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(New York Magazine)   Republicans angry at economists for finding their tax cuts go to the rich. Satire tag no longer surprised to be left on the bench for articles like this   ( nymag.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Tax Policy Center, Democratic Party, Taxation, George W. Bush, Republican Party, House Republicans, Republican tax plan., Republican tax-cut plan  
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2462 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Oct 2017 at 11:02 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-10-03 09:01:24 AM  
Math is clearly a sinister plot intended to make dumb people feel stupid.
 
2017-10-03 09:07:25 AM  
It's been well established that the truth and the facts have liberal biases.
 
2017-10-03 09:12:59 AM  
Well, Republicans are actively trying to neuter the CBO so this is hardly a surprise...
 
2017-10-03 09:14:44 AM  
They claim it's not finished. As they stand right now, the tax cuts are unsustainable. So in order to increase the equity they would have to remove some of the proposed tax cuts. Or they could just leave President Simpson inherit this budget crunch.
 
2017-10-03 09:23:28 AM  
Now is not the time to talk about taxes.
 
2017-10-03 09:29:50 AM  
Once we're all rich, people who opposed those tax cuts are going to feel really stupid.
 
2017-10-03 10:25:52 AM  

Pazuzu Smith-Jones: Once we're all rich, people who opposed those tax cuts are going to feel really stupid.


I've long thought that was more or less the ultimate Republican tax plan:  incentivize the entire public to become wealthy.  A noble goal, of course.  And relatively easy.  Just invert the tax brackets.  Imagine how hard the poor would work to improve their position if they had the highest tax brackets.
 
2017-10-03 10:35:07 AM  

ToastmasterGeneral: Pazuzu Smith-Jones: Once we're all rich, people who opposed those tax cuts are going to feel really stupid.

I've long thought that was more or less the ultimate Republican tax plan:  incentivize the entire public to become wealthy.  A noble goal, of course.  And relatively easy.  Just invert the tax brackets.  Imagine how hard the poor would work to improve their position if they had the highest tax brackets.


Does not work when jobs are being automated and pay for jobs that aren't automated do not increase with inflation and cost of living.  Needs more God worship
 
2017-10-03 10:40:05 AM  
Facts are terrible crushers of dreams, and thus should be abolished. Much like informed consent and sexual harassment legislation, because they just get in the way of old men living out their dreams, and why do you want to crush their dreams of wealth beyond the scope of avarice?

ARE YOU MONSTERS HAPPY NOW?
 
2017-10-03 10:41:30 AM  

harleyquinnical: ToastmasterGeneral: Pazuzu Smith-Jones: Once we're all rich, people who opposed those tax cuts are going to feel really stupid.

I've long thought that was more or less the ultimate Republican tax plan:  incentivize the entire public to become wealthy.  A noble goal, of course.  And relatively easy.  Just invert the tax brackets.  Imagine how hard the poor would work to improve their position if they had the highest tax brackets.

Does not work when jobs are being automated and pay for jobs that aren't automated do not increase with inflation and cost of living.  Needs more God worship


They could always become entrepreneurs.  Or get rich parents.
 
2017-10-03 10:46:06 AM  
Yeah, you take away the 39.6 % top tax rate and that gives a good tax cut to the rich.  How do you make up?  Well, when you have a 10% tax rate at the bottom and you slice that bracket out as well then those paying 10% before will not pay 12 or is it 15%?  But the poor slobs on the bottom will be better off, just trust them.
 
2017-10-03 10:56:42 AM  
And this sort of sh*t is why we will see more extremists get elected.
 
2017-10-03 10:57:37 AM  
We need to sign the tax cut bill into law first, then we'll find out what it says.
 
2017-10-03 10:57:54 AM  
Since the tax system is marginal, there is literally no tax scheme which benefits the middle class which doesn't equally benefit the wealthy, and any tax cut to the top bracket would only go to the wealthy enough to utilize it.

The only way that tax reform isn't disproportionate to the rich is to reduce the marginal rate for
the middle-income brackets and then to increase the rates for the top brackets to recoup the discount on the income in the middle range.
 
