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(Wired)   In light of last night's shooting, here's more good news: It's now frighteningly easy to make untraceable guns in the privacy of your home   ( wired.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Ghost Gunner, Firearm, gun control, Defense Distributed, Gun politics in the United States, Gun politics, ghost gun, ghost gun ban  
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1331 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Oct 2017 at 10:09 PM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2017-10-02 10:41:13 PM  
7 votes:
Mass shooters usually don't give a shiat about traceability.
2017-10-02 08:09:56 PM  
6 votes:
Ah yes, the obligatory scare articles after a mass shooting to drive click revenue.

Did you know you can build a Sten machine gun from a piece of muffler tubing & buy the rest of the parts online?

Doesn't mean you should be scared of all the out of work automotive workers in Detroit
2017-10-02 10:40:37 PM  
5 votes:
I'm a machinist and yes, I can absolutely make an effective weapon, all I need are blueprints and that's easy enough.  But those 80% lowers have been around for decades, the media just now caught up.  I'm a gun collector and I was an NRA member up until Heston's stupid shiat and I am absolutely for a reasonable level of gun control.  I'm even for a reasonable level of guns that are off the table for civilians.  Yes, I'm aware that bad guys will have them but hey, there aren't that many bad guys and I have a CCL so I'm not that worried if they do.  If we have to license for cars and aircraft, guns should need it to with all the testing and proof of safety that goes along with it.  I'm not for stricter sentences for parents who leave guns accessible to children, but I am for enforcing the law more strictly.
2017-10-02 08:30:11 PM  
5 votes:
So? Apparently we're okay with little kids dying on occasion so we can have our pow pow boom booms.
2017-10-03 11:38:50 AM  
4 votes:

ds615: themindiswatching: So? Apparently we're okay with little kids dying on occasion so we can have our pow pow boom booms.

So?
You're okay with kids dying so you can have your vroom vroom.
It's a shame hypocrisy isn't lethal.


Exactly.  Dickwad in Nice took out far more people in much less time with a silly truck.  Las Vegas guy was an amateur.

img.fark.net

2017-10-02 10:39:43 PM  
4 votes:

Voiceofreason01: Wenchmaster: Essentially true. Any half-assed machinist can manufacture functional firearms with only a couple of commonly-available machines.

"Functional" is not necessarily the same as "effective". The better the raw materials and the greater the machinist's skill, the better the resulting firearm. Having a diagram of the parts with precise measurements also helps (or the tools to measure each part of an existing, disassembled firearm).

There are millions of people around the world with the ability to build functional firearms- even full-auto firearms. Usable technical drawings are widely available, and there are no restrictions on who is permitted to own a lathe, mill, and drill press.

The reason we are not awash in home-made firearms is a combination of convenience and the fact most machinists can't be assed to do it. They get paid better money with fewer potential legal issues for boring out cylinders, turning brake rotors, manufacturing parts for ordinary customers, etc.

The article is about a company that sells an automated milling machine specifically for manufacturing firearms. packaged a 2.5D Hobbyist's router with metal cutting bits,
open source software and some pre-posted programs and acted like they did something original.


FTFY. To call this thing a milling machine is pushing it. To expect a firearm frame made by this thing to be functional past a single mag without at least a couple dozen hours worth of fitting and a trip to an anodizing tank is quite frankly naive. The only metal the spindle has enough HP to handle is aluminum, and not even the series usually used for firearm parts, but the soft gummy crap used for light sheet-metal. You could literally go to a hobbyist woodworking shop and pick up the same machine, the only difference is a coat of paint.

You're better off casting your own receivers and milling them out with a manual mill, that you could get for the same cost as this machine if you were willing to go used. You can make your own forge out of coffee cans and jury-rig a propane burner and get better results with a wooden cast-form. THAT'S how crappy this "Ghost-Gun" machine is.
2017-10-02 08:37:06 PM  
4 votes:
Essentially true. Any half-assed machinist can manufacture functional firearms with only a couple of commonly-available machines.

"Functional" is not necessarily the same as "effective". The better the raw materials and the greater the machinist's skill, the better the resulting firearm. Having a diagram of the parts with precise measurements also helps (or the tools to measure each part of an existing, disassembled firearm).

There are millions of people around the world with the ability to build functional firearms- even full-auto firearms. Usable technical drawings are widely available, and there are no restrictions on who is permitted to own a lathe, mill, and drill press.

The reason we are not awash in home-made firearms is a combination of convenience and the fact most machinists can't be assed to do it. They get paid better money with fewer potential legal issues for boring out cylinders, turning brake rotors, manufacturing parts for ordinary customers, etc.
2017-10-03 06:44:51 AM  
3 votes:

themindiswatching: So? Apparently we're okay with little kids dying on occasion so we can have our pow pow boom booms.


So?
You're okay with kids dying so you can have your vroom vroom.
It's a shame hypocrisy isn't lethal.
2017-10-02 11:01:41 PM  
3 votes:
I think it's funny when news articles act like old news is shockingly current.

