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(Bloomberg)   Turkey joins with Russia, Syria and Iran against U.S. backed forces. Did I mention that Turkey is a member of NATO? Well, they used to be   ( bloomberg.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Syria, special forces, Turkey, Syrian leader Bashar, counterpart Vladimir Putin, Syria conflict, subsequent political crackdown., U.S. military involvement  
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6940 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Oct 2017 at 1:53 AM (8 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-10-12 11:10:30 PM  
We got a card to play, too

Perhaps the time has come for official US support for the Kurds in Turkey
 
2017-10-12 11:17:23 PM  

cman: We got a card to play, too

Perhaps the time has come for official US support for the Kurds in Turkey


That's why they are doing it. We already did.
 
2017-10-12 11:19:37 PM  

GardenWeasel: cman: We got a card to play, too

Perhaps the time has come for official US support for the Kurds in Turkey

That's why they are doing it. We already did.


Not in Turkey

We been holding off on that cuz Turkey is NATO
 
2017-10-12 11:53:11 PM  
I guess Russia has forgiven them for shooting down that plane.
 
2017-10-13 12:10:45 AM  
As God is my witness, I thought Turkey was allied.
 
2017-10-13 12:22:13 AM  

cman: GardenWeasel: cman: We got a card to play, too

Perhaps the time has come for official US support for the Kurds in Turkey

That's why they are doing it. We already did.

Not in Turkey

We been holding off on that cuz Turkey is NATO


Yes, but the Kurds are planning to form their own country, and Turkey really doesn't like the idea. Supporting the Kurds anywhere has a way of making the Turks scream "no whey!"
 
2017-10-13 01:14:59 AM  

Sid_6.7: cman: GardenWeasel: cman: We got a card to play, too

Perhaps the time has come for official US support for the Kurds in Turkey

That's why they are doing it. We already did.

Not in Turkey

We been holding off on that cuz Turkey is NATO

Yes, but the Kurds are planning to form their own country, and Turkey really doesn't like the idea. Supporting the Kurds anywhere has a way of making the Turks scream "no whey!"


Cheesey.
 
2017-10-13 01:59:58 AM  
Gee, that invasion of Iraq sure worked out swell, didn't it?
 
2017-10-13 02:03:30 AM  

Ivo Shandor: As God is my witness, I thought Turkey was allied.


It was before Erdogan's Russian-engineered coup.
 
2017-10-13 02:10:32 AM  
I think all those other countries, including Turkey, are waking up and realizing the US won't be there permanently. What happens when the US leaves? So they are all making moves to be ready to claim their slice of the pie when the time comes. If I was the Kurds I'd start looking around to see who else I could partner with because I wouldn't trust the US to be there when the shiat hits the fan.
 
2017-10-13 02:11:47 AM  
Speaking of Turkey, there's also this in the Washington Post.

At the center of the increasingly bitter dispute between the United States and Turkey is a demand by an irate President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that American prosecutors free a Turkish-Iranian gold dealer who is about to go on trial on money-laundering and fraud charges. [...]

Erdogan's campaign to free Zarrab has been extraordinary. He demanded his release as well as the firing of Bharara in a private meeting with then-Vice President Joe Biden on Sept. 21, 2016, in which U.S. officials say half the 90-minute conversation was devoted to Zarrab. [...]

Erdogan's government began cultivating Donald Trump's team before the election. Michael Flynn, then a campaign aide, was hired as a pro-Turkey lobbyist, and his firm continued to receive Turkish money during the transition. After Flynn resigned as national security adviser in February, the Turks began working with Rudy Giuliani, a close Trump adviser. [...]
 
2017-10-13 02:12:03 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Gee, that invasion of Iraq sure worked out swell, didn't it?


The invasion actually went pretty well, actually.

It was the occupation that we farked up.
 
2017-10-13 02:17:55 AM  
ring.cdandlp.com
 
2017-10-13 02:34:40 AM  
pfft..  declare thanksgiving in the area.. all Turkey will soon be toast(ed)
 
2017-10-13 02:52:05 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-10-13 03:09:37 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Speaking of Turkey, there's also this in the Washington Post.

