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(Wired)   Here it is, the self-digging digger. Next up, the self-shoveling snow shovel. Now, who doesn't want one of those?   ( wired.com) divider line
    More: Cool, autonomous skid-steer loader, Skid loader, San Francisco startup  
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2196 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Oct 2017 at 10:51 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



33 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-10-21 08:08:37 AM  
That thing looks like a dalek.  "EXCAVATE!"  "EXCAVATE!"
 
2017-10-21 10:55:26 AM  
Nono, dig UP, stupid!
 
2017-10-21 11:01:07 AM  
That thing TOTALLY won't get its guidance system bashed in by the union guys in the middle of the night.
I don't see that happening at all.
 
2017-10-21 11:16:02 AM  
assets.rebelcircus.com
 
2017-10-21 11:24:57 AM  
Elon Musk seen writing a check.
 
2017-10-21 11:26:26 AM  
Call me when they have self sealing stem bolts.
 
2017-10-21 11:33:15 AM  

ThatGuyOverThere: That thing TOTALLY won't get its guidance system bashed in by the union guys in the middle of the night.
I don't see that happening at all.


Correct. It will happen in broad daylight, with the press in attendance, so Trump will have another excuse to try and kill unions (and union members, but that is another story).
 
2017-10-21 11:42:59 AM  
memegenerator.net
 
2017-10-21 11:58:44 AM  
The Young Ones 'Nasty' 'Do you dig Graves'
Youtube 6T6GxEw5_I0
 
2017-10-21 11:59:46 AM  

ThatGuyOverThere: That thing TOTALLY won't get its guidance system bashed in by the union guys in the middle of the night.
I don't see that happening at all.


It ain't the 1970's anymore. There's just WAY too many cheap video cameras all over the place these days. Those little gadgets are also easy to hide or put out of reach. And they can see in the dark.

So, no, the only way to deal with the oncoming automation revolution is a radical rethinking of capitalism, including steps like guaranteeing a Universal Basic Income for all citizens.

Such a thing is absolutely unthinkable in today's political climate. About all we can do now is hope Trump's asinine shenanigans eventually causes a massive (peaceful) political revolution where nearly all the sociopaths actually get voted out of office nationwide.

And of that, I'm not terribly hopeful.
 
2017-10-21 12:01:51 PM  
ih1.redbubble.net
 
2017-10-21 12:12:51 PM  
DNRTFA but I hope such a system requires a human to at least keep an eye on it.

Not that a human will prevent problems.  Back in 83 I lived in a development where all wiring was underground.  Power, phone, cable.  Some contractor was using a ditch witch to cut a new trench and he cut every single cable behind about 50 houses before we stopped him...and stopping him required us standing in front of his machine because he didn't understand 15 people yelling and waiving their arms is indicative of a problem.

/That was in Westmont, IL
 
2017-10-21 12:40:51 PM  
Reminds me of the large autonomous farming equipment that've been around for awhile.  With a bored guy sitting in it likely playing farmville on his smartphone.  Much simpler though when there are no trees, obstacles, underground cables/pipes and flat farmland to work with.
 
2017-10-21 12:46:53 PM  
"only its lasers are designed for high-shock"

Yeah, they need to be.  Not just for the terrain bumps but for the jerky-ass, rev-to-full-stop controls they're doing on the hydraulics.  Guarantee that a *good* human operator wouldn't be banging the bucket and lift cylinders against the stops like that.

WTF, guys?  Bobcat built the thing with proportional valves for a reason.  Use them proportionally!

/industrial automation guy
//has programmed an endurance  test machine to lift up 40 ft and gently set back on the ground a basket with up to 90k pounds of weight in it.
 
2017-10-21 01:54:01 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: DNRTFA but I hope such a system requires a human to at least keep an eye on it.

Not that a human will prevent problems.  Back in 83 I lived in a development where all wiring was underground.  Power, phone, cable.  Some contractor was using a ditch witch to cut a new trench and he cut every single cable behind about 50 houses before we stopped him...and stopping him required us standing in front of his machine because he didn't understand 15 people yelling and waiving their arms is indicative of a problem.

/That was in Westmont, IL


Most area require full location and marking of all utility lines now before you can even fire up anything that digs. That said it's not always perfect but considering the escalating liability and cost you can bet your ass anyone buying these things isn't just going to turn them loose without checking for underground utilities and actively watching them when they approach them.

In 83 you could do some minor damage and inconvenience by cutting a utility but today you have buried fiber optic cables running all over the place. You cut one of those and you aren't talking a couple thousand dollar fix, your talking a couple hundred thousand dollar fix.
 
