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(Wired)   In light of last night's shooting, here's more good news: It's now frighteningly easy to make untraceable guns in the privacy of your home   ( wired.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Ghost Gunner, Firearm, gun control, Defense Distributed, Gun politics in the United States, Gun politics, ghost gun, ghost gun ban  
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1334 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Oct 2017 at 10:09 PM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-10-02 08:09:56 PM  
Ah yes, the obligatory scare articles after a mass shooting to drive click revenue.

Did you know you can build a Sten machine gun from a piece of muffler tubing & buy the rest of the parts online?

Doesn't mean you should be scared of all the out of work automotive workers in Detroit
 
2017-10-02 08:28:58 PM  

HighlanderRPI: Ah yes, the obligatory scare articles after a mass shooting to drive click revenue.

Did you know you can build a Sten machine gun from a piece of muffler tubing & buy the rest of the parts online?

Doesn't mean you should be scared of all the out of work automotive workers in Detroit


what's the worst that could happen?
LAS VEGAS SHOOTING HORRIFYING FOOTAGE CAUGHT ON CAMERA
Youtube JpsqirFRdTo
 
2017-10-02 08:30:11 PM  
So? Apparently we're okay with little kids dying on occasion so we can have our pow pow boom booms.
 
2017-10-02 08:37:06 PM  
Essentially true. Any half-assed machinist can manufacture functional firearms with only a couple of commonly-available machines.

"Functional" is not necessarily the same as "effective". The better the raw materials and the greater the machinist's skill, the better the resulting firearm. Having a diagram of the parts with precise measurements also helps (or the tools to measure each part of an existing, disassembled firearm).

There are millions of people around the world with the ability to build functional firearms- even full-auto firearms. Usable technical drawings are widely available, and there are no restrictions on who is permitted to own a lathe, mill, and drill press.

The reason we are not awash in home-made firearms is a combination of convenience and the fact most machinists can't be assed to do it. They get paid better money with fewer potential legal issues for boring out cylinders, turning brake rotors, manufacturing parts for ordinary customers, etc.
 
2017-10-02 08:44:01 PM  

Wenchmaster: Essentially true. Any half-assed machinist can manufacture functional firearms with only a couple of commonly-available machines.

"Functional" is not necessarily the same as "effective". The better the raw materials and the greater the machinist's skill, the better the resulting firearm. Having a diagram of the parts with precise measurements also helps (or the tools to measure each part of an existing, disassembled firearm).

There are millions of people around the world with the ability to build functional firearms- even full-auto firearms. Usable technical drawings are widely available, and there are no restrictions on who is permitted to own a lathe, mill, and drill press.

The reason we are not awash in home-made firearms is a combination of convenience and the fact most machinists can't be assed to do it. They get paid better money with fewer potential legal issues for boring out cylinders, turning brake rotors, manufacturing parts for ordinary customers, etc.


The article is about a company that sells an automated milling machine specifically for manufacturing firearms.
 
2017-10-02 09:16:09 PM  
Pffft we already know how easy it is to make explosives.
 
2017-10-02 09:55:38 PM  
This is the last thing we need to worry about, gun control-wise.  But I do agree with the serial numbering.
 
2017-10-02 09:57:48 PM  
I bought a shotgun at a garage sale.  The seller also gave me many rounds, unsolicited.
 
2017-10-02 10:10:35 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: The seller also gave me many rounds, unsolicited.


Solicitation is legal where you are?
 
2017-10-02 10:20:44 PM  

HighlanderRPI: Ah yes, the obligatory scare articles after a mass shooting to drive click revenue.

 
2017-10-02 10:35:07 PM  
Sounds like a good way to avoid the national gun registry.
 
2017-10-02 10:39:43 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Wenchmaster: Essentially true. Any half-assed machinist can manufacture functional firearms with only a couple of commonly-available machines.

"Functional" is not necessarily the same as "effective". The better the raw materials and the greater the machinist's skill, the better the resulting firearm. Having a diagram of the parts with precise measurements also helps (or the tools to measure each part of an existing, disassembled firearm).

There are millions of people around the world with the ability to build functional firearms- even full-auto firearms. Usable technical drawings are widely available, and there are no restrictions on who is permitted to own a lathe, mill, and drill press.