At the center of the increasingly bitter dispute between the United States and Turkey is a demand by an irate President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that American prosecutors free a Turkish-Iranian gold dealer who is about to go on trial on money-laundering and fraud charges. [...]

Erdogan's campaign to free Zarrab has been extraordinary. He demanded his release as well as the firing of Bharara in a private meeting with then-Vice President Joe Biden on Sept. 21, 2016, in which U.S. officials say half the 90-minute conversation was devoted to Zarrab. [...]

Erdogan's government began cultivating Donald Trump's team before the election. Michael Flynn, then a campaign aide, was hired as a pro-Turkey lobbyist, and his firm continued to receive Turkish money during the transition. After Flynn resigned as national security adviser in February, the Turks began working with Rudy Giuliani, a close Trump adviser. [...]


So, thinks are terrible for US-Turkish relations, but things are just fine for Trump, Edrogan, and Putin... cozy really.

Just like to take the time at this moment to remind all the Trump supporters in here that you are indeed traitors.  Unless you're Russian, then you're patriots I guess.
 
2017-10-13 03:49:51 AM  
pics.me.me
 
2017-10-13 04:01:11 AM  
Go ahead and be as butthurt about it as you want, you don't get to destroy Syria.
 
2017-10-13 04:30:08 AM  
fusillade762: I guess Russia has forgiven them for shooting down that plane.

we're still waiting for a single person in russia to be prosecuted for their murder of 298 innocent civlians of MH17.

i'm still waiting for the outrage from europe and the usa why we continue to allow russians to travel to the west in any capacity until russia accepts responsibility for, apologises for, and pays compensation to the victims of mh17.  the fault is 100% russia's without any question, and yet we seem to have just let it go.
 
2017-10-13 04:32:45 AM  

Ned Stark: Go ahead and be as butthurt about it as you want, you don't get to destroy Syria.


True enough.  The Syrians beat us to it.
 
2017-10-13 04:33:21 AM  
Not necessarily. All parties do want to squelch Kurdish independence, but Russia is probably bringing Turkey into the fold in order to counter Iranian influence in Syria. Russia wants their puppet in charge, not Tehran's.
 
2017-10-13 04:43:22 AM  

Birnone: I think all those other countries, including Turkey, are waking up and realizing the US won't be there permanently. What happens when the US leaves? So they are all making moves to be ready to claim their slice of the pie when the time comes. If I was the Kurds I'd start looking around to see who else I could partner with because I wouldn't trust the US to be there when the shiat hits the fan.


Actually it is the opposite we may never leave or let them have say over their own country. US still has bases in Germany and Japan.  Iraq and Afghanistan have been subjugated but we aren't leaving there until the oil, opium and lithium are gone.  The commanders of our police, military, and navy have been violating the most basic of human rights and codes of moral conduct nationally and internationally.  The US will totally be there when the shait hits the fan because we will be the ones throwing it from Israel's dirty hairy ass.
 
2017-10-13 04:56:49 AM  

Birnone: I think all those other countries, including Turkey, are waking up and realizing the US won't be there permanently. What happens when the US leaves? So they are all making moves to be ready to claim their slice of the pie when the time comes. If I was the Kurds I'd start looking around to see who else I could partner with because I wouldn't trust the US to be there when the shiat hits the fan.


The problem with that from the rest of the world's perspective is "how exactly does the US leave?"  If we go back to isolationism, which is our default state and the one that we were quietly headed back towards until 9/11, yeah, land grabs are totally in play again.

If we go out in a bout of fire and nuclear fury, there's no real way to plan for what comes next or how to prepare for it, that's new territory, and conventional wisdom will always fail you there.

Either way, the blood is in the water and the sharks are getting bolder... and we've got a god damned thin skinned narcissist with his finger on the button... at this point I just want my nation to retire with grace.  We've developed too many internal problems for us to try to tackle foreign affairs at the moment.

