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(Washington Post)   Equifax:All your leaked data is still our property. This is part of the way the economy works   ( washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Equifax, United States Senate, Executive officer, Equifax Richard Smith, Consumer protection, Equifax data breach, current Equifax chief, Senate Commerce Committee  
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1234 clicks; posted to Business » on 09 Nov 2017 at 1:30 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



29 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-11-08 08:53:36 PM  
because they own it all. lock stock and barrel.

the regular person doesn't have a farking chance.
 
2017-11-08 09:01:18 PM  
This is true.  They are the victim.  Not you.

They're the only one entitled to sell it to others, like creditors and debt collectors, who will use it against you.
 
2017-11-08 10:00:30 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-08 11:58:57 PM  
They force people to use arbitration? If you never agreed to allow them to collect your data you have no contract with them. How can they demand you use arbitration?
 
2017-11-09 12:08:53 AM  

Kirablue42: the regular person doesn't have a farking chance.


not true.  we can always...uh....write our congressman!  oh, wait.  no, we can't, congress only listens to lobbyists.  I know!  we'll take them to court!  oh...but they've got all our money, and the courts are super expensive.  we could....protest march!  oh, but the cops show up in riot gear and can pretty much murder anyone at will and get away with it.

hmm.  so what happens when one by one, our non-violent options are systematically removed from us?  our problems increase, but we're not given any opportunity to be heard and have things get better.  eventually, something HAS to give.....
 
2017-11-09 12:15:53 AM  
Maybe if people started using character references over credit numbers..maybe if people started making the farking numbers obsolete and realized they could deal human to human, things would change.

It USED to be that you could go to something called a credit union, and they would loan money the banks wouldn't. Now they run the same way as the banks..all by the numbers.

There is no one and no way to get a loan unless you have the right farking numbers, so it's still always a numbers game.

the god here in this world is an evil math god.
 
2017-11-09 12:17:40 AM  
If someone would loan me money personally, I would pay it back. I would set up all my stuff I owe on and combine it and would be able to pay things easier.

But I am not "historically' rich, and haven't had the right breaks in life, so am farked for life.

because people deal with numbers and no one trusts anymore.
 
2017-11-09 12:22:48 AM  

Kirablue42: because people deal with numbers and no one trusts anymore.


the business world runs like that, sure.  but 'people' don't.  there's still places and groups who don't focus so much on money...but our culture seems to despise anything that isn't plated in gold and drenched in sex.
 
2017-11-09 12:27:18 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: They force people to use arbitration? If you never agreed to allow them to collect your data you have no contract with them. How can they demand you use arbitration?


Pretty much every way you contact them electronically to get your info will have a TOS with an arb clause.  They've been doing it for a long time.

I haven't looked at it lately but it could apply to any future claims.  So if you ever pulled your report from them, you could be bound.

Congrats!
 
2017-11-09 05:23:37 AM  

wejash: Carter Pewterschmidt: They force people to use arbitration? If you never agreed to allow them to collect your data you have no contract with them. How can they demand you use arbitration?

Pretty much every way you contact them electronically to get your info will have a TOS with an arb clause.  They've been doing it for a long time.

I haven't looked at it lately but it could apply to any future claims.  So if you ever pulled your report from them, you could be bound.

Congrats!


Interesting.  At some point in the mid-90's, I basically threw my hands up and said "fark it." when it comes to Equifax.  I've been completely unable to ANYthing with them, including pulling my own credit report.  Not electronically, not over the phone, not by mail, not by certified & notarized mail... They (Equifax) say I am not who I say I am (ID's, photo IDs, passport, federal ID's, etc...).  None of my previous addresses are exact.  Close, but none are right.  Employment history is the same.  All are close, but none are exact.  When I bring this up, I'm just told I'm not who I say I am, and that's that.

It has been a hassle in the past (car loans, etc...) but nothing that I haven't been able to overcome.  Nearly every time, whoever I'm doing business with that pulls a credit report, I mention my Equifax nightmares and it is always met with, "yeah, we don't trust them either."

