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(Harpers Bazaar)   We are not nagging. We are just fed up   ( harpersbazaar.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, emotional labor, Gender, Emotion, Gender role, husband, Homemaker, emotional labor duties, emotional labor skills  
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4390 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Sep 2017 at 5:00 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-30 11:00:00 AM  

chaosangel: I am confused as to why this is called emotional labor.


It's because the author heard a sociological term she didn't understand, but wanted to use it anyway.

"Emotional labor" refers to literally that -- having to emote in certain ways as a requirement of your job. Think customer service type jobs. Gotta be "happy" regardless how you actually feel; most of what you do is selling your smile for a wage.

Honestly can't tell what the author thinks it means.
 
2017-09-30 11:01:59 AM  

Theaetetus: draypresct: -he was doing the thing I had most wanted-giving me sparkling bathrooms without having to do it myself. Which is why he was frustrated when I ungratefully passed by, not looking at his handiwork
Good managers give feedback on the result; it seems like she didn't care about the result, only the process.

You clipped this of its context in order to intentionally distort the article. Allow me to restore it:
In his mind, he was doing the thing I had most wanted-giving me sparkling bathrooms without having to do it myself. Which is why he was frustrated when I ungratefully passed by, not looking at his handiwork as I put away his shoes, shirt and socks that had been left on the floor. I stumbled over the box of gift wrap... I had to get a kitchen chair and drag it into our closet so I could reach the shelf where it belonged.

That, in fact, wasn't the thing she had most wanted. It didn't achieve the result she wanted, so it's not that she didn't care about the result, but rather, her desired result - being able to relax - was unfulfilled.


Perhaps I should have said that it seemed like she didn't care about her _stated_ result? My point in the post was about the feedback, though, and that would have been a good thing for her to provide either way. 

You're misrepresenting the article in the same way that Weaver, AeroJockey, and AngryDragon were. It's not about some level of cleanliness she wants or whether it's "up to her standards", but rather that she would like the household tasks done without having to spend any thought or effort on it.The previous sentence, that you also clipped out, highlights this:
I was gifted a necklace for Mother's Day while my husband stole away to deep clean the bathrooms, leaving me to care for our children as the rest of the house fell into total disarray.


No, I'm pointing out that she doesn't want the house clean; she wants the house clean in precisely the way she would do it, without spending emotional energy on a discussion. It's an important difference, and it doesn't mean that his standards are lower or higher. I usually see this when people have lived by themselves for several years before moving in together, but I could be wrong.

With regards to the clip you just posted, there are two more relevant quotes:

I had to tell him how much I appreciated the bathroom cleaning, but perhaps he could do it another time (like when our kids were in bed).
He does dishes every night habitually. He often makes dinner. He will handle bedtime for the kids when I am working.


More communication seems key here. If she'd told him that she expected him to do this after the kids went to bed, he might have been able to let her know that between putting kids to bed and washing the dishes afterwards, he didn't feel he would have the time and energy to start a deep-cleaning project. They might have been able to discuss a different solution, like contacting his mother to babysit.

Theaetetus: Had he hired a cleaning service, then she could be relaxing in the hammock with a drink and a book while he took care of the kids and house. Y'know, the sort of thing dads reasonably expect (and get) for father's day.


It took long enough to clean the bathrooms that 'the house fell into disarray." It seems like we're talking thousands, not hundreds of dollars ($30/hr for 5-10 hours). This sort of expense can be pretty stressful, too.

As for relaxing on Father's day, well, my experience might not be normal, but I don't think that's something that parents of young children get to do, even on Father's/Mother's/birth/whateverday.  

Theaetetus: /that said, he seems clueless and she seems to be a terrible communicator, though hopefully, he reads this article


We don't know his side of the story. To her credit, she goes out of her way to point out his good qualities.
 
2017-09-30 11:02:35 AM  

seriously.though: My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.


Not the same thing.  You're husband is just lazy.
 
2017-09-30 11:06:58 AM  

AngryDragon: seriously.though: My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.

Not the same thing.  You're husband is just lazy.


Lazy, procrastinator, butthead... He's not all bad, but this bugs the hell out of me. Dog needs a clean yard, he loves dog, but doesn't see that he shouldn't be wandering around in his own filth.
 
2017-09-30 11:07:26 AM  
What I wanted was for him to ask friends on Facebook for a recommendation, call four or five more services, do the emotional labor I would have done if the job had fallen to me. I had wanted to hire out deep cleaning for a while, especially since my freelance work had picked up considerably. The reason I hadn't done it yet was part guilt over not doing my housework, and an even larger part of not wanting to deal with the work of hiring a service. I knew exactly how exhausting it was going to be. That's why I asked my husband to do it as a gift.

...and yet, for some reason, I couldn't bring myself to just tell that to him, just as I have done right now in this very blog.

You know, just like when she replied, "That's the point, I don't want to have to ask."

See? He did something wrong, you explained why you were upset. Nice, straightforward communication. None of this passive-aggressive bullshiat.

Also:

In his mind...
and

...he would take it as me saying...

Oh, now I can see why she's upset: since she can read his mind, she expects him to be able to read hers as well. :-)

I kid, partially. Yes, wanting to not have to ask him to do simple things like cleaning up after himself is not unreasonable*. Wanting him to do things a certain way because you have hidden motive ("The real gift I wanted") and then being surprised that he doesn't do it that way is unreasonable.

