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(Irish Independent)   Parents charged with manslaughter after newborn dies from treatable jaundice because parents refused to seek medical help. Their excuse? "God makes no mistakes"   ( independent.ie) divider line
    More: Sick, Ms Piland, Detective Peter Scaccia, Pediatrics, medical examiner, Faith Tech Ministries, Medicine, two-day-year old child, fellow church members  
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5134 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Oct 2017 at 6:04 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-10-06 09:04:13 AM  
Hard to blame a conditioned since birth idiot for being an idiot. Some people are born with a lessened ability to function in the world... Look at trump.
 
2017-10-06 09:04:22 AM  

WDFark think for a second: Ummm...anyone know anything about their"church" mentioned in the article?

"Faith Tech ministries" sounds pretty cult-y to me.


Looking at their page, looks like a generic Holiness / Pentecostal group that isn't afraid of the Internet like some of the more traditional ones. So yes, if not an actual cult, very culty.

/Grow up Foursquare
//The founder was known in the 20s for using radio and actually had one of the first commercial stations in LA
///She was also known for faking her own kidnapping
 
2017-10-06 09:05:56 AM  
"God sent this hurricane and destroyed out town and killed my wife. But he left this cross in the rubble to remind us how much he is thinking of us during this disaster. Isn't God great? Imagine how much worse this could have been if God wasn't looking out for us!"
 
2017-10-06 09:08:05 AM  

Weaver95: christanity is not our friend.


Mindless, overly-idealized, fundamentalist Christianity with no accountability for personal responsibility is not our friend. True, selfless, intelligent Christianity is a different thing altogether, and can serve as a great moral compass and comfort.

/please don't label "intelligent Christianity" as an oxymoron

//Just my opinion, Mr. Weaver.  Mad respect for you and your contributions to this site.
 
2017-10-06 09:08:21 AM  

Resident Muslim: Lady J: Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that

Hmm. I got handed a bunch of literature on Islam recently, which I've glanced over.

The stuff actually makes a genuine effort to reconcile some of the traditional teaching of the faith, with 21st century society. And it's articulate and interesting, but there comes a point, where two conflicting beliefs meet, where they just have to fudge it. So (I don't know the exact words) women are supposed to be subservient to their husband... there's just no palatable way to say that to a 21st century London woman. So they just fudge it, with a lot of handwaving. And the science booklet is the same.

1) watered-down religion to gain respect is never respected
2) you'd be surprised how many 21st century London women would find it platable to hear that the same guy who is responsible for leading the family* is also responsible for its livelihood, including financially and has NO claims to her money whether gained or inherited. I remember reading a western woman's reaction stating "I would LOVE to be only responsible for raising my child (and taking care of the household)." Her qualm was modern-day society expects women to be breadwinners in addition to the men...and guess what, they are ALSO responsible for most of the childcare duties and taking care of the household. That's most married couples whether we like it or not. Let's not kid ourselves.

/son of a feminist, grandson to a woman entrepreneur whose husband had no claim to her money
//*Leadership, true leadership is not dictatorship
///a lot of people read something such as "a woman who does not respond to her husband's call to the marriage bed and he goes to sleep angry at her, is cursed by angels until dawn" and read subservient. It's funny that they don't notice that this same passage is actually also saying IT IS HER DECISION and the man cannot force her!

////still sucks when it happens. From my side, I do try to clear my heart so that I don't sleep angry at her.
//My love


Modern-day women need to be breadwinners, because there is insufficient safety net for the average family, and a single-income family will collapse quickly.
 
2017-10-06 09:13:36 AM  

mjjt: If you really want to cause dissension in the ranks, ask "We know God is perfect, and doesn't make mistakes, but if you were God, what would you change about today's world .... ?"