My friends and I made "80% lower" AR-15s years ago.  All of our sons made their own, too.  It's not much more difficult than making a pinewood derby car.

And you know what we do with them?  Target shooting.  And simply spending time together as parents to children, and friends among friends.
2017-10-02 08:44:01 PM  
3 votes:

Wenchmaster: Essentially true. Any half-assed machinist can manufacture functional firearms with only a couple of commonly-available machines.

"Functional" is not necessarily the same as "effective". The better the raw materials and the greater the machinist's skill, the better the resulting firearm. Having a diagram of the parts with precise measurements also helps (or the tools to measure each part of an existing, disassembled firearm).

There are millions of people around the world with the ability to build functional firearms- even full-auto firearms. Usable technical drawings are widely available, and there are no restrictions on who is permitted to own a lathe, mill, and drill press.

The reason we are not awash in home-made firearms is a combination of convenience and the fact most machinists can't be assed to do it. They get paid better money with fewer potential legal issues for boring out cylinders, turning brake rotors, manufacturing parts for ordinary customers, etc.


The article is about a company that sells an automated milling machine specifically for manufacturing firearms.
2017-10-02 09:55:38 PM  
2 votes:
This is the last thing we need to worry about, gun control-wise.  But I do agree with the serial numbering.
2017-10-03 10:32:45 PM  
1 vote:
The people that are doing mass shootings today are the same people that used to assassinate celebrities before the media seized on mass shootings as the way to gain instant and permanent notoriety. They're crazy, enraged, and they're willing to generate negative attention because it's still a form of attention.

The link in the chain that I suggest we try to break is the one where society reinforces the message that slaughtering a bunch of innocent people is a path to self-actualization. Stop making murderers into quasi-celebrities. Stop talking about them. Stop pondering their motivations, digging into their social media accounts and interviewing their childhood friends. Act like these people don't exist. Stop pontificating on whether life can ever be the same again.

Other than simply reporting the basic facts of the events, and promoting efforts to get aid, health care and support to the victims, don't make these tragedies part of the national conversation. It may seem like it's helping, but it's doing the opposite. It's drawing more narcissistic lunatics like moths to a flame.

You're reinforcing the idea that if I go out and hurt a bunch of people, that my life will finally have an impact--that everyone will finally see how important I am. This is the enemy. This is what is killing our friends and neighbors. Radical, deluded narcissism.

These are people who really do want to watch the world burn--as long as whoever's left knows they lit the match.

Guns are orthogonal to the problem. There are plenty of methods that can be used to hurt crowds of people--some, like speeding vehicles, are alarmingly close at hand--guns just happen to be the one that the media has popularized. The archetype of the crazed killer with a gun has soaked into the national consciousness, but it's really just the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man. We've chosen the form of our own destructor.
2017-10-03 08:02:58 PM  
1 vote:

vpb: HighlanderRPI: Ah yes, the obligatory scare articles after a mass shooting to drive click revenue.

Did you know you can build a Sten machine gun from a piece of muffler tubing & buy the rest of the parts online?

Doesn't mean you should be scared of all the out of work automotive workers in Detroit

No, it means that we need tighter gun laws.


I'm a gun nut but if happily support and Constitutional law that can reasonably be implemented and will reduce the number of mass shootings. What do you suggest?
2017-10-03 04:15:53 PM  
1 vote:

wildcardjack: 3D printed guns? There's a shiatload of slightly dated CNC mills and technical ovens you could produce some serious hardware in a light industrial park space.


Uncounted thousands of pounds (tons?) of illegal drugs and 10's of thousands of people are smuggled into this country every year. There's no need to make an illegal firearm. Outlaw them all and they'll still flow into this country like water through a sieve.

/ not talking about gun control of any type, pro or con
// just saying you shouldn't get your hopes up that things are going to change for the better
2017-10-03 12:08:21 PM  
1 vote:

Chevello: Does it have to be an AR-15, or could it be a Ruger 10/22 with some accessories to make it look like an AR-15? Could it be a Marlin 60 without any accessories that you shoot targets with?

Sure, it's cool to shoot targets with "the same gun they use in the military" but if shooting targets is the point, why does it have to be something easily converted to full auto?


not to say anything bad about the marlin model 60, or the 10/22 (honest, they keep having babies in my safe, I don't just buy more in different configs) but you're comparing razor scooters to nascar. or if you're into expensive ARs, razor scooters to F1. I'm pleased as punch to hear "PING" with a bolt action 22 firing subsonics through a silencer. but there's a different kind of good feels from hitting a clay pigeon on a stand from a distance with an AR (especially if it's one of my SBRs with one of my silencers).
just different kinds of plinking

69gnarkill69: Exactly.  Dickwad in Nice took out far more people in much less time with a silly truck.  Las Vegas guy was an amateur.