The reason we are not awash in home-made firearms is a combination of convenience and the fact most machinists can't be assed to do it. They get paid better money with fewer potential legal issues for boring out cylinders, turning brake rotors, manufacturing parts for ordinary customers, etc.

The article is about a company that sells an automated milling machine specifically for manufacturing firearms. packaged a 2.5D Hobbyist's router with metal cutting bits,
open source software and some pre-posted programs and acted like they did something original.


FTFY. To call this thing a milling machine is pushing it. To expect a firearm frame made by this thing to be functional past a single mag without at least a couple dozen hours worth of fitting and a trip to an anodizing tank is quite frankly naive. The only metal the spindle has enough HP to handle is aluminum, and not even the series usually used for firearm parts, but the soft gummy crap used for light sheet-metal. You could literally go to a hobbyist woodworking shop and pick up the same machine, the only difference is a coat of paint.

You're better off casting your own receivers and milling them out with a manual mill, that you could get for the same cost as this machine if you were willing to go used. You can make your own forge out of coffee cans and jury-rig a propane burner and get better results with a wooden cast-form. THAT'S how crappy this "Ghost-Gun" machine is.
 
2017-10-02 10:40:37 PM  
I'm a machinist and yes, I can absolutely make an effective weapon, all I need are blueprints and that's easy enough.  But those 80% lowers have been around for decades, the media just now caught up.  I'm a gun collector and I was an NRA member up until Heston's stupid shiat and I am absolutely for a reasonable level of gun control.  I'm even for a reasonable level of guns that are off the table for civilians.  Yes, I'm aware that bad guys will have them but hey, there aren't that many bad guys and I have a CCL so I'm not that worried if they do.  If we have to license for cars and aircraft, guns should need it to with all the testing and proof of safety that goes along with it.  I'm not for stricter sentences for parents who leave guns accessible to children, but I am for enforcing the law more strictly.
 
2017-10-02 10:41:13 PM  
Mass shooters usually don't give a shiat about traceability.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2017-10-02 10:44:26 PM  

HighlanderRPI: Ah yes, the obligatory scare articles after a mass shooting to drive click revenue.

Did you know you can build a Sten machine gun from a piece of muffler tubing & buy the rest of the parts online?

Doesn't mean you should be scared of all the out of work automotive workers in Detroit


No, it means that we need tighter gun laws.
 
2017-10-02 10:51:00 PM  
Its easier to make a bomb.

And knives are just trivial.
 
2017-10-02 10:52:06 PM  

Biscuitus: I'm a machinist and yes, I can absolutely make an effective weapon, all I need are blueprints and that's easy enough.  But those 80% lowers have been around for decades, the media just now caught up.  I'm a gun collector and I was an NRA member up until Heston's stupid shiat and I am absolutely for a reasonable level of gun control.  I'm even for a reasonable level of guns that are off the table for civilians.  Yes, I'm aware that bad guys will have them but hey, there aren't that many bad guys and I have a CCL so I'm not that worried if they do.  If we have to license for cars and aircraft, guns should need it to with all the testing and proof of safety that goes along with it.  I'm not for stricter sentences for parents who leave guns accessible to children, but I am for enforcing the law more strictly.


You can get barrels cheap, just design something around a Glock barrel. No prints needed. Just be sure to incorporate some form of battery safety and trigger/sear interrupt. One-off guns can practically be made at a whim like you would whip up a batch of pasta sauce with tomato paste and spices. It's mass production where you have to start really paying attention.
 
2017-10-02 10:52:38 PM  
Something something Pandora's Box something.
 
2017-10-02 10:55:49 PM  
3D printed guns? There's a shiatload of slightly dated CNC mills and technical ovens you could produce some serious hardware in a light industrial park space.
 
2017-10-02 11:01:41 PM  
I think it's funny when news articles act like old news is shockingly current.

My friends and I made "80% lower" AR-15s years ago.  All of our sons made their own, too.  It's not much more difficult than making a pinewood derby car.

And you know what we do with them?  Target shooting.  And simply spending time together as parents to children, and friends among friends.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2017-10-02 11:06:12 PM  
Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet:

You can get barrels cheap, just design something around a Glock barrel. No prints needed. Just be sure to incorporate some form of battery safety and trigger/sear interrupt. One-off guns can practically be made at a whim like you would whip up a batch of pasta sauce with tomato paste and spices. It's mass production where you have to start really paying attention.

Or if you want it to be reliable.
 
