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(Washington Post)   Soon our long national nightmare will come to an end as the Senate votes to finally give rich people a break   ( washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Democratic Party, tax cuts, United States Senate, Tax, Mitch McConnell, Taxation in the United States, budget, Taxation  
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1288 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Oct 2017 at 3:15 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-10-19 11:46:56 PM  
"The White House and House Republicans had vowed that the tax cuts would be offset with new revenue from the elimination of certain deductions, but that is no longer the GOP's goal. Instead, they have abandoned longstanding party orthodoxy of deficit reduction."

If by "longstanding orthodoxy" you mean "talking point when a Democrat has the White House."
 
2017-10-20 12:08:39 AM  

nmrsnr: "The White House and House Republicans had vowed that the tax cuts would be offset with new revenue from the elimination of certain deductions, but that is no longer the GOP's goal. Instead, they have abandoned longstanding party orthodoxy of deficit reduction."

If by "longstanding orthodoxy" you mean "talking point when a Democrat has the White House."


Came here to say essentially this. They don't actually give a shiat about deficits and they haven't for a very long time.
 
2017-10-20 12:18:35 AM  

fusillade762: nmrsnr: "The White House and House Republicans had vowed that the tax cuts would be offset with new revenue from the elimination of certain deductions, but that is no longer the GOP's goal. Instead, they have abandoned longstanding party orthodoxy of deficit reduction."

If by "longstanding orthodoxy" you mean "talking point when a Democrat has the White House."

Came here to say essentially this. They don't actually give a shiat about deficits and they haven't for a very long time.


And why should they? In case you haven't noticed, the US Gov't has no intention on ever paying down the Nat'l Debt. And as far as Gov't Budget Deficits? They've already been working hard at burning Education, Social Security and Health Care to the ground to make sure they can pay for the troops and bombs they need to keep the rest of the World in check

Besides, once WWIII starts, it will be full tilt boogie on Arms Manufacturing, and you and yours will be too busy dying while they reap the profits for them to care about how you'll vote since wars typically always ensure a 2nd term. Hell, Trump might even get Congress to redact the 2 term limit or suspend Elections all together

Democracy is not looking like it has much more longer to live in the US or Western World
 
2017-10-20 12:21:23 AM  
You're such a tease, subby.

/F*ck Donald Trump
//FFS, just typing that name is nauseating at this point
 
2017-10-20 02:07:34 AM  
Senate narrowly passes 2018 budget, paving way for tax reform

The resolution also proposes $473 billion in cuts to Medicare's baseline spending over a decade and about $1 trillion from Medicaid, though those provisions are not enforceable without additional legislation.

The final discretionary spending levels that will fund the government in 2018 will have to be negotiated between Congressional Republicans, Democrats and the White House ahead of a Dec. 8 deadline. Failure to reach an agreement or pass a stopgap measure by then would lead to a government shutdown.
 
2017-10-20 02:13:36 AM  
(head explodes)
 
2017-10-20 03:20:09 AM  
That this bullshiat might pass makes me want to drink even more.
 
2017-10-20 03:21:48 AM  

fusillade762: That this bullshiat might pass makes me want to drink even more.


Go ahead. We'll need the tax revenue.
 
2017-10-20 03:23:32 AM  
New Zealand is looking better and better every week.
 
2017-10-20 03:33:38 AM  
There might be a kernel of truth to subby's taunt - it's widely rumored that the passage of a tax cut would satisfy the major GOP backers and declare open season on Trump.  It's gross, but it's true
 
2017-10-20 03:37:45 AM  

nmrsnr: "The White House and House Republicans had vowed that the tax cuts would be offset with new revenue from the elimination of certain deductions, but that is no longer the GOP's goal. Instead, they have abandoned longstanding party orthodoxy of deficit reduction."

If by "longstanding orthodoxy" you mean "talking point when a Democrat has the White House."


Came to say this.  Like being strong on national defense and family values, this is one of the "Big Lies" perpetrated upon the US public.  Conservatives have claimed so strongly, so often, and for so long that they are the party of fiscal responsibility that tens of millions of people believe it, despite never having been true or even remotely supported by any actual evidence.
 