So, I wonder if I'm bound by this.
 
2017-11-09 08:16:38 AM  
The reason you don't own the data is because you did not provide it to them.  You gave up your rights to your personal info to various companies that you deal with.  They in turn provide the data to Equifax which compiles the data and uses it for their purposes.  The individual has no dealing with Equifax.
 
2017-11-09 08:33:51 AM  

Xanlexian: wejash: Carter Pewterschmidt: They force people to use arbitration? If you never agreed to allow them to collect your data you have no contract with them. How can they demand you use arbitration?

Pretty much every way you contact them electronically to get your info will have a TOS with an arb clause.  They've been doing it for a long time.

I haven't looked at it lately but it could apply to any future claims.  So if you ever pulled your report from them, you could be bound.

Congrats!

Interesting.  At some point in the mid-90's, I basically threw my hands up and said "fark it." when it comes to Equifax.  I've been completely unable to ANYthing with them, including pulling my own credit report.  Not electronically, not over the phone, not by mail, not by certified & notarized mail... They (Equifax) say I am not who I say I am (ID's, photo IDs, passport, federal ID's, etc...).  None of my previous addresses are exact.  Close, but none are right.  Employment history is the same.  All are close, but none are exact.  When I bring this up, I'm just told I'm not who I say I am, and that's that.

It has been a hassle in the past (car loans, etc...) but nothing that I haven't been able to overcome.  Nearly every time, whoever I'm doing business with that pulls a credit report, I mention my Equifax nightmares and it is always met with, "yeah, we don't trust them either."

So, I wonder if I'm bound by this.


They maintained for a over a decade that I had a delinquent, then written off Discover account, despite an affidavit from Discover saying I (or my SSN) never had an account with them.
 
2017-11-09 08:58:28 AM  

Xanlexian: wejash: Carter Pewterschmidt: They force people to use arbitration? If you never agreed to allow them to collect your data you have no contract with them. How can they demand you use arbitration?

Pretty much every way you contact them electronically to get your info will have a TOS with an arb clause.  They've been doing it for a long time.

I haven't looked at it lately but it could apply to any future claims.  So if you ever pulled your report from them, you could be bound.

Congrats!

Interesting.  At some point in the mid-90's, I basically threw my hands up and said "fark it." when it comes to Equifax.  I've been completely unable to ANYthing with them, including pulling my own credit report.  Not electronically, not over the phone, not by mail, not by certified & notarized mail... They (Equifax) say I am not who I say I am (ID's, photo IDs, passport, federal ID's, etc...).  None of my previous addresses are exact.  Close, but none are right.  Employment history is the same.  All are close, but none are exact.  When I bring this up, I'm just told I'm not who I say I am, and that's that.

It has been a hassle in the past (car loans, etc...) but nothing that I haven't been able to overcome.  Nearly every time, whoever I'm doing business with that pulls a credit report, I mention my Equifax nightmares and it is always met with, "yeah, we don't trust them either."

So, I wonder if I'm bound by this.


What about Experian and TransUnion?
 
2017-11-09 09:00:30 AM  

runwiz: The reason you don't own the data is because you did not provide it to them.  You gave up your rights to your personal info to various companies that you deal with.  They in turn provide the data to Equifax which compiles the data and uses it for their purposes.  The individual has no dealing with Equifax.


Ding ding ding, winner winner chicken dinner.

/Used to work for an Equifax spin off
 
2017-11-09 09:05:37 AM  

NotThatGuyAgain: Xanlexian: wejash: Carter Pewterschmidt: They force people to use arbitration? If you never agreed to allow them to collect your data you have no contract with them. How can they demand you use arbitration?

Pretty much every way you contact them electronically to get your info will have a TOS with an arb clause.  They've been doing it for a long time.

I haven't looked at it lately but it could apply to any future claims.  So if you ever pulled your report from them, you could be bound.

Congrats!