2017-10-02 11:24:46 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: This is the last thing we need to worry about, gun control-wise.  But I do agree with the serial numbering.


The fact that guns are easy to obtain and most people killing other people aren't planning to outwit Lt Columbo it's pretty much a waste of time.

You might as well say you could drop gorge your own swords.
 
2017-10-02 11:28:52 PM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: You can get barrels cheap, just design something around a Glock barrel. No prints needed. Just be sure to incorporate some form of battery safety and trigger/sear interrupt. One-off guns can practically be made at a whim like you would whip up a batch of pasta sauce with tomato paste and spices. It's mass production where you have to start really paying attention.


If you want a functionable reliable weapon, you need maybe not Glocks set of prints, but you have to be pretty good at measuring things do get all the dimensions right.  And it's because I don't just make marinaras, I make duck l'orange.
 
2017-10-02 11:30:24 PM  

This text is now purple: Its easier to make a bomb.

And knives are just trivial.


It maybe easy to make a bomb but the person is just as likely to blow themselves up, ala The Weathermen.
 
2017-10-02 11:32:57 PM  

Biscuitus: This text is now purple: Its easier to make a bomb.

And knives are just trivial.

It maybe easy to make a bomb but the person is just as likely to blow themselves up, ala The Weathermen.


I was gifted a copy of the Anarchists cookbook in college, and from seeing similar stuff on BBSs in the 90s I can attest they are pretty much schematics for getting dopers to blow themselves up.
 
2017-10-02 11:34:30 PM  

wildcardjack: 3D printed guns? There's a shiatload of slightly dated CNC mills and technical ovens you could produce some serious hardware in a light industrial park space.


3D printer material are crap for guns.  They aren't strong enough.  Laser sintered you might have better luck with and even then you have to do some finish processing.  And all of this is assuming you have the skill to get the material, mill it, heat treat it, finish mill and you'd need a button rifling table for your barrels.  Add about 5 years of machinist training or 10 years of button pushing at a production shop and you could do it.
 
2017-10-02 11:48:00 PM  

Voiceofreason01: The article is about a company that sells an automated milling machine specifically for manufacturing firearms.

Yes, it mills the m1911, which is notoriously finnicky and requires hand fitting by somebody that knows what they're doing before it will be reliable. You can buy a pretty much identical top of the line gun for $1,000 and still have to send it back to the manufacturer or a gunsmith to make it work right. Then it gets dirty and you have to figure out which tolerances are too tight and are getting gummed up by powder residue.

Or you can buy a $50 kit with a hunk of plastic that can be turned into a glock frame with just a few hand tools (hand drill and a file, i believe) then buy all the other parts from pretty much any gun shop, or gun website. and it will most likely run for thousands of rounds without problems.
 
2017-10-02 11:59:15 PM  
Accurate 3D milling machines and printers have been around for a while to production houses and people with a couple hundred thousand dollars laying around.

People are beginning to realize that accurate 3D milling has become available to the mass market at an affordable price. Do I need a 3D milling machine for my home? No, but I could get one for $10,000 that is accurate enough for any hobby project and a lot of precision work.

Are these machines accurate enough to produce gun receivers? Yes, but.... Its a throw away weapon. This weapon isn't made for endurance, it made for one engagement. The moment it fails you are throwing it away and you had better have a back up.

So if you want to outfit an "untraceable army" start milling aluminum blocks for receivers and figure out a way to order all the other parts in bulk without someone twigging to the fact that someone ordered all the parts for 200 rifles, except the receiver.

I expect the real discussion will get underway when a company like DeskTop Metal has their mass production printers hit the street (which is by 1st quarter 2018). Desktop metal can manufacture in 20 different metal flavors. Some crazy fool is going to 3D print a titanium gun, just because he can. I think the real issue will be when one of these printers can print all the parts in a single print run, except specialty parts like springs.
Or get the FormOne Fuse1 for all of the nonmetal parts (hardened nylon) like handles, stocks, clips.

The fear isn't that someone can produce one gun. It is that with the advances in 3D printing, anyone can mass produce guns. That technology isn't quite there yet for regular civilians. But for anyone that can afford a $100,000 3D metal printer and a $10,000 laser sinter nylon printer you can mass produce guns (some assembly required, specialty parts need to be ordered: springs).
 
