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(Independent)   Sure, some of Apple's behavior is unethical, but I can't live without my iPhone and they don't violate iMorals, so it's all good, right?   ( independent.co.uk) divider line
    More: Stupid, Apple Inc., Apple, cobalt Apple Store, enamoured Apple product, Apple health scare, moral anger melts, tax avoidance, face recognition software  
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1211 clicks; posted to Business » on 07 Nov 2017 at 6:24 AM (12 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-11-07 03:20:28 AM  
who can live without their iPhone?

I manage. The last Apple product I bought was an iPod. And that was probably a decade ago. It no longer holds a charge, btw.
 
2017-11-07 03:57:40 AM  
I joined the Linux cult a while back, so I think i'm obligated to hate apple....but to be honest, mostly I find apple products to be over hyped and targeted specifically for the technologically illiterate.
 
2017-11-07 04:06:13 AM  
ctrl+f "competition" - 0 results.
ctrl+f "samsung" - 0 results
ctrl+f "microsoft" - 0 results
ctrl+f "sony" - 0 results

I'm not going into the what's better technology, or even suggesting that companies like Samsung don't have their own dubious practices, they all do to feed us our insatiable lust for new things, and their investors insatiable lust for profit, but I just can't stand people who are seemingly so completely oblivious that there does exist competition to Apple.
 
2017-11-07 04:08:57 AM  

Slaxl: but I just can't stand people who are seemingly so completely oblivious that there does exist competition to Apple.


if Trump had apple's marketing department, he'd be the most beloved president in US history right now.  that's how GOOD those people are at their jobs.  I cannot fault Apple for their marketing team.  hands down, one of the best at their jobs in the world.

I just can't stand people who slavishly buy the newest iProduct and have no idea why they bought it or how to use it on a daily basis.
 
2017-11-07 06:43:27 AM  
Sure, some of Apple's behavior is unethical, but I can't live without my iPhone and they don't violate iMorals, so it's all igood, right?

ftfy
 
2017-11-07 07:18:51 AM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: Sure, some of Apple's behavior is unethical, but I can't ilive without my iPhone and they don't violate iMorals, so it's all igood, right?


ftfy
 
2017-11-07 07:22:00 AM  
I was eating breakfast just the other day with a guy, and he started complaining about his dad, who had just sent him a text how he was coming down about breakfast, while he was upstairs, about 100 feet away. The guy was like, So why does he have to send me a text when by time he sends it, he could already be here?

I laughed at him, because you know what he does? He works for Apple, for years. He knows EVERYTHING about Apple. His friend also laughed--he works for Apple too. They have every farking gidget and gadget and product that exists and they're plugged in the max. They run marathons with sixteen kinds of body monitors on them while they pound protein bars.

But it's all perfectly normal, and it's other people's technology that's the problem.
 
2017-11-07 07:24:13 AM  
Thor's iMighty iWrench: iPants iFull of iMacaroni!!: iSure, some of iApple's iBehavior is iEthical, but iCan't iLive without my iPhone and they don't iOlate iMorals, so it's all iGood, iRight?

ftfy


Logical conclusion.
 
2017-11-07 07:48:48 AM  
So, I actually read the story about Apple moving the residency of it's subsidiaries from Ireland to Jersey.  Can someone explain to me what is unethical about this?  The story I read said the change resulted in Apple actually paying more taxes to Ireland.  What is the problem?
 
2017-11-07 07:50:25 AM  

Weaver95: I joined the Linux cult a while back, so I think i'm obligated to hate apple....but to be honest, mostly I find apple products to be over hyped and targeted specifically for the technologically illiterate.


The Linux full are just fine with Apple. It's got a decent command line, after all.
 
2017-11-07 08:08:13 AM  
I'd successfully avoided Apple trash until May. It was bad enough seeing what others put up with.

Then I got a new job and was 'issued' an iPhone 6. Against my loud and frequent protestations, I might add.

What a piece of drek. You farking people *pay* to be treated like this? No wonder noone on the planet takes us seriously any more.

