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(Harpers Bazaar)   We are not nagging. We are just fed up   ( harpersbazaar.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, emotional labor, Gender, Emotion, Gender role, husband, Homemaker, emotional labor duties, emotional labor skills  
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4383 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Sep 2017 at 5:00 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Funniest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2017-09-30 05:43:09 AM  
33 votes:
OMG, STFU.

I know that sounds horrible, but I lived with a woman that would seethe for days over some chore she mentioned but didn't exactly ask me to do. Days of angry glances until she'd stomp around and do it herself.

It was always my fault. When she moved in with her daughter she hated the drapes I had in my livingroom. She didn't say she hated them, she just harped on them until I took them to the cleaners. They were silk and the cleaning process totally ruined them. I waited for three months for her to get new drapes or even suggest we go look at some. Never happened . . . so I bought drapes and hung them myself. She was angry.

I cleaned out the fireplace and scrubbed the hearthstones until their former beauty was restored. And then I took a few hours hunting for (and buying) the perfect fireplace screen. That occasioned more anger.

OMG, that was an angry, angry woman. Funny thing is, we'd dated for several years (6?) and got along fine. She rented her place and I owned mine. Then she moved into my place and moved out six months later in a screaming rage fit.

That was 20 years ago. I still have the drapes and the fireplace screen. And I'm happy! Yay!

Wow, that was cathartic. Thanks internet . . . you're the best.
2017-09-30 12:56:33 PM  
11 votes:

TheMarchHare: get a sheep. Dogs got a new friend


img.fark.net
2017-09-30 06:15:48 AM  
9 votes:
img.fark.net

  " Captain, I know it was an attempt at humor but please refrain from sending links like this to my mate. Your not helping."
2017-09-30 10:26:22 AM  
8 votes:
Cooking isn't hard. I've been on fire dozens of times.
2017-09-30 09:04:57 AM  
8 votes:
"Emotional Labor" = "The things I do that I hate that I don't tell you about but you should see and praise me for and which I wish I didn't have to do but if I didn't no one would and it would drive me crazy so quit making me do this stuff I choose to do."
2017-09-30 07:14:05 AM  
8 votes:

Weaver95: draypresct: Weaver95: draypresct: That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.

no, that's me being tired.  I spend a LOT of time writing code.

So do I. And if I saw outputs that far out of any reasonable range as "a dozen loaves of bread", then I'd try to fix my code, not blame the way the specifications were phrased (which were perfectly fine in your example).

abend U4096, STEP01


(Eyeroll)
Your specs are always written in English. If you need someone to write the program for you, you're not a programmer, you're a surly user interface.
2017-09-30 02:23:50 PM  
7 votes:

trialpha: Bonzo_1116: and it's not *help*. You live there too. Think about a roommate situation. You shouldn't have to badger your roommate to hang up a new roll of paper if he uses one up.

The roll of paper thing is a poor example, and not obvious. A person who lives alone has no need to replace the roll when done - they can simply do it the next time they need to use it. Replacing the roll at the end of use is solely for the benefit of other residents.


img.fark.net
2017-09-30 08:25:03 AM  
6 votes:

forgotmydamnusername: ginandbacon: Yup.

If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite. And yeah, it's annoying.

What if there's no agreement that it needs to be done in the first place?


Just go clean your farking room, Kevin.
2017-09-30 04:51:11 AM  
6 votes:

ginandbacon: Annnnnd here we go.


img.fark.net

But seriously, you being one of the rare female Farkers (I think), what's your take on TFA?
2017-09-30 03:39:55 PM  
5 votes:

Chthonic Echoes: "I was gifted a necklace for Mother's Day while my husband stole away to deep clean the bathrooms, leaving me to care for our children as the rest of the house fell into total disarray."

Wait. He disappears for a bit while she watches the children, and the entire house promptly falls apart?


She was probably watching Nickelodeon with the kids, a Kool-Aid commercial came on, and one of the kids make the rookie mistake of saying "Hey Kool-Aid!" and a giant anthropomorphic pitcher of sugary drink crashed through a load-bearing wall and the house had a partial collapse. I've seen it many times. Around the office we call it the "Fruit Punch" or the "Berry Blast."
2017-09-30 05:44:22 PM  
4 votes:
Mansplaining: A man explaining something in simplistic terms to a woman who has more extensive knowledge about that something than he does.

