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(MM&M)   Pharmaceutical lobbyists caught off guard at new wave of anti-bribery legislation at the state level. "We looked at hotels in NJ and couldn't find a meal for under $20"   ( mmm-online.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, promotional dinner meetings, New Jersey, pharma marketing tactics, pharma payments, opioid maker Insys, opioid epidemic, market research industry, med-ed firm Rockpointe  
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3066 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Nov 2017 at 1:35 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-11-08 10:09:38 PM  
I used to work at a place that catered a lot of pharma lunches at the local doctor's offices.

Made some money off those drug dealers
 
2017-11-08 10:22:50 PM  
Have you ever looked at a hotel menu and wondered how the room service rates are decided in metropolitan areas?
 
2017-11-08 10:31:17 PM  
Is there a more useless job than "lobbyist" that doesn't have "HR" or "CEO" in the title?
 
2017-11-09 01:00:03 AM  
Have you tried the pizza places?  Don't tell me you can't find one in New Jersey.
 
2017-11-09 01:39:02 AM  

SoupGuru: I used to work at a place that catered a lot of pharma lunches at the local doctor's offices.

Made some money off those drug dealers


I worked in a restaurant where a pharma guy would regularly host business meetings. Some of my most profitable days there were from working those, only slightly behind catering weddings
 
2017-11-09 01:48:52 AM  
If it upsets lobbyists, ESPECIALLY pharma lobbyists, it's probably good.
 
2017-11-09 01:55:07 AM  
Time to order a bag of McDonald's or a pizza.

Honestly, I can't say "fark all these guys" hard enough.
 
2017-11-09 01:55:19 AM  

Sid_6.7: Have you ever looked at a hotel menu and wondered how the room service rates are decided in metropolitan areas?


There's something you miss there, though...

Most of the hotels government employees have to stay at...  don't have room service.

I've traveled on the government dime, for work (obviously), and out of 16 trips, one hotel had room service.

And the only reason we were at that hotel on the trip is because of a few other events (non-government) in the area had taken all the standard government cheap hotel spaces.

And even in that one, I still went out for Chinese, because I didn't like their RS menu.  (Ok, it was also well over the meal limits.)
 
2017-11-09 01:57:12 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-09 02:20:57 AM  

Mugato: Is there a more useless job than "lobbyist" that doesn't have "HR" or "CEO" in the title?


If lobbyists were useless, they wouldn't have those limitless company cards to woo congress critters.

The word you're thinking of is "evil"
 
2017-11-09 02:42:23 AM  

Sid_6.7: Have you ever looked at a hotel menu and wondered how the room service rates are decided in metropolitan areas?


It comes down to "what will a business traveler be allowed to expense"?

At least, that's how we did it when I worked for a company that sold internet access in hotels.  Downtown NY/LA?  Higher price than downtown Phoenix.
 
2017-11-09 02:59:40 AM  
Buy your own farking lunch then, you are not exactly scraping for a meal.
 
2017-11-09 03:07:06 AM  

gaspode: Buy your own farking lunch then, you are not exactly scraping for a meal.


But if they can't buy expensive meals, how can they show off their employer's wealth, and thus ability to bribe contribute to political campaigns?
 
2017-11-09 04:32:00 AM  
If they had passed this legislation 20 or 30 years earlier, there wouldn't be an opioid crisis.
 
2017-11-09 05:35:35 AM  
My wife worked for an event management company for a while. Typically they would set up at the most expensive steak house in the area. Doctors could order anything from the menu and bar. Seems like a lot of effort to just provide doctors with a little information.
 
2017-11-09 05:41:22 AM  
I used to work as a researcher in pharma, it was pretty soul sucking and didn't get many bennies. I should have gone to sales, I assume it was just as bad, but with way better pay and perks.
 
2017-11-09 05:52:32 AM  
It's difficult to commit bribery when you're on an Applebee's budget.
 
2017-11-09 06:07:55 AM  
I read that as pharmaceutical "hobbyists" when I woke up.

/I'm more awake now
//sounds like an expensive hobby
///good
 
2017-11-09 07:22:45 AM  

Reverend J: I used to work as a researcher in pharma, it was pretty soul sucking and didn't get many bennies. I should have gone to sales, I assume it was just as bad, but with way better pay and perks.


Very few researchers would cut it in sales. Not outgoing enough, not disingenuous enough, not attractive enough.
 
2017-11-09 07:41:47 AM  

Badgers: If they had passed this legislation 20 or 30 years earlier, there wouldn't be an opioid crisis.


There really needs to be a concerted Santorum level push online to link the opioid crisis to Purdue Pharma and specifically to the Spackler family. The Spackler's play at just being old money philanthropists while taking no blame for creating this disaster. Their fortune is built on the misery of millions of addicts and hardly anyone knows where their blood money came from.