The software is shiat. The interface is shiat. The support is "Step on your balls and laugh at you, reminding you that you paid $700 for this and laugh some more while closing the ticket". Pretty much everything about the device is "Does it work? Better hope so, because fark you and your wallet if it don't"

The updates take what already worked like shiat and make it 10 times worse. They don't ASK what you want, they TELL you what you'll take and you'll STFU and smile. After all, it's not like you'll go elsewhere, you brainless farkwallet.

Nothing about this POS device outside of the camera is anything but weeping genital pustules given portable device form.
 
2017-11-07 08:12:24 AM  

Slaxl: Thor's iMighty iWrench: iPants iFull of iMacaroni!!: iSure, some of iApple's iBehavior is iEthical, but iCan't iLive without my iPhone and they don't iOlate iMorals, so it's all iGood, iRight?

iftfy

iLogical iconclusion.


iFtfy
 
2017-11-07 08:16:56 AM  
I learned to hate Apple back in the 80's and 90's.  It's stayed with me.
 
2017-11-07 08:20:08 AM  

QFarker: So, I actually read the story about Apple moving the residency of it's subsidiaries from Ireland to Jersey.  Can someone explain to me what is unethical about this?  The story I read said the change resulted in Apple actually paying more taxes to Ireland.  What is the problem?


No laws have been broken.  BTW, GE had a negative tax rate from 2009-2012 or so since they could write off losses from GE capital after the crisis.  Not one big company pays the corporate tax rate.
 
2017-11-07 08:39:59 AM  
We are supposed to hate all the corporations that use the existing tax laws to pay as little tax as possible? So, we should just boycott all large corporations? Are there people who are confused about what the primary mission of a for-profit corporation is?
 
2017-11-07 08:55:34 AM  

Weaver95: Slaxl: but I just can't stand people who are seemingly so completely oblivious that there does exist competition to Apple.

if Trump had apple's marketing department, he'd be the most beloved president in US history right now.  that's how GOOD those people are at their jobs.  I cannot fault Apple for their marketing team.  hands down, one of the best at their jobs in the world.

I just can't stand people who slavishly buy the newest iProduct and have no idea why they bought it or how to use it on a daily basis.


That's what gets me, the people queuing up on launch day to buy the latest iPhone or iPad.  If you look at a product, and its competitors, and decide you like it and it best meets your needs, then great. But if you queue up to buy a product on launch day you are not making an informed choice. You are buying blind. And if you then find out it has issues you don't like you then post rationalise them and convince yourself that bug is actually a good thing.

I've had three HTC smartphones and they have all been fantastic. But I never bought any of them on launch day. I waited until I'd read genuine reviews, got feedback, watched user videos on Youtube and tied them out in store. Past performance is not a guarantee of future performance.

Look at how many iPhone owners defended its smaller screen and said they hated the larger screens of rivals like Samsung and HTC. Right until Apple bought out a bigger screen iPhone, then it was a fantastic feature.
Ditto the lack of multitasking on the iPad. The Surface was dismissed with "Multitasing on a tablet! No thanks!" again right up to when Apple added (limited) multitasking on the iPad, and now it was a great feature.

Even now, as the most valuable company in the history of the world according to its stock market valuation, and with a famously reticent approach to financial transparency and taxation issues, it still retains this hippyish, vaguely bohemian, anti-corporate, Daniel-beats-Goliath image.

And some people still write Micro$oft unironically. While Apple has $252 billion in the bank.

img.fark.net
 
2017-11-07 09:07:13 AM  

Weaver95: I joined the Linux cult a while back, so I think i'm obligated to hate apple....but to be honest, mostly I find apple products to be over hyped and targeted specifically for the technologically illiterate.


You definitely sound like you're in a cult.
 
2017-11-07 09:28:28 AM  

bingethinker: You definitely sound like you're in a cult.


Says the person who comes into every Apple thread to show us how deep they can stick their tongue into Apple's asshole.
 
