-free United States in my lifetime. But I'm not stupid enough to hold my breath about that.

Fark guns.
 
4 days ago  

bluejeansonfire: The_Sponge:Really?  Because this is what I constantly hear from your side:

1) We need to ban "assault weapons"!
2) We need to ban "high capacity" magazines!
3) We need to make it very costly to be a gun owner!
4) We need a ban like Australia!

...and that is why we don't trust your side at all.

Your "side" has absolutely no standing to demand anything. None whatsoever. You have no right to act like there's any good reason for America to keep guns anymore.

Shut the fark up and let the adults talk.


Well, you have certainly demonstrated your ability to win over sufficient support to amend the United States Constitution so that all firearm ownership may be prohibited.
 
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