2017-10-03 12:16:37 AM  

fickenchucker: I think it's funny when news articles act like old news is shockingly current.

My friends and I made "80% lower" AR-15s years ago.  All of our sons made their own, too.  It's not much more difficult than making a pinewood derby car.

And you know what we do with them?  Target shooting.  And simply spending time together as parents to children, and friends among friends.


^^^ This. I have built many AR platform guns from 80% lowers. I enjoy the building process as much as shooting them, and I can build exactly what I want with MY customization's and not be held to what the manufacturers want to sell me, and at a much cheaper price. I only shoot at the range, or at the occasional coyote that tries to get the chickens or the goats.
 
2017-10-03 12:22:29 AM  

DandyDon: fickenchucker: I think it's funny when news articles act like old news is shockingly current.

My friends and I made "80% lower" AR-15s years ago.  All of our sons made their own, too.  It's not much more difficult than making a pinewood derby car.

And you know what we do with them?  Target shooting.  And simply spending time together as parents to children, and friends among friends.

^^^ This. I have built many AR platform guns from 80% lowers. I enjoy the building process as much as shooting them, and I can build exactly what I want with MY customization's and not be held to what the manufacturers want to sell me, and at a much cheaper price. I only shoot at the range, or at the occasional coyote that tries to get the chickens or the goats.


And the 300 AAC is a great hog round. Tasty, tasty, bacon and sausage, and it keeps the beasts out of our garden. They are like pigeons here, a nuisance.
 
2017-10-03 12:23:43 AM  

Russ1642: Mass shooters usually don't give a shiat about traceability.


Well, how about we try something to stop them from becoming mass shooters.
 
2017-10-03 01:30:58 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: Sounds like a good way to avoid the national gun registry.


National gun registries are illegal under the gun control act. State registration on the other hand.. Cali just passed a law that says all your home built firearms need to be serialized and registered. Other states will follow and then the really untraceable ones will come into play. Cause supply side control always fails.
 
2017-10-03 03:48:11 AM  

Unscratchable_Itch: Something something Pandora's Box something.


It opened in china a few centuries ago...
Guns were never so complex as to be difficult to build at home. The technology of each era has generally allowed those with access to information to make a weapon that kept pace with the times.

Traceability only matters for political reasons. There isnt a practical side of trying to register and limit millions of devices or users.  Someone out to kill will likely find an effective mechanism and the perpetrator can have a history so bland that we can neither assign blame nor spot then in advance.   A crackdown on legitimate sources will just drive the industry underground, causing widespread proliferation of unrestricted and untraceable weaponry.
Attempting to close Pandora's box at this point would mean repeating with guns what we've done for the drug war. I doubt anyone's ready for the consequences of that.
 
2017-10-03 05:54:30 AM  

Elfich: The fear isn't that someone can produce one gun. It is that with the advances in 3D printing, anyone can mass produce guns. That technology isn't quite there yet for regular civilians. But for anyone that can afford a $100,000 3D metal printer and a $10,000 laser sinter nylon printer you can mass produce guns (some assembly required, specialty parts need to be ordered: springs).


Any competent machinist can make a fully-functional firearm without using 3D printing. All you need is the metal and one or two machines (depending on how much you want to spend: one lathe and one mill, or a four-axis CNC machine). With those alone, a single machinist can turn out enough parts to assemble several dozen firearms each week. They might end up a bit crude-looking, but they needn't be disposable one-shots. I had a subordinate ask me to build a Sten for her in Texas. I told her "no", because I wasn't interested in running afoul of BATF, but it would have been relatively simple to manufacture a full-auto submachine gun with the machines and metal stock in our shop.
 
2017-10-03 06:44:51 AM  

themindiswatching: So? Apparently we're okay with little kids dying on occasion so we can have our pow pow boom booms.


So?
You're okay with kids dying so you can have your vroom vroom.
It's a shame hypocrisy isn't lethal.
 
2017-10-03 07:18:35 AM  

ThatGuyOverThere: Voiceofreason01: The article is about a company that sells an automated milling machine specifically for manufacturing firearms.
Yes, it mills the m1911, which is notoriously finnicky and requires hand fitting by somebody that knows what they're doing before it will be reliable. You can buy a pretty much identical top of the line gun for $1,000 and still have to send it back to the manufacturer or a gunsmith to make it work right. Then it gets dirty and you have to figure out which tolerances are too tight and are getting gummed up by powder residue.