The secret of great fortunes without apparent cause is a crime forgotten, for it was properly done.
 
2017-11-09 07:45:19 AM  

Sid_6.7: Have you ever looked at a hotel menu and wondered how the room service rates are decided in metropolitan areas?


If you traveled for work you would know these look well under most room service costs.
 
2017-11-09 07:56:02 AM  
I used to pull my punches, and now I'm wondering why I ever did.

Fark these mother duck-hen people. These are the people who addicted a generation or two to opioids. Gently caress them in prison.
 
2017-11-09 08:56:13 AM  
I won't argue against the quote in the headline, but why the f*ck are you limiting yourself to room service?

/stays at a hotel in NJ every now and then that has a fantastic, cheap, Chinese food place a block away
 
2017-11-09 09:04:09 AM  
Cry me a farking river.
 
2017-11-09 09:04:56 AM  

mithras_angel: Most of the hotels government employees have to stay at... don't have room service.

I've traveled on the government dime, for work (obviously), and out of 16 trips, one hotel had room service.

And the only reason we were at that hotel on the trip is because of a few other events (non-government) in the area had taken all the standard government cheap hotel spaces.


I went to a training class in S.F. and wasn't allowed to stay at the hotel where the class was being held, not approved for government trips. So, I stayed at an approved hotel in Fisherman's Wharf, rented a car, paid parking at my hotel at night and parking during the day at the class. I figure it was costing $50-60 more than the class hotel would have.

/Not complaining though, it was during Dungeness crab season! Got up early every day.
 
2017-11-09 09:11:17 AM  

LordJiro: If it upsets lobbyists, ESPECIALLY pharma lobbyists, it's probably good.


Yeah sure. But it still seems weird to me to set a yearly cap at 10k, but dinners can't cost more than 15USD.

What's so special about dinners?

Since the article mentions N. J., one way to get around it, would just treat them to a casino visit. The casino will be happy to comp. them, if they're given some gambling money.
 
2017-11-09 09:33:03 AM  

Mugato: Is there a more useless job than "lobbyist" that doesn't have "HR" or "CEO" in the title?


Homeopathic doctor.
Psychic.
Ethicist.
 
2017-11-09 09:37:40 AM  

grumpfuff: I won't argue against the quote in the headline, but why the f*ck are you limiting yourself to room service?

/stays at a hotel in NJ every now and then that has a fantastic, cheap, Chinese food place a block away


This. I think that sometimes spending someone else's money brings on a weird type of willful stupidity.

/CSB: Had a co-worker who raided everyone's hotel fridge for the snacks for a meet-and-greet, instead of arranging catering with the hotel ahead of time (slightly cheaper, much higher quality) or walking to the convenience mart a block away from the hotel (much much cheaper, same quality). She was fired a little while later.
 
2017-11-09 09:44:14 AM  
"We looked at hotels in NJ and couldn't find a meal for under $20"

Once Trump's unregulated banking system crashes the economy again, that problem will fix itself.
 
2017-11-09 09:53:34 AM  
Problem - conferences are held at convention centers. Everything is expensive there. Everything is expensive around there. Quick lunches in the centers can easily cost more than you can be reimbursed for. And that doesn't even count the few cups of coffee you need to keep running from 7am to 9pm. Breakfast allowances will only be like $6 - so you're lucky to get a small cup of coffee and a cookie at the only place available in the convention center.
You can either stay far away where things are cheaper, and lose a whole lot of time commuting... or you can suck it up and put your own money into things.
Dinners... everybody appreciates a free dinner because reimbursement limits almost never cover a decent dinner anywhere near the convention center. You're lucky to get enough to cover a shared appetizer with your dinner and NON-alcoholic drink at most decent restaurants. and then you have to figure out who skipped buying breakfast and lunch and can afford to have their allowances cover it - and that's assuming they're on a per diem rather than an itemized-by-meal system.
And vendors that give real drinks with free dinner are... awesome. Sometimes you just really need a stiff drink and a good meal after flying on the red eye, running all day for a week straight, eating greasy cheap food at high prices, and stress for a week.

now the trips, hookers, houses, excess, etc provided by some companies to high level folks... that can be done away with and very few people would even notice.
 
2017-11-09 09:54:58 AM  

draypresct: grumpfuff: I won't argue against the quote in the headline, but why the f*ck are you limiting yourself to room service?

/stays at a hotel in NJ every now and then that has a fantastic, cheap, Chinese food place a block away

This. I think that sometimes spending someone else's money brings on a weird type of willful stupidity.

/CSB: Had a co-worker who raided everyone's hotel fridge for the snacks for a meet-and-greet, instead of arranging catering with the hotel ahead of time (slightly cheaper, much higher quality) or walking to the convenience mart a block away from the hotel (much much cheaper, same quality). She was fired a little while later.