Interesting.  At some point in the mid-90's, I basically threw my hands up and said "fark it." when it comes to Equifax.  I've been completely unable to ANYthing with them, including pulling my own credit report.  Not electronically, not over the phone, not by mail, not by certified & notarized mail... They (Equifax) say I am not who I say I am (ID's, photo IDs, passport, federal ID's, etc...).  None of my previous addresses are exact.  Close, but none are right.  Employment history is the same.  All are close, but none are exact.  When I bring this up, I'm just told I'm not who I say I am, and that's that.

It has been a hassle in the past (car loans, etc...) but nothing that I haven't been able to overcome.  Nearly every time, whoever I'm doing business with that pulls a credit report, I mention my Equifax nightmares and it is always met with, "yeah, we don't trust them either."

So, I wonder if I'm bound by this.

What about Experian and TransUnion?


Never had a problem with either of them.  Both have (and have always had) accurate information on me.
 
2017-11-09 09:07:30 AM  

Xanlexian: NotThatGuyAgain: Xanlexian: wejash: Carter Pewterschmidt: They force people to use arbitration? If you never agreed to allow them to collect your data you have no contract with them. How can they demand you use arbitration?

Pretty much every way you contact them electronically to get your info will have a TOS with an arb clause.  They've been doing it for a long time.

I haven't looked at it lately but it could apply to any future claims.  So if you ever pulled your report from them, you could be bound.

Congrats!

Interesting.  At some point in the mid-90's, I basically threw my hands up and said "fark it." when it comes to Equifax.  I've been completely unable to ANYthing with them, including pulling my own credit report.  Not electronically, not over the phone, not by mail, not by certified & notarized mail... They (Equifax) say I am not who I say I am (ID's, photo IDs, passport, federal ID's, etc...).  None of my previous addresses are exact.  Close, but none are right.  Employment history is the same.  All are close, but none are exact.  When I bring this up, I'm just told I'm not who I say I am, and that's that.

It has been a hassle in the past (car loans, etc...) but nothing that I haven't been able to overcome.  Nearly every time, whoever I'm doing business with that pulls a credit report, I mention my Equifax nightmares and it is always met with, "yeah, we don't trust them either."

So, I wonder if I'm bound by this.

What about Experian and TransUnion?

Never had a problem with either of them.  Both have (and have always had) accurate information on me.


I hit "add comment" too quickly.  I also meant to add, that whenever I've brought up that Experian and TransUnion have accurate information on me to Equifax, Equifax's response has always been, "we're not Experian or TransUnion."
 
2017-11-09 09:28:40 AM  

Weaver95: Kirablue42: the regular person doesn't have a farking chance.

not true.  we can always...uh....write our congressman!  oh, wait.  no, we can't, congress only listens to lobbyists.  I know!  we'll take them to court!  oh...but they've got all our money, and the courts are super expensive.  we could....protest march!  oh, but the cops show up in riot gear and can pretty much murder anyone at will and get away with it.

hmm.  so what happens when one by one, our non-violent options are systematically removed from us?  our problems increase, but we're not given any opportunity to be heard and have things get better.  eventually, something HAS to give.....


Well, it's Putin's way of saying back at you for 1989. He hasn't forgotten how humiliated Soviets were and apparently, unlike me*, is hell bent on payback. Hint- USA today resembles Poland circa 1991.


*Ex-pole. Lived through what the west called 'victory' over communism. It wasn't fun or pretty or civil. It appears it's the repayment time. Better strap in and hope for the best.

/Gorkamorka USA RL time
 
2017-11-09 10:12:26 AM  

Kirablue42: Maybe if people started using character references over credit numbers..maybe if people started making the farking numbers obsolete and realized they could deal human to human, things would change.

It USED to be that you could go to something called a credit union, and they would loan money the banks wouldn't. Now they run the same way as the banks..all by the numbers.


You're joking, right?  Character references for loans?  Do you have any idea how much that would take in resources to implement today, and how terrible the resulting defaults would be?

They all run by "the numbers" because "the numbers" are an effective predictor of how likely people are to pay money back.  Character references and handshake agreements were phased out because they didn't work once business started occurring outside of small home towns where people all knew each other.  You knew not to give money to Tom, the stumbling drunk who couldn't keep a job.  But Joe, he was ok.  He owns an appliance shop in downtown and dresses well.  That was a great way to do business in 1957, but the world passed that by long ago.