2017-11-07 10:14:26 AM  

fusillade762: who can live without their iPhone?

I manage. The last Apple product I bought was an iPod. And that was probably a decade ago. It no longer holds a charge, btw.


I have a 3rd gen Nano that has taken a beating and still runs great.  I'm not a fan of Apple products in general, but I love my iPod.
 
2017-11-07 10:20:49 AM  

Glitchwerks: Slaxl: Thor's iMighty iWrench: iPants iFull of iMacaroni!!: iSure, some of iApple's iBehavior is iEthical, but iCan't iLive without my iPhone and they don't iOlate iMorals, so it's all iGood, iRight?

iftfy

iLogical iconclusion.

iFtfy


iApple iLatin?
 
2017-11-07 10:21:56 AM  
fusillade762: The last Apple product I bought was an iPod. And that was probably a decade ago. It no longer holds a charge, btw.

Well, why don't you just swap the battery out for a new.....oh.
 
2017-11-07 10:33:08 AM  
If it's legal then Apple did nothing wrong.  If it's legal, then all of us did something wrong - buy allowing it to be so.
 
2017-11-07 11:30:04 AM  

Weaver95: I joined the Linux cult a while back, so I think i'm obligated to hate apple....but to be honest, mostly I find apple products to be over hyped and targeted specifically for the technologically illiterate.


I was in college when Apple started to really "come back" to being cool in the early/mid-2000s with the iPod and Macbooks being extremely popular.  When I'd ask people why they brought a Macbook to school rather than a comparable Windows PC that retailed for half the price, they'd mostly say "It just works!"  That's when I'd know I was dealing with someone who was technologically inept.

There are valid reasons to prefer Apple products, but if you can't articulate them, you're just buying it because it's fashionable and trendy.
 
2017-11-07 11:42:26 AM  
I never hated Apple. I'm just a cheap bastard who can do a cost-benefit analysis.
 
2017-11-07 11:56:58 AM  

Weaver95: I joined the Linux cult a while back, so I think i'm obligated to hate apple....but to be honest, mostly I find apple products to be over hyped and targeted specifically for the technologically illiterate.


I'm sitting in an office of a hundred technologically literate engineers who are given a choice of their operating system.  90%+ of them have chosen Mac OS X over Linux or Windows.  Which is not unusual.

/linux is only free if your time has no value
 
2017-11-07 11:58:47 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: I learned to hate Apple back in the 80's and 90's.  It's stayed with me.


I learned my lesson regarding computer cults during my time as an Amiga user.  After Commodore folded, I just went the mainstream route while many of my friends went the Macintosh or Linux route.  Looking at the strange love/hate relationship my computer cultist friends have with their environments, I don't regret the decision.

/Commodore was incorporated in the Bahamas for the similar tax avoidance and bankruptcy protective reasons
//if worker suicides at the Foxconn factory making iGadgets didn't turn people off, some "harmless" tax avoidance sure isn't going to do it
 
2017-11-07 01:04:25 PM  

Weaver95: I joined the Linux cult a while back, so I think i'm obligated to hate apple....but to be honest, mostly I find apple products to be over hyped and targeted specifically for the technologically illiterate.


Er, why?  For pushing the great microkernel heresy?  While the closed nature  of the iphone isn't great, good luck finding a good unlocked andriod phone.  I think Google has locked down their "linux" phone at least as well as Apple has thier phone.  I will recommend pointing and laughing at the winphone and pointing out that the "year of mobile microsoft" is less likely than the Linux desktop.
 
2017-11-07 01:12:24 PM  
The Panama Papers and the Paradise papers just reflect the philosophy of the corporate world and many of our politicians that moral and ethical are synonyms for legal.  If it'is legal, even if only marginal, then it is OK.  Also, our leaders all try to manipulate us through appeals to nationalism and patriotism when they have no loyalty but to themselves and to the international super-rich class.  Nations mean nothing to them while they try to make it mean everything to us.
 
