Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CityLab)   America's latest urban transportation boondoggle: streetcars. You will be unsurprised to learn that Detroit is Case Study #1   ( citylab.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Bus, streetcar, New York City, Salt Lake City, brand-new downtown streetcar, successful streetcar network, Tram, two-mile streetcar cost  
•       •       •

1151 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Oct 2017 at 7:13 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



29 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-10-05 04:57:17 PM  
This is the sixth budget cycle in a row in which the city of Milwaukee has reduced the budget for police, firefighters, and EMTs, but they somehow found money for a streetcar.
 
2017-10-05 05:39:36 PM  
The one here in DC was sitting in a rail yard for years and they installed it and have been testing it for a while. I think it is being used now but it really doesn't go anywhere. But they have been talking about expanding it, seems busses would be cheaper though.
 
2017-10-05 06:18:14 PM  
The one in KC has plenty of riders and actuals runs a useful route. Of course it's also free to ride so....
 
2017-10-05 06:35:47 PM  

groppet: The one here in DC was sitting in a rail yard for years and they installed it and have been testing it for a while. I think it is being used now but it really doesn't go anywhere. But they have been talking about expanding it, seems busses would be cheaper though.


The one in Portland seems to do better than busses because it's easy for occasional users to know where it goes.
 
2017-10-05 06:36:32 PM  

ArkAngel: This is the sixth budget cycle in a row in which the city of Milwaukee has reduced the budget for police, firefighters, and EMTs, but they somehow found money for a streetcar.


Please tell me it's named Desire!
 
2017-10-05 07:16:39 PM  

davidphogan: groppet: The one here in DC was sitting in a rail yard for years and they installed it and have been testing it for a while. I think it is being used now but it really doesn't go anywhere. But they have been talking about expanding it, seems busses would be cheaper though.

The one in Portland seems to do better than busses because it's easy for occasional users to know where it goes.


To be fair, I haven't paid to ride it since it stopped being free in downtown.  I do ride it a few times a week though.
 
2017-10-05 07:25:53 PM  
So the streetcar has to actually go to places people want to go? Color me shocked!
 
2017-10-05 07:45:45 PM  

lindalouwho: ArkAngel: This is the sixth budget cycle in a row in which the city of Milwaukee has reduced the budget for police, firefighters, and EMTs, but they somehow found money for a streetcar.

Please tell me it's named Desire!


STELLAAAA!!!
 
2017-10-05 07:53:37 PM  
They seem to be doing well in Toronto
 
2017-10-05 08:13:52 PM  

bingethinker: So the streetcar has to actually go to places people want to go? Color me shocked!


We have the Trolley in San Diego. It doesn't go to the airport, sea world, the zoo, all of the universities, or any uptown neighborhoods.

/they talked about putting in a street car system to supplement the bus system with the idea being the street cars would only work within each neighborhood and then buses would only stop at the main stops to connect people that needed longer hauls. So far we just have the long haul busses.
 
2017-10-05 08:23:46 PM  
Sooooo...

First, Detroit destroys the streetcars to sell busses...

Nowthey want the street cars back...

OK, this could have been a valid use of the ironic tab.
 
2017-10-05 09:05:41 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: davidphogan: groppet: The one here in DC was sitting in a rail yard for years and they installed it and have been testing it for a while. I think it is being used now but it really doesn't go anywhere. But they have been talking about expanding it, seems busses would be cheaper though.

The one in Portland seems to do better than busses because it's easy for occasional users to know where it goes.

To be fair, I haven't paid to ride it since it stopped being free in downtown. I do ride it a few times a week though.


That's going to an onion belt story one day. "Of course, downtown was free at the time but if you needed to go to Hillsboro it cost a hunk of cheese."
 
2017-10-05 09:27:01 PM  
Street cars are expensive because no one builds them. If you want to do a small district circuit, just get a few tram busses like they use to move people from parking to theme park gates.
 
2017-10-05 09:29:00 PM  

morg: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: davidphogan: groppet: The one here in DC was sitting in a rail yard for years and they installed it and have been testing it for a while. I think it is being used now but it really doesn't go anywhere. But they have been talking about expanding it, seems busses would be cheaper though.

The one in Portland seems to do better than busses because it's easy for occasional users to know where it goes.