2017-10-20 03:42:32 AM  
I'm poor now and I'll be poor whether they pass this bill or not.
That being said, fark the GOP.
 
2017-10-20 03:42:36 AM  

nmrsnr: "The White House and House Republicans had vowed that the tax cuts would be offset with new revenue from the elimination of certain deductions, but that is no longer the GOP's goal. Instead, they have abandoned longstanding party orthodoxy of deficit reduction."

If by "longstanding orthodoxy" you mean "talking point when a Democrat has the White House."


My exact thought when i read the article at work.

So, when this passes, the US is officially an oligarchy, right?
 
2017-10-20 03:54:13 AM  
As a nation, we deserve this.

We earned this.
 
2017-10-20 03:56:48 AM  

AquaTatanka: New Zealand is looking better and better every week.


I'm thinking Sweden or Denmark.   I would say that my wife and I should move to Toronto, but if we feel the need to leave, Toronto is just too close to the nuckfuttery of a shiatshow that the United States would be at that point.
 
2017-10-20 04:00:40 AM  
I wonder how many tax breaks for the rich and corporations are permanent and how many for the "middle class" and poor people are temporary.  Oh, and is there a special tax on the "poors" because they have TVs and refrigerators?
 
2017-10-20 04:00:57 AM  
I'm fine with this till 2018 if it stops the threat of an expensive government shutdown. It's a budget, not tax cuts.

I'll not be fine with this in 2018. And I would expect Dumbocrats and the alt Reich to run on this for the next year. This and inoranging the peach buffoon.
 
2017-10-20 04:01:56 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: I wonder how many tax breaks for the rich and corporations are permanent and how many for the "middle class" and poor people are temporary.  Oh, and is there a special tax on the "poors" because they have TVs and refrigerators?


I have neither of those but I assume that they'll take an extra dollar or 50 for America.
 
2017-10-20 04:05:15 AM  
This is great news! One of the biggest contributors to poverty in this nation is the lack of incentives to become rich. How many times have you heard people complain that there's no point in making more money if they'd just have to pay more taxes on that money? Ugh!

=Smidge=
 
2017-10-20 04:07:51 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: I wonder how many tax breaks for the rich and corporations are permanent and how many for the "middle class" and poor people are temporary.  Oh, and is there a special tax on the "poors" because they have TVs and refrigerators?


All the big tax breaks are temporary.  Apparently, there's a loophole in how these things work where, if you have a tax break automatically end after a decade, magically the trillions of dollars it adds to the debt don't count and you can push it through without fear of a filibuster.

recondite cetacean: I'm fine with this till 2018 if it stops the threat of an expensive government shutdown. It's a budget, not tax cuts.

I'll not be fine with this in 2018. And I would expect Dumbocrats and the alt Reich to run on this for the next year. This and inoranging the peach buffoon.


This budget is what will allow the tax cuts to pass with only 50 votes.  So...yes, tax cuts.
 
2017-10-20 04:09:53 AM  
If we scrap the wall, and Trump's infrastructure and military spending plans, this would only kick up the deficit by an even trillion.
 
2017-10-20 04:12:24 AM  
I paid thousands last year for the privilege of living in a great country.

I guess I won't owe anything this year. I'll just mail in all of the articles showing Cabinet grift, Trump spouting gibberish, and the NFL protests, and say "you still owe me back pay for this".
 
2017-10-20 04:12:45 AM  
Contest: Titles of History Books in 2050 describing today's critical malfunction of government. Don't be shy.
 
2017-10-20 04:13:08 AM  

rcain: fusillade762: nmrsnr: "The White House and House Republicans had vowed that the tax cuts would be offset with new revenue from the elimination of certain deductions, but that is no longer the GOP's goal. Instead, they have abandoned longstanding party orthodoxy of deficit reduction."

If by "longstanding orthodoxy" you mean "talking point when a Democrat has the White House."

Came here to say essentially this. They don't actually give a shiat about deficits and they haven't for a very long time.