2017-11-07 01:34:12 PM  

Stone Meadow: I never hated Apple. I'm just a cheap bastard who can do a cost-benefit analysis.


Ha. Every time I get a new job (and that's frequently), I have to tell my bosses that I don't have a smartphone, and I'm not going to get one. I have a tracphone that costs me about $6 a month, and it works. It also texts.

Now if my bosses would like me to always be in phone contact (I work out in the boonies usually), or send me pictures or some farking thing, I guess they can get me a smartphone to use while I work there. I have to make this speech at every single job now.

No one has ever gotten me a smartphone. It's OK if the poor slob working for you wants to spend their measly income on a smartphone they don't actually need, but supply one for your employees? Not a chance.

You can all blow me. I am never getting a smartphone.
 
2017-11-07 02:03:12 PM  
cryinoutloud:
You can all blow me. I am never getting a smartphone.

What is your age demographic? I need more information to gauge my feelings.
 
2017-11-07 05:20:14 PM  
Why would you want to see the end of Apple, O'Grady? Why couldn't you be satisfied with repayment of taxes owed, a punitive fine and ethical behavior going forward? Why are you an asshole?
 
2017-11-07 05:34:51 PM  
Sheesh, time for me to be all hipster...I was hating Apple before hating Apple was cool,  that's how it works, right?

My first home computer was an Apple IIGS.  Beautiful machine.  Then they said "No new Apple II" stuff, and I went "Okay, reasonable, you're going another direction".   Then they said "Oh yeah, and we won't make replacement parts for your Apple II, nor can you take it to a dealership for repairs."   Keep in mind, this was when there were ZERO independent people doing Apple repairs.

Fark you, Apple!
 
2017-11-07 05:38:13 PM  
Apple makes decent but overpriced laptops, and absolute garbage everything else. My iPod is the worst device I have ever had the misfortune of owning.
 
2017-11-07 05:54:54 PM  

QFarker: So, I actually read the story about Apple moving the residency of it's subsidiaries from Ireland to Jersey.  Can someone explain to me what is unethical about this?  The story I read said the change resulted in Apple actually paying more taxes to Ireland.  What is the problem?


The general complaint is that Apple is using creative accounting to lower it's taxes.  There's nothing exactly illegal about what they are doing, though, and it is logical for any for profit business to attempt to pay as little taxes as possible.
 
2017-11-07 06:07:49 PM  

cryinoutloud: You can all blow me. I am never getting a smartphone.


A woman after my own heart.

/also doesn't own a smartphone and will resist to the end
 
2017-11-07 08:58:35 PM  

Farabor: Sheesh, time for me to be all hipster...I was hating Apple before hating Apple was cool,  that's how it works, right?

My first home computer was an Apple IIGS.  Beautiful machine.  Then they said "No new Apple II" stuff, and I went "Okay, reasonable, you're going another direction".   Then they said "Oh yeah, and we won't make replacement parts for your Apple II, nor can you take it to a dealership for repairs."   Keep in mind, this was when there were ZERO independent people doing Apple repairs.

Fark you, Apple!


I was actually kind of shocked that Apple actually moved to USB-C for some things. Normally they're all "Want to replace your Apple mag-safe power brick with one designed by a somebody competent who actually understands things like stress relief? fark you! We've patented the damn thing and licensed it to nobody!"
 
2017-11-08 07:22:25 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: Weaver95: I joined the Linux cult a while back, so I think i'm obligated to hate apple....but to be honest, mostly I find apple products to be over hyped and targeted specifically for the technologically illiterate.

I was in college when Apple started to really "come back" to being cool in the early/mid-2000s with the iPod and Macbooks being extremely popular.  When I'd ask people why they brought a Macbook to school rather than a comparable Windows PC that retailed for half the price, they'd mostly say "It just works!"  That's when I'd know I was dealing with someone who was technologically inept.

There are valid reasons to prefer Apple products, but if you can't articulate them, you're just buying it because it's fashionable and trendy.


