Hotdog
Alternative energy will happen.

It already is happening, and has been for decades.

I meant on a scale that has meaning. Some wind and solar farms in Humboldt County, California don't mean much in the big scheme of things. Let's talk about alternative energy when you can light something more than a 40 watt bulb and a toaster. Like New York City.

Cold fusion is a myth.

Thanks for finally clearing that up!!

Hybrids are merely a muse.

A muse?

Yea, you know, a muse. A fancy. Not a real answer.

At some point, their market impact will be large enough to get the attention of big oil companies. Then you will see investment, growth market share blah blah blah

We'll see investment AND growth market share blah blah blah? How exciting, but what does it all mean? Seriously, what does that mean?

When there is enough money to be made, investment will follow. The penetration of Hybrid vehicles into the world market means diddly squat right now.

and big oil companies will once again remain at the top of the food chain, controlling the major chemical supplies needed to create hybrid cells etc.

Two things:
1. Hybrids don't have cells. They have two engines and a battery. Unless you're referring to the battery as a cell.
2. Who cares if the big bad oil companies are making money from Hybrid technology? If the air is 80% cleaner, I don't care who's getting rich from it.

Beyond Hybrid, is Hydrogen. And you should care who's getting rich off of it. Don't you like to know who's sckrewing you?

If you're going to be paranoid and reactionary, at least know what you're talking about, and try to make some sense.

This is FARK. You must be kidding.

dogfather_jr -

"Except for one thing: they will likely be smart enough to equate the drop in demand with a shifting of the trend. Companies that chase falling sales with higher prices tend not to last very long."

Correct. Unfortunately OPEC is a cartel that controls the majority of the supply, so they can get away with it / last longer than in the normal scenario.

I do believe that they will go the way of the dinosaur eventually though. I mean.. the oil WILL dry up at some point, and then they're out of business. How they get there is up to them, but they're surely not going to go broke doing it. They'll try to get as much money out of it as they can.

"Short term, anything that even begins to hint at reducing our dependence on fossil fuels is a step in the right direction."

It is, and that's why i was saying that i did not think that more fuel efficient cars are bad. I was just trying to comment on the people who bring 'm up as if they are the solution to the problem.

As for the solution: It will require a lot of things. Simply different "fuels" do nothing LONG long term. I think a change in how we live would be more appropriate. I think it could very well be that it'll result "naturally". Just like we grew to be dependent on transportation, we'll learn new ways of living where we are less dependent on it. Maybe go back to smaller, largely self-sufficient communities. Maybe we'll find a life-work balance where travel is less important / prominent (ie work from/at home more). New technologies might be catalysts to these changes, such as practical technologies that would allow you to be at work without physically being at work. I'm just thinking out loud here. It's just funny how many people, when talking about this problem and a possible solution, only seem to think one step ahead: "How can i replace the current thing that causes the problem with something else?" and not realize that they're not solving the situation that caused the thing to become a problem.

Ah shoot, there i go again making sense and all. Uhm...

All Arabs are in this together with the rich upper 1% of our society. They're milking us for all we're worth. Bush is the ring leader.

There...

We must protect the oil supply from terrorist attacks by Roving packs of Feral Tards!



Remember these faces, my friends. They hate our freedom and they crave our oil (to drink, for some daft reason).

2004-06-02 01:49:10 PM FormlessOne
It's nearly impossible to buy a home without being able to insure the mortgage.
-----------------------------------
To clarify: There are two types of insurance, one is mandatory and the other isn't.

Homeowner's/hazard insurance (protects the building/your liability, etc.) is mandatory if you are taking out a mortgage. The lender gets paid first if the house burns down.

Title insurance insures your title to the property. It covers something intangible and many people have biatched about it. If there is any question as to who owns the property, among other things, the bank's mortgage is covered. When taking out a first mortgage, most of the bank's require it. You can also buy title insurance to protect YOUR equity in the property, i.e. an Owner's Policy which would protect you for the above, in addition to covering you for prior unpaid taxes (posting errors on the part of the municipality, etc.) among other "intangible" things. Either way, the title insurance premium only gets paid ONCE, however, every time you refinance, you have to get a new mortgage policy, but you do get a break on the premium.

