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(The Daily Beast)   Call of Duty WWII: BSAB   ( thedailybeast.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Nazi Germany, World War, First-person shooter, World War II, Duty, dead Nazis, first-person shooters, video game advertisement  
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2813 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Nov 2017 at 10:20 AM (13 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-11-09 10:02:03 AM  
"how dare the game about WW2 not cover the Holocaust!"

had the game covered the Holocaust:

"how dare the game trivialize the Holocaust!"

Peddle your poutrage elsewhere.
 
2017-11-09 10:11:27 AM  
Call of Duty didn't accurately depict the real events of World War II? I am farking shocked. Shocked, I tells you.
 
2017-11-09 10:14:36 AM  

GRCooper: "how dare the game about WW2 not cover the Holocaust!"

had the game covered the Holocaust:

"how dare the game trivialize the Holocaust!"

Peddle your poutrage elsewhere.


By that logic, people should be complaining about Wolfenstein trivializing racism in America.

Instead, the only ones complaining are those who identify with the racists.

I'm not outraged at CoD (wasn't planning on buy it anyway), but it was a stupid move when thinking about recent history in America.
 
2017-11-09 10:23:36 AM  
Not everyone in the German army was evil. I don't know what the outrage is.

I will admit that, while America is having conversations about whether it's OK to punch a Nazi in the face, it's nice to have new games that let me punch them in the face with bullets.

An adult wrote this sentence.
 
2017-11-09 10:31:18 AM  

GRCooper: "how dare the game about WW2 not cover the Holocaust!"

had the game covered the Holocaust:

"how dare the game trivialize the Holocaust!"

Peddle your poutrage elsewhere.


Take that, strawman!
 
2017-11-09 10:33:05 AM  
So, this guy is shiatting on the game because it's not SJW enough?
That's what I'm getting.

The game sucks for a whole host of reasons.
Historical inaccuracy, lame quicktime events, terrible writing, even worse voice acting.

Frank N Stein: Not everyone in the German army was evil. I don't know what the outrage is.


Some people just can't accept that fact.
 
2017-11-09 10:33:11 AM  

Frank N Stein: Not everyone in the German army was evil. I don't know what the outrage is.

I will admit that, while America is having conversations about whether it's OK to punch a Nazi in the face, it's nice to have new games that let me punch them in the face with bullets.

An adult wrote this sentence.


Evidence suggests otherwise.
 
2017-11-09 10:36:55 AM  
FTA: "I like to imagine that someone looked back on the script after Charlottesville and cringed when they remembered the line "They're not all bad." Your character says it after driving by a group of dead Nazis"

Are the dead guys SS soldiers, or simply German soldiers?  That a critical distinction because obviously not all German soldiers were Nazis. The author is an idiot.

Not every game has to be a commentary on our current societal issues.
 
2017-11-09 10:39:33 AM  
Maybe they are just saving the Holocaust for DLC.
 
2017-11-09 10:43:00 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: Call of Duty didn't accurately depict the real events of World War II? I am farking shocked. Shocked, I tells you.


To be fair, where it does go for accuracy it does it very well. As an example, the developers should be commended for the level of detail that they put into recreating with stunning historical authenticity the Allied forces running for airdropped loot crates on the beach of Normandy. It really does give as close as possible the feeling that our real soldiers felt when they received a new weapon skin or an experience point boost.
 
2017-11-09 10:43:36 AM  
TL, DR; Call of Duty doesn't actually portray the Nazis as "good guys", the author just doesn't think it attacks them enough.

Seriously, that's it. The dialogue is poorly written, and the author thinks that means that it's somehow justifying the Nazis. Jesus, I was expecting something concrete. Instead, I get a "They aren't mean enough" screed that poses as a "They specifically went out of their way to make Nazis sympathetic characters" expose of some kind.
 
2017-11-09 10:46:42 AM  
I haven't really played first person shooters since Battlefield 1942.  I played the hell out of that one though.  even though it let you play as a Nazi I never had any confusion over whether real life Nazis were facepunch worthy.
 
2017-11-09 10:48:11 AM  

Frank N Stein: Not everyone in the German army was evil. I don't know what the outrage is.

