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(Irish Independent)   Parents charged with manslaughter after newborn dies from treatable jaundice because parents refused to seek medical help. Their excuse? "God makes no mistakes"   ( independent.ie) divider line
    More: Sick, Ms Piland, Detective Peter Scaccia, Pediatrics, medical examiner, Faith Tech Ministries, Medicine, two-day-year old child, fellow church members  
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5060 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Oct 2017 at 6:04 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2017-10-06 03:10:25 AM  
54 votes:
Wrong. God made at least two: these farking shiat stain parents.

/if there was a God, that is
2017-10-06 03:10:42 AM  
43 votes:
So I guess God wasn't responsible for the human rationality that led to science and medicine.
2017-10-06 03:28:36 AM  
40 votes:
christanity is not our friend.
2017-10-06 03:55:18 AM  
32 votes:
That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."
2017-10-06 05:16:59 AM  
30 votes:
Hilarious. Y'know, the thing that I find most interesting about the concept of a deity is that, for all we know, if such an entity even exists, the only true "act" that entity probably performed was to force a superposition to collapse into a position for the first damned time, ever, by observing it, and that everything that occurred after that was entirely driven by observation, not action.

Of course that God makes no mistakes - He does nothing, good or bad, but merely watches. Perhaps we could wrap a religion around the Prime Observer, and make observation a sacred ritual. Imagine the fun - suddenly, the first true act of the scientific method is also the First Act of the One True Religion. We are made in that God's image because, like God, our act of observation changes both observer and observed, and the more observed the phenomenon, the more influence the observers have upon it - in other words, like God, we, too, can change reality through observation. We develop a catechism that includes all who observe, without discrimination - indeed, "God's creatures" are defined by their ability to effect observation great enough to influence quantum events.

Or, I could just be really bored because I can't sleep and I'm taking a break from writing documentation about open source database implementations.
2017-10-06 02:55:05 AM  
30 votes:
If you really want to cause dissension in the ranks, ask "We know God is perfect, and doesn't make mistakes, but if you were God, what would you change about today's world .... ?"

And watch them try to hold two conflicting ideas in their tiny regimented minds
2017-10-06 06:07:07 AM  
28 votes:
So I guess it's God's will that you go to prison for a long while.
2017-10-06 06:14:38 AM  
19 votes:

aagrajag: Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others


actually, there are at least a couple of faiths/religions that demand you study and question the world around you.  Judiasm does, so does neo-paganism and modern heathenry.  eastern religions too I believe, although I couldn't cite specific examples.

islam and christanity tho, they built their political, social and economic power base on creating and maintaining fear, ignorance and unquestioning obedience.
2017-10-06 05:37:29 AM  
19 votes:

bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."


that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.
2017-10-06 06:37:29 AM  
17 votes:

Weaver95: christanity is not our friend.


Never has been.
 It was designed from the ground up as a slaves religion to keep the poor and lessers in line.
  Roll over, stick your ass in the air and yell thank you god, I deserved that ass pounding, give me another.
  Don't worry now, after you die, you will spend forever in paradise and all the bad mean people will get their just rewards.
  Just remember to thank him for the fact that the shiat sandwich you eat every day has any bread at all.
    Oh, and even though he created everything, nothing evil is his fault.
  A religion for slaves and mindless fools.
2017-10-06 05:36:20 AM  
15 votes:
The overlap between religion and stupidity/mental illness is as obvious as anything in God's creation.
2017-10-06 03:56:46 AM  
11 votes:
God might be right here and have those assholes locked up for years to keep them from being assholes that are breeding more assholes.
2017-10-06 06:42:44 AM  
10 votes:

lucksi: Both Josh and (Rachel) reached out to friends and fellow church members to come to their home and pray for Abigail's resurrection

Man, some people really need to be allahu akbared...

Also, how is this involuntary manslaughter? Not seeking help isn't an oopsy that just happens.


THIS. These parents knowingly, willfully and deliberately prevented this child from getting live saving medical help.
  That is straight up murder.
2017-10-06 05:23:13 AM  
9 votes:

FormlessOne: Hilarious. Y'know, the thing that I find most interesting about the concept of a deity is that, for all we know, if such an entity even exists, the only true "act" that entity probably performed was to force a superposition to collapse into a position for the first damned time, ever, by observing it, and that everything that occurred after that was entirely driven by observation, not action.


i've never understood why the christians tried to claim their god was all knowing and all powerful.  their religion is pretty late to the game....its been around what?  2000 years AT MOST?  less than that even, depending on how you count and which splinter sect we're talking about.  I could maybe see it if the christians just said their god was 'powerful'.  ok, sure.  I can go with that.  but 'all knowing/all powerful'?  c'mon.  that's just not ever going to make sense.
2017-10-06 06:16:28 AM  
8 votes:
Both Josh and (Rachel) reached out to friends and fellow church members to come to their home and pray for Abigail's resurrection

Man, some people really need to be allahu akbared...

Also, how is this involuntary manslaughter? Not seeking help isn't an oopsy that just happens.
2017-10-06 05:50:50 AM  
8 votes:

mjjt: If you really want to cause dissension in the ranks, ask "We know God is perfect, and doesn't make mistakes, but if you were God, what would you change about today's world .... ?"

And watch them try to hold two conflicting ideas in their tiny regimented minds


Religious extremists have no problem utterly believing directly incompatible ideas. That's what you get from centuries of violently repressing any questions.
2017-10-06 06:18:39 AM  
7 votes:
This is a condition that can literally be treated by shining light on the baby. I believe even bright sunlight can help.

I hope the parents find themselves standing on the roof of their car in rising floodwaters.
2017-10-06 06:19:39 AM  
6 votes:

Weaver95: aagrajag: Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others

actually, there are at least a couple of faiths/religions that demand you study and question the world around you.  Judiasm does, so does neo-paganism and modern heathenry.  eastern religions too I believe, although I couldn't cite specific examples.

islam and christanity tho, they built their political, social and economic power base on creating and maintaining fear, ignorance and unquestioning obedience.


---
there are at least a couple of faiths/religions that demand you study and question the world around you.

This is true, certainly of most forms of Judaism and the Jesuits, but it remains the fact that even those groups will only explore the world and its reality insofar as it can be reconciled with their most basic dogmas. Some are more flexible than others but when reality conflicts with the more fundamental teachings, they will crimestop every time.