Or you can buy a $50 kit with a hunk of plastic that can be turned into a glock frame with just a few hand tools (hand drill and a file, i believe) then buy all the other parts from pretty much any gun shop, or gun website. and it will most likely run for thousands of rounds without problems.


For $1,000 these days, you should be able to get a 1911 that runs out of the box. A Kimber Custom II or Springfield Milspec will work without being farked with, and they're available for a little under a K.
 
2017-10-03 07:23:42 AM  
Is it wrong of me to say I want that???
 
2017-10-03 07:28:29 AM  
Don't worry.  There will be a solution.  Which ever one stands to be more profitable.

/top people
 
2017-10-03 09:02:55 AM  

GodComplex: Soup4Bonnie: Sounds like a good way to avoid the national gun registry.

National gun registries are illegal under the gun control act. State registration on the other hand.. Cali just passed a law that says all your home built firearms need to be serialized and registered. Other states will follow and then the really untraceable ones will come into play. Cause supply side control always fails.


Until it's challenged in court.  It's unconstitutional for them to require such nonsense.
 
2017-10-03 09:07:04 AM  

Elfich: Accurate 3D milling machines and printers have been around for a while to production houses and people with a couple hundred thousand dollars laying around.

People are beginning to realize that accurate 3D milling has become available to the mass market at an affordable price. Do I need a 3D milling machine for my home? No, but I could get one for $10,000 that is accurate enough for any hobby project and a lot of precision work.

Are these machines accurate enough to produce gun receivers? Yes, but.... Its a throw away weapon. This weapon isn't made for endurance, it made for one engagement. The moment it fails you are throwing it away and you had better have a back up.

So if you want to outfit an "untraceable army" start milling aluminum blocks for receivers and figure out a way to order all the other parts in bulk without someone twigging to the fact that someone ordered all the parts for 200 rifles, except the receiver.

I expect the real discussion will get underway when a company like DeskTop Metal has their mass production printers hit the street (which is by 1st quarter 2018). Desktop metal can manufacture in 20 different metal flavors. Some crazy fool is going to 3D print a titanium gun, just because he can. I think the real issue will be when one of these printers can print all the parts in a single print run, except specialty parts like springs.
Or get the FormOne Fuse1 for all of the nonmetal parts (hardened nylon) like handles, stocks, clips.

The fear isn't that someone can produce one gun. It is that with the advances in 3D printing, anyone can mass produce guns. That technology isn't quite there yet for regular civilians. But for anyone that can afford a $100,000 3D metal printer and a $10,000 laser sinter nylon printer you can mass produce guns (some assembly required, specialty parts need to be ordered: springs).


That would make you a gun manufacturer and you have to have special licenses to do that.  Unless you just wanted a huge-ass aresenal for your own personal use.

I made an AR pistol from an 80% lower and parts purchased online a few months ago.   For personal use.  It's perfectly legal and always will be under the 2nd amendment.  But if I setup an assembly line and start pumping them out to sell to my friends, I'll be in jail pretty quickly.
 
2017-10-03 10:12:13 AM  

RabidRythmDivas:  ...


That would make you a gun manufacturer and you have to have special licenses to do that.  Unless you just wanted a huge-ass aresenal for your own personal use.

I made an AR pistol from an 80% lower and parts purchased online a few months ago.   For personal use.  It's perfectly legal and always will be under the 2nd amendment.  But if I setup an assembly line and start pumping them out to sell to my friends, I'll be in jail pretty quickly

.

I am aware that I have blown way past "personal use" with my arguement-ad-absurdism. Where I am going is the limiting factor to producing  rifles and pistols in volume (and quality is coming up quickly) is not being a skilled machinist with a reasonable machine shop.  The limit now is buying a general purpose manufacturering platform and several STL files. After that you just need a monkey to push the PRINT button every 6-12 hours and a vacuum cleaner to pick up the spare manufacturering powder. After that it's just assembly.

I can understand the FEDs wanting to keep the manufacturering files off the internet because the filesentipned in the arctic league have been tested for "print and use" without clean up or post processing (yes reduced lifetime still applies).
 
2017-10-03 10:22:51 AM  

Elfich: I can understand the FEDs wanting to keep the manufacturering files off the internet because the filesentipned in the arctic league have been tested for "print and use" without clean up or post processing (yes reduced lifetime still applies).


