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(Guardian)   The poorest 50% in the US has less money than the top 3. No, not the top 3%   ( theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Murica, richest people, wealth, negative wealth, Warren Buffett, Forbes, Wealth inequality, moral crisis, tax change proposals  
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1428 clicks; posted to Business » on 09 Nov 2017 at 12:10 AM (13 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-11-08 10:13:21 PM  
 
2017-11-08 10:22:35 PM  
Like I keep saying, the fight isn't "white vs. black" or "Republican vs. Democrat" - it is, and more or less has been for the last century or so, "rich vs. poor." We had a good thing, but we got sleepy and allowed the rich to quietly gut the government out from under all of us.
 
2017-11-08 10:22:59 PM  
Apple has $261B sitting in the bank.
 
2017-11-08 10:28:53 PM  
That is a class war the bottom 50% could easily win.  Warren and Bill do a ton of philanthropic work, but that doesn't really help the distribution problem in this country.
I guess Bezos is an asshole from what I have read, sounds about right.
 
2017-11-08 10:29:06 PM  

enry: Apple has $261B sitting in the bank.


Offshore!
 
2017-11-08 10:30:09 PM  

FormlessOne: Like I keep saying, the fight isn't "white vs. black" or "Republican vs. Democrat" - it is, and more or less has been for the last century or so, "rich vs. poor." We had a good thing, but we got sleepy and allowed the rich to quietly gut the government out from under all of us.


The dumb farkers forget who buys the things that make them rich.  A healthy investment in the middle class pays tenfold, but patience is like hard or whatever and money now is cocaine on the table.
 
2017-11-08 10:42:40 PM  

Markoff_Cheney: FormlessOne: Like I keep saying, the fight isn't "white vs. black" or "Republican vs. Democrat" - it is, and more or less has been for the last century or so, "rich vs. poor." We had a good thing, but we got sleepy and allowed the rich to quietly gut the government out from under all of us.

The dumb farkers forget who buys the things that make them rich.  A healthy investment in the middle class pays tenfold, but patience is like hard or whatever and money now is cocaine on the table.


Another article posted earlier today described how farmers are wiping out shelterbelts on their properties so that they can plant more crops, because shelterbelts cost farmers money as "unproductive land" but planting corn on them would cough up a few grand right now. They did so heedless of the idea that the reason shelterbelts were planted in the first place was because farmers wiped out ground cover and created the Great Dust Bowl, destroying farming in that region for years until the land could be recovered with things like, well, shelterbelts.

Seriously, we'd scoop out our own eyes if we could sell them for enough money to buy an OLED TV, I swear to Dawkins. We're all one-person re-enactments of "The Gift of the Magi," every goddamned day.
 
2017-11-08 11:05:53 PM  

FormlessOne: Markoff_Cheney: FormlessOne: Like I keep saying, the fight isn't "white vs. black" or "Republican vs. Democrat" - it is, and more or less has been for the last century or so, "rich vs. poor." We had a good thing, but we got sleepy and allowed the rich to quietly gut the government out from under all of us.

The dumb farkers forget who buys the things that make them rich.  A healthy investment in the middle class pays tenfold, but patience is like hard or whatever and money now is cocaine on the table.

Another article posted earlier today described how farmers are wiping out shelterbelts on their properties so that they can plant more crops, because shelterbelts cost farmers money as "unproductive land" but planting corn on them would cough up a few grand right now. They did so heedless of the idea that the reason shelterbelts were planted in the first place was because farmers wiped out ground cover and created the Great Dust Bowl, destroying farming in that region for years until the land could be recovered with things like, well, shelterbelts.

Seriously, we'd scoop out our own eyes if we could sell them for enough money to buy an OLED TV, I swear to Dawkins. We're all one-person re-enactments of "The Gift of the Magi," every goddamned day.


Educational and informative, you had me googling shelterbelts.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-08 11:10:07 PM  

FormlessOne: Markoff_Cheney: FormlessOne: Like I keep saying, the fight isn't "white vs. black" or "Republican vs. Democrat" - it is, and more or less has been for the last century or so, "rich vs. poor." We had a good thing, but we got sleepy and allowed the rich to quietly gut the government out from under all of us.

The dumb farkers forget who buys the things that make them rich.  A healthy investment in the middle class pays tenfold, but patience is like hard or whatever and money now is cocaine on the table.