Aside: The fact that he needs his efforts recognized, while perhaps annoying, shouldn't be something to be pissy about, as there is probably reason for it (psychologically speaking; it may be something about his upbringing, the way his father was and he copied, etc).

It also shouldn't be something that she is just discovering. And if not, why let it just sit out there and keep letting it get under her skin?

That's the thing I don't get about people: if it bothers you, why let it continue to build up until it makes you explode? Or, if not the cause of the explosion, people certainly find that the to be the perfect time to finally vent about it (which doesn't help, as it just adds the to the clutter of the situation and lost in the emotional noise of the main problem).

* one of my peeves, in fact
 
2017-09-30 11:08:15 AM  

ginandbacon: So the fact that she's in charge of the household and their budget means he shouldn't figure out how to make one day easier for her? 

It sounds like what you are saying is that she should lower her expectations.


I was trying to say that more communication (both ways) would be key, but it looks like I failed to communicate that.

ginandbacon: draypresct:

And I appreciate your kind words and perspective which I totally failed to communicate before. Just in case you can't read my mind. ;)


Thanks!

/I tried reading your mind, but then I got an urge to buy a nice bottle of wine to share with my spouse tonight.
 
2017-09-30 11:08:32 AM  

AntonChigger: stainedglassdoll: AntonChigger: I love it when my wife gets mad at a mess that I didn't realize I made in the kitchen, but when I offer to take responsibility and clean it up because I am literally two feet away, she goes "no I'll just do it" and then proceeds to be grouchy about having to clean it up for a while afterwards.

Maybe your wife is not grouchy about having to clean it up, but because you're so self-unaware that you don't even realize you're making messes.

/kind of the point of the article

Yeah I'm workin on it, but it would be nice to be given the opportunity to take responsibility for my mistakes and fix them so I can improve myself.

/marriage is always a work in progress


If you're truly making an effort, that's great.  But language like "I offered to clean it up and she said no" shifts the responsibility from you to her.  Maybe don't offer but just get up and clean it?

I swear I'm not trying to be a coont to you, just using your post as an example that there's a lot of subliminal and subconscious shifting of blame people (but largely men in this context) tend to do because it's difficult to change.

FWIW, my husband has a curious habit of leaving cabinet doors open after putting away the dishes.  Drives me nuts, sometimes I ask him to close them and sometimes it's easier to do it myself.  I acknowledge both that 1) he has trouble remembering to close them and that 2) it would be less work for me if he did remember.

For small things like that it's not a big deal, but scale it up to the whole household and both sides get frustrated.  The solution shouldn't be, as many in this thread have suggested, that the wife/gf just communicate more specifications and requirements; that's making more work for her.  There should be a middle ground where maybe she can try to communicate better but also men can make more of an effort.
 
2017-09-30 11:11:37 AM  

Bumblefark: chaosangel: I am confused as to why this is called emotional labor.

It's because the author heard a sociological term she didn't understand, but wanted to use it anyway.

"Emotional labor" refers to literally that -- having to emote in certain ways as a requirement of your job. Think customer service type jobs. Gotta be "happy" regardless how you actually feel; most of what you do is selling your smile for a wage.

Honestly can't tell what the author thinks it means.


Think of the energy it takes to start a new project, introduce collaborators and keep them working amiably together, and to make sure that the deliverables are being produced on time. Calling it "emotional energy" doesn't bother me; it seemed pretty clear what she was talking about.
 
2017-09-30 11:12:58 AM  

draypresct: It took long enough to clean the bathrooms that 'the house fell into disarray." It seems like we're talking thousands, not hundreds of dollars ($30/hr for 5-10 hours). This sort of expense can be pretty stressful, too.


And I completely fail at math today.
 
2017-09-30 11:16:04 AM  

draypresct: I tried reading your mind, but then I got an urge to buy a nice bottle of wine to share with my spouse tonight.


Much better impulse. :) Maybe flowers and a foot massage too...

BTW, guys, never underestimate the power of flowers. Women are idiots. We will go all gooey over flowers. It's the best lesson I taught my little brother and it's served him well. Although he pulls his own weight but everybody needs an out on occasion. Because we are all assholes sometimes. I have advice for the ladies when you fark up but that's for another thread.
 
2017-09-30 11:19:13 AM  

seriously.though: AngryDragon: seriously.though: My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.

Not the same thing.  You're husband is just lazy.

Lazy, procrastinator, butthead... He's not all bad, but this bugs the hell out of me. Dog needs a clean yard, he loves dog, but doesn't see that he shouldn't be wandering around in his own filth.


Divorce him. I'm unmarried, but if something is that bad that you complain about it to strangers on a webzone, the only possible advice I can muster is divorce him. "He's not all bad" sounds like excuse-making to me.
 
2017-09-30 11:20:42 AM  

ginandbacon: draypresct: I tried reading your mind, but then I got an urge to buy a nice bottle of wine to share with my spouse tonight.

Much better impulse. :) Maybe flowers and a foot massage too...

BTW, guys, never underestimate the power of flowers. Women are idiots. We will go all gooey over flowers. It's the best lesson I taught my little brother and it's served him well. Although he pulls his own weight but everybody needs an out on occasion. Because we are all assholes sometimes. I have advice for the ladies when you fark up but that's for another thread.


Yeah, it took me a while to figure that one out. My wife is generally very practical, and I took her comments about not needing to spend money on flowers at face value for a few years.
 
