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(Washington Post)   Why is Star Trek so dark and pessimistic now? Because, as always, it's a reflection of its times   ( washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: The Original Series, Spock, original series, trickster Harry Mudd, new television series, 'Star Trek  
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475 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 04 Nov 2017 at 9:24 PM (12 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-11-04 07:55:40 PM  
Yeah, it's not like there was a highly divisive war going on when TOS was airing.
 
2017-11-04 07:58:22 PM  
 
2017-11-04 08:01:45 PM  
Because dark and gritty sells better that shiny and optimistic.
 
2017-11-04 08:06:00 PM  
We are entering the "Past Tense" from DS9 part of our history
 
2017-11-04 08:30:34 PM  
Star Trek II and VI were darker than Gene Roddenberry's vision, yet they weren't cynical.

In Star Trek II and VI, Kirk grapples with his skepticism/doubts, still managing to surmount them and defeat villains hoping to subvert the Federation for their own selfish reasons.
 
2017-11-04 09:04:21 PM  
Optimistic like when TNG had a whole episode that very carefully didn't talk about gay rights? Or Dr. Crusher is raped by a space ghost. Optimistic like in TOS when Kirk says women can't be captains in Star Fleet? Optimistic like when Archer commits genocide because neither he nor his ship's medical doctor understand what evolution is?
 
2017-11-04 09:06:05 PM  
img.fark.net

They need these guys.
 
2017-11-04 09:34:22 PM  

a particular individual: I haven't seen it, but this article makes sense.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/why-new-st​ar-trek-series-best-one-ever-made/


Jesus farking Christ of course cracked would like it
 
2017-11-04 09:39:19 PM  
img.fark.netimg.fark.net

Hmmm..... really makes you think
Youtube QhnsC2V4_0w
 
2017-11-04 09:39:29 PM  

albuquerquehalsey: a particular individual: I haven't seen it, but this article makes sense.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/why-new-st​ar-trek-series-best-one-ever-made/

Jesus farking Christ of course cracked would like it


Yeah, I haven't heard much good about it. Don't plan to watch it.

I'm not a Trekkie, but I've followed the series since TOS. I'm divided. On the one hand, I think it's mostly bad acting and superficial philosophy. On the other hand, I think Spock is one of the greatest characters in the history of TV (if you include the movies).
 
2017-11-04 09:48:56 PM  
I really liked the last episode, with the time loop.

I also really liked the last episode of The Orville.

And now I'm really not sure why I'm on Fark.  o.O
 
2017-11-04 09:54:18 PM  
It is a reflection of Game of Thrones and producters greed to cash in on a trend
 
2017-11-04 09:54:40 PM  
TOS was during a time of optimism and expansion, when despite troubles it felt like American and world lives were getting better.

We're in a time of collapse and deep pessimism. It's hard to see how society will be better in ten or twenty years from now, not to mention environmental decline.

It's not a surprise our cultural artifacts reflect this.
 
2017-11-04 09:59:52 PM  

albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/QhnsC2V4​_0w]


I'll trust the people watching it over the critics any day of the week.

And it certainly seems that while the critics love Discovery, the people watching it really don't.
 
2017-11-04 10:00:51 PM  
I'm watching the Orville instead of Discovery.  fark CBS all access.  I will watch it if it is ever free over-the-air and judge it then.
 
2017-11-04 10:02:03 PM  

fusillade762: Yeah, it's not like there was a highly divisive war going on when TOS was airing.


And certainly no racial divisiveness.  Everyone got along pretty well back then.
 
2017-11-04 10:07:17 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: TOS was during a time of optimism and expansion, when despite troubles it felt like American and world lives were getting better.

We're in a time of collapse and deep pessimism. It's hard to see how society will be better in ten or twenty years from now, not to mention environmental decline.


These days today are all unicorns and rainbows by late 60s standards.

People then could be forgiven for thinking it was the end of times, even though they'd have been wrong too.

see also :

great depression/s
flu epidemic/s
civil war/s
world wars
black death

We've got it easy.
 
2017-11-04 10:19:52 PM  

Shostie: Because dark and gritty sells better that shiny and optimistic.


img.fark.net

/the grimdark Universe crew is still floating out there somewhere...
 
2017-11-04 10:23:52 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: TOS was during a time of optimism and expansion, when despite troubles it felt like American and world lives were getting better.

