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(The Raw Story)   According to the head of FEMA, the most logistically challenging event in US history was: A) Putting a man on the moon; B) World War II; C) response to Hurricane Maria   ( rawstory.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Puerto Rico, WWE Raw, President Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Puerto Rican officials, logistically challenging event, federal response haphazard, highest appointed official  
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1015 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Oct 2017 at 12:50 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-10-02 10:16:51 AM  
Jets and Sharks are causing a lot of difficulty.
 
2017-10-02 10:16:52 AM  
Well, the Maria thing is like 11 days old.  The moon took 24 years plus stolen science and scientists from Germany.  WWII was 4 year long and ended with a nuke.

So, unless you want to nuke PR, or put it on the moon, maybe less than two weeks isn't the best time to compare it to those achievements.
 
2017-10-02 11:00:31 AM  
probably the most logistically challenging event in FEMA history so...partially true?
 
2017-10-02 11:18:38 AM  
"Coordinating the response to Hurricane Maria was the biggest logistical challenge in American history."
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"No, buying a ticket on Orbitz is a much bigger logistical challenge!"
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"Navigating all the passwords to use @whitehouse.gov email is very hard, logistically."
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"Coming up with a plan to stop online bullies is a logistical nightmare!"
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"Scheduling meetings with the Russian government takes significant logistical planning!"
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"You guys don't know anything.  Alternative Logistics are always the hardest!"
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2017-10-02 11:35:16 AM  
What exactly about PR made it a logistical nightmare?

/Serious Question
 
2017-10-02 11:53:23 AM  

Chris Ween: Well, the Maria thing is like 11 days old.  The moon took 24 years plus stolen science and scientists from Germany.  WWII was 4 year long and ended with a nuke.

So, unless you want to nuke PR, or put it on the moon, maybe less than two weeks isn't the best time to compare it to those achievements.


Okay, the Berlin airlift then.
 
2017-10-02 12:15:48 PM  
I've studied this very subject for years, and I actually think the administration hasn't gone far enough in their naming the challenges of getting aid to Puerto Rico. We all understand that--as Trump was wise to mention--PR is surrounded by water, big water, ocean water, but little is mentioned or understood about how deep that big water is. In my studies, all the evidence available points to one conclusion: the only thing that makes the dangerous big water more dangerous is when it is also dangerously deep.

I just pray, before it's too late, that Trump can figure out a way to cross the bigness and stay atop the deepness. Because if he can't, I know no one can.
 
2017-10-02 12:22:41 PM  

RaceDTruck: Chris Ween: Well, the Maria thing is like 11 days old.  The moon took 24 years plus stolen science and scientists from Germany.  WWII was 4 year long and ended with a nuke.

So, unless you want to nuke PR, or put it on the moon, maybe less than two weeks isn't the best time to compare it to those achievements.

Okay, the Berlin airlift then.


Much closer, but Berlin had working airfields, and Berlin had the military presence on the ground already as part of the Marshall Plan.  So, it was already in place with a disruption (many small intermittent disruption) of train supply, so they just flew them instead.  It wasn't a major logistical challenge to use planes...the real risk was starting war, not being able to do what they were already prepared to do.

That said, PR has a lot of damage, and it should be getting better each day with resources allowing access to ports, airfields, etc.... and it should be a priority.  I think that it would not be as big of a deal to get this done, if PR wasn't the third disaster in a month.  If the hurricanes happened in revers order, we'd be pissed at the slow response to Houston with FEMA strung out and over extended from a PR and Florida hurricane.
 
2017-10-02 12:38:31 PM  

shortymac: What exactly about PR made it a logistical nightmare?

/Serious Question


According to Trump, it's an island.  Surrounded by water.  Big, ocean water.
 
2017-10-02 12:45:32 PM  

Ambivalence: probably the most logistically challenging event in FEMA history so...partially true?


I'd say so.  There is the challenge of getting relief supplies, people, and equipment to the island which is a no-sh*tter in itself but seems to have been met.  Then they have to get over the hump of the shattered infrastructure, which is preventing them from (1) getting the supplies off the ships and docks mostly in San Juan and (2) moving anything or anybody in significant numbers to all the assorted towns and villages cut off by landslides, road and bridge collapses everywhere.

It is okay to admit that PR relief is actually a f*cking pickle even while criticizing Trump for making it worse.  He's doing a sh*t job of focusing and messaging, and the response has been quite a bit slower and of lower scale than, say, the Hatian earthquake despite the much greater number of people affected.
 
2017-10-02 12:51:51 PM  
How do solve a problem like Maria?
 