Critical thinking and faith are mutual enemies.
2017-10-06 06:06:35 AM  
6 votes:
How about this: they go free on their merry way after having surrendered their testicles and ovaries?
2017-10-06 08:15:03 AM  
5 votes:
A rowboat, a powerboat, and a helicopter.
2017-10-06 06:33:30 AM  
5 votes:

MmmmBacon: But there are at least a few that have been virtually taken over by white supremacists, and are merely a vehicle for recruiting anymore.


yeah, I know a couple of those asshats in my local area.

f*cktards don't know what they're talking about.
2017-10-06 06:09:44 AM  
5 votes:

Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.


Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.
2017-10-06 06:00:40 AM  
5 votes:
Looks like God made at least two mistakes.
2017-10-06 07:23:43 AM  
4 votes:

chuggernaught: Weaver95: christanity is not our friend.

A couple of asshats do something evil so you blame the entire religion?  You're better than that.  That's something a Republican would do.


well, I'm openly pagan living in trumper central so I might be a bit sensitive about the whole 'christanity' thing.  people driving by chanting 'burn the witch' while I walk the dog tends to make me a tad jumpy for at least a couple of weeks afterwards.

if it helps any, the only really horribly bad experience I've personally had with christians has been almost entirely limited to the screeching madness of evangelical christanity.  most other sects tend to impose their faith on us via the standard means of buying votes and politicians just like everyone else.  its the evangelicals who show up and throw things at us at pagan pride events, and shout hellfire and damnation at us with bullhorns.
2017-10-06 07:11:41 AM  
4 votes:
Despite the fact Abigail wasn't eating properly and coughed up blood, the detective said Ms Piland put the two-day-year old child "near a window wearing just a diaper utilizing a hair dryer to keep her warm".

What horrendous people.
2017-10-06 06:18:00 AM  
4 votes:

lucksi: Also, how is this involuntary manslaughter? Not seeking help isn't an oopsy that just happens.


Because they are Christian.

Forget religious, it is because of their religion.

But, this is America, and that's... okay...?
2017-10-06 05:55:55 AM  
4 votes:
Just another day in the third world.
2017-10-06 01:24:02 PM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: christanity is not our friend.


Religion is not our friend.
2017-10-06 12:40:40 PM  
3 votes:
"He [the father] attempted one rescue breath but had no success. He did not want to perform CPR because he only knew how to perform it on adults, not children," the detective said.

If you believe God makes no mistakes, why did you learn CPR ?

"They then brought Abigail upstairs to pray for her. Joshua continued to massage Abigail, attempting to get her good air. Both Josh and (Rachel) reached out to friends and fellow church members to come to their home and pray for Abigail's resurrection, but never called the police."

If you believe God makes no mistakes, why did you and your friends go against his will by offering prayers and treatments to reverse what he did to your family ?
2017-10-06 10:33:16 AM  
3 votes:
God doesn't make mistakes?  My personal medical history begs to differ.
2017-10-06 09:48:23 AM  
3 votes:
Someone should ask them if they are cool with late term abortions since they killed their baby. Just to watch their heads explode, of course.
2017-10-06 09:34:11 AM  
3 votes:
Your right to swing your arms around ends where another human being's nose begins.

Your religious right ends where another human being's right to live and not suffer any more than necessary begins.
2017-10-06 08:47:21 AM  
3 votes:
Good. I'm glad they're being charged and I hope they enjoy the sentence that gets handed down. If they like, they can pretend god is "testing" them.
2017-10-06 07:56:53 AM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: christanity is not our friend.


One could argue that organized religion, in general, is not our friend.

Spirituality should be to seek enlightenment, not to confirm our own biases.
2017-10-06 07:28:53 AM  
3 votes:
These two need to be sterilized.
2017-10-06 07:26:01 AM  
3 votes:
God makes no lmistakes. People make mistakes all the damn time, causing God no end of frustration.
2017-10-06 07:01:26 AM  
3 votes:
Now they need to go to jail, and hopefully be spayed and neutered as the animals they are so that their god won't make anymore mistakes.

Stupid people, why are they practicing a "Sharia Law", out dated bible verses being practiced by lay people, and taking their choice of which proverb to follow over another. They didn't know it was illegal to torture your children and watch them die...? Damn stupid people...
2017-10-06 06:49:26 AM  
3 votes:

aagrajag: Muzzleloader: lucksi: Both Josh and (Rachel) reached out to friends and fellow church members to come to their home and pray for Abigail's resurrection

Man, some people really need to be allahu akbared...

Also, how is this involuntary manslaughter? Not seeking help isn't an oopsy that just happens.

THIS. These parents knowingly, willfully and deliberately prevented this child from getting live saving medical help.
  That is straight up murder.

IANAL, but I think that legally, murder requires an overt act. This has a ring of "depraved indifference" or the like.

Just nitpicking. This makes me sick.


Negligent manslaughter, if I was a betting person.
2017-10-06 06:47:20 AM  
3 votes:

Muzzleloader: That is straight up murder.


This country has way too much of a "children are property of their parents" mentality for that to happen in all but the most brutal cases.
2017-10-06 06:26:59 AM  
3 votes:
 Then surely they will accept whatever the legal punishment is for this since it is also God's will.

The Lord works in mysterious ways...
2017-10-06 06:20:59 AM  
3 votes:

aagrajag: Critical thinking and faith are mutual enemies.


they CAN be, but it is not a requirement.

well...unless you're evangelical.  ignorance is kind of the point of the whole thing.
2017-10-06 06:10:14 AM  
3 votes:
I guess God really wanted them in prison.  Kind of a dick way to go about that, but...
2017-10-06 03:44:22 PM  
2 votes:

washington-babylon: mrshowrules: FormlessOne: Hilarious. Y'know, the thing that I find most interesting about the concept of a deity is that, for all we know, if such an entity even exists, the only true "act" that entity probably performed was to force a superposition to collapse into a position for the first damned time, ever, by observing it, and that everything that occurred after that was entirely driven by observation, not action.

Of course that God makes no mistakes - He does nothing, good or bad, but merely watches. Perhaps we could wrap a religion around the Prime Observer, and make observation a sacred ritual. Imagine the fun - suddenly, the first true act of the scientific method is also the First Act of the One True Religion. We are made in that God's image because, like God, our act of observation changes both observer and observed, and the more observed the phenomenon, the more influence the observers have upon it - in other words, like God, we, too, can change reality through observation. We develop a catechism that includes all who observe, without discrimination - indeed, "God's creatures" are defined by their ability to effect observation great enough to influence quantum events.

Or, I could just be really bored because I can't sleep and I'm taking a break from writing documentation about open source database implementations.

You are basically referring to deism.  There is also the possibility that God created everything is now just ignoring it.

Or that when God created everything, that really means EVERYTHING. The entirety of space and time. Which means that just because we are trapped inside time following a certain path, God doesn't have to be. To an outside observer from dimensions higher than the ones we observe on a daily basis, "difficult"  things like Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence are trivial things almost not worth even noticing.