2017-10-03 11:06:55 AM  
Didn't Newt Gingrich say the CBO should be abolished because they couldn't see the genius of Trump and score his tax plan dynamically enough. So yes they are going to attack math because it's liberal plot.

/fun fact my new phone tried to change genius of Trump to heinous of Trump
//both would be accurate in this context
///well not so much the genius
 
2017-10-03 11:10:01 AM  
That's not what satire means.
 
2017-10-03 11:10:52 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-10-03 11:14:29 AM  

ToastmasterGeneral: Pazuzu Smith-Jones: Once we're all rich, people who opposed those tax cuts are going to feel really stupid.

I've long thought that was more or less the ultimate Republican tax plan:  incentivize the entire public to become wealthy.  A noble goal, of course.  And relatively easy.  Just invert the tax brackets.  Imagine how hard the poor would work to improve their position if they had the highest tax brackets.


I'd like to improve your idea with a few steps:

1) Enact a 1,500,000% income tax on the first dollar any person makes (i.e. every worker pays $15,000 every year no matter what).
2) Eliminate all income taxes on any other dollars any person makes.
3) Use the tax dollars to build a really farking awesome gulag.
4) Enact a penalty of lifetime indentured servitude in the gulag for persons who fail to pay their taxes at any point in their life.
 
2017-10-03 11:18:37 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: We need to sign the tax cut bill into law first, then we'll find out what it says.


Poe's Law comes to life: I said this out loud, and my wife asked which member of the Administration said that.
 
2017-10-03 11:21:19 AM  

Serious Black: ToastmasterGeneral: Pazuzu Smith-Jones: Once we're all rich, people who opposed those tax cuts are going to feel really stupid.

I've long thought that was more or less the ultimate Republican tax plan:  incentivize the entire public to become wealthy.  A noble goal, of course.  And relatively easy.  Just invert the tax brackets.  Imagine how hard the poor would work to improve their position if they had the highest tax brackets.

I'd like to improve your idea with a few steps:

1) Enact a 1,500,000% income tax on the first dollar any person makes (i.e. every worker pays $15,000 every year no matter what).
2) Eliminate all income taxes on any other dollars any person makes.
3) Use the tax dollars to build a really farking awesome gulag.
4) Enact a penalty of lifetime indentured servitude in the gulag for persons who fail to pay their taxes at any point in their life.


Sounds like a boondoggle. Outsource the construction and operation of the gulags to Foxconn and Make America Great Again.
 
2017-10-03 11:22:29 AM  
FTA:
It is true that the TPC regularly publishes reports indicating that Republican tax proposals confer a large proportion of their direct benefit upon the highest-earning households. "The Tax Policy Center hates Republicans" is one way of explaining this fact pattern. Likewise, the FBI's long-standing pattern of charging members of the Gambino family with federal crimes could be explained as FBI bias against the Gambinos. On the other hand, it might just be the case that the Gambino organization commits a lot of crimes and TPC calculations keep showing that Republican tax-cut plans benefit the rich because Republican tax cut plans always benefit the rich.
 
2017-10-03 11:22:37 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-10-03 11:23:29 AM  
It's totally unfair that reality won't comply with the Republican agenda.
 
2017-10-03 11:26:10 AM  

Bowen: Serious Black: ToastmasterGeneral: Pazuzu Smith-Jones: Once we're all rich, people who opposed those tax cuts are going to feel really stupid.

I've long thought that was more or less the ultimate Republican tax plan:  incentivize the entire public to become wealthy.  A noble goal, of course.  And relatively easy.  Just invert the tax brackets.  Imagine how hard the poor would work to improve their position if they had the highest tax brackets.

I'd like to improve your idea with a few steps:

1) Enact a 1,500,000% income tax on the first dollar any person makes (i.e. every worker pays $15,000 every year no matter what).
2) Eliminate all income taxes on any other dollars any person makes.
3) Use the tax dollars to build a really farking awesome gulag.
4) Enact a penalty of lifetime indentured servitude in the gulag for persons who fail to pay their taxes at any point in their life.

Sounds like a boondoggle. Outsource the construction and operation of the gulags to Foxconn and Make America Great Again.


Yes, that would make my idea even greater! Private gulags for all!
 