We're in a time of collapse and deep pessimism. It's hard to see how society will be better in ten or twenty years from now, not to mention environmental decline.

It's not a surprise our cultural artifacts reflect this.


img.fark.net
 
2017-11-04 10:26:39 PM  

sex_and_drugs_for_ian: We've got it easy


Don't look at social media.  Somebody with indoor plumbing and hot running clean water and a car and a refrigerator filled with food and heat and EM services a phone dial away is probably pissed off about something that's offending their cultural-centric aesthetic sensibilities.

/haven't checked out the new ST yet but I will based on this thread
 
2017-11-04 10:33:45 PM  
Because previous Trek adhered to Roddenberry's rules on how to do it, and modern Trek doesn't.
 
2017-11-04 10:35:12 PM  

AurizenDarkstar: albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/QhnsC2V4​_0w]

I'll trust the people watching it over the critics any day of the week.

And it certainly seems that while the critics love Discovery, the people watching it really don't.


I like it. I find it quite the hoot.
 
2017-11-04 10:38:59 PM  

AurizenDarkstar: albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/QhnsC2V4​_0w]

I'll trust the people watching it over the critics any day of the week.

And it certainly seems that while the critics love Discovery, the people watching it really don't.


Never trust internet reviews, though. It's usually heavily swayed by brigading, trolling, and just garden variety insane people. 

(Fun fact - I work in a hotel, and we had a very negative review that we actually were expected to respond to about how our swimming pool was filthy. We have never had a swimming pool. Ever. The building was built in the 1940's and at no time has it ever had anything resembling a swimming pool. So I really do not understand why customer ratings on websites for anything are trusted.)
 
2017-11-04 10:40:23 PM  

fusillade762: Yeah, it's not like there was a highly divisive war going on when TOS was airing.


Well, it's quite interesting in perspective.  Things were, arguably and in terms of most data we have, significantly worse in terms of the Civil Rights movement, crime, violence, and warfare (maybe not economically, at least for whites, but it was starting to get worse going into the 70s).  Yet we were more optimistic.  Today, there's less violence, less crime, and, while white supremacist nonsense is way more prevalent than it should be, we at least have things like the Civil Rights Act and the space to fight for LGBTQ rights, where that would have been more an era of "hide your gays", still.  Objectively, we're much better off, but see a much darker future.  They had a lot more reason to be cynical, yet they weren't.
 
2017-11-04 10:43:57 PM  

frestcrallen: sex_and_drugs_for_ian: We've got it easy

Don't look at social media.  Somebody with indoor plumbing and hot running clean water and a car and a refrigerator filled with food and heat and EM services a phone dial away is probably pissed off about something that's offending their cultural-centric aesthetic sensibilities.


I've no doubt.

I'm also sympathetic to the reflex that tells us, since this is the time I occupy, it must also of course be the most trying of times ever known.

History begins with our own birth and ends with our own death.
 
2017-11-04 10:50:09 PM  

PleaseHamletDon'tHurtEm: Shostie: Because dark and gritty sells better that shiny and optimistic.

[img.fark.net image 349x196]

/the grimdark Universe crew is still floating out there somewhere...


Goddamn I miss Stargate.
 
2017-11-04 10:52:44 PM  

albuquerquehalsey: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: TOS was during a time of optimism and expansion, when despite troubles it felt like American and world lives were getting better.

We're in a time of collapse and deep pessimism. It's hard to see how society will be better in ten or twenty years from now, not to mention environmental decline.

It's not a surprise our cultural artifacts reflect this.

[img.fark.net image 425x239]


Wait, what? You don't think this is a time of extreme pessimism? Or are you just wanting to post a dumb meme?
 
2017-11-04 11:14:29 PM  

Shostie: PleaseHamletDon'tHurtEm: Shostie: Because dark and gritty sells better that shiny and optimistic.

[img.fark.net image 349x196]

/the grimdark Universe crew is still floating out there somewhere...

Goddamn I miss Stargate.


Been saying that every day for a while now... :(

/please let the new thing be good
 
2017-11-04 11:15:01 PM  
I'm not breaking any rules by enjoying both am I?
 
2017-11-04 11:25:45 PM  

RevMercutio: Because previous Trek adhered to Roddenberry's rules on how to do it, and modern Trek doesn't.


Honestly, if Roddenberry had had his way there would have been naked women and orgies in just about every episode.
 