2017-09-30 11:27:55 AM  

Boudyro: From TFA she said "get a service if it isn't too expensive" he determined it was too expensive and focused on dealing with the primary thing she wanted the service for. There are a couple of points here: 1) Such services are always priced based on the region and, barring hiring an illegal alien or a random person, they going to be very close in price. 2) As far as I know, cleaning services as a rule do not pick up your shiat for you. You are expected to do that yourself so they can come in and efficiently dust/vacuum/mop/bathrooms, then GTFO to the next client. So her being annoyed that she had clean bathrooms but still had to pick up around the house would not have been resolved anyway.


There is a huge disparity in what cleaning services cost and what they will do (including 'pick up your shiat') I know this because I did the 'emotional labor' and found a cleaning service for an unwell neighbor who couldn't clean his own home. There are some who 'don't do windows,' and there are some who will dust all of your DVD cases with a Q-tip. He required one that would clean cat boxes. (They told me they would over the phone, they arrived for an assessment and told him they wouldn't, made the legally blind guy who can barely walk do it himself. Pissed me off, but there was nothing I could do about it by then.) If you're going to hire someone to do a thing, you don't quit after checking ONE.

But, here's the thing, we women do this to ourselves. At least, I do, and it sounds like the woman in the article does, too. Yes, you are taught to take on these sorts of tasks quietly and just get them done. When you do that, your partner never learns how to do these tasks and, half the time, never realizes they need doing. Inventorying the food and keeping a running tally of what you need to get at the store (and being able to adjust that for what's on sale, and meal-planning), that is HARD. Vetting a cleaning service is HARD. Keeping the laundry sorted and knowing who's running low on what clothing item and what load needs doing - HARD. It has to be learned. If the man (or clueless, non-gendered person) in your life did not pick up those skills prior to the relationship, they need time within the relationship to learn them. And, if you're the one who knows how, you have to show them... and be patient with them when they screw it up because they WILL screw it up, or at least not perform it to your standards.

I am not that patient. My husband has basically ceded the food and the kitchen to me, because I know how to manage it and he doesn't and I get irritated when he doesn't and I figure I'll probably outlive him or we'll go out together in some kind of glorious fireball. I asked him to make Jello, once. He made the Jello wrong. He produced Jello, but he used many more dishes than he needed. (All you need is the medium-sized measuring cup and a whisk, and two goblets to pour the Jello into. You make it with ice so it sets faster and you don't have to boil the water on the stove, it just needs to be hot enough to dissolve the sugar. Two minutes in the microwave will do it.) But I caught myself, while complaining about this, because, how the hell was he supposed to know? When was the last time he made Jello? Only the thing with the ice is on the package, and it's segregated in its own little box away from the directions. And of course I didn't think to tell him about it because I've made it so many times it seems obvious. And that is just a teeny-tiny thing. 'Fastest Jello with the fewest dishes that takes up the least space in the fridge.' This woman's husband vetted the cleaning companies wrong, but that is WAY more complicated. She either has to be willing to teach him (and he has to be willing to learn), or she has to be willing to throw him into the water and let him screw up until he figures it out on his own - while still being supportive of the effort. That is also really hard. It is so much easier to just do it, and then we wonder how our partners can be so stupid.

And your partner knows you think he is being stupid, and you are impatient with him. That's why they cleave so strongly to shopping lists and precise instructions and being told what to do. "Well, when I get it wrong, you get pissed off, so just tell me exactly what you want and I'll do that." That's easier, but it results in the man (or clueless, non-gendered person) going to the store and coming home without the chips he wanted because they weren't on the list. And then you get irritated with him for that.

Yeah, it would be great if everyone picked up these things as they matured, but for whatever reasons (nature/nurture) some don't. When you're in a relationship with someone who doesn't know how laundry works, you can either teach them, let them figure it out themselves, or do it forever. The option that results in the 'emotional labor' and the nagging and the clueless spouse is the one that results in fewer ruined clothes (or dishes, or botched attempts to solve the 'clean bathroom' problem), so that's the one we go with. I'm not saying I'm better than this, I'm not, but it's a systemic problem rather than one partner or the other, and it's beyond simple communication. There's an experience gap, and those of us who have the experience help perpetuate it.
 
2017-09-30 11:29:10 AM  

casual disregard: seriously.though: AngryDragon: seriously.though: My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.

Not the same thing.  You're husband is just lazy.

Lazy, procrastinator, butthead... He's not all bad, but this bugs the hell out of me. Dog needs a clean yard, he loves dog, but doesn't see that he shouldn't be wandering around in his own filth.

Divorce him. I'm unmarried, but if something is that bad that you complain about it to strangers on a webzone, the only possible advice I can muster is divorce him. "He's not all bad" sounds like excuse-making to me.


I'm actually just super mad about it today. I asked him to do it last weekend, but he said it could wait, then he left on a hurricane relief mission, and he'll be gone a few weeks. So today I get to clean/ mow the lawn in addition to housework and homework. I also can't be a biatch about it to him cause he's literally delivering basic necessities to PR right now. So biatching on the internet helps me vent so I don't biatch at him while he's on mission.
 
2017-09-30 11:29:19 AM  
So if I have to set out lingerie for Mrs. SpocksEars to wear every farking time I'd like something special, because she will never do it on her own, that would be what, "Sexual Labor"?

