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(Vox)   Which is more important: A) not treating our players like children or B) avoiding Trumper tantrums   ( vox.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, racial injustice, Protest, police brutality, NFL protests, National Football League, Police, NFL player Colin, The Star-Spangled Banner  
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870 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 Oct 2017 at 9:53 PM (7 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



65 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-10-10 04:07:06 PM  
Well, you're not supposed to taunt the dynamite monkey.
I'd imagine that goes for the moron with the tac-nuke, too.
 
2017-10-10 08:37:35 PM  
Good luck maintaining the league w/o any black players. Even the ones who aren't protesting now and didn't want any controversy will likely join after they hear that the white owners got together to tell them they should behave according to the whims of some racist crackers.
 
2017-10-10 10:04:28 PM  
I cannot believe people actually support this guy and hang on his every word and action.
 
2017-10-10 10:15:48 PM  
Kneel.

And then watch the NFL rendered impotent.

Protests don't work when the audience is comfortable.
 
2017-10-10 10:24:33 PM  
Finally Goodell does something right, this 3 ring circus should have ended after Kaepernicks stunt. Just because you don't like authority doesn't mean you should make a mockery of everyone else. This is a business, and employees should act accordingly.
 
2017-10-10 10:26:36 PM  

mikechoiselat: This is a business, and employees should act accordingly.


Good.

Fire the ones you don't like. Replace them.
 
2017-10-10 10:30:06 PM  
The NFL is going to order the players to stand for the national anthem.  However, I bet the order does not specify that they stand on their feet.  So how about some headstands, handstands, or other stands.  That I'd love to see.
 
2017-10-10 10:32:01 PM  

Gonz: Kneel.

And then watch the NFL rendered impotent.

Protests don't work when the audience is comfortable.


It will matter if teams start forfeiting games as a form of protesting the government.
 
6 days ago  

mikechoiselat: Finally Goodell does something right, this 3 ring circus should have ended after Kaepernicks stunt. Just because you don't like authority doesn't mean you should make a mockery of everyone else. This is a business, and employees should act accordingly.


I didn't realize they were hired to stand for the national anthem. Professional anthem-standers. Right there in the contract. Then they play football just because they happen to be there.
 
6 days ago  

harleyquinnical: Gonz: Kneel.

And then watch the NFL rendered impotent.

Protests don't work when the audience is comfortable.

It will matter if teams start forfeiting games as a form of protesting the government.


Huh.

If only a bunch of college-educated dudes, predominantly Black, had a way to make a billionaire lose money.
 
6 days ago  
Force players to kneel like good field slaves and I'll never watch another minute of NFL football again.

Disrespecting the flag? How about disrespecting your fan base by demanding a new stadium and threatening to move the team if you don't get it?

Jerry Jones took over 400 million in taxpayers money. Honor the troops and the rest of the country, Jerry, by paying the money back.
 
6 days ago  
Nothing says freedom like compulsion.
 
6 days ago  
I'm absolutely for players continuing to kneel, sit, stand, or do whatever they damn well please, ESPECIALLY if it becomes a league-wide "rule" that they must stand; BUT seriously, how hard would it be to go to pre-2009 protocol and just keep the teams in the damn locker rooms during the playing of Jingo Bells??
 
6 days ago  
I will go with C:

Not losing 20% of our revenue
 
6 days ago  
Serious question, how many players are Jehovah Witnesses? I know they can't do the Pledge, but I dunno about the Anthem. When I watch the Williams sisters, I always skip that part (and the only Olympic medal I remember them winning was mixed doubles, so no, I wasn't watching that).
 
6 days ago  

harleyquinnical: Gonz: Kneel.

And then watch the NFL rendered impotent.

Protests don't work when the audience is comfortable.

It will matter if teams start forfeiting games as a form of protesting the government.


This is one of the smartest things said so far

Stop playing.

I tried explaining this in another thread and the point got lost in the warbble

NFL made 14 billion dollars last year

Players only saw 4.8 billion of it

In what other industry does ownership pay themselves the equivalent to all their employees combined and still own the company as an asset worth billions of dollars?
 