And watch them try to hold two conflicting ideas in their tiny regimented minds


That's an easy one. I was always taught that we, as humans, are unable to comprehend the complexities of God's plans, therefore we are unable to judge his actions and inactions. So your immediate answer would be "I can't answer that." There is also the belief that God gave all entities - like demons and humans - free choice (e.g. the choice to reject God and salvation). All evil in the world is some manifestation of free will. Never mind that God created that rule and is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

/12 years of Parochial school
 
2017-10-06 09:28:39 AM  

Resident Muslim: Lady J: Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that

Hmm. I got handed a bunch of literature on Islam recently, which I've glanced over.

The stuff actually makes a genuine effort to reconcile some of the traditional teaching of the faith, with 21st century society. And it's articulate and interesting, but there comes a point, where two conflicting beliefs meet, where they just have to fudge it. So (I don't know the exact words) women are supposed to be subservient to their husband... there's just no palatable way to say that to a 21st century London woman. So they just fudge it, with a lot of handwaving. And the science booklet is the same.

1) watered-down religion to gain respect is never respected
2) you'd be surprised how many 21st century London women would find it platable to hear that the same guy who is responsible for leading the family* is also responsible for its livelihood, including financially and has NO claims to her money whether gained or inherited. I remember reading a western woman's reaction stating "I would LOVE to be only responsible for raising my child (and taking care of the household)." Her qualm was modern-day society expects women to be breadwinners in addition to the men...and guess what, they are ALSO responsible for most of the childcare duties and taking care of the household. That's most married couples whether we like it or not. Let's not kid ...


And how many is that, exactly? And how do you know that?
 
2017-10-06 09:34:11 AM  
Your right to swing your arms around ends where another human being's nose begins.

Your religious right ends where another human being's right to live and not suffer any more than necessary begins.
 
2017-10-06 09:41:58 AM  

SansNeural: For those who aren't aware, the primary treatment for jaundice in infants is UV light, because it breaks down the bilirubin (responsible for the yellow color) near the surface of the skin.  This can keep the child healthy until their liver can kick in and do the job itself.


Two of my 3 kids need the bili lights for a brief amount of time. Of course, their mother and I were not complete retarded farkwits and had our babies in modern hospitals, with all the benefits a modern, scientific society could offer.

/also, we are believers
//in God AND Science.
///yes it's possible
 
2017-10-06 09:43:14 AM  

cards fan by association: mjjt: If you really want to cause dissension in the ranks, ask "We know God is perfect, and doesn't make mistakes, but if you were God, what would you change about today's world .... ?"

And watch them try to hold two conflicting ideas in their tiny regimented minds

That's an easy one. I was always taught that we, as humans, are unable to comprehend the complexities of God's plans, therefore we are unable to judge his actions and inactions. So your immediate answer would be "I can't answer that." There is also the belief that God gave all entities - like demons and humans - free choice (e.g. the choice to reject God and salvation). All evil in the world is some manifestation of free will. Never mind that God created that rule and is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

/12 years of Parochial school


God didn't want automatons, hence free will.  We're free to make bad decisions like letting our kids die of preventable illness.  We're not free from the consequences.  I hope they are completely and utterly overwhelmed with grief springing from their guilty conscience while spending the rest of their lives in jail.

Remember folks, "I sent you 2 boats and a helicopter".
 
2017-10-06 09:44:00 AM  
Those parents wanted that baby to die. :(
 
2017-10-06 09:48:23 AM  
Someone should ask them if they are cool with late term abortions since they killed their baby. Just to watch their heads explode, of course.
 
2017-10-06 09:52:35 AM  

FormlessOne: Hilarious. Y'know, the thing that I find most interesting about the concept of a deity is that, for all we know, if such an entity even exists, the only true "act" that entity probably performed was to force a superposition to collapse into a position for the first damned time, ever, by observing it, and that everything that occurred after that was entirely driven by observation, not action.