/youngest turns 18 in four years
//tick tick
 
2017-09-30 11:33:43 AM  

proteus_b: You guys are all pretty obtuse if you couldn't follow the article. The lady wants the man to take part in the management of the house, not just in the physical completion of chores. He could do so by using common sense and communicating with her. Also needs to refrain from being deliberately obtuse, as many of you are.


That's actually not what she wrote. She wrote that she wanted him to give her one day where she didn't have to do "emotional labor", and she explicitly wanted him not to communicate with her.  She didn't even give him a high level overview.

I sympathize with overall problem.  It was her example that was ridiculous.  If you ladies can't see how, "I just wanted you to give me one day of what I want without me telling you actually what it was", I'd say you're the ones being obtuse.
 
2017-09-30 11:34:32 AM  

seriously.though: casual disregard: seriously.though: AngryDragon: seriously.though: My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.

Not the same thing.  You're husband is just lazy.

Lazy, procrastinator, butthead... He's not all bad, but this bugs the hell out of me. Dog needs a clean yard, he loves dog, but doesn't see that he shouldn't be wandering around in his own filth.

Divorce him. I'm unmarried, but if something is that bad that you complain about it to strangers on a webzone, the only possible advice I can muster is divorce him. "He's not all bad" sounds like excuse-making to me.

I'm actually just super mad about it today. I asked him to do it last weekend, but he said it could wait, then he left on a hurricane relief mission, and he'll be gone a few weeks. So today I get to clean/ mow the lawn in addition to housework and homework. I also can't be a biatch about it to him cause he's literally delivering basic necessities to PR right now. So biatching on the internet helps me vent so I don't biatch at him while he's on mission.


See, now we find out why the lawn is really not mowed. This is why I'll never marry.
 
2017-09-30 11:36:42 AM  

DoBeDoBeLurk: Boudyro: ...She either has to be willing to teach him (and he has to be willing to learn), or she has to be willing to throw him into the water and let him screw up until he figures it out on his own - while still being supportive of the effort. That is also really hard. It is so much easier to just do it, and then we wonder how our partners can be so stupid.
...
Yeah, it would be great if everyone picked up these things as they matured, but for whatever reasons (nature/nurture) some don't. When you're in a relationship with someone who doesn't know how laundry works, you can either teach them, let them figure it out themselves, or do it forever. The option that results in the 'emotional labor' and the nagging and the clueless spouse is the one that results in fewer ruined clothes (or dishes, or botched attempts to solve the 'clean bathroom' problem), so that's the one we go with. I'm not saying I'm better than this, I'm not, but it's a systemic problem rather than one partner or the other, and it's beyond simple communication. There's an experience gap, and those of us who have the experience help perpetuate it.


This is very well said. Thank you.
 
2017-09-30 11:38:33 AM  
The answer is right there in the first couple of paragraphs. Whenever he does something, it isn't to her standards, so he's given up on trying.
 
2017-09-30 11:39:12 AM  

fusillade762: What I wanted was for him to ask friends on Facebook for a recommendation, call four or five more services, do the emotional labor I would have done if the job had fallen to me.

Did you try telling him that?

This reminds me a lot of my mom.

"I want you to do X"

"Okay" *begin doing X*

"No, not like that..."


And this is why I still won't fold laundry to this day.

CSB:  I had just finished cleaning the house by myself because her family was coming over.  After that she asked me to fold the laundry while she got ready... no big deal.  I folded like I had for over a decade (I had been doing all the laundry for us both up until this point).  Screaming ensued at how I folded the towels.  When she took a breath I looked at her and said "I will never do laundry again.  This is your job from now on."

I've stuck to it for over a year now and we joke about it a lot.  I'll wash it, dry it, and take it out of the dryer but I refuse to fold it.
 
2017-09-30 11:39:48 AM  

draypresct: No, I'm pointing out that she doesn't want the house clean; she wants the house clean in precisely the way she would do it, without spending emotional energy on a discussion. It's an important difference, and it doesn't mean that his standards are lower or higher. I usually see this when people have lived by themselves for several years before moving in together, but I could be wrong.


I think you're projecting something that isn't in the article. She was fine with him choosing whichever cleaning service and getting it done. As you note, she was even fine with him doing it himself... later,so that she didn't have to watch the kids:
I had to tell him how much I appreciated the bathroom cleaning, but perhaps he could do it another time (like when our kids were in bed).

More communication seems key here. If she'd told him that she expected him to do this after the kids went to bed, he might have been able to let her know that between putting kids to bed and washing the dishes afterwards, he didn't feel he would have the time and energy to start a deep-cleaning project. They might have been able to discuss a different solution, like contacting his mother to babysit.


Your solution to her wanting not to spend emotional energy on it is that she should micromanage him and have committee meetings about solutions?
Again, I think you're missing the point. She didn't specifically want it done "after the kids went to bed". After all, her first thought was a cleaning service, and they don't exactly show up at 9 pm. No, the point was that she didn't want to deal with the kids, and him saying "my gift to you is that I'll be in the bathroom for the next hour and you have to watch the kids" is not a gift at all.
She wanted to relax, and doesn't want to think about chores. Having discussions about timing, when she expects shiat, or dealing with his mother are exactly the opposite of what she wants.

Theaetetus: Had he hired a cleaning service, then she could be relaxing in the hammock with a drink and a book while he took care of the kids and house. Y'know, the sort of thing dads reasonably expect (and get) for father's day.