I will admit that, while America is having conversations about whether it's OK to punch a Nazi in the face, it's nice to have new games that let me punch them in the face with bullets.

An adult wrote this sentence.


Its one of those annoying tropes that in many ways destroys the lessons we should be learning about the Nazis.  Yes, it is fun to turn them into cartoonishly garish personifications of evil so we can simply enjoy our macabre slaughter without suffering strange pings of discomfort at the idea of visiting these horrors upon a flesh and blood human being.  And that kind of fantasy fulfillment entertainment definitely has a rightful place within our entertainment lexicon.  But, I also enjoy the occasional narrative that depicts Nazi soldiers as actual human beings with motivations a little more complex than simply kill all those who are not a part of the master race.

More and more, I suspect the need to demonize the Nazi Reich is due to an unsettling realization of just how close they were to the so call Greatest Generation.  We shared common religions, common morals, and we were both more than willing to incarcerate minority populations in concentration camps.
 
2017-11-09 10:49:31 AM  

Flaumig: GRCooper: "how dare the game about WW2 not cover the Holocaust!"

had the game covered the Holocaust:

"how dare the game trivialize the Holocaust!"

Peddle your poutrage elsewhere.

Take that, strawman!


You're absolutely right.

My strawman, however, is more solid than any point in TFA.  It's pout-porn clickbait, nothing more.
 
2017-11-09 10:50:28 AM  
I don't think the author presented his case very well.
 
2017-11-09 10:50:35 AM  
Saving Private Ryan does not mention the Holocaust once...Therefore everybody involved with it are Nazi sympathizers
 
2017-11-09 10:51:06 AM  

Frank N Stein: Not everyone in the German army was evil.


They may have not been evil, but they were in the service of evil.  At best they lacked the courage to stand up to Hitler and the Nazis.
 
2017-11-09 10:52:00 AM  

AntonChigger: Not every game has to be a commentary on our current societal issues.


If you know jack shiat about what makes videogames cool, and your supervisor is tapping an imaginary wristwatch, strongly implying that your hundred-word essay on Call of Duty needs to be finished by next week, the panic and tension absolutely settling in, knowing you'll be lucky to get past fifty words, then yes, every game becomes a referendum on the misogynati.

So all I'm saying, Ramirez, is that you need to save this thread.  See all those report buttons?  I want you to take that rocket launcher and shoot all of them down.  It's the only chance to keep the mods out.  Now go, Ramirez, defend Farktown.
 
2017-11-09 10:52:57 AM  

AntonChigger: FTA: "I like to imagine that someone looked back on the script after Charlottesville and cringed when they remembered the line "They're not all bad." Your character says it after driving by a group of dead Nazis"

Are the dead guys SS soldiers, or simply German soldiers?  That a critical distinction because obviously not all German soldiers were Nazis. The author is an idiot.

Not every game has to be a commentary on our current societal issues.


Sounds like it was more a play on the quote attributed to Phil Sheridan ("the only good Indian is a dead Indian")
 
2017-11-09 10:53:59 AM  

Krieghund: Frank N Stein: Not everyone in the German army was evil.

They may have not been evil, but they were in the service of evil.  At best they lacked the courage to stand up to Hitler and the Nazis.


img.fark.netView Full Size


What a man in the service of evil might look like.


img.fark.netView Full Size


What another man in the service of evil might look like.
 
2017-11-09 10:55:20 AM  

Dimensio: Krieghund: Frank N Stein: Not everyone in the German army was evil.

They may have not been evil, but they were in the service of evil.  At best they lacked the courage to stand up to Hitler and the Nazis.

[img.fark.net image 170x260]

What a man in the service of evil might look like.


[img.fark.net image 408x243]

What another man in the service of evil might look like.


Ned Beatty and Poirot?
 
2017-11-09 10:55:54 AM  
It's about ethics in Nazi shooters.
 
2017-11-09 10:58:44 AM  
Now I'm not 95 years old, so I wasn't there, but I imagine the Americans storming the beaches of Normandy weren't thinking about rescuing the Jews.  I don't think that was even a consideration for the military prior the spring of 1945.
 