/real estate paralegal that HATES her job today/

slykens1:
Thanks for the correction. Per Capita did seem a bit too low. But I spent way more time on the post than most online would appreciate, so I cut short my efforts to find a more accurate number.

Speaking of Saudi Arabias wide open pipes:



THESE PIPES . . . . . Are CLEAN!!!

So needs a p-shop contest

I do believe that they will go the way of the dinosaur eventually though. I mean.. the oil WILL dry up at some point

Yes there is a finite amount. What most people think is "we've used up most of it already, there can only be 100 or less years of it left". What most people don't know is "there's a hell of a lot more than you think, and there's well more than 100 years of oil left, even will increase in demand and population growth"

Yes, it will run out, but not in our lifetimes, and probably not in our childrens' lifetimes.

Hotdog
I meant on a scale that has meaning. Some wind and solar farms in Humboldt County, California don't mean much in the big scheme of things. Let's talk about alternative energy when you can light something more than a 40 watt bulb and a toaster. Like New York City.

How does alternative energy become a reality? It seems that a lot of people want a complete solution in place overnight. Every wind farm or tidal generator or solar collector helps.

Yea, you know, a muse. A fancy. Not a real answer.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

When there is enough money to be made, investment will follow. The penetration of Hybrid vehicles into the world market means diddly squat right now.

What is your point here, exactly?

Beyond Hybrid, is Hydrogen. And you should care who's getting rich off of it. Don't you like to know who's sckrewing you?

You're apparently some sort of delusional anti-big business type. Just because companies make money doesn't mean I'm getting screwed. I'm clever enough to understand that.

If you're going to be paranoid and reactionary, at least know what you're talking about, and try to make some sense.
This is FARK. You must be kidding.

Touch.

you_are_wrong -

I do not know about that, nor do i particularly care. On a large scale / high level the difference between the two matters little. In either case, it's a dead end. I see all this as just "noise" that will remain while "we" figure out new ways of dealing with the problems we're facing. These things will happen when the time is right. It's a natural result really.

I would just love to know why the conversation changed from being on-topic to a war over whether or not some moron that wants an H2 should get it?
I mean really what does that matter? I aplaud them and their H2 and Suburbans and such. Guzzle that gas. When the reserves have run out.. I promise not to bleed from the eyes with laughter as you get to walk everywhere for your short-sightedness.
But, even that is not the point. The point here is do you really think that OPEC would do this for an altruistic reason? No. They will only lower oil prices for one reason... get us fat, dumb, and lazy. This is the same thing that happened during "the Great Oil Shortage". there was no oil from anywhere and prices sky-rocketed. Then after they leveled off just a little... there was plenty. Don't forget. They are Capitalists too.

Even if oil was abundant 'forever', it's a moral imperative for the U.S. to use its technological advantage to obviate the stranglehold OPEC has on energy pricing, and its subsequent weight in world politics.

Uberdeity:
[Guzzle that gas. When the reserves have run out.. I promise not to bleed from the eyes with laughter as you get to walk everywhere for your short-sightedness]

Won't you also be walking everywhere?

KungFuHamster
It's just funny how many people, when talking about this problem and a possible solution, only seem to think one step ahead: "How can i replace the current thing that causes the problem with something else?" and not realize that they're not solving the situation that caused the thing to become a problem.

It's equally funny the number of people that seem to be of the mindset "Well, we can't fix everything all at once, so let's not even try."

But they're not nearly as funny as the people that offer fanciful solutions that are not based in any kind of fact or reality, though.

Just like we grew to be dependent on transportation, we'll learn new ways of living where we are less dependent on it. Maybe go back to smaller, largely self-sufficient communities. Maybe we'll find a life-work balance where travel is less important / prominent (ie work from/at home more). New technologies might be catalysts to these changes, such as practical technologies that would allow you to be at work without physically being at work. I'm just thinking out loud here.



"I wish we could all live in the mountains, at high altitude..."

Yippie!!!! The right wingers say that oil is forever!!!!
Let's ALL get an SUV!!!!