2017-10-03 11:27:32 AM  
"Its record of hostility to any GOP tax reform that cuts tax rates shows the opposite."

Is that what the GOP calls increasing the national debt by almost $2 trillion?

img.fark.net
 
2017-10-03 11:32:09 AM  
Deficits are awesome again!

The GOP Tax Plan Is Already Hitting Speed Bumps

White House Budget Director Mick Mulvaney is signaling similar flexibility, saying on CNN Sunday that decisions about deductions remain up in the air as "the bill is not finished yet." He took it a step further, by adding that a tax plan that doesn't add to the deficit won't spur growth.

"I've been very candid about this. We need to have new deficits because of that. We need to have the growth," Mulvaney said. "If we simply look at this as being deficit-neutral, you're never going to get the type of tax reform and tax reductions that you need to get to sustain 3 percent economic growth."
 
2017-10-03 11:37:28 AM  

nmrsnr: Since the tax system is marginal, there is literally no tax scheme which benefits the middle class which doesn't equally benefit the wealthy, and any tax cut to the top bracket would only go to the wealthy enough to utilize it.

The only way that tax reform isn't disproportionate to the rich is to reduce the marginal rate for
the middle-income brackets and then to increase the rates for the top brackets to recoup the discount on the income in the middle range.


Pretty easy to benefit the lower income people and not the wealthy, you decrease the rate in lower brackets and increase the rate on higher brackets. That that is the basic concept of progressive tax rates.
 
2017-10-03 11:37:55 AM  
Tax cuts, if any are to be had with the stated purpose of "stimulating the economy", should start with those who would actually stimulate the economy - the lower and middle class.
Consider a $100,000 tax cut to someone with $50 million already in their pocket. How much of that will they spend?
Now take that $100,000 and give $1000 to each of 100 people in the $50,000 (or lower) tax bracket. That money gets spent NOW. And when money moves it works, creates jobs, and stimulates the economy.

This administration is the culmination of decades of wet dreams by the 1%, to finally own everything - including the government itself - and use it as a tool to remake the world in their image for themselves and their progeny. And the farked up part is how they suckered the republican voters in the other 99% to help them do it.
 
2017-10-03 11:40:04 AM  

nmrsnr: Since the tax system is marginal, there is literally no tax scheme which benefits the middle class which doesn't equally benefit the wealthy, and any tax cut to the top bracket would only go to the wealthy enough to utilize it.

The only way that tax reform isn't disproportionate to the rich is to reduce the marginal rate for
the middle-income brackets and then to increase the rates for the top brackets to recoup the discount on the income in the middle range.


I would advocate returning to where there were top marginal tax brackets that impact primarily the 1%, or the 0.1%.
Top tax brackets often started at 300,000 - 400,000 in the 1950s, (That's 3-4 million in 2017 dollars)
The idea that dollar 350,001 (or whatever Trump's 35% bracket will start at) and 300,000,001 should be taxed the same is a big part of how we've allowed the rich to push more of the tax burden onto the middle class.

I'm not going to say a return to 90% tax rates is a good idea, but you can offset a lot of modest working class and middle class tax cuts by upping the rate from 35% to 42% at 1 million and 50% and 5 million.
 
2017-10-03 11:40:33 AM  

rewind2846: Tax cuts, if any are to be had with the stated purpose of "stimulating the economy", should start with those who would actually stimulate the economy - the lower and middle class.
Consider a $100,000 tax cut to someone with $50 million already in their pocket. How much of that will they spend?
Now take that $100,000 and give $1000 to each of 100 people in the $50,000 (or lower) tax bracket. That money gets spent NOW. And when money moves it works, creates jobs, and stimulates the economy.

This administration is the culmination of decades of wet dreams by the 1%, to finally own everything - including the government itself - and use it as a tool to remake the world in their image for themselves and their progeny. And the farked up part is how they suckered the republican voters in the other 99% to help them do it.


Well the actual purpose obviously isn't to stimulate anything. It's only something they say because it sounds better than the truth.
 
2017-10-03 11:43:36 AM  
Don't criticize our incomplete plan that we are actively shilling!
 