2017-11-09 10:59:57 AM  
POC get shiat on again and don't get to play nazis.  White privilege.
 
2017-11-09 10:59:57 AM  

Krieghund: Frank N Stein: Not everyone in the German army was evil.

They may have not been evil, but they were in the service of evil.  At best they lacked the courage to stand up to Hitler and the Nazis.


Courage, and firepower since the Nazi's used gun registration records from the 1920's to disarm their political opponents, as well as Jews.
 
2017-11-09 11:02:08 AM  

Burr: Saving Private Ryan does not mention the Holocaust once...Therefore everybody involved with it are Nazi sympathizers


Mellish takes out his Star of David necklace and uses it to taunt German EPWs after the beach landings. He also shouts something at a German machinegunner that his father was circumcised by Mellish's rabbi. To be fair the Allies knew very little about the full extent of the camps on D Day.
 
2017-11-09 11:04:42 AM  

One Bad Apple: He also shouts something at a German machinegunner that his father was circumcised by Mellish's rabbi


What did he even mean by that?
 
2017-11-09 11:04:52 AM  
So extending this author's logic (if you can call it that), I should feel bad every time I shoot a demon in Doom?  Because I haven't taken the time to understand each individual demon and I am just assuming they are all evil... demon-izing them if you will?
 
2017-11-09 11:06:21 AM  

OldRod: So extending this author's logic (if you can call it that), I should feel bad every time I shoot a demon in Doom?  Because I haven't taken the time to understand each individual demon and I am just assuming they are all evil... demon-izing them if you will?


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-09 11:09:01 AM  

Frank N Stein: What did he even mean by that?


It implies that the German has Jewish blood maybe ? I dunno. I would probably yell all kinds of crazy shiat at a guy blasting away at me with a belt fed.
 
2017-11-09 11:11:14 AM  

Krieghund: Frank N Stein: Not everyone in the German army was evil.

They may have not been evil, but they were in the service of evil.  At best they lacked the courage to stand up to Hitler and the Nazis.


Many of them were given the choice of "serve or die"

I don't have an issue with most regular soldiers on any side of any war. Any senior officers, leadership, or those directly involved with atrocities is another matter entirely.
 
2017-11-09 11:14:28 AM  

One Bad Apple: Burr: Saving Private Ryan does not mention the Holocaust once...Therefore everybody involved with it are Nazi sympathizers

Mellish takes out his Star of David necklace and uses it to taunt German EPWs after the beach landings. He also shouts something at a German machinegunner that his father was circumcised by Mellish's rabbi. To be fair the Allies knew very little about the full extent of the camps on D Day.


Well they actually knew a lot. But the claims were so outrageous that the stories were thought to be highly exaggerated.
 
2017-11-09 11:21:50 AM  

mrsleep: So, this guy is shiatting on the game because it's not SJW enough?
That's what I'm getting.

The game sucks for a whole host of reasons.
Historical inaccuracy, lame quicktime events, terrible writing, even worse voice acting.

Frank N Stein: Not everyone in the German army was evil. I don't know what the outrage is.

Some people just can't accept that fact.


This. And that too.

If I wanted historical accuracy I'd watch a goddamn documentary on AHC (The American Hitler Channel). If I want a diversion FROM reality or historical accuracy I play the CoD variants or some other game because I know damn well when i'm slugging Nahtzee's with lead I don't sit back and think; "jezuz christ, this shiat reminds me of Charlottesville and those goddamn white supremacists. 

Off topic...is is mr sleep or mrs leep? That's always bugged me :)
 
2017-11-09 11:21:58 AM  

Burr: Saving Private Ryan does not mention the Holocaust once...Therefore everybody involved with it are Nazi sympathizers


That's a pretty good TL, DR of TFA. Better then mine.
 
2017-11-09 11:35:12 AM  

dywed88: Krieghund: Frank N Stein: Not everyone in the German army was evil.

They may have not been evil, but they were in the service of evil.  At best they lacked the courage to stand up to Hitler and the Nazis.

