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(USA Today)   If Batman asked Catwoman to marry him, what would she say? (spoilers)   ( usatoday.com) divider line
    More: Silly, Batman, book Batman No., Batman issue, contains significant details, Gotham City, writer Tom King, Gotham City Bed, Superhero  
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2599 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 03 Oct 2017 at 10:50 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-10-03 10:43:26 PM  

ElectricPeterTork: et Marvel did Ms. Marvel so right...

Take an abandoned second stringer name, fill the position with a new character that you can make whatever you want, profit.


Damn right that's how you do it. You want a "new" legacy character? Make Renee Montoya The Question. Second and Third Stringers can OFTEN be done well with a race/sex lift.

But ordinarily, I think it's demeaning to all minorities and underrepresented groups in comics to make them piggyback off of the old standard characters. If they succeed (well Batman is a successful character anyway, and Bat Manuel will get his run until the writers get bored) and if they fail (nobody wants gay women in comics because lesbian Wolverine failed)
 
2017-10-03 11:35:32 PM  

Fano: ElectricPeterTork: et Marvel did Ms. Marvel so right...

Take an abandoned second stringer name, fill the position with a new character that you can make whatever you want, profit.

Damn right that's how you do it. You want a "new" legacy character? Make Renee Montoya The Question. Second and Third Stringers can OFTEN be done well with a race/sex lift.

But ordinarily, I think it's demeaning to all minorities and underrepresented groups in comics to make them piggyback off of the old standard characters. If they succeed (well Batman is a successful character anyway, and Bat Manuel will get his run until the writers get bored) and if they fail (nobody wants gay women in comics because lesbian Wolverine failed)


It worked for Miles Morales, though.  He actually turned out to be very popular.  Of course, he started by replacing an alternate universe's Peter Parker, so fans still had the original one around in the 616.

But it is disheartening to see how they went from doing two legacy characters so well (Miles Morales and Kamala Khan) to failing miserably with a bunch of others.  (Side note: I do really enjoy Jason Aaron's Thor arc, since it is a cool examination of the whole idea of deities and worthiness.  Also, I am a sucker for characters with cancer - I love Deadpool and my favorite comic miniseries is... one that I won't name here since cancer comes as a surprise reveal later in the series - so the added drama of the powers exacerbating Jane Foster's condition has me riveted.)  Riri Williams came out of nowhere and Amadeus Cho has had enough experience with Banner to know that giving himself those powers would be a HUGE mistake.

I also wish Wiccan and Hulkling could find a bigger audience.  They're such a well developed couple, and are much better gay representation than Bendis' ham-handed outing of Iceman (though Sina Grace seems to be trying his best with the character's solo series.)
 
2017-10-03 11:43:12 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-03 11:51:24 PM  

CT Zeal: Also, I am a sucker for characters with cancer


You've read The Life and Death of Captain Marvel trade then, right?
 
2017-10-03 11:53:36 PM  

ElectricPeterTork: CT Zeal: Also, I am a sucker for characters with cancer

You've read The Life and Death of Captain Marvel trade then, right?


Of course.
 
2017-10-03 11:54:18 PM  
As she's pegging him on their wedding night all I can think of is him saying, in his Batman voice, "So that's what that feels like...".
 
2017-10-03 11:59:49 PM  
Meow?
 
2017-10-04 12:53:33 AM  

Fano: ElectricPeterTork: et Marvel did Ms. Marvel so right...

Take an abandoned second stringer name, fill the position with a new character that you can make whatever you want, profit.

Damn right that's how you do it. You want a "new" legacy character? Make Renee Montoya The Question. Second and Third Stringers can OFTEN be done well with a race/sex lift.

But ordinarily, I think it's demeaning to all minorities and underrepresented groups in comics to make them piggyback off of the old standard characters. If they succeed (well Batman is a successful character anyway, and Bat Manuel will get his run until the writers get bored) and if they fail (nobody wants gay women in comics because lesbian Wolverine failed)


Yeah, the Second and Third Stringers is the key for rotating people in an out, or something like the Lantern Corps.
 
2017-10-04 01:13:30 AM  

WordsnCollision: [img.fark.net image 500x266]


Funny, that's what i said to my exwife when she served me papers.
 
2017-10-04 05:34:08 AM  

slapmastered: No real surprise. Hell, I've known for years that if Bats ever would/could, Selina would be the only possible choice.


Except for Julie Madison, Vicki Vale, Talia al Ghul, Pamela Isley, Linda Page, Kathy Kane (who actually is married to Batman in a load of splinter continuities), Zatanna, Silver St. Cloud, Rachel Caspian (to whom he actually proposed iirc before standard soap-opera shenanigans occurred), Natalia Knight, Julia Pennyworth, Vesper Fairchild (hm, Moench was kind of obsessed with batman's sex life for some reason), Wonder Woman (both the silliest and most serious relationship at the same time), Black Canary (ugh, Frank Miller, but technically canon.  Ugh.), Lorna Stone (also involved a potential proposal and soap operatics), Andrea Beaumont (actually proposed and accepted before the soap came into play), and about a hundred others that only got one-off mentions instead of actual dedicated arcs.