2017-11-04 11:26:26 PM  

NeoCortex42: fusillade762: Yeah, it's not like there was a highly divisive war going on when TOS was airing.

And certainly no racial divisiveness.  Everyone got along pretty well back then.


This is true, but at the time great strides have been made in the last 10 years. I think Roddenberry saw optimism in the future, which is why he had a black woman on the bridge. It may not seem like much now, what was how she always clutched to Captain Kirk when things get tough, but at the time it was quite revolutionary.

Say what you want about TOS, in many ways it was a very optimistic and forward-thinking serious. For the 1960s
 
2017-11-04 11:31:00 PM  

albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[YouTube video]


I really enjoyed Orville. Like most of Seth MacFarlane's stuff, I don't actually find it that funny, more sort of vaguely amusing.

SPILER ALERT
I did really enjoy the episode where they had the big Morel play and lost. One of the things I never really liked about Star Trek as much is how their culture always one, always was best.
 
2017-11-04 11:35:44 PM  

Special J: I'm not breaking any rules by enjoying both am I?


Nope. Enjoy both.

The arguements are about ideals of earlier shows and writing quality (neither are The Wire/West Wing).

/ one does have a dumber crew
// oddly not the one captained by The Family Guy
 
2017-11-04 11:48:37 PM  

chawco: albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[YouTube video]

I really enjoyed Orville. Like most of Seth MacFarlane's stuff, I don't actually find it that funny, more sort of vaguely amusing.

SPILER ALERT
I did really enjoy the episode where they had the big Morel play and lost. One of the things I never really liked about Star Trek as much is how their culture always one, always was best.


I binged the first few episodes to catch up. That episode, being so early in the season/series, is what moved me from meh to hooked. Episodes have been hit or miss, but I thought that one was really good, for the reasons you mentioned.
 
2017-11-04 11:53:38 PM  

Shostie: Because dark and gritty sells better that shiny and optimistic.


This.

No matter what it is, nerds always want serious, dark and gritty.
You can't just have a special forces, it has to be an EXTREME FORCE.
 
2017-11-05 12:05:28 AM  

albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/QhnsC2V4​_0w]


Why do people become critics? Because the majority of them don't have any actual talent to create something.
 
2017-11-05 12:37:13 AM  

chawco: albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[YouTube video]

I really enjoyed Orville. Like most of Seth MacFarlane's stuff, I don't actually find it that funny, more sort of vaguely amusing.

SPILER ALERT
I did really enjoy the episode where they had the big Morel play and lost. One of the things I never really liked about Star Trek as much is how their culture always one, always was best.


I like that that the crew doesn't always win, they don't fix every society.
 
2017-11-05 12:48:36 AM  

ModernLuddite: ...
(Fun fact - I work in a hotel, and we had a very negative review that we actually were expected to respond to about how our swimming pool was filthy. We have never had a swimming pool. Ever. The building was built in the 1940's and at no time has it ever had anything resembling a swimming pool. So I really do not understand why customer ratings on websites for anything are trusted.)


Did you check to make sure the basement wasn't flooded?
 
2017-11-05 04:02:46 AM  

albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/QhnsC2V4​_0w]


the public are morons?

The Orville is OK, perhaps the critics were being a bit harsh there, but the public downvotes for STD are a vocal minority.  just check the votes distribution on IMDB
 
2017-11-05 04:39:02 AM  

American Decency Association: albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/QhnsC2V4​_0w]

the public are morons?

The Orville is OK, perhaps the critics were being a bit harsh there, but the public downvotes for STD are a vocal minority.  just check the votes distribution on IMDB


Pretty much. It's just a bunch of angry Trekkies who hate new things and downvote, cause of course they do. More VOYAGER, they shout.
 
2017-11-05 05:13:23 AM  
Look, it's simple. The Orville is for people who want comfort food, the old Star Trek TNG they grew up with. They are super happy with Seth MacFarlaland as Captain, to tell Brannan Braga stories he never got to show when Enterprise was cancelled. It makes them happy and like OMG Star Trek! Just like when I was a kid! That Black Mirror show never happened, cause I would never watch new things so it was new to me! Plus it's got boob jokes!

Discovery is exactly what Trekkies begged for. A dark, new experience in the Federation, featuring interesting new characters, possibly the origin of Section 31, and a focus on the people who really aren't down with this whole utopia version of reality.