For my part I'm a long haired, grey-bearded former Network Engineer, now Software Engineer, who has been programming since the age of 10. I help maintain the core and many of the extensions for the Tcl/Tk programming language. I use a Mac.

Why?

First reason, it's Unix. Not Linux, bona fide, Unix (descended from NetBSD.) And Unix with superb driver support. I go to conferences, plug the damn thing into the projector, and boom, it frigging works every time. (Ok, there is one funny story I have with Richard Hipp and his mac at a conference... but moving on...)

Second, total cost of ownership. The price different between Mac and PC is usually not an apples to apples comparison. If you were to spec out a Windows machine of similar build quality and performance it would cost slightly more. If you buy the cheaper machine, you are generally replacing it twice as often. Either the performance gets to be a genuine hinderance to productivity or the damn thing falls apart.

I speak from experience, I've run a large research institution's network for 10 years. We got 3 good years out of a Dell before we had to throw the damn things out. Apples ... well the director would get the new one, the manager would get her old one, and each would be passed along all the way down to the Intern and the print server for the plotting machine. There were 10 year old iMacs still in serviceable condition when I left that job.

Third: Total user experience. If you haven't experienced Time Machine vs. just about every other backup solution out there... I just can't explain it to you. And even better, when I finally treat myself to a new machine I just take it home (or to the office) plug in the power, plug in the backup drive and it ask me "Get Skippy, is this a replacement for your old machine?" And if I say yes, a few hours later the new machine wakes up with all of my documents, all of my settings, and all of my programs. Installed. Ready to use. Just like my previous machine.

For the guy who spent a decade trying to recover other people's files from machines that let the magic smoke out, this is the best feature of all. No matter where I am in the world if my macbook takes a turn for the worse or is stolen, I can be back up and running in a matter of hours after a quick stop at best buy or the Apple Store. Overnight if I have to fedex a backup drive from home.

And that's a completely automated, unattended process. It's goddamned magic. And I'm the kind of guy who has had to script tape changes for robotic backup systems.
 
2017-11-08 07:27:46 AM  

gingerjet: Weaver95: I joined the Linux cult a while back, so I think i'm obligated to hate apple....but to be honest, mostly I find apple products to be over hyped and targeted specifically for the technologically illiterate.

I'm sitting in an office of a hundred technologically literate engineers who are given a choice of their operating system.  90%+ of them have chosen Mac OS X over Linux or Windows.  Which is not unusual.

/linux is only free if your time has no value


I have similar experiences at Tech conferences. Though I have noticed we are collectively stuck in 2015. There was the last MacBook with the direct HDMI port on the side. I actually bought mine in 2016 from someone's stockpile on Amazon.
 
2017-11-08 07:39:44 AM  

Farabor: Sheesh, time for me to be all hipster...I was hating Apple before hating Apple was cool,  that's how it works, right?

My first home computer was an Apple IIGS.  Beautiful machine.  Then they said "No new Apple II" stuff, and I went "Okay, reasonable, you're going another direction".   Then they said "Oh yeah, and we won't make replacement parts for your Apple II, nor can you take it to a dealership for repairs."   Keep in mind, this was when there were ZERO independent people doing Apple repairs.

Fark you, Apple!


You must have moved over from an alternate time line.

Apple did not open up it's own stores until 2001.  Unless you bought something directly from Apple(ordering it via the mail) all sales and service were done by independents then.
 
2017-11-08 07:54:41 AM  

Evil Twin Skippy: HMS_Blinkin: Weaver95: I joined the Linux cult a while back, so I think i'm obligated to hate apple....but to be honest, mostly I find apple products to be over hyped and targeted specifically for the technologically illiterate.

I was in college when Apple started to really "come back" to being cool in the early/mid-2000s with the iPod and Macbooks being extremely popular.  When I'd ask people why they brought a Macbook to school rather than a comparable Windows PC that retailed for half the price, they'd mostly say "It just works!"  That's when I'd know I was dealing with someone who was technologically inept.