Another article posted earlier today described how farmers are wiping out shelterbelts on their properties so that they can plant more crops, because shelterbelts cost farmers money as "unproductive land" but planting corn on them would cough up a few grand right now. They did so heedless of the idea that the reason shelterbelts were planted in the first place was because farmers wiped out ground cover and created the Great Dust Bowl, destroying farming in that region for years until the land could be recovered with things like, well, shelterbelts.

Seriously, we'd scoop out our own eyes if we could sell them for enough money to buy an OLED TV, I swear to Dawkins. We're all one-person re-enactments of "The Gift of the Magi," every goddamned day.


But it's okay! The farmers in the midwest have all of that sweet, sweet underground aquifer water! And, surely, that's not going anywhere anytime soon!

!
 
2017-11-08 11:47:53 PM  
don't worry - historically speaking, massive wealth imbalances DO eventually self correct....after a whole bunch of poor people die taking down one or two incredibly wealthy greedy jerks.   usually the self correction is incredibly bloody tho, so we should probably do something about it before we get that point.

but we won't.  we should, but we won't.

so - blood it is then, as is always our choice.
 
2017-11-08 11:52:28 PM  

FormlessOne: Like I keep saying, the fight isn't "white vs. black" or "Republican vs. Democrat" - it is, and more or less has been for the last century or so, "rich vs. poor." We had a good thing, but we got sleepy and allowed the rich to quietly gut the government out from under all of us.


The flaw in that line of thinking is that most poor people in this country (i.e., poor Republicans) are on the side of the rich.

So it actually IS Republican vs. Democrat. Whether the real fight is one of class is rendered moot by the fact that most of the lower class sides with their enemies.

This is reason #562 why Democrats won't ever find much purchase again among the ranks of the white middle-American lower class. You can't win people over with solutions to their problems when they're not interested in solving them in the first place.
 
2017-11-08 11:56:05 PM  

Markoff_Cheney: The dumb farkers forget who buys the things that make them rich.


Maybe, but it seems like they're doin' alright at the moment. None of 'em look poised to become un-rich anytime soon.
 
2017-11-09 12:15:27 AM  

sigdiamond2000: FormlessOne: Like I keep saying, the fight isn't "white vs. black" or "Republican vs. Democrat" - it is, and more or less has been for the last century or so, "rich vs. poor." We had a good thing, but we got sleepy and allowed the rich to quietly gut the government out from under all of us.

The flaw in that line of thinking is that most poor people in this country (i.e., poor Republicans) are on the side of the rich.

So it actually IS Republican vs. Democrat. Whether the real fight is one of class is rendered moot by the fact that most of the lower class sides with their enemies.

This is reason #562 why Democrats won't ever find much purchase again among the ranks of the white middle-American lower class. You can't win people over with solutions to their problems when they're not interested in solving them in the first place.


There are people within the Democratic Party who seem to think that more moving more leftward will somehow shatter the party, despite that assertion being disputed this week in places like Virginia, where the Democratic candidate ran on an avowed socialist platform and unseated the GOP minority whip.

These people who are "worried" about upending the status quo are the people who are profiting from it.
 
2017-11-09 12:17:54 AM  

Markoff_Cheney: That is a class war the bottom 50% could easily win.  Warren and Bill do a ton of philanthropic work, but that doesn't really help the distribution problem in this country.
I guess Bezos is an asshole from what I have read, sounds about right.


img.fark.netView Full Size


"'Amazon is not happening to bookselling,' Jeff Bezos of Amazon likes to say. 'The future is happening to bookselling.' And what the future wants just happens to be exactly what Amazon wants. What an amazing coincidence."
 
2017-11-09 12:18:16 AM  
Warren Buffett - September 2011

"Actually, there's been class warfare going on for the last 20 years, and my class has won."

" We're the ones that have gotten our tax rates reduced dramatically.If you look at the 400 highest taxpayers in the United States in 1992, the first year for figures, they averaged about $40 million of [income] per person. In the most recent year, they were $227 million per person - five for one. During that period, their taxes went down from 29 percent to 21 percent of income. So, if there's class warfare, the rich class has won. "
 
kab
2017-11-09 12:21:31 AM  
Well yeah.   What else did anyone expect would eventually happen?
 
2017-11-09 12:24:00 AM  

kab: Well yeah.   What else did anyone expect would eventually happen?


the rich are almost always shocked when the poor start sticking up for themselves.  and they almost always over react when we do so with even a small measure of success.
 