Of course that God makes no mistakes - He does nothing, good or bad, but merely watches. Perhaps we could wrap a religion around the Prime Observer, and make observation a sacred ritual. Imagine the fun - suddenly, the first true act of the scientific method is also the First Act of the One True Religion. We are made in that God's image because, like God, our act of observation changes both observer and observed, and the more observed the phenomenon, the more influence the observers have upon it - in other words, like God, we, too, can change reality through observation. We develop a catechism that includes all who observe, without discrimination - indeed, "God's creatures" are defined by their ability to effect observation great enough to influence quantum events.

Or, I could just be really bored because I can't sleep and I'm taking a break from writing documentation about open source database implementations.


You are basically referring to deism.  There is also the possibility that God created everything is now just ignoring it.
 
2017-10-06 09:52:57 AM  
this may be TMI, but: my marriage ended in a shambles b/c of my wife's infidelity. her brother also wrecked his marriage with adultery. their dad is a bishop in one of the major protestant denominations. you might think that a professional christian would have a word with his children but no, "whatever happens is for the best" because it's god's will. this is, at least, not the christianity i was raised in.
 
2017-10-06 09:53:46 AM  

FormlessOne: Or, I could just be really bored because I can't sleep and I'm taking a break from writing documentation about open source database implementations.


I would say that frustration with the mystery of the workings of the universe has a tendency to cause religions to form, so definitely take a break from studying open source database implementations for a while. :)
 
2017-10-06 09:57:17 AM  

mrshowrules: FormlessOne: Hilarious. Y'know, the thing that I find most interesting about the concept of a deity is that, for all we know, if such an entity even exists, the only true "act" that entity probably performed was to force a superposition to collapse into a position for the first damned time, ever, by observing it, and that everything that occurred after that was entirely driven by observation, not action.

Of course that God makes no mistakes - He does nothing, good or bad, but merely watches. Perhaps we could wrap a religion around the Prime Observer, and make observation a sacred ritual. Imagine the fun - suddenly, the first true act of the scientific method is also the First Act of the One True Religion. We are made in that God's image because, like God, our act of observation changes both observer and observed, and the more observed the phenomenon, the more influence the observers have upon it - in other words, like God, we, too, can change reality through observation. We develop a catechism that includes all who observe, without discrimination - indeed, "God's creatures" are defined by their ability to effect observation great enough to influence quantum events.

Or, I could just be really bored because I can't sleep and I'm taking a break from writing documentation about open source database implementations.

You are basically referring to deism.  There is also the possibility that God created everything is now just ignoring it.


Or fast forwarding to see what happens at the end.
 
2017-10-06 10:02:57 AM  

WickerNipple: A rowboat, a powerboat, and a helicopter.


Exactly.
 
2017-10-06 10:06:09 AM  

mrshowrules: FormlessOne: Hilarious. Y'know, the thing that I find most interesting about the concept of a deity is that, for all we know, if such an entity even exists, the only true "act" that entity probably performed was to force a superposition to collapse into a position for the first damned time, ever, by observing it, and that everything that occurred after that was entirely driven by observation, not action.

Of course that God makes no mistakes - He does nothing, good or bad, but merely watches. Perhaps we could wrap a religion around the Prime Observer, and make observation a sacred ritual. Imagine the fun - suddenly, the first true act of the scientific method is also the First Act of the One True Religion. We are made in that God's image because, like God, our act of observation changes both observer and observed, and the more observed the phenomenon, the more influence the observers have upon it - in other words, like God, we, too, can change reality through observation. We develop a catechism that includes all who observe, without discrimination - indeed, "God's creatures" are defined by their ability to effect observation great enough to influence quantum events.

Or, I could just be really bored because I can't sleep and I'm taking a break from writing documentation about open source database implementations.

You are basically referring to deism.  There is also the possibility that God created everything is now just ignoring it.


Or that when God created everything, that really means EVERYTHING. The entirety of space and time. Which means that just because we are trapped inside time following a certain path, God doesn't have to be. To an outside observer from dimensions higher than the ones we observe on a daily basis, "difficult"  things like Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence are trivial things almost not worth even noticing.
 