I have been on the strip in Vegas and I have been on the strip in Nice during bastille day (pre incident). it is wholly inconceivable to me that somebody could even consider killing innocent people who are just having fun and minding their own business.
2017-10-03 12:23:43 AM  
1 vote:

Russ1642: Mass shooters usually don't give a shiat about traceability.


Well, how about we try something to stop them from becoming mass shooters.
2017-10-03 12:16:37 AM  
1 vote:

fickenchucker: I think it's funny when news articles act like old news is shockingly current.

My friends and I made "80% lower" AR-15s years ago.  All of our sons made their own, too.  It's not much more difficult than making a pinewood derby car.

And you know what we do with them?  Target shooting.  And simply spending time together as parents to children, and friends among friends.


^^^ This. I have built many AR platform guns from 80% lowers. I enjoy the building process as much as shooting them, and I can build exactly what I want with MY customization's and not be held to what the manufacturers want to sell me, and at a much cheaper price. I only shoot at the range, or at the occasional coyote that tries to get the chickens or the goats.
2017-10-02 11:59:15 PM  
1 vote:
Accurate 3D milling machines and printers have been around for a while to production houses and people with a couple hundred thousand dollars laying around.

People are beginning to realize that accurate 3D milling has become available to the mass market at an affordable price. Do I need a 3D milling machine for my home? No, but I could get one for $10,000 that is accurate enough for any hobby project and a lot of precision work.

Are these machines accurate enough to produce gun receivers? Yes, but.... Its a throw away weapon. This weapon isn't made for endurance, it made for one engagement. The moment it fails you are throwing it away and you had better have a back up.

So if you want to outfit an "untraceable army" start milling aluminum blocks for receivers and figure out a way to order all the other parts in bulk without someone twigging to the fact that someone ordered all the parts for 200 rifles, except the receiver.

I expect the real discussion will get underway when a company like DeskTop Metal has their mass production printers hit the street (which is by 1st quarter 2018). Desktop metal can manufacture in 20 different metal flavors. Some crazy fool is going to 3D print a titanium gun, just because he can. I think the real issue will be when one of these printers can print all the parts in a single print run, except specialty parts like springs.
Or get the FormOne Fuse1 for all of the nonmetal parts (hardened nylon) like handles, stocks, clips.

The fear isn't that someone can produce one gun. It is that with the advances in 3D printing, anyone can mass produce guns. That technology isn't quite there yet for regular civilians. But for anyone that can afford a $100,000 3D metal printer and a $10,000 laser sinter nylon printer you can mass produce guns (some assembly required, specialty parts need to be ordered: springs).
2017-10-02 11:32:57 PM  
1 vote:

Biscuitus: This text is now purple: Its easier to make a bomb.

And knives are just trivial.

It maybe easy to make a bomb but the person is just as likely to blow themselves up, ala The Weathermen.


I was gifted a copy of the Anarchists cookbook in college, and from seeing similar stuff on BBSs in the 90s I can attest they are pretty much schematics for getting dopers to blow themselves up.
2017-10-02 11:30:24 PM  
1 vote:

This text is now purple: Its easier to make a bomb.

And knives are just trivial.


It maybe easy to make a bomb but the person is just as likely to blow themselves up, ala The Weathermen.
2017-10-02 10:52:06 PM  
1 vote:

Biscuitus: I'm a machinist and yes, I can absolutely make an effective weapon, all I need are blueprints and that's easy enough.  But those 80% lowers have been around for decades, the media just now caught up.  I'm a gun collector and I was an NRA member up until Heston's stupid shiat and I am absolutely for a reasonable level of gun control.  I'm even for a reasonable level of guns that are off the table for civilians.  Yes, I'm aware that bad guys will have them but hey, there aren't that many bad guys and I have a CCL so I'm not that worried if they do.  If we have to license for cars and aircraft, guns should need it to with all the testing and proof of safety that goes along with it.  I'm not for stricter sentences for parents who leave guns accessible to children, but I am for enforcing the law more strictly.


You can get barrels cheap, just design something around a Glock barrel. No prints needed. Just be sure to incorporate some form of battery safety and trigger/sear interrupt. One-off guns can practically be made at a whim like you would whip up a batch of pasta sauce with tomato paste and spices. It's mass production where you have to start really paying attention.
2017-10-02 10:51:00 PM  
1 vote:
Its easier to make a bomb.

And knives are just trivial.
2017-10-02 10:35:07 PM  
1 vote:
Sounds like a good way to avoid the national gun registry.
2017-10-02 08:28:58 PM  
1 vote:

HighlanderRPI: Ah yes, the obligatory scare articles after a mass shooting to drive click revenue.

Did you know you can build a Sten machine gun from a piece of muffler tubing & buy the rest of the parts online?

Doesn't mean you should be scared of all the out of work automotive workers in Detroit


what's the worst that could happen?
LAS VEGAS SHOOTING HORRIFYING FOOTAGE CAUGHT ON CAMERA
Youtube JpsqirFRdTo
 
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