And gas masks and oxygen tanks. And beachfront property in Arkansas! And lots and lots and lots of sunblock lotion SPF-1,000,000.

In fact, no. I use a bike.

>=)

But the point was that we have gotten so off topic it is a wonder that anyone can even remember what the topic was.

I don't want to say anything about OPEC, but I feel the need to say Cabin Boy was a really bad movie.

/saw it in the theatre

dogfather_jr

How does alternative energy become a reality? It seems that a lot of people want a complete solution in place overnight. Every wind farm or tidal generator or solar collector helps.

tick-tock....tick-tock....

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

It's not important for you to know what I think it means. It's only important for me to know.

You're apparently some sort of delusional anti-big business type. Just because companies make money doesn't mean I'm getting screwed. I'm clever enough to understand that.

Anti big business? No, not really. I'm all for capitalism and profit and chase a buck as much as the next guy. I'm more of a cynical realist. If you think there is anyone else in the world that has your best interests in mind above their own, you're not very clever at all. Big Oil makes billions off of humankind, knowing full well that it is a short term answer. I see no philanthropy or dedication to improving the human condition take precedence over protection of the company bottom line and satisfaction of stock holders. I mean, even Bill Gates realized he could not possibly spend all that money on himself and gives much of it back to helping people. Name the last charity or entitlement that received funds from Exxon.

/don't thank me, I'm just Hotdog.

2004-06-02 02:45:40 PM Bildo

While it is heavily regulated, the U.S. banking system is still primarily market driven.

market driven... by interest rates set by the fed you mean


Mortgage rates are dictated solely by market forces. Banking operations (ie. expansion, lending, underwriting, and branch management) are dictated by the private banks, not the feds. They do have to conform to federal regulations, but that still leaves a lot of flexibility.

Sorry you missed the only factor that drives the markets which I mentioned above. So you support socialism in the banking system?

20 million people a day use the tokyo rail system. It works for them.

In case you were wondering where I got my facts on hybrids.
here they are

I refuse to be embroiled
In a thread that so well oiled
Some wines get better with year's age
Some whines get bitter with fear's rage
There's little meaning to this verse
I just had to write as I'm perverse.

/Cabin Boy was robbed of the Academy Award by jealous Hollywood insiders

Hotdog
Name the last charity or entitlement that received funds from Exxon.

Here's one.

Here's another.

Here's another.

Elapsed time: 1 Google minute.

"I'm honored to shake the hand of a brave Iraqi citizen who had his hand cut off by Saddam Hussein."

-- President Bush, meeting Iraqi amputees at the White House on May 25.

Pottymouth you farking moron. Your anti-Bush hatred has allowed you to selectively quote your rhetoric. What you FAILELD to mention, was that Iraqi in question had a new replacement hand fitted and given to him FREE OF CHARGE from some American surgeons. If you want to bash Bush, fine, but at least base it on something remotely associated with a fact you moron!

Hotdog:I mean, even Bill Gates realized he could not possibly spend all that money on himself and gives much of it back to helping people. Name the last charity or entitlement that received funds from Exxon.

You know they even stopped sponsoring Masterpiece Theatre

Exxon Mobil Corporation to End Sponsorship of Masterpiece Theatre in 2004

IRVING, Texas (December 13, 2002) -- Exxon Mobil Corporation today announced that the company is going to end its sponsorship of PBS' ExxonMobil Masterpiece Theatre. ExxonMobil will continue to provide sponsorship funding to Masterpiece Theatre for programs through 2004 and assist PBS in identifying a new sponsor for the highly acclaimed and longest-running prime-time drama series on television. ExxonMobil has served as the sole corporate sponsor of the popular Sunday night program since its 1971 debut and has provided funding for PBS programs totaling more than $250 million over the past 32 years, more than any other corporate benefactor of public television.

"We are proud of our longstanding association with the quality programming and outstanding production staff at WGBH and our long-term affiliation with public television," said Kenneth P. Cohen, ExxonMobil vice president of public affairs. "We will continue to fund Masterpiece Theatre programming through 2004 and assist WGBH and PBS in securing new sponsorship for the series."

http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Newsroom/Newsreleases/xom_nr_131202_2.asp

Uberdeity

In fact, no. I use a bike.