2017-10-06 10:13:38 AM  

Guadior42: Two of my 3 kids need the bili lights for a brief amount of time. Of course, their mother and I were not complete retarded farkwits and had our babies in modern hospitals, with all the benefits a modern, scientific society could offer.


Yeah, our first child needed the lights for 3 or 4 days.  We brought him home after birth and by the second day we noticed the hue of his skin was scary yellow/orange.

Took him back for a refund, but they shined lights on him instead.  "See?  Good as new!" they said.  Seemed all right so we took him home.  They neglected to tell us that some day he'd be a teenager.
 
2017-10-06 10:21:37 AM  
God makes no mistakes?  Well apparently the AllMighty wants you two dumbfarks in jail.

/His will be done
 
2017-10-06 10:25:38 AM  

washington-babylon: Or that when God created everything, that really means EVERYTHING. The entirety of space and time. Which means that just because we are trapped inside time following a certain path, God doesn't have to be. To an outside observer from dimensions higher than the ones we observe on a daily basis, "difficult"  things like Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence are trivial things almost not worth even noticing.


That's interesting.  He might have create our past, present, future all in once instant and then put it on a shelf and moved-on to something else.  Than another god comes around and says - what's that there on the shelf.  Nothing - just something I created when I was really high.
 
2017-10-06 10:26:49 AM  
Jaundice is highly treatable...only the barely there numbers will nursing and the sun will help. The more extreme will require the UV lights. My son luckily just need to eat and sunbeam, but hey I also made sure to take him back to the hospital within 5 days to make sure his numbers had decreased. That's what responsible parents do.
/these people are not Christian
 
2017-10-06 10:33:16 AM  
God doesn't make mistakes?  My personal medical history begs to differ.
 
2017-10-06 10:38:39 AM  

SansNeural: Guadior42: Two of my 3 kids need the bili lights for a brief amount of time. Of course, their mother and I were not complete retarded farkwits and had our babies in modern hospitals, with all the benefits a modern, scientific society could offer.

Yeah, our first child needed the lights for 3 or 4 days.  We brought him home after birth and by the second day we noticed the hue of his skin was scary yellow/orange.

Took him back for a refund, but they shined lights on him instead.  "See?  Good as new!" they said.  Seemed all right so we took him home.  They neglected to tell us that some day he'd be a teenager.


The real disadvantage of having children who look like you is that you cannot blame the hospital for giving you the wrong infant. That's why they do the business with the matching bracelets; so you can't shop for a better kid.

As has been said several times upthread, jaundice is one of the easiest to resolve problems an infant can have (barring severe jaundice or complications from other health issues). There is literally no excuse for this.
 
2017-10-06 10:50:18 AM  

rebelyell2006: Resident Muslim: Lady J: Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that

Hmm. I got handed a bunch of literature on Islam recently, which I've glanced over.

The stuff actually makes a genuine effort to reconcile some of the traditional teaching of the faith, with 21st century society. And it's articulate and interesting, but there comes a point, where two conflicting beliefs meet, where they just have to fudge it. So (I don't know the exact words) women are supposed to be subservient to their husband... there's just no palatable way to say that to a 21st century London woman. So they just fudge it, with a lot of handwaving. And the science booklet is the same.

1) watered-down religion to gain respect is never respected
2) you'd be surprised how many 21st century London women would find it platable to hear that the same guy who is responsible for leading the family* is also responsible for its livelihood, including financially and has NO claims to her money whether gained or inherited. I remember reading a western woman's reaction stating "I would LOVE to be only responsible for raising my child (and taking care of the household)." Her qualm was modern-day society expects women to be breadwinners in addition to the men...and guess what, they are ALSO responsible for most of the childcare duties and taking care of the household. That's most married couples whether we like it or not. Let's not kid ourselves.