Many of them were given the choice of "serve or die"

I don't have an issue with most regular soldiers on any side of any war. Any senior officers, leadership, or those directly involved with atrocities is another matter entirely.


I look at it this way: Our current leadership in the US is chock-full of objectively evil people who are gleefully farking over most of the citizens of this nation so that they and their friends can have even more of the money and power that they already posses most of.  They have a relatively small, but very vocal group of supporters who loudly proclaim to the world that this is what America is.  As a result, there are those in the rest of the world who hate all Americans...but there's a lot more out there who understand that it's not you, or me, or the family down the street, or even much of our military personnel that are cartoon villains, and thus they save their dislike and disdain not for Americans as a whole, but for those that are actually acting like villains and those that vociferously support them.

If we're willing to accept that not every American citizen or soldier is a power-hungry white supremacist, then we should at least have the mental acuity to accept the same of the Germans during WWII.
 
2017-11-09 11:35:41 AM  

AntonChigger: FTA: "I like to imagine that someone looked back on the script after Charlottesville and cringed when they remembered the line "They're not all bad." Your character says it after driving by a group of dead Nazis"

Are the dead guys SS soldiers, or simply German soldiers?  That a critical distinction because obviously not all German soldiers were Nazis. The author is an idiot.

Not every game has to be a commentary on our current societal issues.


Weren't all German soldiers in WWII Nazis?
 
2017-11-09 11:38:01 AM  

v2micca: More and more, I suspect the need to demonize the Nazi Reich is due to an unsettling realization of just how close they were to the so call Greatest Generation.  We shared common religions, common morals, and we were both more than willing to incarcerate minority populations in concentration camps.


There's definitely an element of "how could so many people go along with a madman, it could have been us," but I'd stop short of drawing too close a comparison.

1) The US population was highly isolationist and neutral. The German population let themselves be whipped into an imperial fervor for lebensraum.

2) The US interned people based on their race, which is of course unforgivable. But, in the comparison, the Nazi regime's goal was genocide. The only reason they had internment camps was because in the early war they couldn't kill the racially inferior and undesirables fast enough so they needed someplace to keep them (e.g. see the story of the Warsaw Ghetto). In the late war they turned into much-needed slave labor camps that kept the war industry going as Germany's supply of manpower dwindled. The German camps, every single one of them, are better termed extermination camps rather than concentration camps, because that was their purpose. There are lots of saved Nazi documents detailing how the purpose of these camps was to efficiently kill their inmates through a combination malnutrition and overwork, whereupon the strongest survivors would be shot.

Concentration was the name they gave to these camps to make them palatable to the outside world, but that's not what they were. The US camps were fundamentally different in both theory and practice.
 
2017-11-09 11:40:59 AM  

Teufelaffe: I look at it this way: Our current leadership in the US is chock-full of objectively evil people who are gleefully farking over most of the citizens of this nation so that they and their friends can have even more of the money and power that they already posses most of.  They have a relatively small, but very vocal group of supporters who loudly proclaim to the world that this is what America is.  As a result, there are those in the rest of the world who hate all Americans


You're a fool if you think that internal policy is the reason people hate us in other countries. They couldn't give a fark less what our tax code is.
 
2017-11-09 11:44:31 AM  

Frank N Stein: Teufelaffe: I look at it this way: Our current leadership in the US is chock-full of objectively evil people who are gleefully farking over most of the citizens of this nation so that they and their friends can have even more of the money and power that they already posses most of.  They have a relatively small, but very vocal group of supporters who loudly proclaim to the world that this is what America is.  As a result, there are those in the rest of the world who hate all Americans

You're a fool if you think that internal policy is the reason people hate us in other countries. They couldn't give a fark less what our tax code is.


I wasn't talking about internal policy, per se.  The wars that we're involved in, the revolutions/coups that we've supported, playing "world police", are all just as much about grabbing money and power as tax breaks for the rich are.
 