Womansplaining: You know exactly what it's about and if you don't then I'm not telling you.
2017-09-30 08:10:17 AM  
4 votes:

draypresct: Weaver95: draypresct: Weaver95: draypresct: That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.

no, that's me being tired.  I spend a LOT of time writing code.

So do I. And if I saw outputs that far out of any reasonable range as "a dozen loaves of bread", then I'd try to fix my code, not blame the way the specifications were phrased (which were perfectly fine in your example).

abend U4096, STEP01

(Eyeroll)
Your specs are always written in English. If you need someone to write the program for you, you're not a programmer, you're a surly user interface.


I'm a maintenance tech. We have PLCs at work. People write code for them, of course. To my specifications. This has occasioned a long conversation with a programmer who thought I wasn't smart enough to block out functions, but that's a different discussion :P

I'd take both of you dumbasses out back of the distillation units and make you listen to the vacuum pumps without hearing protection until you quit trying to "1-up" each other.

Weaver, that joke is so old my now-deceased father told it. Fark off with it.

Draypresct, you're white-knighting for a cnut. Stop it.

And if either of you arseholes is going to come back at me, I'm not going to be here. I'm going to bed, and fark both of you.
2017-09-30 12:57:32 AM  
4 votes:
how dare men NOT foresee the future and read women's minds!

c'mon.
2017-09-30 06:59:12 PM  
3 votes:
Also, an example of how we fight:

Her: "I will literally kill you if you don't mow the lawn right now."
Me, getting up from my desk: "You're a soulless harpy."
*kiss* *butt pat*
*mows lawn*

It's that easy, folks.
2017-09-30 03:57:37 PM  
3 votes:
How men and women communicate.

It's Not About The Nail
Youtube -4EDhdAHrOg
2017-09-30 03:10:48 PM  
3 votes:

Chthonic Echoes: "I was gifted a necklace for Mother's Day while my husband stole away to deep clean the bathrooms, leaving me to care for our children as the rest of the house fell into total disarray."

Wait. He disappears for a bit while she watches the children, and the entire house promptly falls apart?


img.fark.net
It was a Jenga house.
2017-09-30 12:23:04 PM  
3 votes:

casual disregard: seriously.though: AngryDragon: seriously.though: My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.

Not the same thing.  You're husband is just lazy.

Lazy, procrastinator, butthead... He's not all bad, but this bugs the hell out of me. Dog needs a clean yard, he loves dog, but doesn't see that he shouldn't be wandering around in his own filth.

Divorce him. I'm unmarried, but if something is that bad that you complain about it to strangers on a webzone, the only possible advice I can muster is divorce him. "He's not all bad" sounds like excuse-making to me.


Well, then he definitely won't mow her lawn.
2017-09-30 12:22:21 PM  
3 votes:

WhackingDay: I follow a number of women in the IT/Programming field ON TWITTERoff and on.


/FTFM... I don't follow them around, that would be weird
2017-09-30 12:21:29 PM  
3 votes:
HammerHeadSnark:
OMG, that was an angry, angry woman. Funny thing is, we'd dated for several years (6?) and got along fine. She rented her place and I owned mine. Then she moved into my place and moved out six months later in a screaming rage fit.

That was 20 years ago. I still have the drapes and the fireplace screen. And I'm happy! Yay!

Wow, that was cathartic. Thanks internet . . . you're the best.


I had this exact experience.  Are there are lot of shiatty people who don't help out?  Sure.  I'd bet it's a lot of them.  Are there people, though, who are incapable of seeing anything but what they want to see?  Yes.  What some people fail to understand, or like to elide in their articles, is sometimes that "we're just fed up" is actually code for, "we're just incapable of communicating" or "we're just abusive."   When you're upset because I do almost 80% of everything that needs to be done, including some back-breaking repairs, etc., and your method of dealing with something not to your liking is to go from 0 to rage, to the point that people (bonus points when you meet the exes and they all had the same experience!) are almost afraid to come home, well....

My favorite one was after painting the garage, repairing a door-frame, fixing her car, mopping the floors, etc., the moment she got home I dealt with a volcanic explosion over the fact a towel was not hung up properly.  She told me I was a worthless piece of shiat who would never go anywhere in life (I was supporting her at the time) and a failure as a human and I should kill myself.   

She also later wrote a blog post about me, about how I "made her feel like a nag" and she "was just fed up", leaving out any other side of the story.  I figured this was going to be it again after seeing the headline (it wasn't, fortunately).  Only reason I'm bothering to comment here. 