When people talk about God being "outside time" (an idea that frequently pops up in pro-God philosophical arguments), I instantly assume that they haven't actually thought about what time is, or really thought through or understood their own ideas completely, and are just making excuses for why other people's objections shouldn't apply to their god.

Being "outside time" is a nonsense idea to my thinking. Time is more than just a dimensional vector in the space-time tensor, it is also a concept that is necessary for such a basic thing as CHANGE.

Do you know how they figured out that neutrinos have mass? They figured out that they could oscillate between "flavors" (i.e. muon -> tau) after being created in the heart of the sun. They can only do this if they move along the time vector, which is to say: they can only do this if they experience the passage of time. This can only happen if they, unlike massless photons which move at the speed of light, DO have mass and therefore move SLOWER than the speed of light.

Now, consider what a diety would be like if they did not exist in space-time and did not experience the passage of time. That diety cannot change in any way: it is a static object. It cannot take actions, or do ANY of the things that are regularly attributed to a god, for instance: creating things. It cannot even have thoughts or emotions, because this implies an internal change. If it cannot have thoughts or emotions then it is certainly not intelligent, not loving, and cannot possibly be omnipotent since it is essentially a frozen idea floating in the ether outside of our universe where it will never affect or be observed by anything.

/There are also good arguments to be made that omnipotence is impossible and that omnipotence and omniscience are mutually exclusive traits even if it weren't.
2017-10-06 03:11:51 PM  
2 votes:

give me doughnuts: Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that

None of today's science stems from that.
Your religion, like most of the others, commands you to accept "God did it." as the ultimate answer to every question.


I'm going to disagree with everyone a bit, here.

doughnuts: LOTS of today's science stems from Islam's collective observations of the natural world. We all owe a great debt to them for the caretaking and building they did for the world's collective knowledge while Europe decided to plunge itself into the ignorance of the dark ages. They made huge advances in medicine, math, and chemistry. You know the chemical process of distillation we love so much, that uses a piece of equipment called an alembic? As in the Anglicized word for al-anbīḳ? Or important mathematical concepts like algebra (al-jabr)? And, in fact, while the Greeks did lots of "natural philosophy" and took the important step of daring to consider ideas that were against their religious beliefs, Muslims were the first to actually codify the scientific method.

Resident Muslim: Simply encouraging observation is not enough. The issue is that they did it with God-colored glasses on. The problem with having faith underlying ones research is that there is a natural tendency to avoid coming to conclusions that undermine that faith. Science is not supposed to carry with it cherished, untouchable beliefs. All ideas must be subject to being thrown out when they are contradicted by evidence. There is no religion that meets that standard.


Resident Muslim: Lady J: Resident Muslim: Lady J: So (I don't know the exact words) women are supposed to be subservient to their husband... there's just no palatable way to say that to a 21st century London woman.

2) you'd be surprised how many 21st century London women would find it platable to hear that the same guy who is responsible for leading the family* is also responsible for its livelihood, including financially and has NO claims to her money whether gained or inherited.

And how many is that, exactly? And how do you know that?

Or you can argue my points that indeed...


OR, how about you address her question?
You're diverting the argument from her main disagreement, which is with the marriage "heirarchy". In response you only offered her the excuse that some significant number of women would actually prefer to have marriage organized that way.

When she asks for justification of the data you just asserted, instead of providing it, you are asking her to respond to what is, in essence, an advertisement for your style of marital arrangement.

The issue at hand is not whether your favored marriage arrangement has merit, the issue is that such an arrangement is prescribed in the first place. And even when arguing on the grounds of whether it has merit, you don't provide any basis for your argument.

All you're actually doing is trying to argue that the current standard of marriage in the western world is inadequate for women. Lots of people would even agree with you. BUT THAT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT FOR THE MUSLIM MARITAL ARRANGEMENT. There are any number of other changes that can be made to make family life better and easier for women without resorting to signing up for the marital dictates of a religion.
2017-10-06 01:20:04 PM  
2 votes:

Weaver95: aagrajag: Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others


actually, there are at least a couple of faiths/religions that demand you study and question the world around you.  Judiasm does, so does neo-paganism and modern heathenry.


If they were effective at studying and questioning the world around them they would no longer be part of that religion though.
2017-10-06 01:16:32 PM  
2 votes:

lack of warmth: If everything was 'perfect', wouldn't life be boring?


The discussion is not about what "we" want but the logic of a perfect being purposely creating imperfection, and if is that even possible.
The mere fact that the universe is not perfect shows the flaws in whatever created it, and if god is not perfect then god cannot be "god".
2017-10-06 01:02:51 PM  
2 votes:
Holy Farking Fark! From the end of TFA: "Both Josh and (Rachel) reached out to friends and fellow church members to come to their home and pray for Abigail's resurrection, but never called the police." !!!

That's just messed up! So their callous inaction led to the death of their baby, then they take the action to call a cycling cavalcade of other ghouls to reanimate the rag-doll dead baby they caused through willful and informed inaction? Is . . is that right? Pretty farking creepy if you ask me.
2017-10-06 12:46:25 PM  
2 votes:
From the Faith Tech Ministries website :

Because we are not associated with any denomination, it is somewhat difficult to fit us into a particular slot. However, we are what many call "full gospel" or "pentecostal" for the reason that, 1) we believe in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as the only means of salvation with God, and 2) that a subsequent experience of receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit is commanded by Jesus in Acts 1:4-5, with the initial physical evidence of speaking in tongues as recorded in Acts 2:4; 10:44-46 and 19:1-6. We also teach a strong holiness message - our lives to be lived free from sin as commanded in I John 2:1 - obedience to the moral government of God as spoken of by Christ in John 14:21-24, and a strong message in the area of divine healing and the operation of the Holy Spirit through each believer with signs and wonders following their ministries.

media.giphy.com
2017-10-06 11:13:51 AM  
2 votes:
Words fail...

There ought to be some kind of test to become parents, besides the Practical Exam, i mean.

 The molecule thin Silver lining I guess, is that the kid won't grow up to be just as stupid as her parents and murder her own child with Faith and Willful Ignorance.  Kind of a stretch.
2017-10-06 11:00:05 AM  
2 votes:

GoldSpider: chuggernaught: Weaver95: christanity is not our friend.

A couple of asshats do something evil so you blame the entire religion?  You're better than that.  That's something a Republican would do.


Nope, his Fark persona has gone full-persecuted.