2017-11-09 12:24:40 AM  
Soon
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-09 12:26:34 AM  

Weaver95: don't worry - historically speaking, massive wealth imbalances DO eventually self correct....after a whole bunch of poor people die taking down one or two incredibly wealthy greedy jerks.   usually the self correction is incredibly bloody tho, so we should probably do something about it before we get that point.

but we won't.  we should, but we won't.

so - blood it is then, as is always our choice.


Note to self:  Add more tampons to the Emergency Preparedness Kit.

They're not just for the ladies and high school wrestlers' nosebleeds anymore!
 
kab
2017-11-09 12:27:25 AM  
sigdiamond2000:
The flaw in that line of thinking is that most poor people in this country (i.e., poor Republicans) are on the side of the rich.

Selling the idea that we're all temporarily embarrassed millionaires, and that opportunity actually exists for every last willing participant has been incredibly effective.
 
2017-11-09 01:01:34 AM  

puffy999: FormlessOne: Markoff_Cheney: FormlessOne: Like I keep saying, the fight isn't "white vs. black" or "Republican vs. Democrat" - it is, and more or less has been for the last century or so, "rich vs. poor." We had a good thing, but we got sleepy and allowed the rich to quietly gut the government out from under all of us.

The dumb farkers forget who buys the things that make them rich.  A healthy investment in the middle class pays tenfold, but patience is like hard or whatever and money now is cocaine on the table.

Another article posted earlier today described how farmers are wiping out shelterbelts on their properties so that they can plant more crops, because shelterbelts cost farmers money as "unproductive land" but planting corn on them would cough up a few grand right now. They did so heedless of the idea that the reason shelterbelts were planted in the first place was because farmers wiped out ground cover and created the Great Dust Bowl, destroying farming in that region for years until the land could be recovered with things like, well, shelterbelts.

Seriously, we'd scoop out our own eyes if we could sell them for enough money to buy an OLED TV, I swear to Dawkins. We're all one-person re-enactments of "The Gift of the Magi," every goddamned day.

But it's okay! The farmers in the midwest have all of that sweet, sweet underground aquifer water! And, surely, that's not going anywhere anytime soon!

!


What, you mean that aquifer they are building a pipeline under? yeah, that won't go wrong.

soon, we will have to buy bottled water because there won't be any clean water to drink. just ask nestle.
 
2017-11-09 01:12:15 AM  

Markoff_Cheney: enry: Apple has $261B sitting in the bank.

Offshore!


They prefer the term iReland
 
2017-11-09 01:29:27 AM  
At some stage there will be a financial calculation necessary - is it cheaper to hire a private army, fortify your homes and businesses, and travel in heavily guarded convoys any time to venture out, or is it cheaper to forgo some of your unspendable wealth to provide a UBI (+ probably soma) to pacify the otherwise sullen and rebellious masses?
 
2017-11-09 02:18:51 AM  

jaytkay: Soon
[img.fark.net image 193x500]


That will be a merciful death compared to what will become of us. The idiot underclass demands more bread and more circuses. And what the bread runs out, and people suddenly realize they sold their lives, children, and futures to Mammon for nothing, that is when the seven ring circus extravaganza will begin.
 
2017-11-09 02:20:34 AM  

Stibium: And what the bread runs out, and people suddenly realize they sold their lives, children, and futures to Mammon for nothing, that is when the seven ring circus extravaganza will begin.


its gonna really suck for the stupid people when their entire universe collapses in on them.
 
2017-11-09 02:25:08 AM  

Weaver95: Stibium: And what the bread runs out, and people suddenly realize they sold their lives, children, and futures to Mammon for nothing, that is when the seven ring circus extravaganza will begin.

its gonna really suck for the stupid people when their entire universe collapses in on them.


The havoc they will wreak will be very satisfying to them, though. And in that state of white-hot fury and hate, it's all that will matter.

And when the last drop of blue blood falls to the tongue, they will look around at each other and draw their swords. Now for the red blood...
 
2017-11-09 02:28:30 AM  

Stibium: The havoc they will wreak will be very satisfying to them, though


luckily for the rest of us tho, the trumpers are pretty stupid.  oh they'll f*ck up their own communities beyond all belief but in the end, the trumpers are spread thin around the country.  they only have a few places where they're bunched up enough to be a concern.

remember - all we have to do is protect our own.  the trumpers can and will destroy themselves soon enough.  just protect your tribe and let the trumpers tire themselves out.  just keep winning elections, limiting the maximum amount the trumpers can gain, and we'll grind them down.
 