It took long enough to clean the bathrooms that 'the house fell into disarray." It seems like we're talking thousands, not hundreds of dollars ($30/hr for 5-10 hours). This sort of expense can be pretty stressful, too.

First, that's still in the hundreds range. Thousands would need 30+ hours.
Second, the house was in disarray because of the kids.
Third, she handles the budget and she was the one who suggested a cleaning service, so I don't think she's stressed by the cost.
Fourth, you're still trying to argue that this is about the cleaning, and not about her faffing off to the hammock.
 
2017-09-30 11:41:23 AM  

aerojockey: proteus_b: You guys are all pretty obtuse if you couldn't follow the article. The lady wants the man to take part in the management of the house, not just in the physical completion of chores. He could do so by using common sense and communicating with her. Also needs to refrain from being deliberately obtuse, as many of you are.

That's actually not what she wrote. She wrote that she wanted him to give her one day where she didn't have to do "emotional labor", and she explicitly wanted him not to communicate with her.  She didn't even give him a high level overview.

I sympathize with overall problem.  It was her example that was ridiculous.  If you ladies can't see how, "I just wanted you to give me one day of what I want without me telling you actually what it was", I'd say you're the ones being obtuse.


She explicitly told him what she wanted, a professional cleaning service to come in and take care of shiat.

Not only did he not give her that, he made her life worse.
 
2017-09-30 11:43:26 AM  

seriously.though: AngryDragon: seriously.though: My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.

Not the same thing.  You're husband is just lazy.

Lazy, procrastinator, butthead... He's not all bad, but this bugs the hell out of me. Dog needs a clean yard, he loves dog, but doesn't see that he shouldn't be wandering around in his own filth.


A daily beer is about $30/week, given the markup most places have when you buy 'em one at a time. A yard mowing service should be less than $60 every two weeks. Sounds like he should give up the beer and hire someone, or keep the beer and mow the lawn every other week.
 
2017-09-30 11:46:51 AM  

Roja Herring: fusillade762: What I wanted was for him to ask friends on Facebook for a recommendation, call four or five more services, do the emotional labor I would have done if the job had fallen to me.

Did you try telling him that?

This reminds me a lot of my mom.

"I want you to do X"

"Okay" *begin doing X*

"No, not like that..."

And this is why I still won't fold laundry to this day.

CSB:  I had just finished cleaning the house by myself because her family was coming over.  After that she asked me to fold the laundry while she got ready... no big deal.  I folded like I had for over a decade (I had been doing all the laundry for us both up until this point).  Screaming ensued at how I folded the towels.  When she took a breath I looked at her and said "I will never do laundry again.  This is your job from now on."

I've stuck to it for over a year now and we joke about it a lot.  I'll wash it, dry it, and take it out of the dryer but I refuse to fold it.


Ok, I was mildly making a joke before about the lady whose husband didn't mow the lawn because he went on vacation to Puerto Rico without her.

But this, this is the real reason why I'll never marry. You cleaned the whole house and folded a towel wrong (how even is that possible) and screaming ensued? On what green earth...?

Dealing with my own farkups is difficult enough. Inviting some crazy person to live with me is just too much to bear.
 
2017-09-30 11:48:10 AM  

Theaetetus: seriously.though: AngryDragon: seriously.though: My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.

Not the same thing.  You're husband is just lazy.

Lazy, procrastinator, butthead... He's not all bad, but this bugs the hell out of me. Dog needs a clean yard, he loves dog, but doesn't see that he shouldn't be wandering around in his own filth.

A daily beer is about $30/week, given the markup most places have when you buy 'em one at a time. A yard mowing service should be less than $60 every two weeks. Sounds like he should give up the beer and hire someone, or keep the beer and mow the lawn every other week.


We found a place that does it for $35 for every two weeks and it was the best thing we could have done.  No more stressing about not having time to do it or resentment about getting nagged to do it.  It also gives me more time to drink beer and hangout with my kid.
 
2017-09-30 11:56:19 AM  

casual disregard: See, now we find out why the lawn is really not mowed. This is why I'll never marry.


So because I asked him 2 weeks ago to do it, and because this has been the one source of contention for years, because I do everything else on top of school full-time, I'm a biatch and all women are the same. I just want to know why exactly he gets a free pass and I should be grateful to do the lawn for him. I pick up a lot of slack because I support him and what he does, but I physically have problems with the lawn, and it's literally the one thing that I need him to do. It's ok though, I'm the asshole for being displeased with it.
 
2017-09-30 11:57:33 AM  

Roja Herring: We found a place that does it for $35 for every two weeks and it was the best thing we could have done.  No more stressing about not having time to do it or resentment about getting nagged to do it.  It also gives me more time to drink beer and hangout with my kid.


We got a cleaning service for the same reason. Hate having to do it, hate stressing over it or nagging over it, and the money is worth it for the reduced stress and increased relaxation.
 
2017-09-30 12:03:56 PM  
I used to say I didn't care how clothes got folded so long as they weren't on the floor, but I changed my mind about that when one of my kids took the entire stack of freshly laundered underwear and threw them back in their hamper, and then complained a few days later that they were out of underwear. That is officially folding clothes wrong.
 
2017-09-30 12:04:23 PM  

seriously.though: casual disregard: See, now we find out why the lawn is really not mowed. This is why I'll never marry.

