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(Forbes)   The suspect science of Star Trek: Discovery makes for a better plot device than for believable science fiction   ( forbes.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Star Trek, Star Trek: Enterprise, Burnham, Stamets assigns Burnham, Discovery, Star Trek: The Next Generation, mutineer Michael Burnham  
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1950 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Oct 2017 at 11:20 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2017-10-02 01:05:53 PM  
8 votes:

Fano: If teleporters have infinite range why would you need starships?


The in-universe answer is, they don't.  The plot device "we're out of transporter range" was invoked many times over the course of each series.

The real reason Star Trek has transporters at all is that Gene Roddenberry didn't have the VFX budget to portray the starship Enterprise landing on a planet.  Transporters may be based on (speculative) science ... but it was still mostly a way to cut down the costs of the show.
2017-10-02 12:56:42 PM  
8 votes:
If teleporters have infinite range why would you need starships?
2017-10-02 04:30:53 PM  
4 votes:
Better than believable science fiction?  Like g-forces and light delay in radio communications and weapons that don't rely on technobabble?

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Someone hasn't seen The Expanse.
Okay, technically there is one bit of Alien Goo, and workable fusion reactors.  But beyond that it's pretty damn hard sci-fi.
2017-10-02 01:14:22 PM  
4 votes:

noazark: The real reason Star Trek has transporters at all is that Gene Roddenberry didn't have the VFX budget to portray the starship Enterprise landing on a planet.


Which is actually more realistic, in the same way that navy ships don't go on land. Ships built in, and for, space stay in space. You need special skiffs or landing crafts to land on a planet. Or teleporters will do.
2017-10-02 12:18:04 PM  
4 votes:
Uh, no shiat. This has been true of Star Trek since September, 1966.

Did you think a warp drive made for believable science fiction? Or the transporter?
2017-10-02 04:44:14 PM  
3 votes:

Karac: Someone hasn't seen The Expanse.


Too bad we have to wait so freaking long to see the next season.

Oh and no more Dark Matter.

Hey, I liked it.
2017-10-02 03:03:52 PM  
3 votes:
Forbes link.  Not even once.
2017-10-02 02:14:02 PM  
3 votes:

realmolo: Wouldn't EVERYONE IN THE GALAXY want to pursue the technology that allows unlimited (or at least, greatly expanded) transporter range? Yes, they would. But you never hear about it again


Happens a fair bit in sci-fi, and especially Star Trek shows.

Remember when the replacement doctor for Beverly Crusher suddenly got all super old and was close to dying, when someone (Data maybe) decided that if they could find some of her original DNA when she wasn't all super old, and put that, and her, into the transporter, she'd be all OK again.

Cue Riker and Data finding some hair on a hairbrush of hers, and presto: the transporter could mix that DNA with her super old 'n busted DNA, and she was all fine again.

Um ... MAJOR DISCOVERY OF THE CENTURY THERE GUYS  .... and so how were important yet super old people all over the galaxy not immediately transported back to their mid 30s again, to keep on being super important?!
2017-10-02 02:10:41 PM  
3 votes:

Fano: noazark: Fano: If teleporters have infinite range why would you need starships?

The in-universe answer is, they don't.  The plot device "we're out of transporter range" was invoked many times over the course of each series.

The real reason Star Trek has transporters at all is that Gene Roddenberry didn't have the VFX budget to portray the starship Enterprise landing on a planet.  Transporters may be based on (speculative) science ... but it was still mostly a way to cut down the costs of the show.

What about the newer movies? Wasn't that how they blew up Vulcan or something?


Yeah, transporters have limited range, until the plot needs them to have MUCH GREATER range. They usually do some explanation of this in the show, like "So and so figured out a way to make the transporters work over a range of light years!" or something.

Which is fine. But...it's immediately forgotten. Wouldn't EVERYONE IN THE GALAXY want to pursue the technology that allows unlimited (or at least, greatly expanded) transporter range? Yes, they would. But you never hear about it again.

That's why I like "The Culture" series by Iain M. Banks. It has all the crazy "Trek" technology, but it's actually used in realistic ways.

/if you haven't read any of "The Culture" books, do so now. It's easily the greatest science-fiction series of all-time
2017-10-02 01:25:54 PM  
3 votes:
So, I only watched the first episode...and was of the opinion that Burnham should spend the rest of her life in prison, never to be part of the show again.  Since I know that wasn't going to happen, I figured they were either going to go with the horribly clichéd "I know she's in prison, but she's the only person who..." storyline; or come up with something more clever (like she escapes, Hellbent on "fixing" what she screwed up, and the show becomes "convict helps win the war").