(points, laughs at GoldSpider)
2017-10-06 10:38:39 AM  
2 votes:

SansNeural: Guadior42: Two of my 3 kids need the bili lights for a brief amount of time. Of course, their mother and I were not complete retarded farkwits and had our babies in modern hospitals, with all the benefits a modern, scientific society could offer.

Yeah, our first child needed the lights for 3 or 4 days.  We brought him home after birth and by the second day we noticed the hue of his skin was scary yellow/orange.

Took him back for a refund, but they shined lights on him instead.  "See?  Good as new!" they said.  Seemed all right so we took him home.  They neglected to tell us that some day he'd be a teenager.


The real disadvantage of having children who look like you is that you cannot blame the hospital for giving you the wrong infant. That's why they do the business with the matching bracelets; so you can't shop for a better kid.

As has been said several times upthread, jaundice is one of the easiest to resolve problems an infant can have (barring severe jaundice or complications from other health issues). There is literally no excuse for this.
2017-10-06 09:52:57 AM  
2 votes:
this may be TMI, but: my marriage ended in a shambles b/c of my wife's infidelity. her brother also wrecked his marriage with adultery. their dad is a bishop in one of the major protestant denominations. you might think that a professional christian would have a word with his children but no, "whatever happens is for the best" because it's god's will. this is, at least, not the christianity i was raised in.
2017-10-06 09:43:14 AM  
2 votes:

cards fan by association: mjjt: If you really want to cause dissension in the ranks, ask "We know God is perfect, and doesn't make mistakes, but if you were God, what would you change about today's world .... ?"

And watch them try to hold two conflicting ideas in their tiny regimented minds

That's an easy one. I was always taught that we, as humans, are unable to comprehend the complexities of God's plans, therefore we are unable to judge his actions and inactions. So your immediate answer would be "I can't answer that." There is also the belief that God gave all entities - like demons and humans - free choice (e.g. the choice to reject God and salvation). All evil in the world is some manifestation of free will. Never mind that God created that rule and is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

/12 years of Parochial school


God didn't want automatons, hence free will.  We're free to make bad decisions like letting our kids die of preventable illness.  We're not free from the consequences.  I hope they are completely and utterly overwhelmed with grief springing from their guilty conscience while spending the rest of their lives in jail.

Remember folks, "I sent you 2 boats and a helicopter".
2017-10-06 09:41:58 AM  
2 votes:

SansNeural: For those who aren't aware, the primary treatment for jaundice in infants is UV light, because it breaks down the bilirubin (responsible for the yellow color) near the surface of the skin.  This can keep the child healthy until their liver can kick in and do the job itself.


Two of my 3 kids need the bili lights for a brief amount of time. Of course, their mother and I were not complete retarded farkwits and had our babies in modern hospitals, with all the benefits a modern, scientific society could offer.

/also, we are believers
//in God AND Science.
///yes it's possible
2017-10-06 09:08:21 AM  
2 votes:

Resident Muslim: Lady J: Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that

Hmm. I got handed a bunch of literature on Islam recently, which I've glanced over.

The stuff actually makes a genuine effort to reconcile some of the traditional teaching of the faith, with 21st century society. And it's articulate and interesting, but there comes a point, where two conflicting beliefs meet, where they just have to fudge it. So (I don't know the exact words) women are supposed to be subservient to their husband... there's just no palatable way to say that to a 21st century London woman. So they just fudge it, with a lot of handwaving. And the science booklet is the same.

1) watered-down religion to gain respect is never respected
2) you'd be surprised how many 21st century London women would find it platable to hear that the same guy who is responsible for leading the family* is also responsible for its livelihood, including financially and has NO claims to her money whether gained or inherited. I remember reading a western woman's reaction stating "I would LOVE to be only responsible for raising my child (and taking care of the household)." Her qualm was modern-day society expects women to be breadwinners in addition to the men...and guess what, they are ALSO responsible for most of the childcare duties and taking care of the household. That's most married couples whether we like it or not. Let's not kid ourselves.

/son of a feminist, grandson to a woman entrepreneur whose husband had no claim to her money
//*Leadership, true leadership is not dictatorship
///a lot of people read something such as "a woman who does not respond to her husband's call to the marriage bed and he goes to sleep angry at her, is cursed by angels until dawn" and read subservient. It's funny that they don't notice that this same passage is actually also saying IT IS HER DECISION and the man cannot force her!

////still sucks when it happens. From my side, I do try to clear my heart so that I don't sleep angry at her.
//My love


Modern-day women need to be breadwinners, because there is insufficient safety net for the average family, and a single-income family will collapse quickly.
2017-10-06 08:56:16 AM  
2 votes:
For those who aren't aware, the primary treatment for jaundice in infants is UV light, because it breaks down the bilirubin (responsible for the yellow color) near the surface of the skin.  This can keep the child healthy until their liver can kick in and do the job itself.
2017-10-06 07:41:38 AM  
2 votes:

cherryl taggart: God doesn't make mistakes, but since you two are not God, you have free will.  You used your free will to make multiple mistakes.  Accept that you are not God, and you screwed up.  Ignorance and stupidity should hurt.  The only thing I can take away from this, is that one little soul is no long at risk of additional neglect or outright abuse.  I wish there were some way to also have a go at their leader as well.  Sadly, unless a prosecutor can figure out how to term this as some late form of abortion, the evangelical jury of peers will not bat an eye.  Figure out how to make it a form of abortion, and this couple gets life in jail.


A perfect god does not create imperfect creatures, then lament their imperfection and the suffering that is its inevitable result.

Unless, of course, "perfect" implies "evil".
2017-10-06 07:38:23 AM  
2 votes:
God doesn't make mistakes, but since you two are not God, you have free will.  You used your free will to make multiple mistakes.  Accept that you are not God, and you screwed up.  Ignorance and stupidity should hurt.  The only thing I can take away from this, is that one little soul is no long at risk of additional neglect or outright abuse.  I wish there were some way to also have a go at their leader as well.  Sadly, unless a prosecutor can figure out how to term this as some late form of abortion, the evangelical jury of peers will not bat an eye.  Figure out how to make it a form of abortion, and this couple gets life in jail.
2017-10-06 07:15:35 AM  
2 votes:

kbronsito: Despite the fact Abigail wasn't eating properly and coughed up blood, the detective said Ms Piland put the two-day-year old child "near a window wearing just a diaper utilizing a hair dryer to keep her warm".

If God doesn't make mistakes, then why use a hair dryer to warn the baby? Room temperature and the sun should had been enough. That baby died because these idolaters placed their faith on their fancy machine instead of the lord. Well, looks like their golden calf was just full of hot air.