/person was previously great to date before moving in together
2017-09-30 10:47:23 AM  
3 votes:

Snarfangel: ginandbacon: BTW, women initiate 69% of divorces...just sayin'.

Probably for the 69% of marriages men initiate.


So the real key to a successful marriage is lots of 69s?
2017-09-30 10:25:25 AM  
3 votes:
Mrs Aneki made several life decisions post marriage.

The first was that she had no interest in working a job.  So I am wholly responsible for all finances.  The second is that she is shy and hates talking to people besides her limited circle.  This means I am wholly responsible for anything involving communication outside that circle (appointments, service calls, etc.)

This means she does the bulk of managing the kids, getting them to sports practice and back, and cleaning and yard work.  She runs the home.  I help out if asked, but I assume I am not needed unless told otherwise.

She shags like a champ though, so I'll step into her duties and help out more if she "motivates me".

And frankly ladies, that's my advice, positive reinforcement.  Most men I know, including myself, want to be appreciated and shagged.  Like a pet reward me quickly when I do good and you'll get more of that behavior.
2017-09-30 09:04:55 AM  
3 votes:

ol' gormsby: Fano: ol' gormsby: Weaver95: ginandbacon: If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite.

nothing in the world works like this.  if you cannot communicate your needs and wants effectively, then it is not your partner's fault.  that's on YOU, not them.

Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Seriously, take a look around the house/apartment and make up your mind. Does {this thing} need doing? Well, you have a choice. You can do it, or you can ignore it and hope your partner decides to do it. If you decide to ignore it, then *you* are the problem, not your partner. Grow up. If you need to repeatedly explain your wants and needs about such basic things as dishes/vacuuming/shopping/washing clothes, then your relationship is headed for its ending - like mine did. I never knew people could just ignore household chores then act surprised at the consequences. My mistake, and I've learned a lesson.

No, if you can not communicate then you are the problem. All they know is you are being lazy about the work you usually do, for some reason.

Oh, I communicated. I communicated calmly, clearly and with love - at least, to begin with. The message, whether it got through or not, just didn't resonate.

And - "the work you usually do" -  misses the point.


Then what's wrong? Dobby is free!
2017-09-30 07:00:39 AM  
3 votes:
Are there really men calling women nags? I hesitate to be surprised because this is kind of like when I accidentally visited a MRA site back when I thought the whole thing was a joke and found out nope, the MRAs are dead serious (as serious as they are pathetic). Maybe I'm just uncreative but I can't fathom insulting an entire half of the human population on the account of one or two bad experiences. There are good men and bad men, likewise good women and bad women. I suspect there are at least as many in any quantity belonging to any gender. There's nothing specifically about women that I would ever think to complain about.

There is another The Atlantic article by one of their better writers, Olga Khazan, about how relationships may be more precarious now because we have attached too much baggage to them. Fair warning, it's an interview with the author of a book (that I won't buy). In that light it's not so much a men vs. women divide as it is a me vs. you divide - we're just asking too much of another person. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but it's a different angle on an old idea.

/should I call it The Atlantic or just Atlantic in this context...? this seems awkward somehow
2017-09-30 06:22:08 AM  
3 votes:
Not shocked by the gender differences in the responders here...I've long seen this dynamic in my family. Now, my dad is very helpful and will take a lot of initiative in doing some chores. If he thinks bathroom needs cleaning, or floor needs vacuuming, he's on it. Of course he does the outside stuff without request.

But for example, god forbid he do grocery shopping without being asked. He doesn't think about, "hey, I see we're low on X, I better note that for myself, or tell M." He needs to be sent with a list, he won't just go up and gown aisles like my mom who might see something on sale or remember they need more (possibly related to the fact that my dad does none of the cooking). Even if he goes to the store, he'll inevitably be home later looking for a snack and declare, "we're out of chips!" Mom: You eat them, and you went to the store, why didn't you pick some up? Pop: They weren't on my list.

About 10 years ago, my mom badly broke her leg, right before Christmas. She was in the hospital for 2 weeks, and then confined to a wheelchair for more than a month. I still lived at home, and my oldest brother took me aside and said that I couldn't allow my dad and other brother to treat me as mom 2.0. He made it clear to them that they had to pull some weight while my mom was out of commission. They learned, a little.