And why should they? In case you haven't noticed, the US Gov't has no intention on ever paying down the Nat'l Debt. And as far as Gov't Budget Deficits? They've already been working hard at burning Education, Social Security and Health Care to the ground to make sure they can pay for the troops and bombs they need to keep the rest of the World in check

Besides, once WWIII starts, it will be full tilt boogie on Arms Manufacturing, and you and yours will be too busy dying while they reap the profits for them to care about how you'll vote since wars typically always ensure a 2nd term. Hell, Trump might even get Congress to redact the 2 term limit or suspend Elections all together

Democracy is not looking like it has much more longer to live in the US or Western World


In a world where China is "taking center stage" and we become increasingly unable to fulfill our basic commitments, I'm starting to question the basic foundations of both little d and big D democracy. Here seem to be the benefits:

1) Mob rule motivated by fear
2) Tyranny of the majority
3) Gross exaggeration of simple truths
4) General negligence
5) Civil asset forfeiture
6) Withered educational systems
7) Dramatically increased terrorism

The list just seems to grow. I don't know what to do. I'm not advocating against democracy, but clearly we have failed on a massive level. This is not one person's failure or one party's failure. It is societal failure spanning decades. I have managed to do well for myself, but the same is not true for all of us.

What's the real, actual solution in non-soundbite form, untainted by politics, unbesmirched by partisan hackery?
 
2017-10-20 04:18:16 AM  
Remember kids, rules and laws now mean nothing so long as you can afford to buy your own congresscritter. #eattherich
 
2017-10-20 04:18:54 AM  
Something tells me today is going to be a good day to buy $SPY. Let the Obama rally continue! Have to imagine the deficit should knock down the USD a peg or two, but that could well be overcome by the euphoria surrounding (what appears to be) government actually getting something accomplished.


The budget opens the door to expanding the federal deficit by $1.5 trillion over 10 years.

That's basically the cost of one Iraq war or a bank bailout right there. Good thing there is no conceivable need for that money for any reason at all over the next decade, what with all of the geopolitical certainty and strong economic growth and whatnot...
 
2017-10-20 04:21:02 AM  

JustToLetYouKnowFriend: As a nation, we deserve this.

We earned this.


He beats me because I'm bad. I deserve it when he hits me.
 
2017-10-20 04:22:10 AM  
Emposter

The tax cut fight is a lot less of a slam dunk, especially as is. The budget added to the defecit, and I don't see Trumps plan passing under budget reconciliation.

And if it does, it can't be Trumps plan.

And if it is, Tea Party nuts are up for replacement.

No matter what happens, the budget forecast is going to look terrible, and that spells doom for Establishment Rs. This year is a legislative throwaway. Next year is virtue signaling and then the voters own whatever happens in 2019.
 
2017-10-20 04:25:05 AM  
Let the trickling down begin!
 
2017-10-20 04:32:33 AM  

recondite cetacean: Emposter

The tax cut fight is a lot less of a slam dunk, especially as is. The budget added to the defecit, and I don't see Trumps plan passing under budget reconciliation.

And if it does, it can't be Trumps plan.

And if it is, Tea Party nuts are up for replacement.

No matter what happens, the budget forecast is going to look terrible, and that spells doom for Establishment Rs. This year is a legislative throwaway. Next year is virtue signaling and then the voters own whatever happens in 2019.


Here's hoping.
 
2017-10-20 04:34:10 AM  

casual disregard: The list just seems to grow. I don't know what to do. I'm not advocating against democracy, but clearly we have failed on a massive level. This is not one person's failure or one party's failure. It is societal failure spanning decades. I have managed to do well for myself, but the same is not true for all of us.


Blame the rise of humanism. It used to be that people as a whole were kept in check by the dogma of organised religion and adherence to centuries-old societal norms and customs. Now it is all about the cult of capitalist growth and hedonism. The reason that humans were able to accomplish such great things in the past was because they were able to work together in grand societies where the individual mattered not; look what the ancient Egyptians were able to do with just stone age tools. Give a hundred thousand men a decade working with the same goal in mind and they can build just about anything. Today, we don't have that same mindset; we worry about the feelings and needs of each individual and elevate their experience above the good of the whole. And, so, growth slowly ends. Why build a better future when you can spend the future's money on a more pleasurable today? We may well have already seen 'peak humanity' at least in terms of the numbers of human beings in the developed world and I imagine the same will happen in the developing world in the next few decades as well.