6 days ago  
=

smerfnablin: harleyquinnical: Gonz: Kneel.

And then watch the NFL rendered impotent.

Protests don't work when the audience is comfortable.

It will matter if teams start forfeiting games as a form of protesting the government.

This is one of the smartest things said so far

Stop playing.

I tried explaining this in another thread and the point got lost in the warbble

NFL made 14 billion dollars last year

Players only saw 4.8 billion of it

In what other industry does ownership pay themselves the equivalent to all their employees combined and still own the company as an asset worth billions of dollars?


We're headed for labor armageddon to start with in the NFL  - Trump's stupid ass might accelerate it to use as a cultural wedge for the morons who support him.

Everything Trump touches turns to shiat, often purposefully.
 
6 days ago  
The flag is a symbol.  It is not more important than the freedom it represents.

The kneeling is a protest regarding nationwide policy brutality and state sanctioned murder of African Americans.
 
6 days ago  
Money.

The league would only be taking action if this anthem stuff was starting to hit the bottom line.  If league revenues are taking a hit, the PA will want to encourage players to comply because the cap and money going to players is based on a percentage of revenue.
 
rka
6 days ago  
So much for Roger Goodell standing by his players. If they didn't already think he was a piece of shiat just wait until he publically reverses his stance from a few weeks ago. It's one thing to be a craven coward, it's another to do so in such a public manner.

And by doing so he's going to give the player's union plenty of ammo in the labor grievances that will certainly follow any attempt to discipline a player for kneeling. The current NFL rules for standing aren't worth the paper they are printed on after the NFL has allowed this to happen for over a year. They can't put the toothpaste back in the tube on this one.

The NLFPA is usually fairly toothless but they'll go to the mattresses for this one and it will be a slam dunk in front of any independent arbitrator or labor judge.
 
6 days ago  

chuggernaught: The flag is a symbol.  It is not more important than the freedom it represents.

The kneeling is a protest regarding nationwide policy brutality and state sanctioned murder of African Americans.


We all know that. But that truth makes people feel uncomfortable so they pretend it's about the flag itself.
 
6 days ago  
Aladdin was just on TV since I didn't change the channel after my kids went to bed and one of Robin Williams singing lines is approximately "get on on one knee -- have some respect" when Aladdin paraded through town so that made me lol given current events.
 
6 days ago  

rka: So much for Roger Goodell standing by his players.


To be fair the president just called into question the NFLs tax breaks and non profit status

Panic mode engaged
 
6 days ago  
NFL feeling the heat from declining ratings. Whether or not the protests have to do with the ratings is irrelevant, this is a move to make it look like the NFL is trying to right their ship.

But it changes nothing. Players will protests with raised fists and other shiat. Ratings will still be down.
 
6 days ago  
If they do that, I will stop watching. You all should too.
 
6 days ago  
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20984095/labor-union-files-complai​n​t-cowboys-jerry-jones-national-anthem-mandate-team

And threatening employees is technically against labor laws, especially w/ a union that can call on the Labor Board.
/theoretically
//the whole point of stacking the Supreme Court is so they can rule all labor unions unconstitutional
///there's a reason they were so hellbent on moving Labor Day to September instead of May 1st
 
6 days ago  

smerfnablin: harleyquinnical: Gonz: Kneel.

And then watch the NFL rendered impotent.

Protests don't work when the audience is comfortable.

It will matter if teams start forfeiting games as a form of protesting the government.

This is one of the smartest things said so far

Stop playing.

I tried explaining this in another thread and the point got lost in the warbble

NFL made 14 billion dollars last year

Players only saw 4.8 billion of it

In what other industry does ownership pay themselves the equivalent to all their employees combined and still own the company as an asset worth billions of dollars?


If they don't like it, they don't have to play.
 
6 days ago  

Paduke: =smerfnablin: harleyquinnical: Gonz: Kneel.

And then watch the NFL rendered impotent.

Protests don't work when the audience is comfortable.

It will matter if teams start forfeiting games as a form of protesting the government.