There are valid reasons to prefer Apple products, but if you can't articulate them, you're just buying it because it's fashionable and trendy.

For my part I'm a long haired, grey-bearded former Network Engineer, now Software Engineer, who has been programming since the age of 10. I help maintain the core and many of the extensions for the Tcl/Tk programming language. I use a Mac.

Why?

First reason, it's Unix. Not Linux, bona fide, Unix (descended from NetBSD.) And Unix with superb driver support. I go to conferences, plug the damn thing into the projector, and boom, it frigging works every time. (Ok, there is one funny story I have with Richard Hipp and his mac at a conference... but moving on...)

Second, total cost of ownership. The price different between Mac and PC is usually not an apples to apples comparison. If you were to spec out a Windows machine of similar build quality and performance it would cost slightly more. If you buy the cheaper machine, you are generally replacing it twice as often. Either the performance gets to be a genuine hinderance to productivity or the damn thing falls apart.

I speak from experience, I've run a large research institution's network for 10 years. We got 3 good years out of a Dell before we had to throw the damn things out. Apples ... well the director would get the new one, the manager would get her old one, and ...


Yeah, at 48 years old I am in the same category, and literally worked with MS products from 93-2015.

I started out installing medical billing systems, then became a consultant who specced out and built networks.  Then I became a sales engineer for a software development house, then somewhere along the lines i got hired by an international software house based in Latin America.

I came back to the states, was making a ton of money at a large telecom, but they treated me like shiat.

For grins I applied to work from home for Apple.  Two years later, three promotions, and fair amount of Apple stock in bonuses, while I am not making the same money, I do work in my pjs, write off a fair amount for home office on my taxes, the company treats me like gold.

I was a vicious Apple hater(as you can see by my past posts) I would argue with the top three fanboys here(and one still denies I work for Apple).  I argued about products I had never touched.  Last Apple I had was an Apple 2.

I started out in IOS.

So I bought a personal Imac, and forced myself to do everything on it I could do on a windows box.

Six months later I was trained and tested and moved over to the OS X side of the house.  Then six months after that I was made part of a program where if someone has a ton of Apple products, I do the support as a one stop shop.

You are right about TCO, people keep their Macs for years, because for the most part they do just work.  My personal Imac is in my bedroom connected to a 32 inch lcd tv, and and 50 inch LED.

I watch videos on the big screen, and have multiple applications doing their things while I am doing others.

I have rebooted it twice this year.  Once to install the high sierra update, and when Hurricane Irma killed the power.

There came a point in my life where I just wanted to get shiat done, not have to tinker to make it work then get shiat done.

Have I totally drunk the kool aid?  No.

But.

1.Apple treats its customers well.
2.They treat me well
 
2017-11-08 08:52:05 AM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Second, total cost of ownership. The price different between Mac and PC is usually not an apples to apples comparison. If you were to spec out a Windows machine of similar build quality and performance it would cost slightly more. If you buy the cheaper machine, you are generally replacing it twice as often. Either the performance gets to be a genuine hinderance to productivity or the damn thing falls apart.


$2,000 Custom PC vs $4,000 Mac Pro
Youtube NDmOHU6lmRw
 
2017-11-08 09:41:56 AM  

GameSprocket: We are supposed to hate all the corporations that use the existing tax laws to pay as little tax as possible? So, we should just boycott all large corporations? Are there people who are confused about what the primary mission of a for-profit corporation is?


Came here to say this, although you said it more eloquently.
I will add another point: if you itemize your deductions you are also using the tax laws to minimize the taxes you pay.  Should I boycott you?
 
2017-11-08 10:05:54 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Evil Twin Skippy: Second, total cost of ownership. The price different between Mac and PC is usually not an apples to apples comparison. If you were to spec out a Windows machine of similar build quality and performance it would cost slightly more. If you buy the cheaper machine, you are generally replacing it twice as often. Either the performance gets to be a genuine hinderance to productivity or the damn thing falls apart.