2017-11-09 11:47:24 AM  

Teufelaffe: Frank N Stein: Teufelaffe: I look at it this way: Our current leadership in the US is chock-full of objectively evil people who are gleefully farking over most of the citizens of this nation so that they and their friends can have even more of the money and power that they already posses most of.  They have a relatively small, but very vocal group of supporters who loudly proclaim to the world that this is what America is.  As a result, there are those in the rest of the world who hate all Americans

You're a fool if you think that internal policy is the reason people hate us in other countries. They couldn't give a fark less what our tax code is.

I wasn't talking about internal policy, per se.  The wars that we're involved in, the revolutions/coups that we've supported, playing "world police", are all just as much about grabbing money and power as tax breaks for the rich are.


Ah. The "farking over most of the citizens of this nation part" threw me off. No one cares what happens to us, they just don't want to get droned anymore.
 
2017-11-09 11:47:25 AM  

mjbok: AntonChigger: FTA: "I like to imagine that someone looked back on the script after Charlottesville and cringed when they remembered the line "They're not all bad." Your character says it after driving by a group of dead Nazis"

Are the dead guys SS soldiers, or simply German soldiers?  That a critical distinction because obviously not all German soldiers were Nazis. The author is an idiot.

Not every game has to be a commentary on our current societal issues.

Weren't all German soldiers in WWII Nazis?


Not any more than all US soldiers are Republicans, or Democrats, or Libertarians.  "Nazi" was a political party and a belief system, and while it was the party in control of the country and the military, it didn't mean that every German soldier was a Nazi.

The SS on the other hand...definitely all Nazis.
 
2017-11-09 11:48:06 AM  

Frank N Stein: Teufelaffe: Frank N Stein: Teufelaffe: I look at it this way: Our current leadership in the US is chock-full of objectively evil people who are gleefully farking over most of the citizens of this nation so that they and their friends can have even more of the money and power that they already posses most of.  They have a relatively small, but very vocal group of supporters who loudly proclaim to the world that this is what America is.  As a result, there are those in the rest of the world who hate all Americans

You're a fool if you think that internal policy is the reason people hate us in other countries. They couldn't give a fark less what our tax code is.

I wasn't talking about internal policy, per se.  The wars that we're involved in, the revolutions/coups that we've supported, playing "world police", are all just as much about grabbing money and power as tax breaks for the rich are.

Ah. The "farking over most of the citizens of this nation part" threw me off. No one cares what happens to us, they just don't want to get droned anymore.


Yeah, I definitely could have been clearer.
 
2017-11-09 11:49:31 AM  

Krieghund: I haven't really played first person shooters since Battlefield 1942.


That was the best game ever made, you haven't missed anything.

Single player COD:World at War voice acting by Kiefer Sutherland and Gary Oldman is top notch and they really make the game
 
2017-11-09 11:51:48 AM  

Teufelaffe: Frank N Stein: Teufelaffe: I look at it this way: Our current leadership in the US is chock-full of objectively evil people who are gleefully farking over most of the citizens of this nation so that they and their friends can have even more of the money and power that they already posses most of.  They have a relatively small, but very vocal group of supporters who loudly proclaim to the world that this is what America is.  As a result, there are those in the rest of the world who hate all Americans

You're a fool if you think that internal policy is the reason people hate us in other countries. They couldn't give a fark less what our tax code is.

I wasn't talking about internal policy, per se.  The wars that we're involved in, the revolutions/coups that we've supported, playing "world police", are all just as much about grabbing money and power as tax breaks for the rich are.


The problem is the US is derided when they do something and is also blamed when they do nothing (see Darfur).
 
2017-11-09 11:53:27 AM  
The real point of the author's piece is buried all the way at the end, and it's actually a really good point from both a game design and storytelling perspective:

This game does not need to take place in 1944 and so should not take place in 1944. Nearly everything about this game could be transplanted to 1914 or 2014 or 2044 and stay just the same. It's a timeless, bland story that does nothing with its setting. And by doing nothing, it does a disservice to itself and its audience.

I'm not going to try and argue that every video game needs to have a deep message with it- games are fun and they're supposed to be fun. But the author's point above really stands. That's a shame, because it DOES ignore the realities of living in a time where racism/sexism was rampant and acceptable, it ignores the human motivations on both sides of the conflict that could teach us something, and in a game like COD it even ignores the military-tactical/strategic gameplay that goes along with the technology and the thinking of the time. From a storytelling point of view it would be easy and obvious to incorporate at least something deep, but they don't.