They're appealing the order to keep the files off the Internet and I believe they will win.  Feds are up against the 1st and 2nd at the same farking time!
 
2017-10-03 10:33:53 AM  
it would have been relatively simple to manufacture a full-auto submachine gun with the machines and metal stock in our shop.

Open bolt sub guns are far and away the easiest guns to build from scratch. You certainly don't need a mill or lathe. But unless they try and ban gun parts (which is impossible) AK parts kits will always be available and it's also easy to manufacture the receivers from flats.
 
2017-10-03 11:04:06 AM  

wildcardjack: 3D printed guns? There's a shiatload of slightly dated CNC mills and technical ovens you could produce some serious hardware in a light industrial park space.


You can get a lot of old used equipment dirt cheap. I hacked up some 3-phase power from a 2-phase converter for some old equipment I got, it was pretty fun.
 
2017-10-03 11:31:24 AM  

fickenchucker: I think it's funny when news articles act like old news is shockingly current.

My friends and I made "80% lower" AR-15s years ago.  All of our sons made their own, too.  It's not much more difficult than making a pinewood derby car.

And you know what we do with them?  Target shooting.  And simply spending time together as parents to children, and friends among friends.


Does it have to be an AR-15, or could it be a Ruger 10/22 with some accessories to make it look like an AR-15? Could it be a Marlin 60 without any accessories that you shoot targets with?

Sure, it's cool to shoot targets with "the same gun they use in the military" but if shooting targets is the point, why does it have to be something easily converted to full auto?
 
2017-10-03 11:38:50 AM  

ds615: themindiswatching: So? Apparently we're okay with little kids dying on occasion so we can have our pow pow boom booms.

So?
You're okay with kids dying so you can have your vroom vroom.
It's a shame hypocrisy isn't lethal.


Exactly.  Dickwad in Nice took out far more people in much less time with a silly truck.  Las Vegas guy was an amateur.

img.fark.net

 
2017-10-03 11:55:26 AM  

forgotmydamnusername: For $1,000 these days, you should be able to get a 1911 that runs out of the box. A Kimber Custom II or Springfield Milspec will work without being farked with, and they're available for a little under a K.


has kimber improved their QC? because that's what I was thinking of without naming names. I'm not a 1911 guy - i only have one ruger sr1911. Part of what kept me from getting into 1911s was that for years and years QC issues were a real thing unless you wanted to spend the kind of money on good proven one (ed brown, dan wesson) that could get you 4-5 striker fired guns that would work out of the box.
 
2017-10-03 12:08:21 PM  

Chevello: Does it have to be an AR-15, or could it be a Ruger 10/22 with some accessories to make it look like an AR-15? Could it be a Marlin 60 without any accessories that you shoot targets with?

Sure, it's cool to shoot targets with "the same gun they use in the military" but if shooting targets is the point, why does it have to be something easily converted to full auto?


not to say anything bad about the marlin model 60, or the 10/22 (honest, they keep having babies in my safe, I don't just buy more in different configs) but you're comparing razor scooters to nascar. or if you're into expensive ARs, razor scooters to F1. I'm pleased as punch to hear "PING" with a bolt action 22 firing subsonics through a silencer. but there's a different kind of good feels from hitting a clay pigeon on a stand from a distance with an AR (especially if it's one of my SBRs with one of my silencers).
just different kinds of plinking

69gnarkill69: Exactly.  Dickwad in Nice took out far more people in much less time with a silly truck.  Las Vegas guy was an amateur.


I have been on the strip in Vegas and I have been on the strip in Nice during bastille day (pre incident). it is wholly inconceivable to me that somebody could even consider killing innocent people who are just having fun and minding their own business.
 
2017-10-03 04:11:39 PM  
Genies have been out of many bottles, for a long time now.

/ nuke genie not the least of them
 
2017-10-03 04:15:53 PM  

wildcardjack: 3D printed guns? There's a shiatload of slightly dated CNC mills and technical ovens you could produce some serious hardware in a light industrial park space.


Uncounted thousands of pounds (tons?) of illegal drugs and 10's of thousands of people are smuggled into this country every year. There's no need to make an illegal firearm. Outlaw them all and they'll still flow into this country like water through a sieve.

/ not talking about gun control of any type, pro or con
// just saying you shouldn't get your hopes up that things are going to change for the better
 
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