I don't live with my bf, but I can see the same dynamic happening. I think we'll figure out how to balance it though.
2017-09-30 05:52:46 AM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: he just wasn't doing it to HER standards


That's what you picked up out of it?!  JFC.

This here is part of the problem with some men:

Which is why he was frustrated when I ungratefully passed by, not looking at his handiwork as I put away his shoes, shirt and socks that had been left on the floor.

The fact that he's cleaning the bathroom needs to be a big deal and be given praise for doing it.  Never mind that she's also cleaning and taking care of the kids.  Because she didn't stop and acknowledge what he was doing, it made him unhappy.

This is another example:

"All you have to do is ask me to put it back," he said, watching me struggle.

He took something out, didn't put it back, and was upset because he wasn't asked for help to clean up a mess that he created.

The only "standard" that I can see there is that old adage of "pick up after yourself".  It's not something that should need praise or be asked for.  If you help dirty something, help clean up.
2017-09-30 08:36:10 PM  
2 votes:
'' tidying everyone's strewn about belongings''

This particular item has an easy solution - if they leave their stuff laying about, throw it out.
css: Judy, who used to live around the corner from us, did this and by age 7 her two kids never left anything out.
But then again Judy was *ruthless* - she even threw out good clothes, new toys, expensive video games, etc.
Didn't donate them to a thrift shop, didn't sell them on ebay - the stuff just went in the trash. Scary efficient.
2017-09-30 12:53:51 PM  
2 votes:

seriously.though: casual disregard: seriously.though: casual disregard: See, now we find out why the lawn is really not mowed. This is why I'll never marry.

So because I asked him 2 weeks ago to do it, and because this has been the one source of contention for years, because I do everything else on top of school full-time, I'm a biatch and all women are the same. I just want to know why exactly he gets a free pass and I should be grateful to do the lawn for him. I pick up a lot of slack because I support him and what he does, but I physically have problems with the lawn, and it's literally the one thing that I need him to do. It's ok though, I'm the asshole for being displeased with it.

I don't think you're an asshole at all. I was partly making a bad joke which I'll freely admit was in poor taste. I do think you are experiencing cognitive dissonance, however. My original advice of "divorce him" stands as genuine. If you're in a bad situation and it's causing you stress, you have no reason to stay there.

I think the biggest problem isn't men, women, couples, dating, or all that stuff. I think people are too willing to leap blindly into marriage without accepting the consequences of having made a binding contract. Thankfully divorce has never been easier.

As far as individual need goes, my personal belief is that I fulfill my needs. I don't fulfill anyone else's, and nobody else can possibly fulfill mine. Is that so weird?

Getting divorced cause he won't mow the lawn seems incredibly disproportionate. I put up with it because everything else is alright. We aren't perfect, but if the lawn is my biggest issue, then I'm doing better than most.


Sounds like you should sell the lawn mower and get a sheep. Dogs got a new friend and grass is taken care of.
2017-09-30 12:03:56 PM  
2 votes:
I used to say I didn't care how clothes got folded so long as they weren't on the floor, but I changed my mind about that when one of my kids took the entire stack of freshly laundered underwear and threw them back in their hamper, and then complained a few days later that they were out of underwear. That is officially folding clothes wrong.
2017-09-30 10:53:31 AM  
2 votes:

ginandbacon: So the fact that she's in charge of the household and their budget means he shouldn't figure out how to make one day easier for her?

It sounds like what you are saying is that she should lower her expectations.
img.fark.net

2017-09-30 09:56:46 AM  
2 votes:

Fano: Adss2009: Every team I've been on has had a team lead who is responsible for the overall success of the team and does the mental work of synthesizing, reviewing, planning the overall work of the team. Good leaders encourage and develop the initiative of the team. But (usually) that leader is recognized as such, compensated better (either pay or benefits such as deference to guidance or whatever).
In a relationship and managing a household, the author argues, that the default is that the woman is the de facto leader responsible for doing all of the team leader work while both the man and woman are responsible for executing the required tasks. I mean, as said earlier in the thread, cooking, cleaning, etc. are not innate tasks that people are just "good" at. But, as I've often seen, women are responsible for them because they're women, not because they're any good at them. So, even from a young age, they're trained to do them and be responsible for them in a way that men aren't.

I mean, theres a whole social tripe about the dirty bachelor. Cleaning up and maintaining a household is accepted as just something guys aren't good at and they need a woman to straighten them out and get it worked out for them.