Looks like they went with the cliché...more convinced than ever that I'm not going to pay for this show.
2017-10-02 05:21:39 PM  
2 votes:

Telos: Star Wars is more akin to fantasy


Star Wars IS fantasy: Peasant, wizard, rogue and warrior rescue princess from the dark lord's castle. That's literally what it's about.
2017-10-02 04:44:42 PM  
2 votes:

imgod2u: Fano: I think the problem is they ended up having some sort of war after a transporter malfunction started spewing out clones, and people agreed that Clone Wars are awful.

What about freak accidental deaths then? Like why don't they have a rule where if someone in Starfleet encounters a tragic death, they can be brought back from moments before they died using the transporter data.

Now that I think about it, we've seen the same no-name ensign die over and over....


There's a very good and very long running webcomic that explores similar issues.  Backups of a person's mind can be stored on computers or even their skin.  So if someone does something like stops an enemy invasion by running into their beachhead and pulling the pin on a antimatter bomb ... then they can be brought back to life as soon as you can grow a new clone body and upload their memories.

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Schlock Mercenary.  Very highly recommended, although the early art (the creator hasn't missed even a single day in seventeen years) is self-admittedly bad.
2017-10-02 04:11:10 PM  
2 votes:

imgod2u: Instead Trek became primarily character and narrative driven. Exploring parables of modern-day ethics rather than a what-if scenario of what humans could potentially be. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not science fiction anymore in the purest sense.


Um, that IS what science fiction is in the purest sense. Not fascination with gadgets, but human nature with gadgets as the backdrop.

That's why the science is so easily criticized.
2017-10-02 02:37:30 PM  
2 votes:

festus: rummonkey: Not worth paying for yet another streaming service, but not bad

TORRENTS

Telos: (Don't know about discovery, I'm not paying to watch it...)

TORRENTS

Man I thought Americans were supposed to be switched on and knowledgeable about basic internet things ...


They also think that they live in the greatest democracy on Earth, so don't get your hopes up.
2017-10-02 02:29:10 PM  
2 votes:

whidbey: festus: you get a VPN (there are a LOT of them out there now, available)

free?


There are ways to get a free one. But for a really low price of $3 a month for some VPNs, that cost is rapidly covered by how many free shows you can get, and avoid the cost of paid networks and streaming services.

rummonkey: I'm old fashioned. Give the creative team their due. I don't torrent


The pay networks still run commercials during shows ... so they're making assloads of money hand over fist .... AND they have the nerve to charge you on top of that? I have no issues with picking a few nickels out of their pockets when they're getting truckloads of advertising dollars for shows.
2017-10-02 02:24:15 PM  
2 votes:

festus: rummonkey: Not worth paying for yet another streaming service, but not bad

TORRENTS

Telos: (Don't know about discovery, I'm not paying to watch it...)

TORRENTS

Man I thought Americans were supposed to be switched on and knowledgeable about basic internet things ...


I'm old fashioned. Give the creative team their due. I don't torrent.

If I use an online service I have paid for it.

I was only able to see the second episode because I was at a friend's house for that one.
2017-10-02 02:07:35 PM  
2 votes:

rummonkey: Not worth paying for yet another streaming service, but not bad


TORRENTS

Telos: (Don't know about discovery, I'm not paying to watch it...)


TORRENTS

Man I thought Americans were supposed to be switched on and knowledgeable about basic internet things ...
2017-10-02 01:50:58 PM  
2 votes:

Uncontrolled_Jibe: I for one am looking forward to a day when we don't work for money but rather a promotion in our military rank and a chance for a larger cabin assignment.


Don't forget name recognition. Oh, and it helps if your parents were close classmates/crewmembers with high-ranking admirals of the day.

Or if you happen to catch the attention of some high-ranking admiral during your time at the academy.
2017-10-02 01:16:46 PM  
2 votes:
I for one am looking forward to a day when we don't work for money but rather a promotion in our military rank and a chance for a larger cabin assignment.
2017-10-02 11:09:37 PM  
1 vote:

Karac: Better than believable science fiction?  Like g-forces and light delay in radio communications and weapons that don't rely on technobabble?

[img.fark.net image 850x478]

Someone hasn't seen The Expanse.
Okay, technically there is one bit of Alien Goo, and workable fusion reactors.  But beyond that it's pretty damn hard sci-fi.


We've been without a good space opera for too long. And Avasarala is 10 lbs of awesome sauce in a 5 lb bag, I'm glad they pushed her to main cast out of the gate.

/books don't suck either.
2017-10-02 05:28:13 PM  
1 vote:

Ishkur: Telos: Star Wars is more akin to fantasy

Star Wars IS fantasy: Peasant, wizard, rogue and warrior rescue princess from the dark lord's castle. That's literally what it's about.