COD has turned into the equivalent of unflavored potato chips. Not even the crunchy kind, just the limp kind. The experience is 100% superficial. There's no substance there at all: you sit down and you eat the entire bag of chips and nothing changes and nothing surprises you. The experience is just worthwhile enough that you'll try it again in six months or a year.

If I want to be critical, they've basically taken the point of view that each war is defined by what type of guns the infantryman carried. That's the only thing that changes these days.
 
2017-11-09 11:53:56 AM  

mjbok: AntonChigger: FTA: "I like to imagine that someone looked back on the script after Charlottesville and cringed when they remembered the line "They're not all bad." Your character says it after driving by a group of dead Nazis"

Are the dead guys SS soldiers, or simply German soldiers?  That a critical distinction because obviously not all German soldiers were Nazis. The author is an idiot.

Not every game has to be a commentary on our current societal issues.

Weren't all German soldiers in WWII Nazis?


Nazi party membership peaked at about 8 million while Germany's 1937 population (before integrating other lands into Germany was about 70 million and over 18 million served in the Wehrmacht during the war. Many of whom were conscripts, including plenty of foreigners from occupied countries. I believe Saving Private Ryan accurately showed Czech troops at Omaha Beach.
 
2017-11-09 11:57:41 AM  

OldRod: So extending this author's logic (if you can call it that), I should feel bad every time I shoot a demon in Doom?  Because I haven't taken the time to understand each individual demon and I am just assuming they are all evil... demon-izing them if you will?


Actually, that would be the antithesis of the author's argument.
 
2017-11-09 11:57:53 AM  

dywed88: One Bad Apple: Burr: Saving Private Ryan does not mention the Holocaust once...Therefore everybody involved with it are Nazi sympathizers

Mellish takes out his Star of David necklace and uses it to taunt German EPWs after the beach landings. He also shouts something at a German machinegunner that his father was circumcised by Mellish's rabbi. To be fair the Allies knew very little about the full extent of the camps on D Day.

Well they actually knew a lot. But the claims were so outrageous that the stories were thought to be highly exaggerated.


Check out Witold Pilecki, he was a member of the Polish resistance who volunteered to be imprisoned in Auschwitz.  They had no idea what it was in 1940 and needed intelligence on it. He smuggled out regular reports for 3 years before successfully escaping.  Sadly, as pointed out, the Allies didn't believe them because of the scale if the horror.
 
2017-11-09 11:58:35 AM  

Teufelaffe: Frank N Stein: Teufelaffe: I look at it this way: Our current leadership in the US is chock-full of objectively evil people who are gleefully farking over most of the citizens of this nation so that they and their friends can have even more of the money and power that they already posses most of.  They have a relatively small, but very vocal group of supporters who loudly proclaim to the world that this is what America is.  As a result, there are those in the rest of the world who hate all Americans

You're a fool if you think that internal policy is the reason people hate us in other countries. They couldn't give a fark less what our tax code is.

I wasn't talking about internal policy, per se.  The wars that we're involved in, the revolutions/coups that we've supported, playing "world police", are all just as much about grabbing money and power as tax breaks for the rich are.


To be honest, it's currently a lot more about the fact that Trump arrogantly rescinded a lot of your international engagements, while it's painfully obvious that he's doing so out of spite, hubris and ignorance, without any plan besides "I'm smart and rich, so everything will turn out the way I want".

/At least, for those of us who aren't currently in a war-torn nation
 
2017-11-09 11:59:06 AM  
I want to see a call of duty where one of the storylines begins with a German grunt on the eastern front during Barbarossa. You see the motivations of the average soldier against communism, and the locals initially welcoming the Germans. Then the horror creeps in, and your character and a couple others start asking questions. Your friend gets executes by an officer. Then finally, disgusted, you desert with a handful of friends and link up with the Polish resistence, fighting your former colleagues. You discover more and more just how wrong you were. Maybe eventually you hook up with American/British special forces.

That would be interesting.
 
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