You can't bring 90 doctors to a meeting at a hotel, then tell them to walk to the Chinese buffet next door for lunch. They'll never talk to you again.

A lot of things about our healthcare system are broken. A $26 lunch in a conference room at the Hilton (for people who make $250,000 per year) is not one of them.
 
2017-11-09 10:01:30 AM  

mithras_angel: Sid_6.7: Have you ever looked at a hotel menu and wondered how the room service rates are decided in metropolitan areas?

There's something you miss there, though...

Most of the hotels government employees have to stay at...  don't have room service.

I've traveled on the government dime, for work (obviously), and out of 16 trips, one hotel had room service.

And the only reason we were at that hotel on the trip is because of a few other events (non-government) in the area had taken all the standard government cheap hotel spaces.

And even in that one, I still went out for Chinese, because I didn't like their RS menu.  (Ok, it was also well over the meal limits.)


13 years as a defense contractor.  Only hotels I've stayed in (on work trips) with room service are Hiltons. And it's usually meh.

The one I never understood is the 75% on the first/last day.  Their reasoning is "you're traveling, so you're going to eat breakfast on your own when you leave and dinner when you get back." But your other two meals are likely in the airport, the most expensive food in the farking world...
 
2017-11-09 10:23:06 AM  
In my state, Pharma lobbies spent close to $50 million in adds to kill a bill that would have capped prices for drugs paid for by state programs, such as Medicare. That doesn't include what they did to influence physician or nursing groups to join then in encouraging people to vote against the bill in their TV and print ads. There was so much conflicting information produced by the drug industry that people decided to vote against it by 80%.
 
2017-11-09 10:25:35 AM  
draypresct:
/CSB: Had a co-worker who raided everyone's hotel fridge for the snacks for a meet-and-greet, instead of arranging catering with the hotel ahead of time (slightly cheaper, much higher quality) or walking to the convenience mart a block away from the hotel (much much cheaper, same quality). She was fired a little while later.

I was on a really well funded IT project in the late 90's where the Project Manager would play "the mini bar game" every night.  We'd pick someone's hotel room and go empty the minibar.  There were 16 of us traveling the US and overseas together for about a year.  He'd just say "Expense it, I'll approve it".

And he did.....same guy took us out to Del Frisco's steakhouse once a week too.

Crazy times....
 
2017-11-09 10:58:17 AM  

Sid_6.7: Have you ever looked at a hotel menu and wondered how the room service rates are decided in metropolitan areas?


When I was earlier in my career as an engineer, I did the road-warrior thing for a while.  Lots of work travel to our factory partners, other sites for integration meetings, etc.  After a few trips with a buddy, we started developing a concept for one of those half-hour food/travel shows you see all over extended cable these days.

Loosely based on Rachel Ray's "$40 a Day" (popular at the time), ours was going to be called "$50 per diem".  Each week, we'd travel to a new city and give the viewers tips on how to exploit their company-provided per diem in the best way possible.  How to hide the alcohol you weren't supposed to buy on the bill, how to make it look like your hotel didn't provide free breakfasts so you could get the 3-meal/day bump-up, etc.
 
2017-11-09 11:29:08 AM  

Where wolf: mithras_angel: Sid_6.7: Have you ever looked at a hotel menu and wondered how the room service rates are decided in metropolitan areas?

There's something you miss there, though...

Most of the hotels government employees have to stay at...  don't have room service.

I've traveled on the government dime, for work (obviously), and out of 16 trips, one hotel had room service.

And the only reason we were at that hotel on the trip is because of a few other events (non-government) in the area had taken all the standard government cheap hotel spaces.

And even in that one, I still went out for Chinese, because I didn't like their RS menu.  (Ok, it was also well over the meal limits.)

13 years as a defense contractor.  Only hotels I've stayed in (on work trips) with room service are Hiltons. And it's usually meh.

The one I never understood is the 75% on the first/last day.  Their reasoning is "you're traveling, so you're going to eat breakfast on your own when you leave and dinner when you get back." But your other two meals are likely in the airport, the most expensive food in the farking world...


You do realize that the per-diem is already obscenely high compared to what you can actually pay for food if you aren't going to the most expensive options, right?  There's a Wendy's in the airport, and you can eat just fine for half a day on 75% of $64, it just won't be fine dining.
 
2017-11-09 12:25:33 PM  

Bowen: draypresct: grumpfuff: I won't argue against the quote in the headline, but why the f*ck are you limiting yourself to room service?

/stays at a hotel in NJ every now and then that has a fantastic, cheap, Chinese food place a block away

This. I think that sometimes spending someone else's money brings on a weird type of willful stupidity.