That's really summarizing the duality.
You believe in using hairdryers, but somehow medicine is evil?!
2017-10-06 06:56:08 AM  
2 votes:

Gleeman: backhand.slap.of.reason: mjjt: Apparently he made lots of mistakes

Three Whom God Should Not Have Created: Persians, Jews, and Flies  is an anti-Iranian and anti-semitic Iraqi government[citation needed] pamphlet widely published during the era of Saddam Hussein.
The author, Khairallah Talfah, was an Iraqi Ba'ath Party official, and the maternal uncle and father-in-law of Saddam Hussein. He first wrote the ten-page pamphlet in 1940.
In 1981, following the start of the Iran-Iraq War, the Iraqi government publishing house Dar al-Hurriyya (Abode of Liberty) republished it, and the Iraqi Ministry of Education distributed the propaganda as part of a textbook for school-children.
The work describes Persians as "animals God created in the shape of humans", Jews as a "mixture of dirt and the leftovers of diverse people",[1] and flies as poor misunderstood creatures "whom we do not understand God's purpose in creating".[2][3] According to Con Coughlin, "This weak Iraqi attempt at imitating Mein Kampf nevertheless had a bearing on Saddam's future policymaking. As president of Iraq, Saddam's foreign policy was determined by his hatred of the Persians, or Iranians as they are better known, and the Israelis."[2] To put it more soberly, Iraq competed militarily with Pahlavi Iran to its east and Israel to its west, and was perceived by both countries to be an existential threat, until Saddam settled his differences with Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi through the 1975 Algiers Agreement.
Saddam Hussein had the book's title phrase etched into a plaque he kept on his desk.[4]

Feel free to append the list

Want Persia modern day Iraq?

Iran.

IRT TFA: looks like our mental health system failed yet again.


What system?
2017-10-06 06:50:07 AM  
2 votes:

Bowen: Muzzleloader: That is straight up murder.

This country has way too much of a "children are property of their parents" mentality for that to happen in all but the most brutal cases.

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts, 
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, 
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, 
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, 
and He bends you with His might 
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies, 
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

2017-10-06 06:48:15 AM  
2 votes:

swamp_of_dumb: FormlessOne: <My ramblings, omitted for brevity>

You can tell a member of the Church of the All-seeing Eye by their departure salutation.

[img.fark.net image 425x315]


Heh. Gotta love a relevant Prisoner reference...
2017-10-06 06:28:14 AM  
2 votes:
Ummm...anyone know anything about their"church" mentioned in the article?

"Faith Tech ministries" sounds pretty cult-y to me.

Didn't Scientology use similar legal terminology? Belief technology or something?
2017-10-06 06:23:12 AM  
2 votes:
It sounds like police are involved, but is this a crime?

Don't get me wrong, it farking should be, but it's not in the US is it, because of religious freedumb bollocks?
2017-10-06 07:52:51 PM  
1 vote:
Yep.  God wants you in jail.
2017-10-06 05:54:41 PM  
1 vote:

Resident Muslim: What you are saying, is, let me get this straight, that "traditional marriages" where men are the breadwinners and women take care of the household is a Muslim thing?


Nooo no no no no. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was only a Muslim thing. It's hugely widespread, Christianity included. We were talking specifically about the literature that Lady received about Islam, and your response to it as a Muslim, which is where that came from. But yes, you are absolutely correct that it is an idea that is virtually everywhere, including here in the U.S..

Women are still in the process of throwing off those chains. I think that the extra responsibilities like housework that women take on are because they haven't finished getting out from under the rules of traditional marriages. Getting back underneath them is not the way to address it.
2017-10-06 05:46:35 PM  
1 vote:

Resident Muslim: You mentioned lack of data, though did not provide data on where Muslim scientists had mental blocks due to faith.


I'm not certain that anyone has tried to collect such data, especially not specifically on Muslims (the proposal itself would probably be considered controversial), nor even tried to define what such data would look like.

The point was more that, fundamentally, a religion IS, itself, an elaborate conclusion about the nature of the universe that has sprang up without relying on any underlying data. The idea that such an organization should be a paragon of honest scientific inquiry is a bit laughable.

This does not mean that Muslims cannot be scientists, or even that it is impossible for them to come to conclusions that contradict their faith. But, if they do, just like any Christian scientist, they are probably compartmentalizing their beliefs, or simply not thinking about their implications for each other. In other words their faith is, at best, irrelevant to the process of scientific inquiry.


Resident Muslim: So here are links to women working yet STILL putting in more time than men in the household:


You didn't actually answer what she asked, which is how you know that "a surprising number of women would prefer" a Muslim-style marriage arrangement. All you did was show that women do more household work than men. This leads me to think that you're still missing the point.

What you say is true, and a problem. But this doesn't immediately lead to the conclusion that most women would want a Muslim marriage arrangement. I would estimate that they DON'T.

It was suggested to you that Muslim marriage is undesirable because it makes women subservient to men.
In response, you did not make an argument for why this isn't true. Instead you only presented a problem with modern "western" marriages. Obviously you believe the implication is that Muslim marriages are better because they don't have this problem.

But a Muslim marriage is not the only solution to that problem, and it comes with problems of its own. Did it occur to you that women in the western world decades ago HAD that exact same arrangement in Christian marriages, which ALSO suggest that women should be subservient in exchange for only dealing with children+housework instead of children+housework+making money? The reason we are where we are now is because that ISN'T a satisfactory arrangement.

To be sure, we haven't gotten it right yet. But there are other solutions to the problem you're presenting besides being like Muslims. The problem you present does not lead inexorably to the conclusion that you want us to get to. There are other ways to fix things besides women having to exchange social freedom for fewer responsibilities.
2017-10-06 03:14:13 PM  
1 vote:

lack of warmth: We as humans create games with struggles and challenges built right in, why would the world not be created with challenges as well


Yet if we were created by a perfect being we and this universe would have been created perfectly. Therefore we would not create problems for ourselves. Says right in Genesis that humans were originally perfect, then this creator purposely introduces imperfection along with the catalyst for that imperfection in a fallen "angel"/temptation.

The humans were set up to fail from before day one by an omnipotent (Jeremiah 32:27), omnipresent (Proverbs 15:3), omniscient (Matthew 24:36) being who knew when, where and how humans would fail its test before the test, yet tested them anyway. For what purpose?

If humans were perfect they would not have fallen for this trick. They weren't, and were tempted... god made imperfection - a mistake. Only perfection can be called "god", so this god cannot be god if it is not perfect.
2017-10-06 12:38:08 PM  
1 vote:

Aidan: FormlessOne: Or, I could just be really bored because I can't sleep and I'm taking a break from writing documentation about open source database implementations.