[YouTube video]


$2k machine with refurbished parts and overclocked beats a $4k machine from 2 years prior at one benchmark.

That was 30 seconds of the 8 minute video. The rest was about how his sound panels smelled, his desk was a bodge from the "as is" section of IKEA, him getting flamed for buying parts refurbished, and more or less him talking out his ass.
 
2017-11-08 10:19:03 AM  

cryinoutloud: Stone Meadow: I never hated Apple. I'm just a cheap bastard who can do a cost-benefit analysis.

Ha. Every time I get a new job (and that's frequently), I have to tell my bosses that I don't have a smartphone, and I'm not going to get one. I have a tracphone that costs me about $6 a month, and it works. It also texts.

Now if my bosses would like me to always be in phone contact (I work out in the boonies usually), or send me pictures or some farking thing, I guess they can get me a smartphone to use while I work there. I have to make this speech at every single job now.

No one has ever gotten me a smartphone. It's OK if the poor slob working for you wants to spend their measly income on a smartphone they don't actually need, but supply one for your employees? Not a chance.

You can all blow me. I am never getting a smartphone.


I have a smartphone because work gives it to me and makes me carry it.
I have no other cell phone. I don't even want this one.
 
2017-11-08 12:26:48 PM  
In case anyone was interested in actual data (from IBM, no less) to back up the "Macs are cheaper to own in the long run" claim:
https://www.computerworld.com/article​/​3131906/apple-mac/ibm-says-macs-are-ev​en-cheaper-to-run-than-it-thought.html​
 
2017-11-08 12:31:55 PM  
Back on topic, I generally like Apple products, but this tax dodging crap drives me nuts. I get it, they do it because it's not technically illegal. I get it, all large corporations do it. It pisses me off because the world could be such a better place if we would stop allowing and rewarding such behavior.
 
2017-11-08 06:04:41 PM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Carter Pewterschmidt: Evil Twin Skippy: Second, total cost of ownership. The price different between Mac and PC is usually not an apples to apples comparison. If you were to spec out a Windows machine of similar build quality and performance it would cost slightly more. If you buy the cheaper machine, you are generally replacing it twice as often. Either the performance gets to be a genuine hinderance to productivity or the damn thing falls apart.

[YouTube video]

$2k machine with refurbished parts and overclocked beats a $4k machine from 2 years prior at one benchmark.

That was 30 seconds of the 8 minute video. The rest was about how his sound panels smelled, his desk was a bodge from the "as is" section of IKEA, him getting flamed for buying parts refurbished, and more or less him talking out his ass.


One benchmark? Know how I know you didn't watch the video? They ran a bunch of different graphics benchmarks, and the PC creamed the Mac Pro. And that is was a two year old design was kinda the point, Apple had not upgraded the Mac Pro in all that time. It was a two year old design but it was still the very latest model available from Apple.

And a "refurbished parts" can beat your top spec machine then how is that a good thing for Apple?  The video suggests only the PSU was refurbished, and then replaced with brand new. All the RAM, CPU etc he described as brand new.

sherkaner: In case anyone was interested in actual data (from IBM, no less) to back up the "Macs are cheaper to own in the long run" claim:
https://www.computerworld.com/article/​3131906/apple-mac/ibm-says-macs-are-ev​en-cheaper-to-run-than-it-thought.html​


Interesting article. I wonder how much of that is down to the people choosing Macs are, by definition, Mac fans who will probably have one at home anyway and know how to use it without needing tech support? That group is a self-selecting group who do not need hand holding. Force everyone to have a Mac and then you'll have all the non savvy users, and yes even within IBM there will be a lot of less savvy when it comes to PC users, who will make just as many calls to tech support as they would have done on a PC.
For example if I were to join a company I'd have exactly the opposite experience. Give me a PC and I'll know how to use it and find it easy. Give me a Mac and I'd have to call for support.
I'd assume IBM have taken that into account....
 
2017-11-08 06:31:04 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Evil Twin Skippy: Carter Pewterschmidt: Evil Twin Skippy:

...