/CSB: Had a co-worker who raided everyone's hotel fridge for the snacks for a meet-and-greet, instead of arranging catering with the hotel ahead of time (slightly cheaper, much higher quality) or walking to the convenience mart a block away from the hotel (much much cheaper, same quality). She was fired a little while later.

You can't bring 90 doctors to a meeting at a hotel, then tell them to walk to the Chinese buffet next door for lunch. They'll never talk to you again.

A lot of things about our healthcare system are broken. A $26 lunch in a conference room at the Hilton (for people who make $250,000 per year) is not one of them.


You can give them a box lunch containing a sandwich, an apple, a cookie, and a bottle of water. It takes a bit of planning, but it's much cheaper than $26/person.

/I've eaten that box lunch alongside hundreds of doctors at symposia held at international conferences sponsored by big Pharma. There's a lot of scrutiny nowadays . . .
 
2017-11-09 01:28:11 PM  
I work in pharma, so I'm getting a kick, etc, etc.

Not to pick a fight, but there's a lot of ignorance in this thread.  Like, actual definition of ignorance, not people just being stupid (although I'm sure some here are ... it's fark).

The concept of doctors being outright bribed by fancy meals is appealing, but simply untrue.  I've worked in the grants department (for lack of better term), and the cost of everything is heavily scrutinized for all of these events.  I've also worked in commercial, and the limitations there are quite strict.  The vast majority of pharma companies, despite popular opinion, don't play around with this stuff, as the resulting fines can easily sink a big company, let alone a smaller one.

This type of thing is the typical bad actor scenario.  For example - someone in my  company recently used gmail to send some sensitive materials outside of the organization.  As a result, IT decided to shut down all external email services from all work devices (in building and at home).  One person was dumb, then draconian laws passed that impact everyone.  This is the same stuff.  But the public only hears about the bad actors, so their perception is skewed.  /sigh  C'est la vie.

/rant
 
2017-11-09 02:06:36 PM  
Next you're gonna tell me the pharma companies are predisposed to hiring attractive female marketing and communications majors straight out of college to peddle their wares to a bunch of wealthy middle aged doctors.
 
2017-11-09 03:09:52 PM  

draypresct: Bowen: draypresct: grumpfuff: I won't argue against the quote in the headline, but why the f*ck are you limiting yourself to room service?

/stays at a hotel in NJ every now and then that has a fantastic, cheap, Chinese food place a block away

This. I think that sometimes spending someone else's money brings on a weird type of willful stupidity.

/CSB: Had a co-worker who raided everyone's hotel fridge for the snacks for a meet-and-greet, instead of arranging catering with the hotel ahead of time (slightly cheaper, much higher quality) or walking to the convenience mart a block away from the hotel (much much cheaper, same quality). She was fired a little while later.

You can't bring 90 doctors to a meeting at a hotel, then tell them to walk to the Chinese buffet next door for lunch. They'll never talk to you again.

A lot of things about our healthcare system are broken. A $26 lunch in a conference room at the Hilton (for people who make $250,000 per year) is not one of them.

You can give them a box lunch containing a sandwich, an apple, a cookie, and a bottle of water. It takes a bit of planning, but it's much cheaper than $26/person.

/I've eaten that box lunch alongside hundreds of doctors at symposia held at international conferences sponsored by big Pharma. There's a lot of scrutiny nowadays . . .


Hell, the last conference I went to didn't even do that much. "Continental" breakfast, lunch explicitly stated as on your own. Granted, it was right across the street from Disney Springs in Orlando, so I just walked across and got a superb sandwich from Earl of Sandwich every day. Cost about $10 with a drink, but who cares?
 
2017-11-09 04:31:59 PM  
img.buzzfeed.comView Full Size
 
2017-11-09 10:14:15 PM  

mithras_angel: Sid_6.7: Have you ever looked at a hotel menu and wondered how the room service rates are decided in metropolitan areas?

There's something you miss there, though...

Most of the hotels government employees have to stay at...  don't have room service.

I've traveled on the government dime, for work (obviously), and out of 16 trips, one hotel had room service.

And the only reason we were at that hotel on the trip is because of a few other events (non-government) in the area had taken all the standard government cheap hotel spaces.

And even in that one, I still went out for Chinese, because I didn't like their RS menu.  (Ok, it was also well over the meal limits.)


With my job if I'm traveling, lots of people are traveling, and the hotels fill up quick.

I've had to stay at places an hour away, while working 12 hour days, 7 days a week.
 
2017-11-09 10:20:16 PM  

Makh: Have you tried the pizza places?  Don't tell me you can't find one in New Jersey.


Or legit Ethnic food.

/I think they mean "white table cloth" restaurants
//which is also false, plenty of Italian places serve pasta
///3
 
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