2017-10-02 12:52:39 PM  

shortymac: What exactly about PR made it a logistical nightmare?

/Serious Question


Water. Big water. Ocean water.
 
2017-10-02 12:53:26 PM  
D-Day last seen sneering from the corner.
 
2017-10-02 12:54:42 PM  
Incompetent people do and say incompetent things.

Film at 11.

/this could be repeated nearly every day regarding the trump administration
 
2017-10-02 12:55:03 PM  

Archidude: shortymac: What exactly about PR made it a logistical nightmare?

/Serious Question

Water. Big water. Ocean water.


On both sides.....both sides.
 
2017-10-02 12:55:25 PM  
So basically like the response to any other disaster, but with boats instead of trucks. This complicated. Bigly. Believe me.
 
2017-10-02 12:55:44 PM  
Who knew helping Puerto Rico recover from a hurricane could be so hard ??
 
2017-10-02 12:55:49 PM  

Archidude: shortymac: What exactly about PR made it a logistical nightmare?

/Serious Question

Water. Big water. Ocean water.


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/helpful photo of what a big ocean water might look like
 
2017-10-02 12:55:58 PM  
I think the greatest challenge in dealing with hurricane Maria is the racism of the Trump administration.
 
2017-10-02 12:56:18 PM  

Poopspasm: So basically like the response to any other disaster, but with boats instead of trucks. This complicated. Bigly. Believe me.


There are airports too.
 
2017-10-02 12:56:39 PM  

Archidude: shortymac: What exactly about PR made it a logistical nightmare?

/Serious Question

Water. Big water. Ocean water.


i.yomyomf.comView Full Size


Lake. Big lake.
 
2017-10-02 12:58:11 PM  
sliderulemuseum.comView Full Size

The above was the hand-held calculator engineers and scientists used when the first lunar mission was being worked out...
 
2017-10-02 12:58:27 PM  

Ambivalence: probably the most logistically challenging event in FEMA history so...partially true?


I would go WWII and then PR / Maria.

First off, we learned a lot moving large volumes of material, rebuilding bombed out stuff, and so on during WWII. That's not to say Maria's devastation to PR made it easy, but we have some experience in similar situations.

Second, putting people on the moon doesnt compare well. Developing whole technologies/systems from scratch for a specific endeavor is entirely different.
 
2017-10-02 01:00:25 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-02 01:00:28 PM  

shortymac: What exactly about PR made it a logistical nightmare?

/Serious Question


Three storms in a row. Island. Most infrastructure destroyed. Local skilled labor (heavy equipment, CDL, linemen, etc) shortage so they can care for their families.

There's plenty of reasons I could come up with - but you don't. You just say "this is a massive disaster, we're working feverishly, we're sorry we haven't done better." Behind the scenes you tell your people to put down the bong and get serious.

It's not that this guy is just a shiatty president, or politician - he's a shiatty person. That should be clear to everyone by now.
 
2017-10-02 01:02:04 PM  
So is this that American Exceptionalism we keep hearing about?
 
2017-10-02 01:02:34 PM  
RELEASE THE FARK LOGISTICAL WONK BRIGADE!

-They have all the answers to the PR problem
-They know a guy who knows a guy who is and expert.  This makes them experts by osmosis, apparently
-If they don't have the answer DEFLECT it works, ask the GOP
 
2017-10-02 01:03:06 PM  
To be fair, he's probably right, just not for the reason he thinks. When you consider how poorly staffed the government is right now, the nearly universal lack of competent leadership across all departments and the fact that the guy overseeing the whole thing is more interested in insulting the victims on Twitter than even trying to help them, it's sort of hard to see how it WOULDN'T be a logistical nightmare.

For a competent administration, this would be difficult. Not just because it's Puerto Rico, but it's the third hit in a month.

For the utter and complete clown show that Trump is running, there was never any chance of a competent response.
 
2017-10-02 01:03:23 PM  
If only we had a military that could deal with both big water and big land. And maybe some amphibious problems, too.

We're screwed if someone out there doesn't like us. Hopes and prayers a Cat 5 hurricane doesn't hit DC in the next years.

What the hell is an MPA degree this boy is sporting? Aren't there seasoned people out there who have been through this hundreds of times before, and can contribute to a solution.  Couldn't Sheriff Joe let his inmates out to drive trucks in Puerto Rico and save the world?
 
2017-10-02 01:03:39 PM  

Chris Ween: RaceDTruck: Chris Ween: Well, the Maria thing is like 11 days old.  The moon took 24 years plus stolen science and scientists from Germany.  WWII was 4 year long and ended with a nuke.