So because I asked him 2 weeks ago to do it, and because this has been the one source of contention for years, because I do everything else on top of school full-time, I'm a biatch and all women are the same. I just want to know why exactly he gets a free pass and I should be grateful to do the lawn for him. I pick up a lot of slack because I support him and what he does, but I physically have problems with the lawn, and it's literally the one thing that I need him to do. It's ok though, I'm the asshole for being displeased with it.


I don't think you're an asshole at all. I was partly making a bad joke which I'll freely admit was in poor taste. I do think you are experiencing cognitive dissonance, however. My original advice of "divorce him" stands as genuine. If you're in a bad situation and it's causing you stress, you have no reason to stay there.

I think the biggest problem isn't men, women, couples, dating, or all that stuff. I think people are too willing to leap blindly into marriage without accepting the consequences of having made a binding contract. Thankfully divorce has never been easier.

As far as individual need goes, my personal belief is that I fulfill my needs. I don't fulfill anyone else's, and nobody else can possibly fulfill mine. Is that so weird?
 
2017-09-30 12:06:02 PM  

seriously.though: I'm the asshole for being displeased with it.


No you're not.
 
2017-09-30 12:09:42 PM  

casual disregard: seriously.though: casual disregard: See, now we find out why the lawn is really not mowed. This is why I'll never marry.

So because I asked him 2 weeks ago to do it, and because this has been the one source of contention for years, because I do everything else on top of school full-time, I'm a biatch and all women are the same. I just want to know why exactly he gets a free pass and I should be grateful to do the lawn for him. I pick up a lot of slack because I support him and what he does, but I physically have problems with the lawn, and it's literally the one thing that I need him to do. It's ok though, I'm the asshole for being displeased with it.

I don't think you're an asshole at all. I was partly making a bad joke which I'll freely admit was in poor taste. I do think you are experiencing cognitive dissonance, however. My original advice of "divorce him" stands as genuine. If you're in a bad situation and it's causing you stress, you have no reason to stay there.

I think the biggest problem isn't men, women, couples, dating, or all that stuff. I think people are too willing to leap blindly into marriage without accepting the consequences of having made a binding contract. Thankfully divorce has never been easier.

As far as individual need goes, my personal belief is that I fulfill my needs. I don't fulfill anyone else's, and nobody else can possibly fulfill mine. Is that so weird?


Getting divorced cause he won't mow the lawn seems incredibly disproportionate. I put up with it because everything else is alright. We aren't perfect, but if the lawn is my biggest issue, then I'm doing better than most.
 
2017-09-30 12:14:37 PM  

Weaver95: ol' gormsby: Weaver95: ginandbacon: If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite.

nothing in the world works like this.  if you cannot communicate your needs and wants effectively, then it is not your partner's fault.  that's on YOU, not them.

Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Seriously, take a look around the house/apartment and make up your mind. Does {this thing} need doing? Well, you have a choice. You can do it, or you can ignore it and hope your partner decides to do it. If you decide to ignore it, then *you* are the problem, not your partner. Grow up. If you need to repeatedly explain your wants and needs about such basic things as dishes/vacuuming/shopping/washing clothes, then your relationship is headed for its ending - like mine did. I never knew people could just ignore household chores then act surprised at the consequences. My mistake, and I've learned a lesson.

did you bother to read the article?  looks like that's exactly what hubby here was already doing...he just wasn't doing it to HER standards...which she is apparently tired and offended to bother explaining to her husband.


You totally nailed it Weaver. The husband in this article pretty much sounds like me in terms of how I help manage our kids and house with Mrs. Doomsday.

The difference here is that my wife and I hashed out differences in how we are uniquely wired, and what we think is fair. That's how relationships work. This woman is just in a perpetual state of looking for her husband's emotional blind spots.

BTW- this practice is not just a "chick" thing. I've watched it ruin a number of otherwise great relationships for both my guy and gal pals...
 
2017-09-30 12:16:13 PM  

seriously.though: casual disregard: See, now we find out why the lawn is really not mowed. This is why I'll never marry.

So because I asked him 2 weeks ago to do it, and because this has been the one source of contention for years, because I do everything else on top of school full-time, I'm a biatch and all women are the same. I just want to know why exactly he gets a free pass and I should be grateful to do the lawn for him. I pick up a lot of slack because I support him and what he does, but I physically have problems with the lawn, and it's literally the one thing that I need him to do. It's ok though, I'm the asshole for being displeased with it.


No, no, he meant "this is why I'll never marry" to mean "this attitude of mine is why no one would ever agree to marry me and I'll die alone."
 
2017-09-30 12:16:22 PM  

draypresct: Bumblefark: chaosangel: I am confused as to why this is called emotional labor.

It's because the author heard a sociological term she didn't understand, but wanted to use it anyway.

"Emotional labor" refers to literally that -- having to emote in certain ways as a requirement of your job. Think customer service type jobs. Gotta be "happy" regardless how you actually feel; most of what you do is selling your smile for a wage.

Honestly can't tell what the author thinks it means.

Think of the energy it takes to start a new project, introduce collaborators and keep them working amiably together, and to make sure that the deliverables are being produced on time. Calling it "emotional energy" doesn't bother me; it seemed pretty clear what she was talking about.


If that's all she meant by it, she should have just called it "work." Yes, managing a household is work.

What seems to have happened is she wanted to invoke the concept of "emotion work," and confused it with "emotional labor" because she doesn't grasp what either term refers to. The "emotion work" in managing a household basically refers to keeping everyone happy and comfortable by making sure that things run smoothly, almost "magically" though behind-the-scenes operations, and through trading one's own discomfort for the comfort of the collective.