Does that mean the death of democracy? Probably not, but future civilisations will likely look back on our time with the same kind of disdain for our unabashed hedonist capitalism as we do the Victorians, and the democracy of the future will likely look quite different than what we have today.
 
2017-10-20 04:39:48 AM  

Shaggy_C: Blame the rise of humanism.


Normally, I like you, but in this instance you can f*ck right off.
 
2017-10-20 04:41:45 AM  
In case it got lost, if we give Trump a budget, he can't go back to the government shutdown nonsense and get his base frothy. A terrible budget for a year or two is worth that. He can't bring up a shutdown on taxes then.

I think that's the short version of the Stockholm Voter. If he only beats me twice this week its a good week.
 
2017-10-20 04:47:57 AM  

grumpfuff: Shaggy_C: Blame the rise of humanism.

Normally, I like you, but in this instance you can f*ck right off.


What is good for the individual isn't always the best for society (and the planet, for that matter) as a whole. You can't decry the latter without at least acknowledging the former. Personally, I think the rise of basic human rights trumps the advancement of 'society' (whatever that may mean) but that's my personal opinion.
 
2017-10-20 04:57:09 AM  

Shaggy_C: grumpfuff: Shaggy_C: Blame the rise of humanism.

Normally, I like you, but in this instance you can f*ck right off.

What is good for the individual isn't always the best for society (and the planet, for that matter) as a whole. You can't decry the latter without at least acknowledging the former. Personally, I think the rise of basic human rights trumps the advancement of 'society' (whatever that may mean) but that's my personal opinion.


 And yet you blame those responsible for that rise for the religious right throwing a temper tantrum.

Were the humanists all wearing short skirts or something?
 
2017-10-20 05:18:54 AM  

grumpfuff: And yet you blame those responsible for that rise for the religious right throwing a temper tantrum.


I think we're talking past each other here. I am point to a slowdown in growth and increase in poor governance (particularly this 'spend now and pass the debt to the future') as a relatively modern phenomenon which has grown with the increased focus on the individual, particularly starting in the latter half of the 20th century. I put this under the umbrella of humanism but I certainly include the 'Religious Right' within the societal critique that I am making. Interestingly enough, it is actually the countries that are the least religious (Norway is a great example) that actually are bucking the trend and have made the successful trade-off between short-term growth and long-term vision.
 
2017-10-20 05:40:28 AM  

Sid_6.7: You're such a tease, subby.

/F*ck Donald Trump
//FFS, just typing that name is nauseating at this point


Try typing "President" in front of it. It's like ipecac.
 
2017-10-20 05:53:26 AM  
Oh, good, I was really worried about that.  I'd say more, but I'm sorting through the clearance section at my local grocery store, looking for marked-down food that isn't too likely to kill me.  The threat of botulism really makes your day so much more exciting!
 
2017-10-20 06:20:52 AM  

casual disregard: What's the real, actual solution in non-soundbite form, untainted by politics, unbesmirched by partisan hackery?


Computational singularity arrives delivering AI capable of benevolently governing us.
 
2017-10-20 06:30:09 AM  

casual disregard: I'm starting to question the basic foundations of both little d and big D democracy.


If we were a democracy the democrats would control at least the senate and the white house, not to mention have appointed a majority of the supreme court justices and America wouldn't be a country in decline. 

It's anti-democratic institutions such the electoral college mean to protect the minority from pure democracy abused to the point of establishing a tyranny of the minority that are killing America right now.

The ironic thing is that the very poorly informed passions of the mob that the Founders were trying to protect us from with things like the Electoral College are catapulting the poorly informed passions of the mob into power.
 
2017-10-20 06:42:58 AM  

Shaggy_C: grumpfuff: Shaggy_C: Blame the rise of humanism.

Normally, I like you, but in this instance you can f*ck right off.

What is good for the individual isn't always the best for society (and the planet, for that matter) as a whole. You can't decry the latter without at least acknowledging the former. Personally, I think the rise of basic human rights trumps the advancement of 'society' (whatever that may mean) but that's my personal opinion.


The people doing all the damage are psychotically religious, the humanists want to run a decent society for all you muppet.
 