/son of a feminist, grandson to a woman entrepreneur whose husband had no claim to her money
//*Leadership, true leadership is not dictatorship
///a lot of people read something such as "a woman who does not respond to her husband's call to the marriage bed and he goes to sleep angry at her, is cursed by angels until dawn" and read subservient. It's funny that they don't notice that this same passage is actually also saying IT IS HER DECISION and the man cannot force her!

////still sucks when it happens. From my side, I do try to clear my heart so that I don't sleep angry at her.
//My love

Modern-day women need to be breadwinners, because there is insufficient safety net for the average family, and a single-income family will collapse quickly.


I swear to God I once read a study that I've tried googling but could not find again.
I KNOW I wasn't dreaming. Maybe one of you guys has better Google-fu than I.
It was about income of dual income vs single income over time.
The result was that right off the bat, dual income was literally double single income.
The thing is that as time progressed, the single earner started growing at a higher rate and then surpassed the dual income.
I can't remember if it was mentioned in the article (I think it was Forbes or Fortune) or if I assumed this, but the single earner was more focused on the job, could afford to give more time and as available for extra work coming from the boss, knowing that someone was holding the fort back at home.
This translates to more job responsibilities, more dependability from the boss and  therefore more promotions.
Compared to dual income households where housework and childcare is divided equally.

/capitalism and specialization, how do they work
//someone please find the study for me. It's been years
///my tinfoil says it's repressed to keep the cogs in the machine
 
2017-10-06 10:57:21 AM  

Lady J: Resident Muslim: Lady J: Resident Muslim: aagrajag: Weaver95: bigfatbuddhist: That's some weapons-grade stupid saying, "Well, my kid's dead; but, it's okay because that's exactly what God wanted.  I, on the other hand, will continue to look both ways when I cross the street..."

that's evangelical christianity for you.  its not a faith that encourages introspection or logic.

Respectfully, Weav, no faith encourages introspection on logic; that's why it's called "faith". Some are merely worse offenders than others.

Respectfully disagree.
A lot of parts of the Islamic faith ask us to observe both creation and ourselves.

/a lot of today's science stems from that

Hmm. I got handed a bunch of literature on Islam recently, which I've glanced over.

The stuff actually makes a genuine effort to reconcile some of the traditional teaching of the faith, with 21st century society. And it's articulate and interesting, but there comes a point, where two conflicting beliefs meet, where they just have to fudge it. So (I don't know the exact words) women are supposed to be subservient to their husband... there's just no palatable way to say that to a 21st century London woman. So they just fudge it, with a lot of handwaving. And the science booklet is the same.

1) watered-down religion to gain respect is never respected
2) you'd be surprised how many 21st century London women would find it platable to hear that the same guy who is responsible for leading the family* is also responsible for its livelihood, including financially and has NO claims to her money whether gained or inherited. I remember reading a western woman's reaction stating "I would LOVE to be only responsible for raising my child (and taking care of the household)." Her qualm was modern-day society expects women to be breadwinners in addition to the men...and guess what, they are ALSO responsible for most of the childcare duties and taking care of the household. That's most married couples whether we like it or not. Let's not kid ...

And how many is that, exactly? And how do you know that?


Or you can argue my points that indeed 1)women are working (at least) the same number of hours 2) and do more of the housework 3) and do more of the child care. 4) AND still expected to put the money into the family account

/my thanks and gratitude to women everywhere who do this.
// I also believe they don't have to, and get "brownie points" when they help their husbands out
///I'm not even going to get into the discussion of whether it is bological vs social norms that define this
////also, feel free to ask your female friends. Especially mothers how they feel about what I said. Especially with younger kids. If you have a predominantly female group on WhatsApp mention that this guy on the net said this, how do you feel about that
 
2017-10-06 11:00:05 AM  

GoldSpider: chuggernaught: Weaver95: christanity is not our friend.