>=)

But the point was that we have gotten so off topic it is a wonder that anyone can even remember what the topic was.

It's about how George W. Bush claims that he's fighting a war on Tards, when he's done nothing but CREATE more Tards! Al Tarda must be stopped!

comslave
20 million people a day use the tokyo rail system. It works for them.
you need an extremely dense city to support a very effective rail system, like tokyo or NY. most cities now have so much suburban sprawling that subway/commuter rail systems are not feasible or convenient to commuters.

LincolnLogolas

Either you are a Neo-Con mocking Liberals....

Or you are a Liberal that would make me woe the fact that I am as well.

In either case I find that your comment has had no effect on my opinion in this matter.

DELETED!!!

Hotdog
Name the last charity or entitlement that received funds from Exxon.

Here's one.

Here's another.

Here's another.

Elapsed time: 1 Google minute.

Wow, impressive. Now fetch me a beer.

If by your googling you mean to say that a hospital here and a city park there is evidence enough of Exxon's largesse, feel free. It's looks good in the local papers and websites, anyway.

China's oil consumption is increase drastically. In fact, they are at US consumption levels now (in total ammount, not per-person yet). So we really shouldn't pattern our oil usage after them.

syberpud
While what you say is true (Half of China's oil consumption will depend on imports within four years) there is growth and usage to consider.

GDP -Real Growth Rate: China 8%; United States 2.4%. Population Growth: United States 0.92%; China 0.6%. Motor vehicles: United States 765 per 1000 people; China 10 per 1000 people.

It seems clear to me China needs oil to keep up with economic growth, while the US needs it so the number of drivers licenses equals the number of vehicles--a conceit which is uniquely American.

comslave
20 million people a day use the tokyo rail system. It works for them.

But you have to understand that the reasons why it works so well in Tokyo are the reasons it wouldn't work well in most Western cities? As an aside, more that 7 million people use NYC transit daily.

laxr15

not all japanese cities are as dense as Tokyo, and they have working rail systems. Beyond that, we could simply start changing the way we design cities. In portland, we have an urban growth boundary and we are focusing on residential developement inside the downtown area. an entire area of downtown is being rebuilt with streetcar service. This is not some future project, it is happening now in portland.

Uberdeity

Either you are a Neo-Con mocking Liberals....

Or you are a Liberal that would make me woe the fact that I am as well.

In either case I find that your comment has had no effect on my opinion in this matter.

Actually, I'm honestly just being an asshat. Wasn't it obvious to everyone else? You must be a member of Al Tarda, then! Someone hurry and call the Secret Cervix!

"...an entire area of downtown is being rebuilt with streetcar service. This is not some future project, it is happening now in portland."

And Canada's capital, Ottawa, is also installing trains - light rail, extending a newish suburban protocal all the way into our downtown. Can't wait for them to start actually building it - money just arrived and contract still wet.

The Fed sets interest rates!!! BUAAHAHAHAHA!!!

Actually, they don't. FOMC: Federal Reserve Open Market Committee. When they say that they are lowering interest rates, that means that on the OPEN MARKET they have decided to sell treasury securities, which in turn increases reserves and allows banks to lend more, which in turn makes banks want to loan more money, which in turn makes them want to lower interest rates. Funny how something that is supposedly socialist ends up being done using open markets.

I'd go out on a limb and say that central banking isn't a sign of a socialist society. Sure, it isn't laissez faire capitalism at work, but you'd be hard pressed to actually show that it redistributes wealth or places means of production in public hands. Hell, the Fed's board of governors isn't even elected, they are appointed.

Hey guys...I found this on CNN.com but last time I checked the link was down:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/06/02/3e9.sdf2.544/

Here is the text:

US Sources: President Bush Moonlighting as Concentration Camp Operator in Texas

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sources close to President Bush say that along with being the President of the United States, he started up his own concentration camp on the outskirts of Corpus Christie, Texas.