2017-11-09 02:37:24 AM  

Weaver95: Stibium: The havoc they will wreak will be very satisfying to them, though

luckily for the rest of us tho, the trumpers are pretty stupid.  oh they'll f*ck up their own communities beyond all belief but in the end, the trumpers are spread thin around the country.  they only have a few places where they're bunched up enough to be a concern.

remember - all we have to do is protect our own.  the trumpers can and will destroy themselves soon enough.  just protect your tribe and let the trumpers tire themselves out.  just keep winning elections, limiting the maximum amount the trumpers can gain, and we'll grind them down.


It's not the trumpers I'm concerned with. Most Americans feel the same pain deep down. They have shiatty jobs, shiatty pay, no satisfaction in what they do, the list goes on. It's not at all about politics, but rather what the economy has done to the individual, namely ground and pulverized him into a fine dust. But deep down everyone knows they aren't really happy, that the smiles on their faces are just there because they happen to be amused at that moment by some baubel, geegah, or doodad.

Once the illusion that they have meaning to the economy and the country is shattered, all hell will break lose. Because the economy does not need the individual, it needs only collective belief. There needs only a critical mass of faithlessness to set off the chain reaction.

We aren't quite there yet, though. Give it a few more decades. By then Antarctica should be mostly ice-free.
 
2017-11-09 02:45:22 AM  

Stibium: But deep down everyone knows they aren't really happy, that the smiles on their faces are just there because they happen to be amused at that moment by some baubel, geegah, or doodad.


welcome to being human.  again - this is the sort of thing that happens in human cultures from time to time.  we eventually find a new balance.  I sometimes wonder if the GOP's adulation of greed and hypocrisy has also infected their version of christanity with a fatal case of apathy.  you're right about the spiritual void most americans have these days.  mainstream religion isn't meeting people's needs.
 
2017-11-09 04:47:38 AM  
I don't feel too bad about learning of this.
These three don't sound like horrible people.
It's all the guys underneath them who want to introduce a neo-feudalistic society and ensure they never pay another dime in taxes while reaping all of the rewards.
And they have a pack of willing lapdogs in Congress.
 
2017-11-09 06:38:12 AM  
Because the other 50% doesn't give 3% of a fark about the poor.
 
2017-11-09 07:04:56 AM  

FormlessOne: Seriously, we'd scoop out our own eyes if we could sell them for enough money to buy an OLED TV, I swear to Dawkins. We're all one-person re-enactments of "The Gift of the Magi," every goddamned day.


You're a terrible, dystopic person, FormlessOne. This is why I have you farkied with the best people, the very best. The prettiest colors.
 
2017-11-09 07:12:24 AM  
This thread and the Democratic Party platform in one word:  "Gimme!"
 
2017-11-09 07:14:17 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: This thread and the Democratic Party platform in one word:  "Gimme!"


Gimme coal jobs!
 
2017-11-09 07:14:41 AM  
The poorest 50% in the US have less money than the 3 richest?  See... Republican strategy works!
Anything less is socialism, and we don't want that.
 
2017-11-09 07:48:07 AM  

12349876: Debeo Summa Credo: This thread and the Democratic Party platform in one word:  "Gimme!"

Gimme coal jobs!


and Medicare! But not government run medicine!
 
2017-11-09 08:20:12 AM  
I've been assured that giving those 3 a massive tax cut will make everything better.
 
2017-11-09 08:22:30 AM  

FormlessOne: Like I keep saying, the fight isn't "white vs. black" or "Republican vs. Democrat" - it is, and more or less has been for the last century or so, "rich vs. poor." We had a good thing, but we got sleepy and allowed the rich to quietly gut the government out from under all of us.


7 of the 10 richest counties in America surround Washington, DC.
 
2017-11-09 08:24:09 AM  

Makh: Markoff_Cheney: enry: Apple has $261B sitting in the bank.

Offshore!

They prefer the term iReland


It's iJersey now.
 
2017-11-09 09:01:58 AM  

Nadie_AZ: 12349876: Debeo Summa Credo: This thread and the Democratic Party platform in one word:  "Gimme!"

Gimme coal jobs!

and Medicare! But not government run medicine!


And SSDI!

But not for "those people!"
 
2017-11-09 09:12:03 AM  

Weaver95: don't worry - historically speaking, massive wealth imbalances DO eventually self correct....after a whole bunch of poor people die taking down one or two incredibly wealthy greedy jerks.   usually the self correction is incredibly bloody tho, so we should probably do something about it before we get that point.

but we won't.  we should, but we won't.

so - blood it is then, as is always our choice.


Not really. That's happened a small handful of times. Historically, nothing happens to the wealthy unless other wealthy people decide they don't like them anymore.
 