This is one of the smartest things said so far

Stop playing.

I tried explaining this in another thread and the point got lost in the warbble

NFL made 14 billion dollars last year

Players only saw 4.8 billion of it

In what other industry does ownership pay themselves the equivalent to all their employees combined and still own the company as an asset worth billions of dollars?

We're headed for labor armageddon to start with in the NFL  - Trump's stupid ass might accelerate it to use as a cultural wedge for the morons who support him.

Everything Trump touches turns to shiat, often purposefully.


Ok
 
6 days ago  

WhyKnot: smerfnablin: harleyquinnical: Gonz: Kneel.

If they don't like it, they don't have to play.


if you like the taste of leather, nobody gonna stop you from lickin boots either
 
6 days ago  

Mrtraveler01: chuggernaught: The flag is a symbol.  It is not more important than the freedom it represents.

The kneeling is a protest regarding nationwide policy brutality and state sanctioned murder of African Americans.

We all know that. But that truth makes people feel uncomfortable so they pretend it's about the flag itself.


As soon as you make your protest about your group, don't be offended when other groups doesn't give you the attention you desire.

 If the players really cared about police brutality, it wouldn't be simply about black people it would be about all police brutality.
 
6 days ago  

spesimen: WhyKnot: smerfnablin: harleyquinnical: Gonz: Kneel.

If they don't like it, they don't have to play.

if you like the taste of leather, nobody gonna stop you from lickin boots either


Ok comrade.
 
6 days ago  

WhyKnot: Mrtraveler01: chuggernaught: The flag is a symbol.  It is not more important than the freedom it represents.

The kneeling is a protest regarding nationwide policy brutality and state sanctioned murder of African Americans.

We all know that. But that truth makes people feel uncomfortable so they pretend it's about the flag itself.

As soon as you make your protest about your group, don't be offended when other groups doesn't give you the attention you desire.

 If the players really cared about police brutality, it wouldn't be simply about black people it would be about all police brutality.


Gate keeping... Eh? Did you author the book on how to properly protest?
 
6 days ago  
Here's my dirty solution: Everybody change their TD celebration to a kneel in the endzone with the raised fist.
 
6 days ago  
Is this a trick question?
the answer is: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
6 days ago  

smerfnablin: rka: So much for Roger Goodell standing by his players.

To be fair the president just called into question the NFLs tax breaks and non profit status

Panic mode engaged


it won't matter much, in the next year or two, when the players aren't making anywhere near what they are now. no one will want to watch two hand touch or flag foosball.

trump is a fool. a wiser person would have kept their mouth shut and let the nfl or the the teams handle the matter however they wanted.
 
6 days ago  
It's genius. Trump gets the kneeling players thrown out of the league, he resigns from office, starts his own league, and signs all those banned players to compete directly with the NFL! He'll need a patriotic name for the league, like the "United States Football League" or something like that.
 
6 days ago  

What_Would_Jimi_Do: smerfnablin: rka: So much for Roger Goodell standing by his players.

To be fair the president just called into question the NFLs tax breaks and non profit status

Panic mode engaged

it won't matter much, in the next year or two, when the players aren't making anywhere near what they are now. no one will want to watch two hand touch or flag foosball.

trump is a fool. a wiser person would have kept their mouth shut and let the nfl or the the teams handle the matter however they wanted.


Trump is getting exactly what he wants: chaos in the sports league that embarrassed him back in the 80s.

Exhibit V in Trump's use of the presidency only as a means of personal gain--in this case, revenge.
 
6 days ago  
I'm strongly tempted to stop watching altogether if the NFL cracks down.
 
6 days ago  

smerfnablin: harleyquinnical: Gonz: Kneel.

And then watch the NFL rendered impotent.

Protests don't work when the audience is comfortable.

It will matter if teams start forfeiting games as a form of protesting the government.

This is one of the smartest things said so far

Stop playing.

I tried explaining this in another thread and the point got lost in the warbble

NFL made 14 billion dollars last year

Players only saw 4.8 billion of it

In what other industry does ownership pay themselves the equivalent to all their employees combined and still own the company as an asset worth billions of dollars?