2017-10-21 02:14:36 PM  

SansNeural: "only its lasers are designed for high-shock"

Yeah, they need to be.  Not just for the terrain bumps but for the jerky-ass, rev-to-full-stop controls they're doing on the hydraulics.  Guarantee that a *good* human operator wouldn't be banging the bucket and lift cylinders against the stops like that.

WTF, guys?  Bobcat built the thing with proportional valves for a reason.  Use them proportionally!

/industrial automation guy
//has programmed an endurance  test machine to lift up 40 ft and gently set back on the ground a basket with up to 90k pounds of weight in it.


Their biggest mistake was in the design phase - It doesn't look like any of their cylinders have tempo rods.  They tried to do it on the cheap using open-loop control.

Also, mobile hydraulics are cheap-ass shiat compared to what you are used to in the industrial world. They are much lower bandwidth, so it's way more difficult to do a snappy decel into a target position.  You can either have positional accuracy or smooth motion.  Pick one.  Combined with really crappy thermal drift behavior - they are just not ideal for motion control at all.

/ Big Iron motion control internet high-five!
// My record is 1.4M lbs lifting sections of the SF bay bridge skyway off of barges
 
2017-10-21 03:03:19 PM  

IoSaturnalia: SansNeural: "only its lasers are designed for high-shock"

Yeah, they need to be.  Not just for the terrain bumps but for the jerky-ass, rev-to-full-stop controls they're doing on the hydraulics.  Guarantee that a *good* human operator wouldn't be banging the bucket and lift cylinders against the stops like that.

WTF, guys?  Bobcat built the thing with proportional valves for a reason.  Use them proportionally!

/industrial automation guy
//has programmed an endurance  test machine to lift up 40 ft and gently set back on the ground a basket with up to 90k pounds of weight in it.

Their biggest mistake was in the design phase - It doesn't look like any of their cylinders have tempo rods.  They tried to do it on the cheap using open-loop control.

Also, mobile hydraulics are cheap-ass shiat compared to what you are used to in the industrial world. They are much lower bandwidth, so it's way more difficult to do a snappy decel into a target position.  You can either have positional accuracy or smooth motion.  Pick one.  Combined with really crappy thermal drift behavior - they are just not ideal for motion control at all.

/ Big Iron motion control internet high-five!
// My record is 1.4M lbs lifting sections of the SF bay bridge skyway off of barges


Stepper motors are awesome, aren't they?
 
2017-10-21 03:09:14 PM  
The world no longer needs ditch diggers.
 
2017-10-21 03:20:59 PM  

ArthurVandelay: Call me when they have self sealing stem bolts.


http://www.irbnet.de/daten/iconda/CIB​_​DC23748.pdf
 
2017-10-21 03:41:50 PM  

IoSaturnalia: SansNeural: "only its lasers are designed for high-shock"

Yeah, they need to be.  Not just for the terrain bumps but for the jerky-ass, rev-to-full-stop controls they're doing on the hydraulics.  Guarantee that a *good* human operator wouldn't be banging the bucket and lift cylinders against the stops like that.

WTF, guys?  Bobcat built the thing with proportional valves for a reason.  Use them proportionally!

/industrial automation guy
//has programmed an endurance  test machine to lift up 40 ft and gently set back on the ground a basket with up to 90k pounds of weight in it.

Their biggest mistake was in the design phase - It doesn't look like any of their cylinders have tempo rods.  They tried to do it on the cheap using open-loop control.

Also, mobile hydraulics are cheap-ass shiat compared to what you are used to in the industrial world. They are much lower bandwidth, so it's way more difficult to do a snappy decel into a target position.  You can either have positional accuracy or smooth motion.  Pick one.  Combined with really crappy thermal drift behavior - they are just not ideal for motion control at all.

/ Big Iron motion control internet high-five!
// My record is 1.4M lbs lifting sections of the SF bay bridge skyway off of barges


Honestly I don't know what they put in Bobcat loaders these days - maybe it's just manual valves.  I worked on a machine to test Commercial Intertech's then (15+ years ago) new "Digitrak" digitally controlled proportional valves.  They had a black box controller that operated a stepper that positioned the valve spool with feedback, based an external control voltage.  The intent was to replace old-style, manual (lever) valves to be controlled fly-by-wire; a "drop in" design upgrade.

If by "tempo" you mean the TempoSonic brand or functional equivalent in-cylinder feedback... I used those when they were new; basically made a $250 cylinder cost $2000 :(  but the feedback was awesome (high speed and accurate)!