A couple of asshats do something evil so you blame the entire religion?  You're better than that.  That's something a Republican would do.


Nope, his Fark persona has gone full-persecuted.


(points, laughs at GoldSpider)
 
2017-10-06 11:08:19 AM  
Other than them, they mean.
 
2017-10-06 11:09:15 AM  
God is infallible in the same way that Paul Bunyan has a huge axe.
 
2017-10-06 11:13:51 AM  
Words fail...

There ought to be some kind of test to become parents, besides the Practical Exam, i mean.

 The molecule thin Silver lining I guess, is that the kid won't grow up to be just as stupid as her parents and murder her own child with Faith and Willful Ignorance.  Kind of a stretch.
 
2017-10-06 11:15:48 AM  

katrina_666: Lady J: katrina_666: Lady J: It sounds like police are involved, but is this a crime?

Don't get me wrong, it farking should be, but it's not in the US is it, because of religious freedumb bollocks?

This took place in Michagan.

Michagan, Canada  or Michagan in the Basque region?

Other articles I have found about these monstrous people say they live in Lansing.


You mispelled Michigan.
 
2017-10-06 11:19:09 AM  

SansNeural: Guadior42: Two of my 3 kids need the bili lights for a brief amount of time. Of course, their mother and I were not complete retarded farkwits and had our babies in modern hospitals, with all the benefits a modern, scientific society could offer.

Yeah, our first child needed the lights for 3 or 4 days.  We brought him home after birth and by the second day we noticed the hue of his skin was scary yellow/orange.

Took him back for a refund, but they shined lights on him instead.  "See?  Good as new!" they said.  Seemed all right so we took him home.  They neglected to tell us that some day he'd be a teenager.


Yeah, they don't tell you the kid turns sour after 12 years.
 
2017-10-06 11:26:42 AM  
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts, 
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, 
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, 
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, 
and He bends you with His might 
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies, 
so He loves also the bow that is stable.


Great poem, but I had to google it because you didn't cite the author. Kahlil Gibran, if anyone is wondering. (The whole "children as arrows" metaphor is pretty weird and violent - also used in the Bible, which some people use to interpret as "arrows in God's army" and justification for having eleventy jillion kids: "Happy is he who has a quiver full of them." Yikes.)
 
2017-10-06 11:27:31 AM  
Newborn with jaundice dies after parents refuse treatment saying 'God makes no mistakes'
Rachel Joy Piland, from Michigan, told the midwife "God makes no mistakes", according to a police detective who testified in court last week.
Detective Peter Scaccia said: "Rachel declined to seek any medical treatment for Abigail, stating God makes no mistakes. She indicated to the midwife that the baby was fine."


But still, I wonder if she said anything to try and offer up a justification for her inaction?  Like even some simple phrase to encapsulate and represent her philosophical stance.

But seriously, does anyone here know the difference between "refusing treatment" and ":not seeking treatment"?  Anyone?  Bueller?  English language?

/splitting hares
 
2017-10-06 11:30:33 AM  
Maybe god makes no mistakes, but you sure as fark did.
 
2017-10-06 11:47:27 AM  
And God said "I sent you 3 different social workers to take the kid to the hospital, what more do you want me to do?"
 
2017-10-06 11:48:40 AM  

trappedspirit: Newborn with jaundice dies after parents refuse treatment saying 'God makes no mistakes'
Rachel Joy Piland, from Michigan, told the midwife "God makes no mistakes", according to a police detective who testified in court last week.
Detective Peter Scaccia said: "Rachel declined to seek any medical treatment for Abigail, stating God makes no mistakes. She indicated to the midwife that the baby was fine."

But still, I wonder if she said anything to try and offer up a justification for her inaction?  Like even some simple phrase to encapsulate and represent her philosophical stance.

But seriously, does anyone here know the difference between "refusing treatment" and ":not seeking treatment"?  Anyone?  Bueller?  English language?