Not having a clear concept of the thing, what she doesn't seem to grasp is that the household manager might not be the only one in the household doing emotion work. In fact, they might just doing it more gracefully than she is.

So, at the start, she just sorta casually dismisses her husband recoiling at the cost of the maid service, and offering his labor instead. Presumably, this is because he is a petty, insufficiently-empathetic mook.

....Ooooor, could be that he's the one that manages the family's finances -- a job that definitely entails a bunch of behind-the-scenes, "magical" stuff that others in the household take for granted so long as everything keeps running smoothly on that end, much like housekeeping. Could be, he very well knew that that his wife would just assume he was being "cheap," and was willing to take that hit just to spare her the difficulty and the discomfort of having to sit down to look at the books, and explain how the cost of that maid service would cut into money being allocated toward things meant to keep the family happy.

Point being, "emotion work" is a useful concept, but using it in a lazy, hazy, self-centered way isn't particularly clarifying or productive.
 
2017-09-30 12:16:59 PM  

AntonChigger: stainedglassdoll: AntonChigger: I love it when my wife gets mad at a mess that I didn't realize I made in the kitchen, but when I offer to take responsibility and clean it up because I am literally two feet away, she goes "no I'll just do it" and then proceeds to be grouchy about having to clean it up for a while afterwards.

Maybe your wife is not grouchy about having to clean it up, but because you're so self-unaware that you don't even realize you're making messes.

/kind of the point of the article

Yeah I'm workin on it, but it would be nice to be given the opportunity to take responsibility for my mistakes and fix them so I can improve myself.

/marriage is always a work in progress


It sounds like you're close, but instead of offering to clean it up, you just start cleaning it up and apologize for not recognizing the need yourself. If she tries to push you out of the work, don't let her. Don't give on that and pretend you think she wants to do it herself. She doesn't, and shouldn't, and while she may be trying to be supporting and forgiving, it's so small and simple to take care of it in a way that leaves neither of you with even a tiny grudge. And then you really do need to give the chore enough attention in the future so that you do often take care of it on your own (before she even knows there was, briefly, a mess).
 
2017-09-30 12:19:26 PM  
I honestly feel like I'm onboard with feminism in general. As someone who works in the Tech industry, I see how shiatty women are treated, even by fairly decent guys. However, I tried to get through this article and I just couldn't. If this is what women view as feminism now, then I just don't know. It's not even that the bar is getting set too high, it's that the bar has been twisted into a complicated shape that men are now supposed to conform to, or they're "part of the problem".

I follow a number of women in the IT/Programming field off and on. I say "off and on", because they'll go from posting very interesting things that I would very much support, to then shiatting on random men for any minor infraction, to even shiatting on other women for being connected to the aforementioned men. I just don't get it. When you're blasting even your allies without explanation or with really weird, convoluted arguments then you've gone off the rails.
 
2017-09-30 12:21:19 PM  

Theaetetus: seriously.though: casual disregard: See, now we find out why the lawn is really not mowed. This is why I'll never marry.

So because I asked him 2 weeks ago to do it, and because this has been the one source of contention for years, because I do everything else on top of school full-time, I'm a biatch and all women are the same. I just want to know why exactly he gets a free pass and I should be grateful to do the lawn for him. I pick up a lot of slack because I support him and what he does, but I physically have problems with the lawn, and it's literally the one thing that I need him to do. It's ok though, I'm the asshole for being displeased with it.

No, no, he meant "this is why I'll never marry" to mean "this attitude of mine is why no one would ever agree to marry me and I'll die alone."


I do love chatting with strangers on the webzones. What fun...I think I'll tie a noose next. That would be more productive.

I don't have a high opinion of myself so I avoid disappointing other people.
 
2017-09-30 12:21:29 PM  
HammerHeadSnark:
OMG, that was an angry, angry woman. Funny thing is, we'd dated for several years (6?) and got along fine. She rented her place and I owned mine. Then she moved into my place and moved out six months later in a screaming rage fit.

That was 20 years ago. I still have the drapes and the fireplace screen. And I'm happy! Yay!

Wow, that was cathartic. Thanks internet . . . you're the best.


I had this exact experience.  Are there are lot of shiatty people who don't help out?  Sure.  I'd bet it's a lot of them.  Are there people, though, who are incapable of seeing anything but what they want to see?  Yes.  What some people fail to understand, or like to elide in their articles, is sometimes that "we're just fed up" is actually code for, "we're just incapable of communicating" or "we're just abusive."   When you're upset because I do almost 80% of everything that needs to be done, including some back-breaking repairs, etc., and your method of dealing with something not to your liking is to go from 0 to rage, to the point that people (bonus points when you meet the exes and they all had the same experience!) are almost afraid to come home, well....

My favorite one was after painting the garage, repairing a door-frame, fixing her car, mopping the floors, etc., the moment she got home I dealt with a volcanic explosion over the fact a towel was not hung up properly.  She told me I was a worthless piece of shiat who would never go anywhere in life (I was supporting her at the time) and a failure as a human and I should kill myself.   

She also later wrote a blog post about me, about how I "made her feel like a nag" and she "was just fed up", leaving out any other side of the story.  I figured this was going to be it again after seeing the headline (it wasn't, fortunately).  Only reason I'm bothering to comment here. 

/person was previously great to date before moving in together
 
2017-09-30 12:22:16 PM  

Bumblefark: draypresct: Bumblefark: chaosangel: I am confused as to why this is called emotional labor.