Anyways, if a couple wants to have that division of mental responsibilities, cool, go for it. But, in my opinion, men shouldn't be going into relationships expecting their partner to be responsible for doing the leadership tasks and then act dumb or offended and say their partner should have just communicated better about expectations.

Tldr; it's guys fault for because reasons


Or maybe, just maybe, the woman's not just an "insufferable nag who should just communicate better"
I mean, the guys here are trying so hard! Why aren't they being patted on the back for how hard they try! Cooking is HARD and they're just not good at it, but at least they're trying!
2017-09-30 09:26:55 AM  
2 votes:

fusillade762: ginandbacon: Annnnnd here we go.

[img.fark.net image 480x360]

But seriously, you being one of the rare female Farkers (I think), what's your take on TFA?


I thought it was spot on although not necessarily presented in the best way.

I would probably have tried to make an analogy to what it's like when you have a new hire you have to train. It's exhausting. It takes longer to show someone how to do something than it does to just do it yourself, but it's worth it because eventually, they will be able to do the work on their own.

In the domestic sphere however, men rarely get to that do it themselves point.

There were two things that jumped out at me:

The whole Mother's day debacle--the incident where her husband took out the wrapping paper and didn't put it away (are you farking kidding me?) and when she explained what she wanted for a gift which he not only didn't do, but ended up sticking her with childcare while he half-arsed cleaning the bathroom.  She wanted him to do a little research, find a good cleaning company, and get some chores done really well. He did less than she would have done on a normal day and made her pay for it. Both times he was "doing something" for her which ended up creating more work for her and got hurt and defensive when she was understandably pissed off. It's like cooking somebody dinner and destroying the kitchen in the process. Thanks?

The second thing was how their son wants a farking medal for being a good boy and their daughter just does her chores and goes on about her business. At six and four.

When I walk into a room, I ask myself what needs to be done. When I leave a room, I ask myself what I should take out of there. A lot of men ask themselves what they *want* to do. And they feel like they deserve extra credit if they do an "ought".

There is plenty of data to back this up, women in domestic heterosexual relationships do the majority of housework, childcare, and eldercare.

Someone once told me that men have all of the power and none of the responsibility. That's obviously hyperbole, but it gets at a fundamental truth.

And I need to say that I have lived with some women who are like this--they will walk into the kitchen you just spent an hour completely cleaning and leave a coffee cup in the empty sink and walk away even though the dishwasher is literally two inches to the right. WTF? BUT men have that market cornered.

The emotional cost that the author is talking about is how much more work it is to try to get your partner to do something vs. just getting it done yourself. It's like being a parent. To nag or not to nag? Either way you lose.
2017-09-30 08:36:04 AM  
2 votes:

trialpha: ol' gormsby: Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Define "need doing". Examples:

Partner A thinks the dishes need doing after 3+ dishes are in the sink. Partner B thinks the dishes need doing after any dish is in the sink. Partner B fails to communicate this requirement to Partner A, and gets mad when it is not followed.

Same thing for vacuuming: Partner A thinks vacuuming needs doing once a week, but Partner B twice a week, etc.


Okay, fair enough. I was speaking from my experience, where last night's dishes and today's dishes were waiting for me when I came from work to cook dinner - again and again and again. I don't get fussed about 2 glasses and a lunch plate. I get fussed about the pots and pans and plates and cutlery still waiting there from last night. I do 98% of the cooking, I don't think it's too much to ask that she do the dishes. Yes, that has been "communicated" multiple times over the years.

I bring out the vacuum cleaner when I see the dust bunnies start to form around the place - but I've NEVER seen her do it. I get out and do the mowing when the grass starts to get long, but I've NEVER seen her do it (it's not that difficult to drive a ride-on mower for an hour). I get out the mop and bucket to do the floors when they get a bit filthy, but I've NEVER seen her do it. She washes her own clothing.

Get the picture? I accept responsibility for putting myself in this situation. It will end as soon as I can afford the divorce.
2017-09-30 07:33:21 AM  
2 votes:
You guys are all pretty obtuse if you couldn't follow the article. The lady wants the man to take part in the management of the house, not just in the physical completion of chores. He could do so by using common sense and communicating with her. Also needs to refrain from being deliberately obtuse, as many of you are.
2017-09-30 07:03:34 AM  
2 votes:

draypresct: Weaver95: draypresct: That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.

no, that's me being tired.  I spend a LOT of time writing code.