Yet at the same time our power vacuum will be filled by China and Russia globally as the EU seems to be falling apart.  fark, I need another drink
 
2017-10-13 05:02:28 AM  
Trump is seriously considering getting out of NATO.    After all, abandoning millions of US citizens is not an attractive behavior for pledging mutual protections to foreigners and their governments.
 
2017-10-13 05:36:40 AM  

4th Horseman: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Gee, that invasion of Iraq sure worked out swell, didn't it?

The invasion actually went pretty well, actually.

It was the occupation that we farked up.


As always since WWII
 
2017-10-13 05:46:33 AM  
Good job, Trump!  And a honorable mention thumbs up for Dubya Bush for destabilizing the whole goddamn region.
 
2017-10-13 05:48:40 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Gee, that invasion of Iraq sure worked out swell, didn't it?


Thanks, Obama.
 
2017-10-13 06:10:37 AM  
Can't tell the players without a program.
 
2017-10-13 06:22:55 AM  
Time to make Instanbul back into Constantinople. Then maybe Europe can get some monies.
 
2017-10-13 06:47:53 AM  
More than half of America voted against U.S. forces as well.
 
2017-10-13 06:58:36 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Speaking of Turkey, there's also this in the Washington Post.

At the center of the increasingly bitter dispute between the United States and Turkey is a demand by an irate President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that American prosecutors free a Turkish-Iranian gold dealer who is about to go on trial on money-laundering and fraud charges. [...]

Erdogan's campaign to free Zarrab has been extraordinary. He demanded his release as well as the firing of Bharara in a private meeting with then-Vice President Joe Biden on Sept. 21, 2016, in which U.S. officials say half the 90-minute conversation was devoted to Zarrab. [...]

Erdogan's government began cultivating Donald Trump's team before the election. Michael Flynn, then a campaign aide, was hired as a pro-Turkey lobbyist, and his firm continued to receive Turkish money during the transition. After Flynn resigned as national security adviser in February, the Turks began working with Rudy Giuliani, a close Trump adviser. [...]


The rest of the world is figuring out what the big corporations figured some time back, US politics runs on the jukebox theory:
whoever pays the quarter chooses the song.
 
2017-10-13 07:00:17 AM  

L.D. Ablo: [img.fark.net image 840x474]


If that spreads on twitter, I bet a certain you-know-who will claim it as Fake News!!<tm>
 
2017-10-13 07:31:53 AM  

electricjebus: Birnone: I think all those other countries, including Turkey, are waking up and realizing the US won't be there permanently. What happens when the US leaves? So they are all making moves to be ready to claim their slice of the pie when the time comes. If I was the Kurds I'd start looking around to see who else I could partner with because I wouldn't trust the US to be there when the shiat hits the fan.

The problem with that from the rest of the world's perspective is "how exactly does the US leave?"  If we go back to isolationism, which is our default state and the one that we were quietly headed back towards until 9/11, yeah, land grabs are totally in play again.

If we go out in a bout of fire and nuclear fury, there's no real way to plan for what comes next or how to prepare for it, that's new territory, and conventional wisdom will always fail you there.

Either way, the blood is in the water and the sharks are getting bolder... and we've got a god damned thin skinned narcissist with his finger on the button... at this point I just want my nation to retire with grace.  We've developed too many internal problems for us to try to tackle foreign affairs at the moment.

Yet at the same time our power vacuum will be filled by China and Russia globally as the EU seems to be falling apart.  fark, I need another drink


Your second scenario's outcome is pretty easy to predict, I welcome our 10-foot long radioactive mutant cockroach overlords.
 
2017-10-13 07:37:49 AM  

Jake Havechek: Good job, Trump!  And a honorable mention thumbs up for Dubya Bush for destabilizing the whole goddamn region.


And for getting us into Syria. But hey, at least we're in a sustainable losing position these days.
 
2017-10-13 08:19:52 AM  
So, Turkish revenge on the US for supporting the Kurds anywhere?
 
2017-10-13 08:28:48 AM  

serfdood: So, Turkish revenge on the US for supporting the Kurds anywhere?