I watch them both, but damn sure I'm more excited about the next episode of Star Trek than listening to an hour of Dr. Crusher whining about being lost from her Wesleys. God, The Orville.
 
2017-11-05 05:35:56 AM  
I said it before: all of TV and movie history has been a constant march toward "grittier and more realistic."

Look at westerns. The Westerns of the 70's with Henry Fonda or Clint Eastwood were way  "grittier and more realistic" than the John Wayne movies of the 50's and 60s. But today they look like Blazing Saddles when you compare them to Deadwood or Jango.

Batman. The first Nicholson and Keaton move was "grittier and more realistic"  and "darker" than the Adam West TV show. But looking back, Nicholson in that purple looks like Ceaser Romero compared to Heath Ledger's performance.
 
2017-11-05 05:52:02 AM  
"Hey, have you seen Homeland? Let's make that, but in space."
 
2017-11-05 07:50:22 AM  

chawco: albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[YouTube video]

I really enjoyed Orville. Like most of Seth MacFarlane's stuff, I don't actually find it that funny, more sort of vaguely amusing.

SPILER ALERT
I did really enjoy the episode where they had the big Morel play and lost. One of the things I never really liked about Star Trek as much is how their culture always one, always was best.


Discovery is the one with the mushrooms.
 
2017-11-05 08:30:17 AM  
It's darker, but I wouldn't say it's pessimistic.  The peaceful utopia of the Federation only works because everyone in it makes it work.  Discovery shows that people are still fallible and tempted by anger, and that maintaining the ideals of the Federation takes work. And we know the Federation ideals are going to eventually win because it's a prequel.

To use it as an analogue of current events; despite all the rancor and dumb decisions we are making, a Federation future is still possible if we work at it.  How is that not the ultimate optimism?
 
2017-11-05 08:32:53 AM  

ModernLuddite: AurizenDarkstar: albuquerquehalsey: [img.fark.net image 761x367][img.fark.net image 752x408]

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/QhnsC2V4​_0w]

I'll trust the people watching it over the critics any day of the week.

And it certainly seems that while the critics love Discovery, the people watching it really don't.

Never trust internet reviews, though. It's usually heavily swayed by brigading, trolling, and just garden variety insane people. 

(Fun fact - I work in a hotel, and we had a very negative review that we actually were expected to respond to about how our swimming pool was filthy. We have never had a swimming pool. Ever. The building was built in the 1940's and at no time has it ever had anything resembling a swimming pool. So I really do not understand why customer ratings on websites for anything are trusted.)


Oh, I don't.  But I've seen bits & pieces of 4 episodes, and can personally say I find nothing redeeming about the show at all.  I guess maybe it's because I'm old school when it comes to Trek (didn't like the JJ-verse ones either).  I continue to say had they marketed it as a somewhat dystopian generic science-fiction show, I might have given it a better chance, but as Star Tre, it fails miserably.
 
2017-11-05 10:57:10 AM  

AurizenDarkstar: But I've seen bits & pieces of 4 episodes, and can personally say I find nothing redeeming about the show at all


This is how you can tell a fine reviewer. One we should all take seriously.
 
2017-11-05 11:08:06 AM  
chawco:
I did really enjoy the episode where they had the big Morel play and lost. One of the things I never really liked about Star Trek as much is how their culture always one, always was best.

GIS for "big morel play":
img.fark.net

/I'm assuming an autocorrect fail
//at least, I hope so
///yes, our culture always one! Big strong culture! Hulk Smash!
 
2017-11-05 11:17:53 AM  

puckrock2000: chawco:
I did really enjoy the episode where they had the big Morel play and lost. One of the things I never really liked about Star Trek as much is how their culture always one, always was best.

GIS for "big morel play":
[img.fark.net image 850x478]

/I'm assuming an autocorrect fail
//at least, I hope so
///yes, our culture always one! Big strong culture! Hulk Smash!


Oh oh man, do I have a script for those guys!
 
2017-11-05 01:16:39 PM  

Confabulat: AurizenDarkstar: But I've seen bits & pieces of 4 episodes, and can personally say I find nothing redeeming about the show at all

This is how you can tell a fine reviewer. One we should all take seriously.


Aww, did I upset you?

I know, I know...stop not liking what you like.  You'll get over it.
 
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