/splitting hares


"Refusing treatment" implies an evaluation by a medical professional, and treatment offered but rejected.  In the cases of some life-threatening illnesses, medical professionals may override a treatment refusal and save a person's life.

"Not seeking treatment" means you never went to a doctor in the first place.  Implies more neglect than an action.
 
2017-10-06 11:48:47 AM  

WickerNipple: A rowboat, a powerboat, and a helicopter.


Thank you for making sure this got referenced, as it's really the only relevant wisdom required.  As per Fark tradition, leaving satsified.
 
2017-10-06 11:48:57 AM  

mjjt: If you really want to cause dissension in the ranks, ask "We know God is perfect, and doesn't make mistakes, but if you were God, what would you change about today's world .... ?"

And watch them try to hold two conflicting ideas in their tiny regimented minds


Or what I asked my churchgoing stepmother once: If god is perfect then all that they created would have to be perfect... but we are not. Would god purposely create imperfection even if it could, and why? And if the creation of imperfection is on purpose, then why are these imperfect beings punished for being imperfect?

There's usually a couple of "god's wills" thrown out, then nothing.
 
2017-10-06 12:00:11 PM  
God letting those two be parents seems to have been a huge mistake.  Fortunately he corrected that.
 
2017-10-06 12:08:21 PM  

rewind2846: mjjt: If you really want to cause dissension in the ranks, ask "We know God is perfect, and doesn't make mistakes, but if you were God, what would you change about today's world .... ?"

And watch them try to hold two conflicting ideas in their tiny regimented minds

Or what I asked my churchgoing stepmother once: If god is perfect then all that they created would have to be perfect... but we are not. Would god purposely create imperfection even if it could, and why? And if the creation of imperfection is on purpose, then why are these imperfect beings punished for being imperfect?

There's usually a couple of "god's wills" thrown out, then nothing.


If everything was 'perfect', wouldn't life be boring?  Everybody was nearly the same, nobody got hurt or sick, everybody had the same views and opinions, the world was always safe and comfortable, life would be very boring.  It's the challenges and uncomfortable problems that make life interesting.  This life is short, and if you're going to believe in Christian God, then understand we were created long before we were born on Earth, and will exist somewhere long after we die here.  Well then, this is an amusement ride in a long period of existence.  Separating us from God to see what we really are.

Seriously, you would get bored with a perfect world if everything that sucks was removed.  Getting uncomfortable can be exciting, like doing dangerous things.  It's finding out how terrible people can really be that makes the world just that much worse.
 
2017-10-06 12:16:22 PM  

ThurmanMerman: trappedspirit: Newborn with jaundice dies after parents refuse treatment saying 'God makes no mistakes'
Rachel Joy Piland, from Michigan, told the midwife "God makes no mistakes", according to a police detective who testified in court last week.
Detective Peter Scaccia said: "Rachel declined to seek any medical treatment for Abigail, stating God makes no mistakes. She indicated to the midwife that the baby was fine."

But still, I wonder if she said anything to try and offer up a justification for her inaction?  Like even some simple phrase to encapsulate and represent her philosophical stance.

But seriously, does anyone here know the difference between "refusing treatment" and ":not seeking treatment"?  Anyone?  Bueller?  English language?

/splitting hares

"Refusing treatment" implies an evaluation by a medical professional, and treatment offered but rejected.  In the cases of some life-threatening illnesses, medical professionals may override a treatment refusal and save a person's life.

"Not seeking treatment" means you never went to a doctor in the first place.  Implies more neglect than an action.


Okay, uh, I guess my sarcasm wasn't thorough enough.  Thanks for giving the answer.  I was just pointing out that the article used both phrases and they have different meanings, so, thumbs up reporting.
 
2017-10-06 12:25:23 PM  
I'm fine with throwing these assholes in prison so they can't reproduce. But that probably won't happen, unfortunately.