The "Batman meets a girl and considers settling down permanently" thing isn't really new and exciting.  And by 'isn't really new and exciting' I mean it's a stock Batman sub-plot that's pulled out for padding every time a writer's ideas are running a bit thin, meaning basically once very two to five years for most of the last century.

Good luck with the romantic thing, because if it actually gets to the point of a completed marriage Selina Kyle will be stuffed into a refrigerator within a year if not within an issue.  We know because we've seen literally this exact plot upwards of twenty times now.
 
2017-10-04 05:47:08 AM  

Dark Side Of The Spoon: Right, because the only reason people like a character is.....their power set?


In fairness, the single most successful/popular legacy character on at least the DC side and possibly in the entirety of comics not only did a race lift with each reboot, it changed the power set and even the genre of the book.

//Blue Beetle, obviously.  Connected literally by the name, admiration for the previous holder of the title, and zero other things.  Well, a bunch of time-travel and retcons, but those don't really count.
 
2017-10-04 08:24:17 AM  

Dark Side Of The Spoon: ElectricPeterTork: Rwa2play: Flappyhead: imashark: Rwa2play: Which is (partially) why some Spider-Man fans want to wage jihadagainst Queseda for "One More Day".

Man I knew Peter's marriage was retconned out of the universe, but after reading the wiki page, the way they appear to have did it seems so... artless.

And to top it all off they could have had a much, MUCH better ending.  Peter lets Aunt May die, cutting the last line to his pre-Spiderman days and now Mary Jane is his only grounding mechanism.  He has to take those last few painful steps into true adulthood almost completely on his own.  That's a lot of ground to till if you do it right.

There's so many directions that Marvel could take to make their stories hella interesting and grounding.  Yet we're still watching a universe where Spidey's single (again), the X-men are hunted (again), and they can't tell a good Dr. Strange story if it killed them.

And a character either has to be disgraced and replaced by a multicultural multiethnic dartboard choice Mary Sue, or the replacement has to be replaced by the original old white guy because sales dropped like a rock... depending upon which week this is.

I don't know why it's so hard for comic book execs to understand that when people say they want more representation in comics they DON'T WANT YOU TO REPLACE EXISTING POPULAR CHARACTERS, NO JUST STOP IT. Like Wonder Woman and Catwoman and Harley....they are original characters, not replacements. Or Luke Cage. Or Black Panther. Rogue. Jean Grey. Storm. Pick any minority/female character that is popular, they start as their own character. Want to connect them to an existing character? Okay, look at She-Hulk. She didn't replace the Hulk...she just became a slightly different Hulk. Or Supergirl, she didn't need to become the new Superman. People want you to create NEW characters, not take away existing popular ones and replace them.


You say that but history has shown that successful new characters are few and far between
 
2017-10-04 01:08:42 PM  

SuperChuck: Dark Side Of The Spoon: ElectricPeterTork: Rwa2play: Flappyhead: imashark: Rwa2play: Which is (partially) why some Spider-Man fans want to wage jihadagainst Queseda for "One More Day".

Man I knew Peter's marriage was retconned out of the universe, but after reading the wiki page, the way they appear to have did it seems so... artless.

And to top it all off they could have had a much, MUCH better ending.  Peter lets Aunt May die, cutting the last line to his pre-Spiderman days and now Mary Jane is his only grounding mechanism.  He has to take those last few painful steps into true adulthood almost completely on his own.  That's a lot of ground to till if you do it right.

There's so many directions that Marvel could take to make their stories hella interesting and grounding.  Yet we're still watching a universe where Spidey's single (again), the X-men are hunted (again), and they can't tell a good Dr. Strange story if it killed them.

And a character either has to be disgraced and replaced by a multicultural multiethnic dartboard choice Mary Sue, or the replacement has to be replaced by the original old white guy because sales dropped like a rock... depending upon which week this is.

I don't know why it's so hard for comic book execs to understand that when people say they want more representation in comics they DON'T WANT YOU TO REPLACE EXISTING POPULAR CHARACTERS, NO JUST STOP IT. Like Wonder Woman and Catwoman and Harley....they are original characters, not replacements. Or Luke Cage. Or Black Panther. Rogue. Jean Grey. Storm. Pick any minority/female character that is popular, they start as their own character. Want to connect them to an existing character? Okay, look at She-Hulk. She didn't replace the Hulk...she just became a slightly different Hulk. Or Supergirl, she didn't need to become the new Superman. People want you to create NEW characters, not take away existing popular ones and replace them.