To be fair, I haven't paid to ride it since it stopped being free in downtown. I do ride it a few times a week though.

That's going to an onion belt story one day. "Of course, downtown was free at the time but if you needed to go to Hillsboro it cost a hunk of cheese."


Which was the same price as a house off Alberta at the time.
 
2017-10-05 09:31:59 PM  

J.R. 'Bob' Chinaski: We have the Trolley in San Diego. It doesn't go to the airport, sea world, the zoo, all of the universities, or any uptown neighborhoods.


It goes to downtown, old town (tourist trap), the (now defunct and teamless) stadium, mission valley/fashion valley malls (tourist traps near the stadium), the crappy city college, the crappy state university, a whole lot of ghettoes ... and the Mexican border.

But it doesn't go anywhere north of mission valley santee (looks like they expanded it a little), which makes it useless for most of the folks in the county (as most folks don't actually work downtown or anywhere near downtown).

// there is the coaster for folks further north, but with an even more sparse schedule and more cost. Plus, you actually have to get to the coaster in the first place ...

// TL/DR my old 14 mile commute took about two hours on public transportation.

// for those of you used to complex/convoluted subway/train maps, marvel at the simplicity of our light rail system...

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size


and now compare that to the map of the county

1866swiftsource.comView Full Size
 
2017-10-05 10:45:06 PM  
One thing to remember is that streetcars do hold more people than buses. A good streetcar line works best as a higher order local transit route. If you have a corridor with a lot of ridership and local destinations where a rapid transit solution (subway, LRT, BRT) would be too fast, a streetcar could be a perfect fit.
 
2017-10-05 10:48:07 PM  

davidphogan: groppet: The one here in DC was sitting in a rail yard for years and they installed it and have been testing it for a while. I think it is being used now but it really doesn't go anywhere. But they have been talking about expanding it, seems busses would be cheaper though.

The one in Portland seems to do better than busses because it's easy for occasional users to know where it goes.


You can beat the Portland street car from end to end by walking, and you don't have to hustle either,  that thing is a joke.   I dearly hope they haven't added to that line or put in others, its a rolling road block.
 
2017-10-05 11:45:05 PM  

ArkAngel: This is the sixth budget cycle in a row in which the city of Milwaukee has reduced the budget for police, firefighters, and EMTs, but they somehow found money for a streetcar.


Streetcars get urban planners hard
 
2017-10-05 11:45:45 PM  

bingethinker: So the streetcar has to actually go to places people want to go? Color me shocked!


The one in Memphis goes from nowhere to nowhere and it basically riddenby one bum
 
2017-10-06 12:55:20 AM  

Vaginosilicosis: davidphogan: groppet: The one here in DC was sitting in a rail yard for years and they installed it and have been testing it for a while. I think it is being used now but it really doesn't go anywhere. But they have been talking about expanding it, seems busses would be cheaper though.

The one in Portland seems to do better than busses because it's easy for occasional users to know where it goes.

You can beat the Portland street car from end to end by walking, and you don't have to hustle either,  that thing is a joke.   I dearly hope they haven't added to that line or put in others, its a rolling road block.


End to end?  South Waterfront to NW 23rd?  3.5 miles in 35 to 40 minutes, walking, through downtown Portland and the Pearl?  Or do you mean across town, like Joe Rose did where he walked through the center of the loop?

Yes, walking through the center of a circle is faster than going around the circle.
 
2017-10-06 01:00:36 AM  

lordargent: J.R. 'Bob' Chinaski: We have the Trolley in San Diego. It doesn't go to the airport, sea world, the zoo, all of the universities, or any uptown neighborhoods.

It goes to downtown, old town (tourist trap), the (now defunct and teamless) stadium, mission valley/fashion valley malls (tourist traps near the stadium), the crappy city college, the crappy state university, a whole lot of ghettoes ... and the Mexican border.

But it doesn't go anywhere north of mission valley santee (looks like they expanded it a little), which makes it useless for most of the folks in the county (as most folks don't actually work downtown or anywhere near downtown).

// there is the coaster for folks further north, but with an even more sparse schedule and more cost. Plus, you actually have to get to the coaster in the first place ...

// TL/DR my old 14 mile commute took about two hours on public transportation.

// for those of you used to complex/convoluted subway/train maps, marvel at the simplicity of our light rail system...