One benchmark? Know how I know you didn't watch the video? They ran a bunch of different graphics benchmarks, and the PC creamed the Mac Pro. And that is was a two year old design was kinda the point, Apple had not upgraded the Mac Pro in all that time. It was a two year old design but it was still the very latest model available from Apple.


Mea Culpa. It was 3 benchmarks. I was in a doctor's office and when he didn't get to the point by minute 3 I skipped around. Looks like I missed something.


And a "refurbished parts" can beat your top spec machine then how is that a good thing for Apple?  The video suggests only the PSU was refurbished, and then replaced with brand new. All the RAM, CPU etc he described as brand new.


Again, the first benchmark didn't kick in until 4 MINUTES INTO THE VIDEO. He spent longer describing the return process for the power supply than he spent on the analysis. He went into depth about how he was flamed for using refurbished parts. He never actually says "all the parts are new." Just that he put it together in a few hours for $2k.


sherkaner: In case anyone was interested in actual data (from IBM, no less) to back up the "Macs are cheaper to own in the long run" claim:
https://www.computerworld.com/article/​3131906/apple-mac/ibm-says-macs-are-ev​en-cheaper-to-run-than-it-thought.html

Interesting article. I wonder how much of that is down to the people choosing Macs are, by definition, Mac fans who will probably have one at home anyway and know how to use it without needing tech support? That group is a self-selecting group who do not need hand holding. Force everyone to have a Mac and then you'll have all t ...


Or how much is it down to farkING DISPASSIONATE PROFESSIONALS WHO DO THIS shiat FOR A LIVING. You are claiming that you can just palm off a study done by International Business Machines because they are a bunch of mac lovers? They did this study over hundreds of thousands of users over multiple years. You ding me for missing a minute, literally a minute, in the middle of a youtube "your blog sucks" and you can't even get a paragraph into a news article.

This isn't a debate. You are just mental master-bating with your own brand of lube.
 
2017-11-08 07:46:10 PM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Or how much is it down to farkING DISPASSIONATE PROFESSIONALS WHO DO THIS shiat FOR A LIVING. You are claiming that you can just palm off a study done by International Business Machines because they are a bunch of mac lovers? They did this study over hundreds of thousands of users over multiple years. You ding me for missing a minute, literally a minute, in the middle of a youtube "your blog sucks" and you can't even get a paragraph into a news article.

This isn't a debate. You are just mental master-bating with your own brand of lube.


You're talking about IBM. Who started the PC industry without locking up the components, allowing dozens of clones to steal their market from them within a couple of years and who were taken to the cleaners by Bill Gates and allowed him to become the richest man in the world. Off their stupidity.

And yes, giving people machines they are familiar with will result in less need for support, no matter whether that machine is inherently better or not. If you have a Honda and your company makes you drive a Ford you'll have a learning curve where you keep turning on the wipers when you mean to turn left. If your company lets you choose to drive a Honda you'll be able to use it without a second thought. That is not proof that Hondas are better than Fords.
Almost by definition those with a Mac at home will ask for a Mac. Those with a PC will ask for a PC.

That article was a year old. How come Mac sales are actually declining? The entire desktop PC market is declining but depending on who you believe Mac sales are either declining "not quite as bad as everyone else" or "slightly more than everyone else."  Mac sales fell 5.6% while the total market fell 3.6% according to Gartner.
 
2017-11-08 08:00:44 PM  
Carter Pewterschmidt:

Time to take my rabid Mac fan/crazy Unix grey beard hat off for a while.

Part of the reason is that the 2016 line of macs sucked. Hard. They changed all the plugs. They added that stupid touch gizmo to the Mac line. And despite catering to professionals who tell Mac time and time again that we hate the farking dongles: a) they removed the straight up HDMI port off the professional grade MacBook and b) replaced ALL of the dongles AND the power connector with USB-C.

There are some problems in Cupertino. They need to get back to building computers we actually need rather than telling what we need in a computer.
 
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