So do I. And if I saw outputs that far out of any reasonable range as "a dozen loaves of bread", then I'd try to fix my code, not blame the way the specifications were phrased (which were perfectly fine in your example).


abend U4096, STEP01
2017-09-30 06:57:14 AM  
2 votes:

AngryDragon: So it's completely assumed that your father has all the skill, knowledge, and energy to do all the outside work without guidance or assistance, yet when he "fails" at another task that is not in his expected list of tasks it's a problem?


First off, I gave examples of indoor tasks he does just fine on his own, so he has the skill, knowledge, and energy to to plenty of things. And to be fair, my mom does plenty of outside work, but can't handle heavier tasks such as mowing the steep backyard or climbing ladders to clean gutters.

But cooking isn't hard. Taking inventory of groceries or other household items that need replenishing isn't hard. My dad isn't bad at abstract thought.

And that's the author's point. She didn't just want a clean bathroom for Mother's Day. She wanted a service to do it so neither she nor her husband would have to do it. They could both then do other tasks or play with the kids or whatever. She wanted her husband to do some of the mental heavy lifting (analogous to keeping a mental running inventory of items needed at the store) to call and get some quotes and decide on the best one. Maybe she needed to communicate it to him better (though we don't know that she didn't spell that out to him and he dropped the ball anyway), but that's her point.

If he had said that for Father's Day he wanted a garden service to come take care of the lawn and weeding and stuff, she is saying she would have called several companies to find prices for what he wanted done, and made a selection. She expected the same thing from him.
2017-09-30 06:53:53 AM  
2 votes:

draypresct: That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.


no, that's me being tired.  I spend a LOT of time writing code.
2017-09-30 06:51:26 AM  
2 votes:

Weaver95: "Buy a loaf of bread, and if there are eggs, buy a dozen."  and then I come home with a dozen loaves of bread.  yes, its cliche but when I get tired, my brain defaults to a base level of logical input command line arguments and manual input parameters.


That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.

/Speaking as someone with a few decades experience programming as a statistical analyst and having worked with hundreds of 'real' programmers, I would seriously question the competence of any programmer who responded to spec with those kinds of results. Either they don't understand English ("a" loaf), or they don't review their outputs to see if they're even marginally within a realistic range.
2017-09-30 05:53:37 AM  
2 votes:
i've had similar conversations like the ones in this article with my girlfriend.  in our case, I work third shift AND i've been a programmer most of my life.  so asking me to do things has actually been teaching her the basics of SQL scripting without her even knowing.

"Buy a loaf of bread, and if there are eggs, buy a dozen."  and then I come home with a dozen loaves of bread.  yes, its cliche but when I get tired, my brain defaults to a base level of logical input command line arguments and manual input parameters. so she's gotten better about being specific.  I honestly don't mean to be  offensive, its just how my brain works at times. drives her nuts sometimes.  communication is kind of important and getting upset when someone does what you ask but did so in a way you didn't like, want or expect isn't a necessarily going to be a problem unless you want to MAKE it a problem.
2017-09-30 05:37:01 AM  
2 votes:

Weaver95: ginandbacon: If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite.

nothing in the world works like this.  if you cannot communicate your needs and wants effectively, then it is not your partner's fault.  that's on YOU, not them.


Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Seriously, take a look around the house/apartment and make up your mind. Does {this thing} need doing? Well, you have a choice. You can do it, or you can ignore it and hope your partner decides to do it. If you decide to ignore it, then *you* are the problem, not your partner. Grow up. If you need to repeatedly explain your wants and needs about such basic things as dishes/vacuuming/shopping/washing clothes, then your relationship is headed for its ending - like mine did. I never knew people could just ignore household chores then act surprised at the consequences. My mistake, and I've learned a lesson.
2017-10-01 03:56:42 AM  
1 vote:

trialpha: Bonzo_1116: It's obvious even when you live alone...because that's what lets you know if there isn't any left in the cabinet.

Before you need it the next time, and there's magically none there to replace it with.

That's only an issue for people who don't have large stockpiles. Even for those without, tissues can be used instead for that particular usage, and a note made to go to the store later.


This is the stupidest, laziest thing I have ever heard on Fark and that's a goddamned skill.
2017-09-30 04:54:00 PM  
1 vote:
Judging from some of the comments, some misogynists too.
2017-09-30 02:28:25 PM  
1 vote:
"I was gifted a necklace for Mother's Day while my husband stole away to deep clean the bathrooms, leaving me to care for our children as the rest of the house fell into total disarray."