I would say that frustration with the mystery of the workings of the universe has a tendency to cause religions to form, so definitely take a break from studying open source database implementations for a while. :)


I'm staring at PostgreSQL and hit the WAL, so to speak. I swear to the Prime Observer, if I see one more log implementation, I'm gonna go back to babysitting AS/400s just out of spite.
2017-10-06 12:34:18 PM  
1 vote:

johnphantom: FormlessOne: Hilarious. Y'know, the thing that I find most interesting about the concept of a deity is that, for all we know, if such an entity even exists, the only true "act" that entity probably performed was to force a superposition to collapse into a position for the first damned time, ever, by observing it, and that everything that occurred after that was entirely driven by observation, not action.

Of course that God makes no mistakes - He does nothing, good or bad, but merely watches. Perhaps we could wrap a religion around the Prime Observer, and make observation a sacred ritual. Imagine the fun - suddenly, the first true act of the scientific method is also the First Act of the One True Religion. We are made in that God's image because, like God, our act of observation changes both observer and observed, and the more observed the phenomenon, the more influence the observers have upon it - in other words, like God, we, too, can change reality through observation. We develop a catechism that includes all who observe, without discrimination - indeed, "God's creatures" are defined by their ability to effect observation great enough to influence quantum events.

Or, I could just be really bored because I can't sleep and I'm taking a break from writing documentation about open source database implementations.

You might get a kick out of my profile... just a suggestion.


You're not wrong.
2017-10-06 11:48:57 AM  
1 vote:

mjjt: If you really want to cause dissension in the ranks, ask "We know God is perfect, and doesn't make mistakes, but if you were God, what would you change about today's world .... ?"

And watch them try to hold two conflicting ideas in their tiny regimented minds


Or what I asked my churchgoing stepmother once: If god is perfect then all that they created would have to be perfect... but we are not. Would god purposely create imperfection even if it could, and why? And if the creation of imperfection is on purpose, then why are these imperfect beings punished for being imperfect?

There's usually a couple of "god's wills" thrown out, then nothing.
2017-10-06 11:48:47 AM  
1 vote:

WickerNipple: A rowboat, a powerboat, and a helicopter.


Thank you for making sure this got referenced, as it's really the only relevant wisdom required.  As per Fark tradition, leaving satsified.
2017-10-06 11:48:40 AM  
1 vote:

trappedspirit: Newborn with jaundice dies after parents refuse treatment saying 'God makes no mistakes'
Rachel Joy Piland, from Michigan, told the midwife "God makes no mistakes", according to a police detective who testified in court last week.
Detective Peter Scaccia said: "Rachel declined to seek any medical treatment for Abigail, stating God makes no mistakes. She indicated to the midwife that the baby was fine."

But still, I wonder if she said anything to try and offer up a justification for her inaction?  Like even some simple phrase to encapsulate and represent her philosophical stance.

But seriously, does anyone here know the difference between "refusing treatment" and ":not seeking treatment"?  Anyone?  Bueller?  English language?

/splitting hares


"Refusing treatment" implies an evaluation by a medical professional, and treatment offered but rejected.  In the cases of some life-threatening illnesses, medical professionals may override a treatment refusal and save a person's life.

"Not seeking treatment" means you never went to a doctor in the first place.  Implies more neglect than an action.
2017-10-06 11:47:27 AM  
1 vote:
And God said "I sent you 3 different social workers to take the kid to the hospital, what more do you want me to do?"
2017-10-06 11:30:33 AM  
1 vote:
Maybe god makes no mistakes, but you sure as fark did.
2017-10-06 11:26:42 AM  
1 vote:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts, 
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, 
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, 
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, 
and He bends you with His might 
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies, 
so He loves also the bow that is stable.


Great poem, but I had to google it because you didn't cite the author. Kahlil Gibran, if anyone is wondering. (The whole "children as arrows" metaphor is pretty weird and violent - also used in the Bible, which some people use to interpret as "arrows in God's army" and justification for having eleventy jillion kids: "Happy is he who has a quiver full of them." Yikes.)
2017-10-06 10:57:21 AM  
1 vote:

Lady J: Resident Muslim: Lady J: Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that

Hmm. I got handed a bunch of literature on Islam recently, which I've glanced over.

The stuff actually makes a genuine effort to reconcile some of the traditional teaching of the faith, with 21st century society. And it's articulate and interesting, but there comes a point, where two conflicting beliefs meet, where they just have to fudge it. So (I don't know the exact words) women are supposed to be subservient to their husband... there's just no palatable way to say that to a 21st century London woman. So they just fudge it, with a lot of handwaving. And the science booklet is the same.

1) watered-down religion to gain respect is never respected
2) you'd be surprised how many 21st century London women would find it platable to hear that the same guy who is responsible for leading the family* is also responsible for its livelihood, including financially and has NO claims to her money whether gained or inherited. I remember reading a western woman's reaction stating "I would LOVE to be only responsible for raising my child (and taking care of the household)." Her qualm was modern-day society expects women to be breadwinners in addition to the men...and guess what, they are ALSO responsible for most of the childcare duties and taking care of the household. That's most married couples whether we like it or not. Let's not kid ...

And how many is that, exactly? And how do you know that?


Or you can argue my points that indeed 1)women are working (at least) the same number of hours 2) and do more of the housework 3) and do more of the child care. 4) AND still expected to put the money into the family account

/my thanks and gratitude to women everywhere who do this.
// I also believe they don't have to, and get "brownie points" when they help their husbands out
///I'm not even going to get into the discussion of whether it is bological vs social norms that define this
////also, feel free to ask your female friends. Especially mothers how they feel about what I said. Especially with younger kids. If you have a predominantly female group on WhatsApp mention that this guy on the net said this, how do you feel about that
2017-10-06 10:50:18 AM  
1 vote:

rebelyell2006: Resident Muslim: Lady J: Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that

Hmm. I got handed a bunch of literature on Islam recently, which I've glanced over.

The stuff actually makes a genuine effort to reconcile some of the traditional teaching of the faith, with 21st century society. And it's articulate and interesting, but there comes a point, where two conflicting beliefs meet, where they just have to fudge it. So (I don't know the exact words) women are supposed to be subservient to their husband... there's just no palatable way to say that to a 21st century London woman. So they just fudge it, with a lot of handwaving. And the science booklet is the same.

1) watered-down religion to gain respect is never respected
2) you'd be surprised how many 21st century London women would find it platable to hear that the same guy who is responsible for leading the family* is also responsible for its livelihood, including financially and has NO claims to her money whether gained or inherited. I remember reading a western woman's reaction stating "I would LOVE to be only responsible for raising my child (and taking care of the household)." Her qualm was modern-day society expects women to be breadwinners in addition to the men...and guess what, they are ALSO responsible for most of the childcare duties and taking care of the household. That's most married couples whether we like it or not. Let's not kid ourselves.