2017-10-03 11:44:23 AM  

nmrsnr: Since the tax system is marginal, there is literally no tax scheme which benefits the middle class which doesn't equally benefit the wealthy, and any tax cut to the top bracket would only go to the wealthy enough to utilize it.

The only way that tax reform isn't disproportionate to the rich is to reduce the marginal rate for
the middle-income brackets and then to increase the rates for the top brackets to recoup the discount on the income in the middle range.


The rate of tax at the federal level is graduated; that is, the tax rates on higher amounts of income are higher than on lower amounts.
 
2017-10-03 11:46:07 AM  
The Partisan Tax Policy Center
The media's favorite tax policy shop uses outdated economic models to serve Democratic political ends.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-partisan-tax-policy-center-145713275​0​?mg=prod/accounts-wsj
 
2017-10-03 11:46:41 AM  

nmrsnr: Since the tax system is marginal, there is literally no tax scheme which benefits the middle class which doesn't equally benefit the wealthy, and any tax cut to the top bracket would only go to the wealthy enough to utilize it.

The only way that tax reform isn't disproportionate to the rich is to reduce the marginal rate for
the middle-income brackets and then to increase the rates for the top brackets
to recoup the discount on the income in the middle range.


Literally?
 
2017-10-03 11:47:21 AM  
Double-damn!!!...foiled again!
www.craigboldman.com
 
2017-10-03 11:48:34 AM  

EvilEgg: They claim it's not finished. As they stand right now, the tax cuts are unsustainable. So in order to increase the equity they would have to remove some of the proposed tax cuts. Or they could just leave President Simpson inherit this budget crunch.


They're just waiting for the other bill to pass that changes the rule about requiring a CBO scoring so they can lie their arses off about these tax cuts being 'revenue neutral' and all that other garbage they love to peddle.
 
2017-10-03 11:50:47 AM  
As if you even needed to be an economist to figure out that most people wouldn't benefit from repealing a tax that doesn't even apply unless you're leaving over five million dollars to your heirs.
 
2017-10-03 11:52:59 AM  

nmrsnr: Since the tax system is marginal, there is literally no tax scheme which benefits the middle class which doesn't equally benefit the wealthy, and any tax cut to the top bracket would only go to the wealthy enough to utilize it.

The only way that tax reform isn't disproportionate to the rich is to reduce the marginal rate for
the middle-income brackets and then to increase the rates for the top brackets to recoup the discount on the income in the middle range.


You could easily enact rules that limit deductions to a certain income cap, like 'for those earning beneath $90,000' single (bottom 90% of earners).
 
2017-10-03 11:53:32 AM  

fernt: The Partisan Tax Policy Center
The media's favorite tax policy shop uses outdated economic models to serve Democratic political ends.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-partisan-tax-policy-center-1457132750​?mg=prod/accounts-wsj


Specifically which part of their findings are inaccurate?
 
2017-10-03 11:53:42 AM  

fernt: The Partisan Tax Policy Center
The media's favorite tax policy shop uses outdated economic models to serve Democratic political ends.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-partisan-tax-policy-center-1457132750​?mg=prod/accounts-wsj


I guess we're lucky that the Tax Policy Center updated their models in 2017, so said criticisms in that article written in 2016 are no longer valid!
 
2017-10-03 11:58:38 AM  

rewind2846: Tax cuts, if any are to be had with the stated purpose of "stimulating the economy", should start with those who would actually stimulate the economy - the lower and middle class.
Consider a $100,000 tax cut to someone with $50 million already in their pocket. How much of that will they spend?
Now take that $100,000 and give $1000 to each of 100 people in the $50,000 (or lower) tax bracket. That money gets spent NOW. And when money moves it works, creates jobs, and stimulates the economy.

This administration is the culmination of decades of wet dreams by the 1%, to finally own everything - including the government itself - and use it as a tool to remake the world in their image for themselves and their progeny. And the farked up part is how they suckered the republican voters in the other 99% to help them do it.


You've clearly never heard the parable of the fish and the coconuts.
 