Wait. He disappears for a bit while she watches the children, and the entire house promptly falls apart?
2017-09-30 02:07:18 PM  
1 vote:

chaosangel: I am confused as to why this is called emotional labor.  The term mental labor makes more sense to me, as planning, comparison shopping, etc. are mental tasks. Emotional labor sounds like when I get together with girl friends who whine on and on about superficial stuff and I have to try to listen and be supportive without going into problem solving mode.

But then again, I've never been a "normal" woman and have always related better to men, so perhaps this is a new term that I've missed by limiting my interaction with girlie girls.

As for this article, it seems that this woman should be well aware that her hubby is incapable of providing her requested gift.  We all have our limits and short comings. If you can't accept that and learn to work around them, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

My hubby is a super genius code monkey. I've long ago accepted that his dirty underwear in the middle of the bedroom floor and the dishes and beer bottles all over the house are just invisible and inconsequential to him. He does what he does well, mows the lawn, takes out the garbage and that's all I'm ever going to get.


Super genius code monkey is not an excuse. In my house, we're both super genius code monkeys. This shiat still needs to get done, and I'm tired of hearing programmers (and it's always farking programmers who do this, and god help me I don't know why) make excuses for themselves instead of actually pulling their weight at home.

I'm also tired of programmers deciding that every problem at their job can be solved with a few more hours of work, conveniently leaving them too tired to do anything productive by the time they get home. Also the "I can't take a week of PTO nine months from now, I have too much work to do" refrain. But those are separate rants.
2017-09-30 01:36:36 PM  
1 vote:

draypresct: ginandbacon: draypresct: I tried reading your mind, but then I got an urge to buy a nice bottle of wine to share with my spouse tonight.

Much better impulse. :) Maybe flowers and a foot massage too...

BTW, guys, never underestimate the power of flowers. Women are idiots. We will go all gooey over flowers. It's the best lesson I taught my little brother and it's served him well. Although he pulls his own weight but everybody needs an out on occasion. Because we are all assholes sometimes. I have advice for the ladies when you fark up but that's for another thread.

Yeah, it took me a while to figure that one out. My wife is generally very practical, and I took her comments about not needing to spend money on flowers at face value for a few years.


If you want the real power, have the child(ren) pick out the flowers.  That way, its an auto win no matter what color/type/arrangement results.
2017-09-30 01:21:27 PM  
1 vote:
My husband is a stay at home dad coontil Monday). He manages our house, gets groceries, does pick up and drop off, etc. However, his memory is shiat, so I used to have to ask him to do stuff several times. We started using wunderlist and low and behold the stress on both of us has dropped considerably. We also have a shared calendar so I don't feel like the cruise director telling him what our upcoming events and obligations are. fark mindreading. Communication is king for a happy life.

I see lot of biatching online from my friends that their husband doesn't do anything and everything falls on them, but it often comes from the same friends who complain that their spouse does everything wrong. They are driving themselves crazy because they just can't stand to let their husband do a task without micromanaging it, even if his way is just as good. Some of them seem to have folded into their identity. They love playing the martyr.

It doesn't help that men are portrayed as idiots or large children in most shows and commercials. Men are often discouraged from paternity leave. They are also treated as suspect by some moms (you should have seen the thread on my mom group the other day discussing whether a male teacher and basically assuming the guy is a perv). At least 1 in every 3 visits to the store my husband gets "he's with his daddy today, huh." He's with his daddy every day, but people still feel the need to remark on it. Even my son's school has called me twice this week even though my husband is listed as the first contact and they know he does pick up and drop off. If we don't acknowledge that men can be parents and can be a contributing member of the household beyond a paycheck, there will never be an equal balance.
2017-09-30 11:34:32 AM  
1 vote:

seriously.though: casual disregard: seriously.though: AngryDragon: seriously.though: My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.

Not the same thing.  You're husband is just lazy.

Lazy, procrastinator, butthead... He's not all bad, but this bugs the hell out of me. Dog needs a clean yard, he loves dog, but doesn't see that he shouldn't be wandering around in his own filth.

Divorce him. I'm unmarried, but if something is that bad that you complain about it to strangers on a webzone, the only possible advice I can muster is divorce him. "He's not all bad" sounds like excuse-making to me.