Well, there's the Samurai redemption story in there too. Granted that was added on in Empire and RotJ.
2017-10-02 05:16:40 PM  
1 vote:

Telos: festus: Telos: Plus my experience with torrenting is that most of the time I get to 99% of the file and all the seeders with that last 1% disappear.

That has never happened to me. Ever. And I download a LOT of things.

I don't believe you. My college roommate actually contributed to writing the software for one of the torrent clients and it happened to him all the time too.

I have money now, I can buy things. I'd just rather buy another beer each month than pay to watch one TV show.

And again, I'll just get it on a thumb drive eventually.


If you're downloading any modern TV show or movie, something with a bunch of seeds, you won't get stuck at 99%.  If you're downloading something older with only a few seeds (like, just a couple), you might get stuck late in the download.  Solution:  keep it running anyway.  In a few days a seed will randomly pop up and the file will finish.

I've hit 99% lots of times.  I've failed to have it finish very rarely, only on very old torrents that aren't often seeded.  Even then, I get surprised sometimes.  I now just leave 99% files running for weeks, you'd be surprised how many of them finally finish just when you think it's not gonna happen.
2017-10-02 04:03:56 PM  
1 vote:
My pet analysis is that Trek -- from a Sci-Fi purist POV -- isn't science fiction. Or at least, hasn't been for a long long time.

It's space drama. Set in a futuristic world but not actually dealing with any consequences of theoretical science.

It occurs to me that "science fiction" introduces some concept -- some technology that is now achievable or some dramatic event that occurs to humanity -- and analyzes the ramifications it'd have on the human species. What would culture be like in a universe with no scarcity? What does finding other alien life do to human civilization? What are the impacts on social structures like religion, government, family, etc.?

The original Trek certainly explored these concepts and that would qualify it as Sci-Fi. But it stopped doing that long ago. And they just kept adding new magic tech without ever exploring the civilization-level ramifications.

Instead Trek became primarily character and narrative driven. Exploring parables of modern-day ethics rather than a what-if scenario of what humans could potentially be. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not science fiction anymore in the purest sense.
2017-10-02 03:34:51 PM  
1 vote:
Am I the only one who liked most of the other ST variants but hated the pilot episode of Discovery? I probably wouldn't keep watching even if it were on TV or cable, but paying extra for it? Hell no.

As off the rails as it is, I'm enjoying The Orville so much more.
2017-10-02 02:52:14 PM  
1 vote:

Telos: festus: realmolo: Wouldn't EVERYONE IN THE GALAXY want to pursue the technology that allows unlimited (or at least, greatly expanded) transporter range? Yes, they would. But you never hear about it again

Happens a fair bit in sci-fi, and especially Star Trek shows.

Remember when the replacement doctor for Beverly Crusher suddenly got all super old and was close to dying, when someone (Data maybe) decided that if they could find some of her original DNA when she wasn't all super old, and put that, and her, into the transporter, she'd be all OK again.

Cue Riker and Data finding some hair on a hairbrush of hers, and presto: the transporter could mix that DNA with her super old 'n busted DNA, and she was all fine again.

Um ... MAJOR DISCOVERY OF THE CENTURY THERE GUYS  .... and so how were important yet super old people all over the galaxy not immediately transported back to their mid 30s again, to keep on being super important?!

It wasn't even finding some DNA, their original age patterns were stored in the transporter records. Yes, though, they literally created the fountain of youth with that trick and completely ignored it after. Hell, not just aging... dying from a grievous wound? We'll just beam you using the stored pattern before we beamed you down!


Too true!

In fact the whole idea of the transporter, and the holodeck, and food replicators ... those three things were like HOLY shiat WOW things that should have kept people in that 'era' amazed and astounded.

Seriously ... beam down to planets, or over to other ships, or to different rooms on your OWN ship!? Or make holodeck programs where you're Hugh Hefner in orgies on every break from work? Or speak to a computer and get unbelievably great food in a nano-second?
2017-10-02 02:48:26 PM  
1 vote:

Telos: festus: Telos: Plus my experience with torrenting is that most of the time I get to 99% of the file and all the seeders with that last 1% disappear.

That has never happened to me. Ever. And I download a LOT of things.

I don't believe you. My college roommate actually contributed to writing the software for one of the torrent clients and it happened to him all the time too.

I have money now, I can buy things. I'd just rather buy another beer each month than pay to watch one TV show.

And again, I'll just get it on a thumb drive eventually.


Believe what you want, but I'm not lying. It sounds like what you're talking about is a scenario that happened when torrenting first started out ... many years ago. Napster and all that ... it hasn't happened in years, for me.

Not entirely sure what you mean with your beer analogy. You will watch lots of shows on a paid streaming or network service ....