Lol pretty much EVERY farkin business around! That's actually a quite low percentage, considering other companies have share holders etc to pay. Please take a business course, so you don't look so foolish.
 
6 days ago  
Remember when Marshawn Lynch kept saying "I'm just here so I don't get fined" during his press conferences? That's what the national anthem is going to be like if they force the players to stand. It's going to be uncomfortable and awkward and anything but patriotic. The only thing it will prove is that when you have enough leverage over people, you can force them to comply.

Yay America.
 
6 days ago  

Gonz: mikechoiselat: This is a business, and employees should act accordingly.

Fire the ones you don't like. Replace them.


NFL players are contractors, not employees. You can't fire them. You *may* have cause to terminate their contract, if they violate any of it's terms; but if the contract as written does not explicitly state that they must stand for the anthem, well that's just too bad - you're stuck with them.

You can, of course, bench them.... but you must continue to pay them. So you'll be paying them anyway, and you'll be losing games, and fans, and TV ratings.
 
6 days ago  
If you demand anyone, ever, stand for the anthem, you are literally being a fascist. Oh it's about respect? Then earn it. You never ever get to demand respect, you earn it. Don't want to earn it? Then go to hell. And if you think it is in any way acceptable to tell black men when and how to protest, you are telling he world you're a racist.
 
6 days ago  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I'm strongly tempted to stop watching altogether if the NFL cracks down.


img.fark.net
 
6 days ago  
I've been a lifelong Cowboys fan (50yrs/5SBs), and the most badass thing that this team could do, is for all all of them is to take a knee and walk off the field. fark Jerry Jones, and the President. I love football, but I love freedom even more. Its not like the Cowboys letting me down for yet another season is anything new.
 
6 days ago  
I'm not a fan of the kneeling protest, it isn't descriptive. It doesn't articulate the grievance.  Players who want to hold press conferences, community events and protests, or maybe derail a few news interviews would do more to express what that player is thinking and why.

Do I know what specifically you are protesting when you kneel? No, I could assume it has something to generally do with minority experiences in America today, but what specifically and why now?  Use words.  Tell people that it is about the number of black men abused by the police, or the recent death of someone due to various abuses, or mistreatment by racists, etc.  For example, the Michael Bennett story from a few weeks ago was a very specific event, where he talked about how he perceived the police treatment of him during a shooting, he has an excellent attorney (who I know and respect the hell out of) in John Burris who helped tell his story.  Of course people will be bothered by it and will try to shoot it down, but then we are talking about the actual issue instead of the flag and the NFL, two things which do not further the conversation so much as placate disparate bases while making everyone else want to turn away.
 
6 days ago  

chapman: , but what specifically and why now?


How about you get off your ass and go talk to some black people? Stop demanding like every entitled white man to have everyone spoonfeed you everything. Go out there and find out about how people live and what they deal with. And you don't get to tell a black man how to protest. In case you haven't noticed, in America there is never a right way for a black man to protest. So how about instead of continuing the marginalization of blacks, you get off your ass and find out what the deal is?
 
6 days ago  

chapman: I'm not a fan of the kneeling protest, it isn't descriptive. It doesn't articulate the grievance.  Players who want to hold press conferences, community events and protests, or maybe derail a few news interviews would do more to express what that player is thinking and why.

Do I know what specifically you are protesting when you kneel? No, I could assume it has something to generally do with minority experiences in America today, but what specifically and why now?  Use words.  Tell people that it is about the number of black men abused by the police, or the recent death of someone due to various abuses, or mistreatment by racists, etc.  For example, the Michael Bennett story from a few weeks ago was a very specific event, where he talked about how he perceived the police treatment of him during a shooting, he has an excellent attorney (who I know and respect the hell out of) in John Burris who helped tell his story.  Of course people will be bothered by it and will try to shoot it down, but then we are talking about the actual issue instead of the flag and the NFL, two things which do not further the conversation so much as placate disparate bases while making everyone else want to turn away.