I completely understand and agree with the anger at these careless credit rating agencies.  But your solution isn't a solution.
 
2017-11-09 10:35:53 AM  
This reminds me of the government A bunch of classified data gets plastered all over the world and they claim it's still a secret.
 
2017-11-09 11:14:02 AM  
'Murica.
 
2017-11-09 01:04:41 PM  

Khellendros: Kirablue42: Maybe if people started using character references over credit numbers..maybe if people started making the farking numbers obsolete and realized they could deal human to human, things would change.

It USED to be that you could go to something called a credit union, and they would loan money the banks wouldn't. Now they run the same way as the banks..all by the numbers.

You're joking, right?  Character references for loans?  Do you have any idea how much that would take in resources to implement today, and how terrible the resulting defaults would be?

They all run by "the numbers" because "the numbers" are an effective predictor of how likely people are to pay money back.  Character references and handshake agreements were phased out because they didn't work once business started occurring outside of small home towns where people all knew each other.  You knew not to give money to Tom, the stumbling drunk who couldn't keep a job.  But Joe, he was ok.  He owns an appliance shop in downtown and dresses well.  That was a great way to do business in 1957, but the world passed that by long ago.

I completely understand and agree with the anger at these careless credit rating agencies.  But your solution isn't a solution.


Yep.  Plus, there are still places that do micro loans where you can get SOME money, but like anything else (potentially) high-risk, you're going to pay for that privilege.
 
2017-11-09 01:12:06 PM  
Yes, they own your data. No, you can't opt out. Yes, they're incompetent and their infosec is "Huh, what's an infosec"? But you know what, fark you. That seems about right.
 
2017-11-09 02:29:16 PM  
We don't need this anymore. 

Khellendros: Kirablue42: Maybe if people started using character references over credit numbers..maybe if people started making the farking numbers obsolete and realized they could deal human to human, things would change.

It USED to be that you could go to something called a credit union, and they would loan money the banks wouldn't. Now they run the same way as the banks..all by the numbers.

You're joking, right?  Character references for loans?  Do you have any idea how much that would take in resources to implement today, and how terrible the resulting defaults would be?

They all run by "the numbers" because "the numbers" are an effective predictor of how likely people are to pay money back.  Character references and handshake agreements were phased out because they didn't work once business started occurring outside of small home towns where people all knew each other.  You knew not to give money to Tom, the stumbling drunk who couldn't keep a job.  But Joe, he was ok.  He owns an appliance shop in downtown and dresses well.  That was a great way to do business in 1957, but the world passed that by long ago.

I completely understand and agree with the anger at these careless credit rating agencies.  But your solution isn't a solution.


I wholeheartedly disagree.

You are saying that its not worth an hour of someone's time to make some phone calls?  If that's going to make the loan unprofitable, you probably shouldn't be making the loan.

This system is easier, yes.  It is by no means the only way to do this.   Its easiest because it cuts a lot of corners.

I worked in the credit mafia too long.  There is way too much abuse, and the potential for abuse is not even being tapped yet.

This has to be rebuilt.   Maybe completely reconceived.
 
2017-11-09 02:58:43 PM  

Xanlexian: Xanlexian: NotThatGuyAgain: Xanlexian: wejash: Carter Pewterschmidt: They force people to use arbitration? If you never agreed to allow them to collect your data you have no contract with them. How can they demand you use arbitration?

Pretty much every way you contact them electronically to get your info will have a TOS with an arb clause.  They've been doing it for a long time.

I haven't looked at it lately but it could apply to any future claims.  So if you ever pulled your report from them, you could be bound.

Congrats!