If you start torrenting, you can stop paying for every paid network and streaming service - your only cost for entertainment is your net connection - and a very cheap VPN if you need it.
2017-10-02 02:45:42 PM  
1 vote:

festus: realmolo: Wouldn't EVERYONE IN THE GALAXY want to pursue the technology that allows unlimited (or at least, greatly expanded) transporter range? Yes, they would. But you never hear about it again

Happens a fair bit in sci-fi, and especially Star Trek shows.

Remember when the replacement doctor for Beverly Crusher suddenly got all super old and was close to dying, when someone (Data maybe) decided that if they could find some of her original DNA when she wasn't all super old, and put that, and her, into the transporter, she'd be all OK again.

Cue Riker and Data finding some hair on a hairbrush of hers, and presto: the transporter could mix that DNA with her super old 'n busted DNA, and she was all fine again.

Um ... MAJOR DISCOVERY OF THE CENTURY THERE GUYS  .... and so how were important yet super old people all over the galaxy not immediately transported back to their mid 30s again, to keep on being super important?!


It wasn't even finding some DNA, their original age patterns were stored in the transporter records. Yes, though, they literally created the fountain of youth with that trick and completely ignored it after. Hell, not just aging... dying from a grievous wound? We'll just beam you using the stored pattern before we beamed you down!
2017-10-02 02:41:03 PM  
1 vote:

Valiente: festus: rummonkey: Not worth paying for yet another streaming service, but not bad

TORRENTS

Telos: (Don't know about discovery, I'm not paying to watch it...)

TORRENTS

Man I thought Americans were supposed to be switched on and knowledgeable about basic internet things ...

They also think that they live in the greatest democracy on Earth, so don't get your hopes up.


I know you're being snarky, but you do realize that none of us would ever "vote" on gun control, that it has to ultimately be a Supreme Court Ruling?

You're welcome.
2017-10-02 02:22:23 PM  
1 vote:

whidbey: festus: I watch everything via Torrents.

Not Game of Thrones, you don't.

They farking hijacked my browser and everything before sending nasty e-mails the next day.

But--iIf you're some Super Internet VPN dude, I salute you.


Game of Thrones is the highest torrented show of all time. And, HBO got their sorry asses hacked for a few eps ahead of time, over two seasons.

I watched every ep of GoT without a hitch via Torrents.

"Super Internet VPN dude"? Um ... if you find you need to get around nasty letters from your ISP, putting a VPN program on your computer just like any other program ... you get a VPN (there are a LOT of them out there now, available), you flick a switch, presto you're 'virtually' in Norway, and things work without a hitch.

Then when you're not downloading torrents, you flick that switch again, and presto: you're back to your normal net connection.
2017-10-02 02:12:39 PM  
1 vote:

festus: rummonkey: Not worth paying for yet another streaming service, but not bad

TORRENTS

Telos: (Don't know about discovery, I'm not paying to watch it...)

TORRENTS

Man I thought Americans were supposed to be switched on and knowledgeable about basic internet things ...


Depends on whether CBS is as much of a hardass about torrenting as HBO is.
2017-10-02 01:52:34 PM  
1 vote:

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: So, I only watched the first episode...and was of the opinion that Burnham should spend the rest of her life in prison, never to be part of the show again.  Since I know that wasn't going to happen, I figured they were either going to go with the horribly clichéd "I know she's in prison, but she's the only person who..." storyline; or come up with something more clever (like she escapes, Hellbent on "fixing" what she screwed up, and the show becomes "convict helps win the war").

Looks like they went with the cliché...more convinced than ever that I'm not going to pay for this show.


So I....obtained a method to watch the rest. And you'll be surprised.

After eps 3, I actually like this show. More than I thought I would....
2017-10-02 01:48:42 PM  
1 vote:

whidbey: Hey, I finally saw the first two episodes of STD (unfortunate acronym, lol) and I really enjoy the show.

Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised.


Minor annoyances aside (failing upwards, etc) its not bad.

Not worth paying for yet another streaming service, but not bad.
2017-10-02 01:39:42 PM  
1 vote:

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: So, I only watched the first episode...and was of the opinion that Burnham should spend the rest of her life in prison, never to be part of the show again.  Since I know that wasn't going to happen, I figured they were either going to go with the horribly clichéd "I know she's in prison, but she's the only person who..." storyline; or come up with something more clever (like she escapes, Hellbent on "fixing" what she screwed up, and the show becomes "convict helps win the war").

Looks like they went with the cliché...more convinced than ever that I'm not going to pay for this show.


Falling upwards seems to be the recurring theme in this series and the Nu-Trek movies...
2017-10-02 12:43:45 PM  
1 vote:
The third episode actually surprised me, which is rare.
 
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