Basically.
The Kurds aligned with us in the gulf wars but have always been the red headed stepchildren of the region. No one wants them to have their own state because of religious and economic reasons (they'll sit on a good bit of the oil, if I recall), but personally I think it would be one of the few things that brings long term stability.

Turkey today is a dictatorship and no longer the NATO ally we knew. If they're going to point guns at us then there's no reason not to consider them hostile and return fire.
 
2017-10-13 08:36:38 AM  
Hahahaha.  There is a certain farker here that the other day was getting all pissy about our lack of support for turkey. What a joke.  Leftists.   Not all cultures are equal.
 
2017-10-13 08:38:30 AM  

Your Dance Instructor: Hahahaha.  There is a certain farker here that the other day was getting all pissy about our lack of support for turkey. What a joke.  Leftists.   Not all cultures are equal.


Your comment probably made more sense in Russian.
 
2017-10-13 08:38:31 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-10-13 08:48:34 AM  
You mean backing a Kurdish nation - when the Kurds live in and want territory including oil fields from Iraq, Turkey, Syria and Iran - might cause all of those nations to turn against said Kurds? Whodathunkit? One reason the Kurds have started talking to Putin is because at the end of the day they're going to have to live there and if all of your potential neighbors are talking to Putin then...
 
2017-10-13 08:50:54 AM  

way south: serfdood: So, Turkish revenge on the US for supporting the Kurds anywhere?

Basically.
The Kurds aligned with us in the gulf wars but have always been the red headed stepchildren of the region. No one wants them to have their own state because of religious and economic reasons (they'll sit on a good bit of the oil, if I recall), but personally I think it would be one of the few things that brings long term stability.

Turkey today is a dictatorship and no longer the NATO ally we knew. If they're going to point guns at us then there's no reason not to consider them hostile and return fire.


There's a huge area of Kurds in Turkey that's been actively anti-regime for decades and vice-versa, there's a lot of bad blood between the two sides.
 
2017-10-13 09:51:13 AM  
It might be time to redraw the map and try for a 2 or 3 way split of what is now Turkey.
 
2017-10-13 09:59:25 AM  

RedVentrue: 4th Horseman: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Gee, that invasion of Iraq sure worked out swell, didn't it?

The invasion actually went pretty well, actually.

It was the occupation that we farked up.

As always since WWII


....aaaaaaand here comes WWIII
 
2017-10-13 10:13:51 AM  
Turkey should have never been allowed in NATO to begin with.
 
2017-10-13 10:25:47 AM  

Horizon: Turkey should have never been allowed in NATO to begin with.


Listen man, I played enough Third Reich back in the day to know that whether you are the Allies or the Axis, you want to get Turkey on your side.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2017-10-13 11:19:23 AM  

Horizon: Turkey should have never been allowed in NATO to begin with.


What?  No.

Until the current dictator took over, Turkey was a secular democracy, on track to join the EU.

Turkey looks a lot like what would happen to us if the religionists get full control of our government, it's a perfect example of why that can't be allowed to happen.
 
2017-10-13 12:03:34 PM  

Birnone: I think all those other countries, including Turkey, are waking up and realizing the US won't be there permanently. What happens when the US leaves? So they are all making moves to be ready to claim their slice of the pie when the time comes. If I was the Kurds I'd start looking around to see who else I could partner with because I wouldn't trust the US to be there when the shiat hits the fan.


I'd be OK with partnering with a Kurdish nation for regional security if a) U.S. assistance precluded secret dealings with Russia and b) we transition away from Israel to do it; I mean, at least the Kurds haven't been caught spying on us (on U.S. soil no less).
 
2017-10-13 12:20:02 PM  
Trump is finally bringing people together.
 
2017-10-13 12:40:46 PM  
i thought the 'US backed forces' were just ISIS.
 
2017-10-13 01:18:31 PM  

Horizon: Turkey should have never been allowed in NATO to begin with.


Why? They were an incredibly valuable geographic asset, a significant military power, and had a tradition of military intervention to preserve the secular/democratic state. An ideal candidate, and certainly not one that we should have simply abandoned to being a Soviet puppet state.

It's only really been recent developments that have made it look like such a basket case.
 
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