I'm actually just super mad about it today. I asked him to do it last weekend, but he said it could wait, then he left on a hurricane relief mission, and he'll be gone a few weeks. So today I get to clean/ mow the lawn in addition to housework and homework. I also can't be a biatch about it to him cause he's literally delivering basic necessities to PR right now. So biatching on the internet helps me vent so I don't biatch at him while he's on mission.


See, now we find out why the lawn is really not mowed. This is why I'll never marry.
2017-09-30 10:49:31 AM  
1 vote:
My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.
2017-09-30 09:55:49 AM  
1 vote:
Emotional labor? Well, I like to think it could always be worse.

proof.nationalgeographic.com
2017-09-30 08:27:04 AM  
1 vote:
Good luck buddy
2017-09-30 08:22:24 AM  
1 vote:
See, to have a happy and successful marriage, what you have to do as a man is search around inside yourself and gather up all the little sweet, happy, healthy, fuzzy sane emotions, and place them gently into a sturdy wicker basket in the very serene center of your heart.

Now set it on fire.
Do what you're told without being told like a good robotic Ken doll.
2017-09-30 07:55:27 AM  
1 vote:

Weaver95: i've had similar conversations like the ones in this article with my girlfriend.  in our case, I work third shift AND i've been a programmer most of my life.  so asking me to do things has actually been teaching her the basics of SQL scripting without her even knowing.

"Buy a loaf of bread, and if there are eggs, buy a dozen."  and then I come home with a dozen loaves of bread.  yes, its cliche but when I get tired, my brain defaults to a base level of logical input command line arguments and manual input parameters. so she's gotten better about being specific.  I honestly don't mean to be  offensive, its just how my brain works at times. drives her nuts sometimes.  communication is kind of important and getting upset when someone does what you ask but did so in a way you didn't like, want or expect isn't a necessarily going to be a problem unless you want to MAKE it a problem.


Okay, you don't mean to do it, it's just the way your brain works. Fair enough - no snark, I understand. But surely you learn and adjust? You can't still be bringing home a dozen loaves of bread after X years of co-habitation? Everyone learns, or should. I learned to not assume that household chores would be roughly equal, given adjustments for hours worked/hours spent in childcare/etc. But I was wrong - shared labour would be adjusted according to how much *I* put in - IOW, the more I did, the more I was expected to do, and that didn't lead to a happy ending.
2017-09-30 06:57:11 AM  
1 vote:

Weaver95: draypresct: That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.

no, that's me being tired.  I spend a LOT of time writing code.


So do I. And if I saw outputs that far out of any reasonable range as "a dozen loaves of bread", then I'd try to fix my code, not blame the way the specifications were phrased (which were perfectly fine in your example).
2017-09-30 06:02:20 AM  
1 vote:

Weaver95: i've had similar conversations like the ones in this article with my girlfriend.  in our case, I work third shift AND i've been a programmer most of my life.  so asking me to do things has actually been teaching her the basics of SQL scripting without her even knowing.

"Buy a loaf of bread, and if there are eggs, buy a dozen."  and then I come home with a dozen loaves of bread.  yes, its cliche but when I get tired, my brain defaults to a base level of logical input command line arguments and manual input parameters. so she's gotten better about being specific.  I honestly don't mean to be  offensive, its just how my brain works at times. drives her nuts sometimes.  communication is kind of important and getting upset when someone does what you ask but did so in a way you didn't like, want or expect isn't a necessarily going to be a problem unless you want to MAKE it a problem.


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2017-09-30 03:13:33 AM  
1 vote:
So basically, this woman has these very complicated requirements about the level of cleanliness she wants, has taken on the entire duty of managing this in their daily affairs.  As a gift, she want her husband, who hasn't been doing this at all, to somehow acquire the ability to be able to make all these complicated decisions perfectly, without having to ask her for input on how she wants it, in one day.

Yeah, I'm going to go with "tough shjt", people don't read minds and if you want something a certain way, you have to communicate it, however much emotional labor it is.  You were asking for a gift that was impossible for him to give you.

(I'll mention that I don't see how cleaning should fall under "emotional labor"; her cleanliness requirements seem to be highly technical, in fact.  The act of cleaning isn't emotional work at all. If her goal is to eliminate the emotional labor part of it, i.e., needing to communicate what she wants, she could just clean it herself....)
2017-09-30 02:48:55 AM  
1 vote:
Yup.

If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite. And yeah, it's annoying.
 
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