/son of a feminist, grandson to a woman entrepreneur whose husband had no claim to her money
//*Leadership, true leadership is not dictatorship
///a lot of people read something such as "a woman who does not respond to her husband's call to the marriage bed and he goes to sleep angry at her, is cursed by angels until dawn" and read subservient. It's funny that they don't notice that this same passage is actually also saying IT IS HER DECISION and the man cannot force her!

////still sucks when it happens. From my side, I do try to clear my heart so that I don't sleep angry at her.
//My love

Modern-day women need to be breadwinners, because there is insufficient safety net for the average family, and a single-income family will collapse quickly.


I swear to God I once read a study that I've tried googling but could not find again.
I KNOW I wasn't dreaming. Maybe one of you guys has better Google-fu than I.
It was about income of dual income vs single income over time.
The result was that right off the bat, dual income was literally double single income.
The thing is that as time progressed, the single earner started growing at a higher rate and then surpassed the dual income.
I can't remember if it was mentioned in the article (I think it was Forbes or Fortune) or if I assumed this, but the single earner was more focused on the job, could afford to give more time and as available for extra work coming from the boss, knowing that someone was holding the fort back at home.
This translates to more job responsibilities, more dependability from the boss and  therefore more promotions.
Compared to dual income households where housework and childcare is divided equally.

/capitalism and specialization, how do they work
//someone please find the study for me. It's been years
///my tinfoil says it's repressed to keep the cogs in the machine
2017-10-06 10:26:49 AM  
1 vote:
Jaundice is highly treatable...only the barely there numbers will nursing and the sun will help. The more extreme will require the UV lights. My son luckily just need to eat and sunbeam, but hey I also made sure to take him back to the hospital within 5 days to make sure his numbers had decreased. That's what responsible parents do.
/these people are not Christian
2017-10-06 10:25:38 AM  
1 vote:

washington-babylon: Or that when God created everything, that really means EVERYTHING. The entirety of space and time. Which means that just because we are trapped inside time following a certain path, God doesn't have to be. To an outside observer from dimensions higher than the ones we observe on a daily basis, "difficult"  things like Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence are trivial things almost not worth even noticing.


That's interesting.  He might have create our past, present, future all in once instant and then put it on a shelf and moved-on to something else.  Than another god comes around and says - what's that there on the shelf.  Nothing - just something I created when I was really high.
2017-10-06 10:21:37 AM  
1 vote:
God makes no mistakes?  Well apparently the AllMighty wants you two dumbfarks in jail.

/His will be done
2017-10-06 10:13:38 AM  
1 vote:

Guadior42: Two of my 3 kids need the bili lights for a brief amount of time. Of course, their mother and I were not complete retarded farkwits and had our babies in modern hospitals, with all the benefits a modern, scientific society could offer.


Yeah, our first child needed the lights for 3 or 4 days.  We brought him home after birth and by the second day we noticed the hue of his skin was scary yellow/orange.

Took him back for a refund, but they shined lights on him instead.  "See?  Good as new!" they said.  Seemed all right so we took him home.  They neglected to tell us that some day he'd be a teenager.
2017-10-06 09:44:00 AM  
1 vote:
Those parents wanted that baby to die. :(
2017-10-06 09:13:36 AM  
1 vote:

mjjt: If you really want to cause dissension in the ranks, ask "We know God is perfect, and doesn't make mistakes, but if you were God, what would you change about today's world .... ?"

And watch them try to hold two conflicting ideas in their tiny regimented minds


That's an easy one. I was always taught that we, as humans, are unable to comprehend the complexities of God's plans, therefore we are unable to judge his actions and inactions. So your immediate answer would be "I can't answer that." There is also the belief that God gave all entities - like demons and humans - free choice (e.g. the choice to reject God and salvation). All evil in the world is some manifestation of free will. Never mind that God created that rule and is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

/12 years of Parochial school
2017-10-06 09:05:56 AM  
1 vote:
"God sent this hurricane and destroyed out town and killed my wife. But he left this cross in the rubble to remind us how much he is thinking of us during this disaster. Isn't God great? Imagine how much worse this could have been if God wasn't looking out for us!"
2017-10-06 09:02:34 AM  
1 vote:

FormlessOne: Of course that God makes no mistakes - He does nothing, good or bad, but merely watches. Perhaps we could wrap a religion around the Prime Observer, and make observation a sacred ritual. Imagine the fun - suddenly, the first true act of the scientific method is also the First Act of the One True Religion. We are made in that God's image because, like God, our act of observation changes both observer and observed, and the more observed the phenomenon, the more influence the observers have upon it - in other words, like God, we, too, can change reality through observation. We develop a catechism that includes all who observe, without discrimination - indeed, "God's creatures" are defined by their ability to effect observation great enough to influence quantum events.


img.fark.net
2017-10-06 09:01:41 AM  
1 vote:

big pig peaches: This is a condition that can literally be treated by shining light on the baby. I believe even bright sunlight can help.

 Ultraviolet light.
2017-10-06 08:50:52 AM  
1 vote:

Resident Muslim: kbronsito: Despite the fact Abigail wasn't eating properly and coughed up blood, the detective said Ms Piland put the two-day-year old child "near a window wearing just a diaper utilizing a hair dryer to keep her warm".

If God doesn't make mistakes, then why use a hair dryer to warn the baby? Room temperature and the sun should had been enough. That baby died because these idolaters placed their faith on their fancy machine instead of the lord. Well, looks like their golden calf was just full of hot air.

That's really summarizing the duality.
You believe in using hairdryers, but somehow medicine is evil?!


They were *almost* there with the window.  They could have rented a UV light crib from a medical supply house, but they probably didn't know that.  A doctor could have told them, though.
2017-10-06 08:35:25 AM  
1 vote:

Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that


None of today's science stems from that.
Your religion, like most of the others, commands you to accept "God did it." as the ultimate answer to every question.
2017-10-06 08:21:29 AM  
1 vote:

Lady J: Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that

Hmm. I got handed a bunch of literature on Islam recently, which I've glanced over.

The stuff actually makes a genuine effort to reconcile some of the traditional teaching of the faith, with 21st century society. And it's articulate and interesting, but there comes a point, where two conflicting beliefs meet, where they just have to fudge it. So (I don't know the exact words) women are supposed to be subservient to their husband... there's just no palatable way to say that to a 21st century London woman. So they just fudge it, with a lot of handwaving. And the science booklet is the same.