I think most people, and probably all people who watch the NFL regularly, are aware of what the original Kaepernick protest was about. He explained his motives in several interviews.
 
6 days ago  

Likwit: chapman: I'm not a fan of the kneeling protest, it isn't descriptive. It doesn't articulate the grievance.  Players who want to hold press conferences, community events and protests, or maybe derail a few news interviews would do more to express what that player is thinking and why.

Do I know what specifically you are protesting when you kneel? No, I could assume it has something to generally do with minority experiences in America today, but what specifically and why now?  Use words.  Tell people that it is about the number of black men abused by the police, or the recent death of someone due to various abuses, or mistreatment by racists, etc.  For example, the Michael Bennett story from a few weeks ago was a very specific event, where he talked about how he perceived the police treatment of him during a shooting, he has an excellent attorney (who I know and respect the hell out of) in John Burris who helped tell his story.  Of course people will be bothered by it and will try to shoot it down, but then we are talking about the actual issue instead of the flag and the NFL, two things which do not further the conversation so much as placate disparate bases while making everyone else want to turn away.


I think most people, and probably all people who watch the NFL regularly, are aware of what the original Kaepernick protest was about. He explained his motives in several interviews.


Now there are plenty of other protesters joining in across the sport (and moving into other sports). Are people supposed to impute Kaep's motives to the rest of the protesters?  How about some of his poor branding of the issue with Che shirts and Pig socks?  Do they have to own those too?  Kaep is not in the league.  These are different people, who should reasonably be expected to have their own thoughts, feelings and perspectives that could articulate those concerns and hopefully do it in a way that appeals to their local community if not the nation.  Some of these protesters may just have a generalized grievance about race relations in the US, some might have specific grievances about Trump,  just dismissing it as "Kaepernick covered it" is insufficient.

Also, in case you didn't catch it, Kaepernick didn't do a great job with the matter even if he did help ignite the passions of others. Maybe we could find a better spokesperson.  Richard Sherman for example is very astute.  He's smart.  He is passionate. He's charismatic as heck.  He is a great example of someone who has been vocal and made it clear about exactly what he is thinking and that he thinks the issues through instead of just parroting a line.  As the face of a movement, you could do much worse.  There are others out there who could similarly be part of that movement and really make a difference, even in small ways.  Hell, I'd love it if some of the players on my local team called into the local sports show and shared what was on their mind in a real way instead of doing PR speak.

Notice, nobody in the national media, including but not limited to the president, is trying to deal with the racial issue. They are focusing on the flag, patriotism and other downstream issues from that.  Go through these threads, the discussion is about those things more than the racial components  that the protest is supposed to be about.  In my years of working in politics at even my minor level, that's a sign of an ineffective protest.
 
6 days ago  

chapman: I'm not a fan of the kneeling protest, it isn't descriptive. It doesn't articulate the grievance.  Players who want to hold press conferences, community events and protests, or maybe derail a few news interviews would do more to express what that player is thinking and why.

Do I know what specifically you are protesting when you kneel? No, I could assume it has something to generally do with minority experiences in America today, but what specifically and why now?  Use words.  Tell people that it is about the number of black men abused by the police, or the recent death of someone due to various abuses, or mistreatment by racists, etc.  For example, the Michael Bennett story from a few weeks ago was a very specific event, where he talked about how he perceived the police treatment of him during a shooting, he has an excellent attorney (who I know and respect the hell out of) in John Burris who helped tell his story.  Of course people will be bothered by it and will try to shoot it down, but then we are talking about the actual issue instead of the flag and the NFL, two things which do not further the conversation so much as placate disparate bases while making everyone else want to turn away.


Words did not work.
 
6 days ago  

chapman: Notice, nobody in the national media, including but not limited to the president, is trying to deal with the racial issue. They are focusing on the flag, patriotism and other downstream issues from that. Go through these threads, the discussion is about those things more than the racial components that the protest is supposed to be about. In my years of working in politics at even my minor level, that's a sign of an ineffective protest.


Because far too many white people will just sit back and do nothing. We don't listen to black people in America. We don't. That's why the protests are happening.
 
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