2017-10-20 06:44:28 AM  

Blathering Idjut: The ironic thing is that the very poorly informed passions of the mob that the Founders were trying to protect us from with things like the Electoral College are catapulting the poorly informed passions of the mob into power.


The electoral college and the senate were designed to protect the rural south. They are doing their job all too well.

/It's gerrymandering that is the slap in the face to the founders.
//Gerrymandering and universal suffrage
///And an almost fanatical devotion to the pope
 
2017-10-20 06:47:05 AM  

Blathering Idjut: It's anti-democratic institutions such the electoral college mean to protect the minority from pure democracy abused to the point of establishing a tyranny of the minority that are killing America right now.


Actually I would argue that the move to make the electoral college more democratic (in that it represents the will of the voters of the state) is the problem, not the fact that it exists in the first place. If you put back the rules where people vote for local electors for the congressional district and not for president perhaps you then lose the power of national money in campaigns and see more positive outcomes.
 
2017-10-20 06:52:37 AM  

recondite cetacean: I'm fine with this till 2018 if it stops the threat of an expensive government shutdown. It's a budget, not tax cuts.

I'll not be fine with this in 2018. And I would expect Dumbocrats and the alt Reich to run on this for the next year. This and inoranging the peach buffoon.


This is step one in passing the tax cuts via reconciliation.
 
2017-10-20 06:58:47 AM  

gaspode: The people doing all the damage are psychotically religious, the humanists want to run a decent society for all you muppet.


Call it what you want. Those who bow before the human creations like Exxon, America, and The Market do  as much (if not more) damage to the planet as those who believed human creations like Quetzalcoatl and Amon-Ra controlled the universe. Decent society for all only lasts as long as the resources themselves, and then we revert to apes with weapons.
 
2017-10-20 07:05:12 AM  

fusillade762: nmrsnr: "The White House and House Republicans had vowed that the tax cuts would be offset with new revenue from the elimination of certain deductions, but that is no longer the GOP's goal. Instead, they have abandoned longstanding party orthodoxy of deficit reduction."

If by "longstanding orthodoxy" you mean "talking point when a Democrat has the White House."

Came here to say essentially this. They don't actually give a shiat about deficits and they haven't for a very long time.


Didn't Reagan prove deficits don't matter?
 
2017-10-20 07:06:48 AM  

Shaggy_C: grumpfuff: And yet you blame those responsible for that rise for the religious right throwing a temper tantrum.

I think we're talking past each other here. I am point to a slowdown in growth and increase in poor governance (particularly this 'spend now and pass the debt to the future') as a relatively modern phenomenon which has grown with the increased focus on the individual, particularly starting in the latter half of the 20th century. I put this under the umbrella of humanism but I certainly include the 'Religious Right' within the societal critique that I am making. Interestingly enough, it is actually the countries that are the least religious (Norway is a great example) that actually are bucking the trend and have made the successful trade-off between short-term growth and long-term vision.


So if you redefine humanism to mean the opposite of what it means, then your critique makes sense. And btw, the Eqyptians had metal tools when they built the pyramids. And the reason they coukd unite as a society to build a crypt for one person is that no one else got one. Their shared goal was to venerate one person, not to make a better future.
 
2017-10-20 07:13:38 AM  

Shaggy_C: gaspode: The people doing all the damage are psychotically religious, the humanists want to run a decent society for all you muppet.

Call it what you want. Those who bow before the human creations like Exxon, America, and The Market do  as much (if not more) damage to the planet as those who believed human creations like Quetzalcoatl and Amon-Ra controlled the universe. Decent society for all only lasts as long as the resources themselves, and then we revert to apes with weapons.


You are doing this on purpose right? You know full well the people bowing to the creations are the SAME ONES bowing to their made up gods too, and that the ones who bow to neither are the humanists.
 
2017-10-20 07:26:42 AM  
We are so boned.
 
2017-10-20 07:32:52 AM  

orangehat: I'm poor now and I'll be poor whether they pass this bill or not.
That being said, fark the GOP.


Yes, but on the "how much does it suck being poor" scale, it's going to get a lot worse for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people.  On the "how awesome is it being extremely wealthy" scale it's going to get slightly better for a few thousand people.
 
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