So, unless you want to nuke PR, or put it on the moon, maybe less than two weeks isn't the best time to compare it to those achievements.

Okay, the Berlin airlift then.

Much closer, but Berlin had working airfields, and Berlin had the military presence on the ground already as part of the Marshall Plan.  So, it was already in place with a disruption (many small intermittent disruption) of train supply, so they just flew them instead.  It wasn't a major logistical challenge to use planes...the real risk was starting war, not being able to do what they were already prepared to do.

That said, PR has a lot of damage, and it should be getting better each day with resources allowing access to ports, airfields, etc.... and it should be a priority.  I think that it would not be as big of a deal to get this done, if PR wasn't the third disaster in a month.  If the hurricanes happened in revers order, we'd be pissed at the slow response to Houston with FEMA strung out and over extended from a PR and Florida hurricane.


So, is there anything that can be said that you won't explain away?
 
2017-10-02 01:04:23 PM  
Has the point been made yet that all D2S would have to do is order the Navy and Marines to get the job done ASAP and we would have a vastly better outcome? Give the farking order and the best teams in the world will gladly save their countrymen.
 
2017-10-02 01:04:41 PM  
Trump drives a hard bargain. He will act when he gets more of what he wants.
 
2017-10-02 01:05:28 PM  

Soon Right Away: I've studied this very subject for years, and I actually think the administration hasn't gone far enough in their naming the challenges of getting aid to Puerto Rico. We all understand that--as Trump was wise to mention--PR is surrounded by water, big water, ocean water, but little is mentioned or understood about how deep that big water is. In my studies, all the evidence available points to one conclusion: the only thing that makes the dangerous big water more dangerous is when it is also dangerously deep.

I just pray, before it's too late, that Trump can figure out a way to cross the bigness and stay atop the deepness. Because if he can't, I know no one can.


oooohhhhhhhh.
 
2017-10-02 01:06:21 PM  
If only there were some sort of large force of Engineers..A Corp perhaps..Or even people who
specialize in landing persons, heavy equipment and supplies on beaches...
 
2017-10-02 01:06:27 PM  

TheDarkSaintOfGin: Chris Ween: RaceDTruck: Chris Ween: Well, the Maria thing is like 11 days old.  The moon took 24 years plus stolen science and scientists from Germany.  WWII was 4 year long and ended with a nuke.

So, unless you want to nuke PR, or put it on the moon, maybe less than two weeks isn't the best time to compare it to those achievements.

Okay, the Berlin airlift then.

Much closer, but Berlin had working airfields, and Berlin had the military presence on the ground already as part of the Marshall Plan.  So, it was already in place with a disruption (many small intermittent disruption) of train supply, so they just flew them instead.  It wasn't a major logistical challenge to use planes...the real risk was starting war, not being able to do what they were already prepared to do.

That said, PR has a lot of damage, and it should be getting better each day with resources allowing access to ports, airfields, etc.... and it should be a priority.  I think that it would not be as big of a deal to get this done, if PR wasn't the third disaster in a month.  If the hurricanes happened in revers order, we'd be pissed at the slow response to Houston with FEMA strung out and over extended from a PR and Florida hurricane.

So, is there anything that can be said that you won't explain away?


I think the statement made is stupid.  But lack of historical knowledge is no reason to stay ignorant.
 
2017-10-02 01:08:55 PM  
Maybe they should have told them they where going there to kill brown people instead of help them.  The response would have been way faster.  Just make sure to tell them "Oh, my bad, we're supposed to help them" when they get there.
 
2017-10-02 01:09:06 PM  
Don't forhet the logistical burden of making sure the Commander in Chief had enough golf balls, a decent caddy, and  that the cart was charged up.
 
2017-10-02 01:09:41 PM  
Heckuva Job Brownie II: Electric Boogaloo.
 
2017-10-02 01:17:11 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-02 01:18:49 PM  

mcreadyblue: Who knew helping Puerto Rico recover from a hurricane could be so hard ??


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-02 01:20:21 PM  

Mr. Shabooboo: If only there were some sort of large force of Engineers..A Corp perhaps..Or even people who
specialize in landing persons, heavy equipment and supplies on beaches...


And ships large enough to carry said equipment, and maybe one day one bigly enough to operate a large number of aircraft from it's deck.  Or perhaps a large fleet of transport aircraft under the government's control that could drop supplies with this new "parachute" technology.
 
2017-10-02 01:20:57 PM  

Gingerwench: [img.fark.net image 648x326]


Dammit!
 
2017-10-02 01:23:13 PM  

Sandelaphon: Mr. Shabooboo: If only there were some sort of large force of Engineers..A Corp perhaps..Or even people who
specialize in landing persons, heavy equipment and supplies on beaches...