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x849]

and now compare that to the map of the county

[www.1866swiftsource.com image 474x374]


There was talk of an airport line a few times between 2002 and 2005, but that went away as the city tried harder and harder to find a new site and the TransNet extension passed without that being an item.

Sorry, I tried.  The developers loved Miramar even if the Marines had no intention of giving it up.
 
2017-10-06 01:35:50 AM  
Why in the name of God for anybody Build a Streetcar line that was just 1.3 miles long?

Street cars have their uses. They can be pretty good in Toronto. We have a reasonably extensive line system that intersects several subway stations and bus lines.

They are also a pain in the ass. Where are the bus pulls over and guys can go pass them, the streetcar stop in the center lane and oblige everyone else on the street to stop as well. But, they are cheaper to run and carry a lot more people. Probably not as fast as the buses, but efficient in their own way.
 
2017-10-06 01:43:48 AM  

davidphogan: End to end?  South Waterfront to NW 23rd?  3.5 miles in 35 to 40 minutes, walking, through downtown Portland and the Pearl?  Or do you mean across town, like Joe Rose did where he walked through the center of the loop?

Yes, walking through the center of a circle is faster than going around the circle.


The original line ran from PSU Urban Center to NW 23rd and Marshall and was 2 1/4 miles,  its not in a circle unless you count the return line not being on the same street.   The same destination walking is only about 1.5 miles.   The street car took 35-45 minutes end to end depending on traffic and lights, a person walking PSU to NW 23rd could do it in 20 min,  walking casually.

On the stretch from PSU to the Burnside where the damn thing stopped every 5 feet you could walk the same route, no shortcuts, and beat the train to Burnside by 5 minutes.

The MAX is fine, for the 2% of people that live right near a station and work at another station, but the streetcar was a bad joke that they have decided to continue building out.
 
2017-10-06 02:11:31 AM  

Vaginosilicosis: davidphogan: End to end?  South Waterfront to NW 23rd?  3.5 miles in 35 to 40 minutes, walking, through downtown Portland and the Pearl?  Or do you mean across town, like Joe Rose did where he walked through the center of the loop?

Yes, walking through the center of a circle is faster than going around the circle.

The original line ran from PSU Urban Center to NW 23rd and Marshall and was 2 1/4 miles,  its not in a circle unless you count the return line not being on the same street.   The same destination walking is only about 1.5 miles.   The street car took 35-45 minutes end to end depending on traffic and lights, a person walking PSU to NW 23rd could do it in 20 min,  walking casually.

On the stretch from PSU to the Burnside where the damn thing stopped every 5 feet you could walk the same route, no shortcuts, and beat the train to Burnside by 5 minutes.

The MAX is fine, for the 2% of people that live right near a station and work at another station, but the streetcar was a bad joke that they have decided to continue building out.


I lived near the NW 23rd stop when the SoWa extension opened.  It was about 20-25 minutes to go 2.25 miles back then.  Since then, they've opened the SoWa portion, the East Side, and the Bridge.

I use the MAX occasionally, also.  Apparently I'm part of the 2% of people in the seven county region you're referring to that lives near it.  Since it only goes to three of those counties (that's why it's run by TRImet) do you want to use actual numbers instead of comparing apples to tacos?
 
2017-10-06 10:34:38 AM  

davidphogan: Vaginosilicosis: davidphogan: End to end?  South Waterfront to NW 23rd?  3.5 miles in 35 to 40 minutes, walking, through downtown Portland and the Pearl?  Or do you mean across town, like Joe Rose did where he walked through the center of the loop?

Yes, walking through the center of a circle is faster than going around the circle.

The original line ran from PSU Urban Center to NW 23rd and Marshall and was 2 1/4 miles,  its not in a circle unless you count the return line not being on the same street.   The same destination walking is only about 1.5 miles.   The street car took 35-45 minutes end to end depending on traffic and lights, a person walking PSU to NW 23rd could do it in 20 min,  walking casually.

On the stretch from PSU to the Burnside where the damn thing stopped every 5 feet you could walk the same route, no shortcuts, and beat the train to Burnside by 5 minutes.

The MAX is fine, for the 2% of people that live right near a station and work at another station, but the streetcar was a bad joke that they have decided to continue building out.