You say that but history has shown that successful new characters are few and far between


68.media.tumblr.comView Full Size

This is the life we chose. The only guarantee is that none of us will have sales over fifty thousand.

Good luck with your zero sum game. I'm sure that Doc Savage, the Phantom, or the Spirit would be successful now if only they'd been rebooted endlessly.
 
2017-10-04 02:52:24 PM  

SuperChuck: Dark Side Of The Spoon: ElectricPeterTork: Rwa2play: Flappyhead: imashark: Rwa2play: Which is (partially) why some Spider-Man fans want to wage jihadagainst Queseda for "One More Day".

Man I knew Peter's marriage was retconned out of the universe, but after reading the wiki page, the way they appear to have did it seems so... artless.

And to top it all off they could have had a much, MUCH better ending.  Peter lets Aunt May die, cutting the last line to his pre-Spiderman days and now Mary Jane is his only grounding mechanism.  He has to take those last few painful steps into true adulthood almost completely on his own.  That's a lot of ground to till if you do it right.

There's so many directions that Marvel could take to make their stories hella interesting and grounding.  Yet we're still watching a universe where Spidey's single (again), the X-men are hunted (again), and they can't tell a good Dr. Strange story if it killed them.

And a character either has to be disgraced and replaced by a multicultural multiethnic dartboard choice Mary Sue, or the replacement has to be replaced by the original old white guy because sales dropped like a rock... depending upon which week this is.

I don't know why it's so hard for comic book execs to understand that when people say they want more representation in comics they DON'T WANT YOU TO REPLACE EXISTING POPULAR CHARACTERS, NO JUST STOP IT. Like Wonder Woman and Catwoman and Harley....they are original characters, not replacements. Or Luke Cage. Or Black Panther. Rogue. Jean Grey. Storm. Pick any minority/female character that is popular, they start as their own character. Want to connect them to an existing character? Okay, look at She-Hulk. She didn't replace the Hulk...she just became a slightly different Hulk. Or Supergirl, she didn't need to become the new Superman. People want you to create NEW characters, not take away existing popular ones and replace them.

You say that but history has shown that successful new c ...


Well...that's just how it is? Successful new books are somewhat rare, most of them don't go on the be super popular. Same thing with restaurants. Or tv shows. Nothing is guaranteed success. It's the most natural and expected thing that not every new character becomes popular, so you keep at it until something works. If you have to create a handful of diverse characters before one of them becomes popular, so what? There were plenty of white guy characters who got created and weren't super popular.
 
2017-10-04 11:58:06 PM  

Dark Side Of The Spoon: SuperChuck: Dark Side Of The Spoon: ElectricPeterTork: Rwa2play: Flappyhead: imashark: Rwa2play: Which is (partially) why some Spider-Man fans want to wage jihadagainst Queseda for "One More Day".

Man I knew Peter's marriage was retconned out of the universe, but after reading the wiki page, the way they appear to have did it seems so... artless.

And to top it all off they could have had a much, MUCH better ending.  Peter lets Aunt May die, cutting the last line to his pre-Spiderman days and now Mary Jane is his only grounding mechanism.  He has to take those last few painful steps into true adulthood almost completely on his own.  That's a lot of ground to till if you do it right.

There's so many directions that Marvel could take to make their stories hella interesting and grounding.  Yet we're still watching a universe where Spidey's single (again), the X-men are hunted (again), and they can't tell a good Dr. Strange story if it killed them.

And a character either has to be disgraced and replaced by a multicultural multiethnic dartboard choice Mary Sue, or the replacement has to be replaced by the original old white guy because sales dropped like a rock... depending upon which week this is.

I don't know why it's so hard for comic book execs to understand that when people say they want more representation in comics they DON'T WANT YOU TO REPLACE EXISTING POPULAR CHARACTERS, NO JUST STOP IT. Like Wonder Woman and Catwoman and Harley....they are original characters, not replacements. Or Luke Cage. Or Black Panther. Rogue. Jean Grey. Storm. Pick any minority/female character that is popular, they start as their own character. Want to connect them to an existing character? Okay, look at She-Hulk. She didn't replace the Hulk...she just became a slightly different Hulk. Or Supergirl, she didn't need to become the new Superman. People want you to create NEW characters, not take away existing popular ones and replace them.

You say that but history has shown that successful new c ...

Well...that's just how it is? Successful new books are somewhat rare, most of them don't go on the be super popular. Same thing with restaurants. Or tv shows. Nothing is guaranteed success. It's the most natural and expected thing that not every new character becomes popular, so you keep at it until something works. If you have to create a handful of diverse characters before one of them becomes popular, so what? There were plenty of white guy characters who got created and weren't super popular.


Let's not make a new restaurant, we can turn McDonalds into Chipotle.
 
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