2017-10-03 11:58:52 AM  
What's funny: they are barely out of the gate and already considering doing away with or severely curtailing the pay-fors to enact tax cuts for the rich. Of course, this explodes the deficit but that only matters when a Democrat is President.

GOP Leaders Consider Changing State and Local Tax Deduction Instead of Ending It

Republican leaders are considering putting limits on the $1.3 trillion state and local tax deduction -- instead of eliminating it -- in order to secure votes from members in the hardest-hit states.

House Ways and Means Chairman Kevin Brady discussed options at a dinner Monday night with several GOP members who have defended the break. They talked about measures including capping the deduction for top earners, and allowing individuals to choose between deducting mortgage interest or property taxes -- but not both -- when calculating their taxes, according to several dinner attendees.
 
2017-10-03 11:59:49 AM  
One particularly egregious aspect of this "reform" is the claim that eliminating brackets somehow simplifies taxes for "average Americans." How exactly? The average American taxpayer reads their tax burden off of a table in the instructions. You could have 1 bracket or 1,000, and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference as far as how hard it is to do one's taxes.

It's a pretty transparent effort to eliminate upper (and lower) end brackets. Of course, as most Americans are easily-led, incurious people, I'm sure tons think it's a great idea.
 
2017-10-03 12:00:54 PM  

freidog: nmrsnr: Since the tax system is marginal, there is literally no tax scheme which benefits the middle class which doesn't equally benefit the wealthy, and any tax cut to the top bracket would only go to the wealthy enough to utilize it.

The only way that tax reform isn't disproportionate to the rich is to reduce the marginal rate for
the middle-income brackets and then to increase the rates for the top brackets to recoup the discount on the income in the middle range.

I would advocate returning to where there were top marginal tax brackets that impact primarily the 1%, or the 0.1%.
Top tax brackets often started at 300,000 - 400,000 in the 1950s, (That's 3-4 million in 2017 dollars)
The idea that dollar 350,001 (or whatever Trump's 35% bracket will start at) and 300,000,001 should be taxed the same is a big part of how we've allowed the rich to push more of the tax burden onto the middle class.

I'm not going to say a return to 90% tax rates is a good idea, but you can offset a lot of modest working class and middle class tax cuts by upping the rate from 35% to 42% at 1 million and 50% and 5 million.


The problem with your plan is that an overwhelming majority of people making over $5 million / year aren't making that money through sources that are taxable as earned income.
 
2017-10-03 12:07:10 PM  

Nadie_AZ: And this sort of sh*t is why we will see more extremists get elected.


But the extremists just go on to vote for more tax cuts to the rich and government subsidies to business owners who just keep the extra profits.
 
2017-10-03 12:10:32 PM  
I know that we Liberals are the low-information types who are dumb about things like this, but how else is someone supposed to view the abolition of the AMT and Estate Taxes, as well as dropping the top marginal tax rate as anything but a benefit to the rich and wealthy?  Only the rich and wealthy ever end up touching those thresholds.  I'm not against deficit spending as stimulus, but as rewind2846 pointed out, what stimulus are we expecting by juicing up heirs' fortunes?  We have a consumer-driven economy, so the best stimulus is that which will end up the quickest in the registers of American businesses, not in the rainy day funds of some already-wealthy blueblood.
 
2017-10-03 12:14:43 PM  
I thought the old justification was that it's a good thing that most of the tax benefits go to the rich, because they are better able to invest it. Are they realizing that people no longer fall for that anymore?
 
2017-10-03 12:16:14 PM  

Julius Pleaseher: [img.fark.net image 249x187]


Are you trying to say that the NRA is good at ...shooting down arguments?
 
2017-10-03 12:17:30 PM  

Pazuzu Smith-Jones: Once we're all rich, people who opposed those tax cuts are going to feel really stupid.


The last thing the rich want is for everyone else to be rich too. Not only would the elites be less snowflaky, but the inflationary effects would be devastating.

No, they say they want everyone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but they most definitely don't. They do enjoy watching everyone try though, Thunderdome style.
 
2017-10-03 12:18:51 PM  
Telling people what the Republican tax "reform" plan actually DOES, much like telling people what industrial and vehicle pollution actually DOES, is clearly a politically motivated Democratic plot.
 
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