And ships large enough to carry said equipment, and maybe one day one bigly enough to operate a large number of aircraft from it's deck.  Or perhaps a large fleet of transport aircraft under the government's control that could drop supplies with this new "parachute" technology.


Or in a non-sarcastic response, we now have more motivation to work on things like this, which alleviates many of the concerns with airdropping heavy loads.
 
2017-10-02 01:26:18 PM  

Chris Ween: Well, the Maria thing is like 11 days old.  The moon took 24 years plus stolen science and scientists from Germany.  WWII was 4 year long and ended with a nuke.

So, unless you want to nuke PR, or put it on the moon, maybe less than two weeks isn't the best time to compare it to those achievements.


Of course there should have been a planned response for a major hurricane hitting Puerto Rico years ago. I don't think anyone is surprised that this happened. There should be planned responses for the entire Caribbean being hit by major hurricanes.

That said, this is a nightmare scenario, with assets tied up from two other major hurricanes causing significant damage in the US and other Caribbean nations. But the response has also been a joke. And whatever good they are doing us being covered up by looking like fools. The delay in suspending the Jones Act and deploying the Comfort make it look like the response is incompetent where it is or not. If those were not needed, there should have been clear statements about the assets in place and ongoing actions that show they aren't needed and the administration should not have then provided them. If they were needed they should have been provided immediately.

And those (along with the administration's history) mean they aren't getting any benefit of the doubt. And their desperate attempts to change the messaging now just look like attempts at cover ups.
 
2017-10-02 01:27:20 PM  
Well yeah, if your given budget is like 6 dollars a hurricane response is really tough to coordinate.
 
2017-10-02 01:28:05 PM  

mcreadyblue: Poopspasm: So basically like the response to any other disaster, but with boats instead of trucks. This complicated. Bigly. Believe me.

There are airports too.


Yup, a dozen or so, including general aviation. Three of them could be considered "big" (i.e. at least one runway more than 10,000 ft): San Juan's Muñoz Marin, Ceiba (the airfield at what used to be Roosevelt Roads) and Aguadilla (formerly Ramey AFB) These serve an area about 2/3 the size of Connecticut, with a farking mountain range running through the middle of it. Two of these are in the northeast quadrant and one on the northwest; there is nothing of this size along the entire southern shore of the island.

So, how do you suggest they get supplies off the ramp to where they're needed, given landslides, collapsed bridges and washed-out roads?

Oh, and is ATC back in full working condition? Because the last I heard, Muñoz Marin was running during daylight hours only.
 
2017-10-02 01:28:22 PM  
They do realize this is not the first time America has had to respond to a hurricane in Puerto Rico.  It is just the first time Trump has had to do so.
 
2017-10-02 01:28:30 PM  

dywed88: Chris Ween: Well, the Maria thing is like 11 days old.  The moon took 24 years plus stolen science and scientists from Germany.  WWII was 4 year long and ended with a nuke.

So, unless you want to nuke PR, or put it on the moon, maybe less than two weeks isn't the best time to compare it to those achievements.

Of course there should have been a planned response for a major hurricane hitting Puerto Rico years ago. I don't think anyone is surprised that this happened. There should be planned responses for the entire Caribbean being hit by major hurricanes.

That said, this is a nightmare scenario, with assets tied up from two other major hurricanes causing significant damage in the US and other Caribbean nations. But the response has also been a joke. And whatever good they are doing us being covered up by looking like fools. The delay in suspending the Jones Act and deploying the Comfort make it look like the response is incompetent where it is or not. If those were not needed, there should have been clear statements about the assets in place and ongoing actions that show they aren't needed and the administration should not have then provided them. If they were needed they should have been provided immediately.

And those (along with the administration's history) mean they aren't getting any benefit of the doubt. And their desperate attempts to change the messaging now just look like attempts at cover ups.


I would think there is one.  But again, 3 major hurricane disasters in a month would stretch even the most prepared organization.  And we know Trump's FEMA has some leadership disadvantages.
 
2017-10-02 01:42:31 PM  

Mr. Shabooboo: If only there were some sort of large force of Engineers..A Corp perhaps..Or even people who
specialize in landing persons, heavy equipment and supplies on beaches...


The SeaBees were stationed on Puerto Rico until 2003.  By that time, global warming was no longer a threat.  We were starting to deal with climate change.
 
2017-10-02 01:52:16 PM  

shortymac: What exactly about PR made it a logistical nightmare?

/Serious Question


It's an island. Surrounded by water. Lots of water. Big water. How are you expected to drive across that?!
 
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