Interesting.  At some point in the mid-90's, I basically threw my hands up and said "fark it." when it comes to Equifax.  I've been completely unable to ANYthing with them, including pulling my own credit report.  Not electronically, not over the phone, not by mail, not by certified & notarized mail... They (Equifax) say I am not who I say I am (ID's, photo IDs, passport, federal ID's, etc...).  None of my previous addresses are exact.  Close, but none are right.  Employment history is the same.  All are close, but none are exact.  When I bring this up, I'm just told I'm not who I say I am, and that's that.

It has been a hassle in the past (car loans, etc...) but nothing that I haven't been able to overcome.  Nearly every time, whoever I'm doing business with that pulls a credit report, I mention my Equifax nightmares and it is always met with, "yeah, we don't trust them either."

So, I wonder if I'm bound by this.

What about Experian and TransUnion?

Never had a problem with either of them.  Both have (and have always had) accurate information on me.

I hit "add comment" too quickly.  I also meant to add, that whenever I've brought up that Experian and TransUnion have accurate information on me to Equifax, Equifax's response has always been, "we're not Experian or TransUnion."


That doesn't surprise me a bit.  I know several who work for Equifax, including one with the title Director of Global Operations.  That's exactly how he would reply.
 
2017-11-09 03:00:48 PM  

I sound fat: You are saying that its not worth an hour of someone's time to make some phone calls? If that's going to make the loan unprofitable, you probably shouldn't be making the loan.


No, I'm saying those phone calls are utterly useless.  Anyone can give a reference for anything, and you have no support to back up what they're claiming.  You're taking a system that is based on measurable prior action (if flawed in some ways, but solid from an actuarial perspective) and replacing it with some guy saying "yeah, they're ok to give money to".  It's crap, and there's a very good reason it was stopped - references are completely worthless.
 
2017-11-09 03:28:56 PM  

Khellendros: Kirablue42: Maybe if people started using character references over credit numbers..maybe if people started making the farking numbers obsolete and realized they could deal human to human, things would change.

It USED to be that you could go to something called a credit union, and they would loan money the banks wouldn't. Now they run the same way as the banks..all by the numbers.

You're joking, right?  Character references for loans?  Do you have any idea how much that would take in resources to implement today, and how terrible the resulting defaults would be?

They all run by "the numbers" because "the numbers" are an effective predictor of how likely people are to pay money back.  Character references and handshake agreements were phased out because they didn't work once business started occurring outside of small home towns where people all knew each other.  You knew not to give money to Tom, the stumbling drunk who couldn't keep a job.  But Joe, he was ok.  He owns an appliance shop in downtown and dresses well.  That was a great way to do business in 1957, but the world passed that by long ago.

I completely understand and agree with the anger at these careless credit rating agencies.  But your solution isn't a solution.


So you can't take the time out to speak with someone's employer?  Do you think we might be able to distinguish between good and bad credit risks by, say, how long someone has been working?  Or how active they are in their community?  Or their performance in school?

Credit scores benefit huge massive banks.  It allows them to bypass the work of getting to know you as a person.  It then allows them to view you as a resource to be exploited rather than as a person to have a relationship with.  It's no coincidence that the credit cards mailing me offers based on my credit score are from firms like Capitol One.
 
2017-11-09 03:50:25 PM  

Khellendros: I sound fat: You are saying that its not worth an hour of someone's time to make some phone calls? If that's going to make the loan unprofitable, you probably shouldn't be making the loan.

No, I'm saying those phone calls are utterly useless.  Anyone can give a reference for anything, and you have no support to back up what they're claiming.  You're taking a system that is based on measurable prior action (if flawed in some ways, but solid from an actuarial perspective) and replacing it with some guy saying "yeah, they're ok to give money to".  It's crap, and there's a very good reason it was stopped - references are completely worthless.


Which is true if you're a huge Wall Street based megacorp that's trolling for new resources to exploit customers.

If you are a smaller, local concern, where your credit decisions are based on your performance with them over the years, then you absolutely can make good decisions based on personal relationships.

But you have to be small.
 
2017-11-09 08:57:40 PM  
new legislation is needed to prod companies like Equifax

To prod?
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-09 10:56:18 PM  
Just do any farking thing you want. I'm still not checking my credit score.
 
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