My understanding is the cost for cylinders with integrated position feedback are a lot more affordable these days.  No reason for these guys to have low-balled that part when they're already blowing huge bucks on the laser shiat.
 
2017-10-21 03:53:34 PM  

FrancoFile: IoSaturnalia:

Stepper motors are awesome, aren't they?


I wouldn't know.  I don't even get out of bed for anything less than 50 Hp.  ;-)
 
2017-10-21 03:57:17 PM  

SansNeural: If by "tempo" you mean the TempoSonic brand or functional equivalent in-cylinder feedback... I used those when they were new; basically made a $250 cylinder cost $2000 :( but the feedback was awesome (high speed and accurate)!

My understanding is the cost for cylinders with integrated position feedback are a lot more affordable these days


Yes.  It's like facial tissues or xerographic duplication - who the fark wants to say or write "magnetostrictive transducer" all the gd time?  And yes, since MTS' patent ran out, there are lots of players in a very competitive market.  Price has come way down.
 
2017-10-21 04:05:49 PM  
Bobcat is a brand name. Skid-steer is the type of machine.
So an autonomous skid-steer can dig a rectangular hole in soft dirt. Call me when there's rocks and concrete in the way, and it calls for another crew with a trackhoe after it's destroyed itself trying to reach axis c. Or the hole needs perpendicular sides so it cant drive out on a ramp.
Yes, I know development is incremental. But it's going to be a long time until construction is fully automated, the narrator is wrong, construction sites aren't a closed environment.
 
2017-10-21 04:30:19 PM  

IoSaturnalia: SansNeural: "only its lasers are designed for high-shock"

Yeah, they need to be.  Not just for the terrain bumps but for the jerky-ass, rev-to-full-stop controls they're doing on the hydraulics.  Guarantee that a *good* human operator wouldn't be banging the bucket and lift cylinders against the stops like that.

WTF, guys?  Bobcat built the thing with proportional valves for a reason.  Use them proportionally!

/industrial automation guy
//has programmed an endurance  test machine to lift up 40 ft and gently set back on the ground a basket with up to 90k pounds of weight in it.

Their biggest mistake was in the design phase - It doesn't look like any of their cylinders have tempo rods.  They tried to do it on the cheap using open-loop control.

Also, mobile hydraulics are cheap-ass shiat compared to what you are used to in the industrial world. They are much lower bandwidth, so it's way more difficult to do a snappy decel into a target position.  You can either have positional accuracy or smooth motion.  Pick one.  Combined with really crappy thermal drift behavior - they are just not ideal for motion control at all.

/ Big Iron motion control internet high-five!
// My record is 1.4M lbs lifting sections of the SF bay bridge skyway off of barges


Linear Postion Sensors in the cylinders.  More and more.
 
2017-10-21 04:46:17 PM  

SansNeural: "only its lasers are designed for high-shock"

Yeah, they need to be.  Not just for the terrain bumps but for the jerky-ass, rev-to-full-stop controls they're doing on the hydraulics.  Guarantee that a *good* human operator wouldn't be banging the bucket and lift cylinders against the stops like that.

WTF, guys?  Bobcat built the thing with proportional valves for a reason.  Use them proportionally!

/industrial automation guy
//has programmed an endurance  test machine to lift up 40 ft and gently set back on the ground a basket with up to 90k pounds of weight in it.



Meh, this demo is clearly proof-of-concept stuff.

They'll have the system giving the controls a more gentle touch well before well before it's ready for prime time.
 
2017-10-21 05:42:15 PM  

WelldeadLink: [memegenerator.net image 380x359]


I can digit.
 
2017-10-21 06:34:45 PM  
Will it stop if it stumbles upon human remains, fossils, or gold pieces?

Asking for a friend.
 
2017-10-21 06:34:53 PM  
Does it run the Quarry mod?
 
2017-10-21 09:15:54 PM  
sustainabilityatspu.files.wordpress.com
 
2017-10-21 09:16:43 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2017-10-21 09:41:18 PM  

HawkEyes: The world no longer needs ditch diggers.


img.fark.net
 
2017-10-22 09:31:59 AM  
I just want one that will shovel my snow in the winter and cut my lawn in the summer.  Is that too much to ask?
 
2017-10-22 10:14:22 PM  

Kegovitch: I just want one that will shovel my snow in the winter and cut my lawn in the summer.  Is that too much to ask?


You can have one in about ten years, but it's all maintenance until then.
 
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