They'll plead out and immediately start farking again (in the Jesus-approved fashion, no fun allowed) so they can start populating the earth with little people that they will try to raise to be as stupid as they are. Neato.
 
2017-10-06 12:34:18 PM  

johnphantom: FormlessOne: Hilarious. Y'know, the thing that I find most interesting about the concept of a deity is that, for all we know, if such an entity even exists, the only true "act" that entity probably performed was to force a superposition to collapse into a position for the first damned time, ever, by observing it, and that everything that occurred after that was entirely driven by observation, not action.

Of course that God makes no mistakes - He does nothing, good or bad, but merely watches. Perhaps we could wrap a religion around the Prime Observer, and make observation a sacred ritual. Imagine the fun - suddenly, the first true act of the scientific method is also the First Act of the One True Religion. We are made in that God's image because, like God, our act of observation changes both observer and observed, and the more observed the phenomenon, the more influence the observers have upon it - in other words, like God, we, too, can change reality through observation. We develop a catechism that includes all who observe, without discrimination - indeed, "God's creatures" are defined by their ability to effect observation great enough to influence quantum events.

Or, I could just be really bored because I can't sleep and I'm taking a break from writing documentation about open source database implementations.

You might get a kick out of my profile... just a suggestion.


You're not wrong.
 
2017-10-06 12:34:35 PM  
PLease put these dangerously ignorant farks in prison. Hopefully they will never be able to breed again.
One of my sons had the same problem. It was easy to fix, it is very common.
God makes parents to take care of their children.He doesn't do house calls ignoramus.
 
2017-10-06 12:35:18 PM  

Cynicism101: Great poem, but I had to google it because you didn't cite the author. Kahlil Gibran, if anyone is wondering. (The whole "children as arrows" metaphor is pretty weird and violent - also used in the Bible, which some people use to interpret as "arrows in God's army" and justification for having eleventy jillion kids: "Happy is he who has a quiver full of them." Yikes.)


See Quiverfull.
 
2017-10-06 12:38:08 PM  

Aidan: FormlessOne: Or, I could just be really bored because I can't sleep and I'm taking a break from writing documentation about open source database implementations.

I would say that frustration with the mystery of the workings of the universe has a tendency to cause religions to form, so definitely take a break from studying open source database implementations for a while. :)


I'm staring at PostgreSQL and hit the WAL, so to speak. I swear to the Prime Observer, if I see one more log implementation, I'm gonna go back to babysitting AS/400s just out of spite.
 
2017-10-06 12:40:40 PM  
"He [the father] attempted one rescue breath but had no success. He did not want to perform CPR because he only knew how to perform it on adults, not children," the detective said.

If you believe God makes no mistakes, why did you learn CPR ?

"They then brought Abigail upstairs to pray for her. Joshua continued to massage Abigail, attempting to get her good air. Both Josh and (Rachel) reached out to friends and fellow church members to come to their home and pray for Abigail's resurrection, but never called the police."

If you believe God makes no mistakes, why did you and your friends go against his will by offering prayers and treatments to reverse what he did to your family ?
 
2017-10-06 12:46:25 PM  
From the Faith Tech Ministries website :

Because we are not associated with any denomination, it is somewhat difficult to fit us into a particular slot. However, we are what many call "full gospel" or "pentecostal" for the reason that, 1) we believe in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as the only means of salvation with God, and 2) that a subsequent experience of receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit is commanded by Jesus in Acts 1:4-5, with the initial physical evidence of speaking in tongues as recorded in Acts 2:4; 10:44-46 and 19:1-6. We also teach a strong holiness message - our lives to be lived free from sin as commanded in I John 2:1 - obedience to the moral government of God as spoken of by Christ in John 14:21-24, and a strong message in the area of divine healing and the operation of the Holy Spirit through each believer with signs and wonders following their ministries.

media.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2017-10-06 12:56:33 PM  
They aren't dating anything that isn't in basically all of the major religious texts
 
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