I lived near the NW 23rd stop when the SoWa extension opened.  It was about 20-25 minutes to go 2.25 miles back then.  Since then, they've opened the SoWa portion, the East Side, and the Bridge.

I use the MAX occasionally, also.  Apparently I'm part of the 2% of people in the seven county region you're referring to that lives near it.  Since it only goes to three of those counties (that's why it's run by TRImet) do you want to use actual numbers instead of comparing apples to tacos?


That never happened.

I lived near PSU, I rode that piece of crap streetcar and I've beaten it walking.  I know exactly what I'm talking about.   The train is a joke but defend it if you want.

I also lived next to Nike Campus specifically to use the MAX station nearby, it became useless when I not longer worked downtown.  Transit in Portland is a feelgood boondoggle that I am glad to be rid of.  Trimet hobbling bus service to pay for choo choo trains and ski lifts that serve only a fraction of the need of real people is a travesty.
 
2017-10-06 11:12:59 AM  
I live in Detroit. Lived 4 blocks from Woodward (where the trolley is) for over a decade. Let me explain what I see. There is little difference between a bus and a trolley, as far as getting from point A to point B. The biggest benefit is in development. A trolley is fixed infrastructure, making planning for developers predictable. The second the trolley was announced, before an inch of track was laid, projects along the Woodward corridor completely ramped up. The area between Warren and West Grand is now very desireable real estate.
 
2017-10-06 02:23:17 PM  

lordargent: the crappy state university


fark you.
#AztecProud
 
2017-10-06 02:35:41 PM  

bingethinker: So the streetcar has to actually go to places people want to go? Color me shocked!


Calf super-duper high speed rail still hasn't learned that and is now burning thru a 2nd Billion ( yes with a B!) dollars of your tax dollars and mine...

Spent the first Billion on thinking about how to start planning to build a rail system and getting ready to dig up the Silicon Valley and I-5 corridor in LA! The feasibility white paper bombed with huge cost overruns, environmental impact issues and loads of NiMBY protesting... so they decided to spend another Billion on Railroad tracks between Bakersfield and Modesto... ie, places no one wants to go to at 100mph for $100 dollars a ticket!
 
2017-10-06 11:59:39 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: davidphogan: Vaginosilicosis: davidphogan: End to end?  South Waterfront to NW 23rd?  3.5 miles in 35 to 40 minutes, walking, through downtown Portland and the Pearl?  Or do you mean across town, like Joe Rose did where he walked through the center of the loop?

Yes, walking through the center of a circle is faster than going around the circle.

The original line ran from PSU Urban Center to NW 23rd and Marshall and was 2 1/4 miles,  its not in a circle unless you count the return line not being on the same street.   The same destination walking is only about 1.5 miles.   The street car took 35-45 minutes end to end depending on traffic and lights, a person walking PSU to NW 23rd could do it in 20 min,  walking casually.

On the stretch from PSU to the Burnside where the damn thing stopped every 5 feet you could walk the same route, no shortcuts, and beat the train to Burnside by 5 minutes.

The MAX is fine, for the 2% of people that live right near a station and work at another station, but the streetcar was a bad joke that they have decided to continue building out.

I lived near the NW 23rd stop when the SoWa extension opened.  It was about 20-25 minutes to go 2.25 miles back then.  Since then, they've opened the SoWa portion, the East Side, and the Bridge.

I use the MAX occasionally, also.  Apparently I'm part of the 2% of people in the seven county region you're referring to that lives near it.  Since it only goes to three of those counties (that's why it's run by TRImet) do you want to use actual numbers instead of comparing apples to tacos?

That never happened.

I lived near PSU, I rode that piece of crap streetcar and I've beaten it walking.  I know exactly what I'm talking about.   The train is a joke but defend it if you want.

I also lived next to Nike Campus specifically to use the MAX station nearby, it became useless when I not longer worked downtown.  Transit in Portland is a feelgood boondoggle that I am glad to be rid of.  Trimet hobbling bus serv ...


Yes, it did.  I lived near NW 23rd, and took to to PSU to get burritos in 2007-2008, and it was regularly 22-24 minutes from station to burritos.

Don't fark with burritos.  I know this.  Well.
 
Displayed 29 of 29 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking

On Twitter





Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report