"The President has been torturing and killing innocent children, baby bunnies, and fluffy clouds with smily faces on them for the last four years," said FBI director Robert Mueller. "This is an obvious ploy to get rid of everything happy in the world, destroy the United States, and make millions and millions of dollars while doing so. "

U.S. officials asked some news organizations not to report the information because they feared it would harm the economy, until they realized that the whole purpose of the administration was to do that anyway. "OMG!!! We're making millions! We hate everything innocent and pure! LMAO!!!" said National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, who followed that statement with a sinister laugh.

When asked what the next step would be after the entire world's economy was in shambles, President Bush snickered, "Our entire administration will board our evil spaceship with the majority of the world's paper currency and babies and fly to Mars, where we will pour chloroform on the money and smother the babies with the money and then kick them until they die. MUHAHAHAHAHAHA."

Vice President Dick Cheney was questioned about the World Domination scam and was quoted by Reuters saying "Kids with terminal diseases are pussies." He also stated that minorities and gays will burn for eternity in hell. Then he reportedly left the conference hall and ran over a wheelchair-bound nun carrying an aborted fetus with his humm-vee.

If every car on the planet converted to hydrogen power, we'd still need crude oil. That thing you're typing on is an oil product. High school chemistry.

The US has not built a freaking new oil refinery in about 15 years!

I call shennanigans. It's spelled Corpus Christi.

Wow, the salaried writer mispelled "protocol" in her last post.

/"baah" for sheepish

In that case... Thank God!

dogfather_jr

Like i said, i was just thinking out loud. I don't pretend to have a solution, unlike many others here who fool themselves and / or others.

Most of the solutions here are of the "ban SUVs" and "let's all drive hybrids" variety. All that is is people formulating solutions that allow them to point to other people and pin the blame on them and put the burden of solving the problem on other people. They fail to realize though that once that "banning of SUVs" takes place, the problem hasn't gone away.

Granted, we SHOULD persue short and medium term solutions such as alternative energy sources. I'm all geeky about just reading the science theories behind all that stuff, so if nothing else, we should go after it just for the coolness factor. I mean, how cool would it be to have a car powered by your own portable sun?!

DROxINxTHExWIND

you're partly right, but your forgetting that the demand is higher now because there are MORE CARS ON THE ROAD due to more people and development of several countries, and more of those cars are getting 8-12 MPG. Demand is way up. We need to realize that our personal oil consumption will ruin businesses, trucking industries, the airline industry, shopping departments, and the list goes on, unless we become more responsible with Earth's gifts to us.

The only solution is to raise the taxes on gaz (It's too cheap in the USA and it will reflect the pollution cost of using gaz). People will adapt and find other method of transportation.

Galland
Using up the oil faster means alternative energy sources will be developed faster. I don't see a problem with this. Do you want a good chunk of mankind to live in smoggy cities for another century or two? I could care less if the oil runs out without any warning whatsoever. Horses and steam engines will do just fine.

Yeah but right now it takes alot of oil to develop alternative energy sources. It takes oil to make solar panels, to make windmills, etc...and the energy it takes to make these things, as of right now, is more than they put out.
It's not as easy as running out of oil and then just switching to something else

Does anyone else see the resemblance?

Hotdog
Wow, impressive. Now fetch me a beer.

If I fetch you a beer, don't think you'll like where I'd put it.

If by your googling you mean to say that a hospital here and a city park there is evidence enough of Exxon's largesse, feel free. It's looks good in the local papers and websites, anyway.

You asked me to name the last charity that Exxon gave to. I named THREE, and it only took me a minute to find those.

It is evidence of Exxon's charitable giving. The fact that you think Exxon is somehow morally responsible to donate a larger amount than they do is irrelevant.

A note on oil refineries:

Many people of all political persuasions note the fact that a new oil refinery has not been built in the USA in about 30 years. Some say that this, along with refineries being forced to produce 24 varieties of gasoline, is part of the problem.

It is true that having 24 kinds of fuel does drive up the price the major reason that no new refineries have been opened in the USA in 30 years is that they are simply not profitable. If they aren't capable of producing profit then, obviously, the oil companies will find something better to do with their profits.