1) watered-down religion to gain respect is never respected
2) you'd be surprised how many 21st century London women would find it platable to hear that the same guy who is responsible for leading the family* is also responsible for its livelihood, including financially and has NO claims to her money whether gained or inherited. I remember reading a western woman's reaction stating "I would LOVE to be only responsible for raising my child (and taking care of the household)." Her qualm was modern-day society expects women to be breadwinners in addition to the men...and guess what, they are ALSO responsible for most of the childcare duties and taking care of the household. That's most married couples whether we like it or not. Let's not kid ourselves.

/son of a feminist, grandson to a woman entrepreneur whose husband had no claim to her money
//*Leadership, true leadership is not dictatorship
///a lot of people read something such as "a woman who does not respond to her husband's call to the marriage bed and he goes to sleep angry at her, is cursed by angels until dawn" and read subservient. It's funny that they don't notice that this same passage is actually also saying IT IS HER DECISION and the man cannot force her!

////still sucks when it happens. From my side, I do try to clear my heart so that I don't sleep angry at her.
//My love
2017-10-06 07:53:14 AM  
1 vote:
Fine with me. God also wants them to spend the next 15-20 in prison.
2017-10-06 07:50:25 AM  
1 vote:

Resident Muslim: Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.


And the Catholic church has no problem with either the Big Bang Theory or evolution. It's fundamentalists who are the problem, not religion.
2017-10-06 07:48:44 AM  
1 vote:

Weaver95: FormlessOne: Hilarious. Y'know, the thing that I find most interesting about the concept of a deity is that, for all we know, if such an entity even exists, the only true "act" that entity probably performed was to force a superposition to collapse into a position for the first damned time, ever, by observing it, and that everything that occurred after that was entirely driven by observation, not action.

i've never understood why the christians tried to claim their god was all knowing and all powerful.  their religion is pretty late to the game....its been around what?  2000 years AT MOST?  less than that even, depending on how you count and which splinter sect we're talking about.  I could maybe see it if the christians just said their god was 'powerful'.  ok, sure.  I can go with that.  but 'all knowing/all powerful'?  c'mon.  that's just not ever going to make sense.


Let me help.

Christians (and coincidentally Jews) beleive the Bible predates in Genesis to the beginning of time "if such an entity even exists"

It doesn't take brains to make a baby, and this is proof. They could also, for all we know, have lost a kid thanks to Donnie Imus and his anti-vaccine crusade
2017-10-06 07:27:23 AM  
1 vote:

Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that


Hmm. I got handed a bunch of literature on Islam recently, which I've glanced over.

The stuff actually makes a genuine effort to reconcile some of the traditional teaching of the faith, with 21st century society. And it's articulate and interesting, but there comes a point, where two conflicting beliefs meet, where they just have to fudge it. So (I don't know the exact words) women are supposed to be subservient to their husband... there's just no palatable way to say that to a 21st century London woman. So they just fudge it, with a lot of handwaving. And the science booklet is the same.
2017-10-06 07:06:49 AM  
1 vote:

Smoking GNU: Lady J: It sounds like police are involved, but is this a crime?

Don't get me wrong, it farking should be, but it's not in the US is it, because of religious freedumb bollocks?

Depends on state law. Bunch of states allow this to go unpunished if it occurs due to parents' sincerely held beliefs.


That's what I thought. I remember some years ago reading about a couple who let a kid die, then a couple of years later let a second kid die.

I don't think there were any legal consequences.

/blood for the blood god etc etc
2017-10-06 07:02:06 AM  
1 vote:
As Omar, the second Caliph after Mohammed (peace be upon him), was about to enter a city, they realized the people there were stricken with leprosy, iirc. So he decided not to enter the city.
Another of the Prophet's companions said to him "Do you flee from God's fate?!"
He replied "Yes, I flee from God's fate...to God's fate."
2017-10-06 07:00:14 AM  
1 vote:
We have to stop that evil bastard before he kills us all!
Man in the Sky Causes Everything
Youtube RlX0Fk-701Q
2017-10-06 06:49:47 AM  
1 vote:
Weaver95: christanity humanity is not our friend. FTFY
2017-10-06 06:46:51 AM  
1 vote:

Muzzleloader: lucksi: Both Josh and (Rachel) reached out to friends and fellow church members to come to their home and pray for Abigail's resurrection

Man, some people really need to be allahu akbared...

Also, how is this involuntary manslaughter? Not seeking help isn't an oopsy that just happens.

THIS. These parents knowingly, willfully and deliberately prevented this child from getting live saving medical help.
  That is straight up murder.


IANAL, but I think that legally, murder requires an overt act. This has a ring of "depraved indifference" or the like.

Just nitpicking. This makes me sick.
2017-10-06 06:44:27 AM  
1 vote:
Despite the fact Abigail wasn't eating properly and coughed up blood, the detective said Ms Piland put the two-day-year old child "near a window wearing just a diaper utilizing a hair dryer to keep her warm".

If God doesn't make mistakes, then why use a hair dryer to warn the baby? Room temperature and the sun should had been enough. That baby died because these idolaters placed their faith on their fancy machine instead of the lord. Well, looks like their golden calf was just full of hot air.
2017-10-06 06:31:57 AM  
1 vote:

Lady J: It sounds like police are involved, but is this a crime?

Don't get me wrong, it farking should be, but it's not in the US is it, because of religious freedumb bollocks?


This took place in Michagan.
2017-10-06 06:23:37 AM  
1 vote:

Weaver95: aagrajag: Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others

actually, there are at least a couple of faiths/religions that demand you study and question the world around you.  Judiasm does, so does neo-paganism and modern heathenry.  eastern religions too I believe, although I couldn't cite specific examples.

islam and christanity tho, they built their political, social and economic power base on creating and maintaining fear, ignorance and unquestioning obedience.


You have to be careful of some of the Heathen groups, though. On the surface they seem perfectly reasonable and inclusive, with a questioning nate, as you said. But there are at least a few that have been virtually taken over by white supremacists, and are merely a vehicle for recruiting anymore.

/Got to be careful about banging the 'Hot Pagan Chick'
//Her friends might be bald and want to talk about the good word of Hitler with you.
///Friday Slashies
2017-10-06 06:23:13 AM  
1 vote:
Good, fark both of them.
2017-10-06 06:15:18 AM  
1 vote:
Yeah, stupid parents. You're only allowed to ignore your kids and allow them to die if they are over 5 years old and not in a hot car.
2017-10-06 06:12:32 AM  
1 vote:

Ambivalence: I guess God really wanted them in prison.  Kind of a dick way to go about that, but...


"Mysterious way... blah blah blah"

There is no God, and if there is - or She isn't just the forces around us we call Nature - then He's a right bastard.
 
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