2017-11-09 09:48:35 AM  
The poor will never rise up against the extreme wealth inequity. We are too busy rushing to pin everyone with a label (so we know whether to like or hate them), playing on our cell phones, and watching American Idol.

In the past, the poor have had the motivation to rise up. Presently, the extremely wealthy have learned what the minimum is that the poor need to have to keep them placated, and that's exactly what we have today.

Even now, all we do is ITG online about how, any day now, we're going to rise up and correct this obscene inequity. Sadly, it will never get past this stage, because too many of us would rather name call and make fun of whoever is president.
 
kab
2017-11-09 09:54:21 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: This thread and the Democratic Party platform in one word:  "Gimme!"


Competing with the opposition party of "Got mine, fark you!"
 
2017-11-09 10:01:13 AM  

kab: Debeo Summa Credo: This thread and the Democratic Party platform in one word:  "Gimme!"

Competing with the opposition party of "Got mine, fark you!"


Precisely.  And although not ideal, "I've got mine" is a far more ethical and responsible point of view than "give me yours".
 
2017-11-09 10:13:54 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: kab: Debeo Summa Credo: This thread and the Democratic Party platform in one word:  "Gimme!"

Competing with the opposition party of "Got mine, fark you!"

Precisely.  And although not ideal, "I've got mine" is a far more ethical and responsible point of view than "give me yours".


Maybe, but the most ethical would be giving without needing to be asked.
 
2017-11-09 10:14:04 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: kab: Debeo Summa Credo: This thread and the Democratic Party platform in one word:  "Gimme!"

Competing with the opposition party of "Got mine, fark you!"

Precisely.  And although not ideal, "I've got mine" is a far more ethical and responsible point of view than "give me yours".


Not when you got yours through slavery, stealing, and graft.
 
2017-11-09 10:21:13 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Precisely. And although not ideal, "I've got mine" is a far more ethical and responsible point of view than "give me yours".


That view only holds up when "yours" is obtained ethically and reasonably.  The Bernie Madoffs of the world had theirs, but it wasn't theirs.  That's the problem we have here.  A huge percentage of the rich got their from privatizing gains and spreading losses over the populace, and ensuring through PACs and special interest groups that people who allow it stay in power and don't reform the system.

Why are bank profits funneled to investors and execs, but their collapses are paid for with tax money?  Why do we let insurance companies rack up huge internal profits, but disasters are paid for with FEMA and federal disaster aid?

That's where people say "give me yours".  Because those people have gotten rich off of bleeding common people for three generations, and using that money and power to ensure it stays that way.
 
2017-11-09 10:21:27 AM  

mjjt: At some stage there will be a financial calculation necessary - is it cheaper to hire a private army, fortify your homes and businesses, and travel in heavily guarded convoys any time to venture out, or is it cheaper to forgo some of your unspendable wealth to provide a UBI (+ probably soma) to pacify the otherwise sullen and rebellious masses?


Or...

Come up with a population reduction scheme to reduce the risk.
 
2017-11-09 10:26:21 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: kab: Debeo Summa Credo: This thread and the Democratic Party platform in one word:  "Gimme!"

Competing with the opposition party of "Got mine, fark you!"

Precisely.  And although not ideal, "I've got mine" is a far more ethical and responsible point of view than "give me yours".


Only if you begin with the axiom "ownership is the single most important right, and trumps all others in any situation". Which is obviously false. People are willing to go broke for health, sustenance, love - any number of things. So property and ownership are, by and large, ranked pretty low. In which case "gimme yours so I can help someone with a higher priority" is more moral than "got mine, fark you".
 
2017-11-09 10:30:22 AM  
What to add?...maybe a reminder that the "rich" are a diverse bunch and don't agree on everything, or even like each other very much. There are factions among them too.

Truly wealthy people like Gates, Buffett or Bezos seem to share at least a sense of noblesse oblige, the idea that they have an obligation to maintain the liberal democratic systems that made their great wealth possible, be it through supporting liberal causes or institutions, or more straightforward buying of the loyalty of the masses (e.g. through philanthropy).

Those among the "rich" who want to overthrow liberal democracy and replace it with something more to their liking seem to be also-rans in the Great Game of Capitalist Accumulation.

Trump inherited most of his wealth and has been an indifferent businessman at best. A better example is self-made man and Cruz (and later Trump) backer Robert Mercer, who has a net worth of "only" two billion USD at most (his five percent stake in the Renaissance hedge fund is worth maybe USD1.25B).
 
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