It's because the author heard a sociological term she didn't understand, but wanted to use it anyway.

"Emotional labor" refers to literally that -- having to emote in certain ways as a requirement of your job. Think customer service type jobs. Gotta be "happy" regardless how you actually feel; most of what you do is selling your smile for a wage.

Honestly can't tell what the author thinks it means.

Think of the energy it takes to start a new project, introduce collaborators and keep them working amiably together, and to make sure that the deliverables are being produced on time. Calling it "emotional energy" doesn't bother me; it seemed pretty clear what she was talking about.

If that's all she meant by it, she should have just called it "work." Yes, managing a household is work.

What seems to have happened is she wanted to invoke the concept of "emotion work," and confused it with "emotional labor" because she doesn't grasp what either term refers to. The "emotion work" in managing a household basically refers to keeping everyone happy and comfortable by making sure that things run smoothly, almost "magically" though behind-the-scenes operations, and through trading one's own discomfort for the comfort of the collective.

Not having a clear concept of the thing, what she doesn't seem to grasp is that the household manager might not be the only one in the household doing emotion work. In fact, they might just doing it more gracefully than she is.

So, at the start, she just sorta casually dismisses her husband recoiling at the cost of the maid service, and offering his labor instead. Presumably, this is because he is a petty, insufficiently-empathetic mook.

....Ooooor, could be that he's the one that manages the family's finances -- a job that definitely entails a bunch of behind-the-scenes, "magical" stuff that others in the household take for granted so long as everything keeps running smoothly on that end, much like housekeeping. Could be, he very well knew that that his wife would just assume he was being "cheap," and was willing to take that hit just to spare her the difficulty and the discomfort of having to sit down to look at the books, and explain how the cost of that maid service would cut into money being allocated toward things meant to keep the family happy.

Point being, "emotion work" is a useful concept, but using it in a lazy, hazy, self-centered way isn't particularly clarifying or productive.


Pretty sure she expressly says in the article that she manages the budget, which means she's well aware of what they can afford. She asked him to get a few quotes and they'd pick a service that fit their means.
 
2017-09-30 12:22:21 PM  

WhackingDay: I follow a number of women in the IT/Programming field ON TWITTERoff and on.


/FTFM... I don't follow them around, that would be weird
 
2017-09-30 12:23:04 PM  

casual disregard: seriously.though: AngryDragon: seriously.though: My husband also doesn't understand. He has two jobs when he's home, walk dog and mow the lawn. He's totally on board with dog, they go to the store and he buys a beer, then they go to the wooded area about 10 mins from the house and chase squirrels for an hour. The lawn is an absolute battle though. He doesn't understand that it has to be done at regular intervals, and he'll let it go for weeks. I explain that it needs to be done when it isn't raining, but he just says it's fine. It's not farking fine! It's a mess. What bugs me is when I break down and do it he gets all mad cause he was "getting to it". It takes me over an hour to get it done cause I have a bad back, it takes him about 20 mins. I do literally everything in the house, because I am a housewife and that is my job, I don't know why it's unreasonable for him to mow the stupid lawn without me being a biatch about it.

Not the same thing.  You're husband is just lazy.

Lazy, procrastinator, butthead... He's not all bad, but this bugs the hell out of me. Dog needs a clean yard, he loves dog, but doesn't see that he shouldn't be wandering around in his own filth.

Divorce him. I'm unmarried, but if something is that bad that you complain about it to strangers on a webzone, the only possible advice I can muster is divorce him. "He's not all bad" sounds like excuse-making to me.


Well, then he definitely won't mow her lawn.
 
2017-09-30 12:27:42 PM  

Roja Herring: I had just finished cleaning the house by myself because her family was coming over.  After that she asked me to fold the laundry while she got ready... no big deal.  I folded like I had for over a decade (I had been doing all the laundry for us both up until this point).  Screaming ensued at how I folded the towels.  When she took a breath I looked at her and said "I will never do laundry again.  This is your job from now on."


Oh, boy. And here's the other way we with the experience (frequently the ladies) self-sabotage. Because we've been doing it our way for so long, we develop too narrow a tolerance for 'right.' "If it's not how I do it, it's stupid and wrong! Why don't you see??" It is possible to be different but still right, and someone who is experienced in a different way or gaining new experience will often come up with a different solution - sometimes not as good, but sometimes perfectly fine. And even if it ISN'T as good, it doesn't warrant screaming, that is how you get someone to quit trying forever.

I'm sorry that happened to you, and that it happens so often in general.

stainedglassdoll: This is very well said. Thank you


Thanks.
 
2017-09-30 12:30:37 PM  

Doomsday_SC: Weaver95: ol' gormsby: Weaver95: ginandbacon: If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite.

nothing in the world works like this.  if you cannot communicate your needs and wants effectively, then it is not your partner's fault.  that's on YOU, not them.

Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Seriously, take a look around the house/apartment and make up your mind. Does {this thing} need doing? Well, you have a choice. You can do it, or you can ignore it and hope your partner decides to do it. If you decide to ignore it, then *you* are the problem, not your partner. Grow up. If you need to repeatedly explain your wants and needs about such basic things as dishes/vacuuming/shopping/washing clothes, then your relationship is headed for its ending - like mine did. I never knew people could just ignore household chores then act surprised at the consequences. My mistake, and I've learned a lesson.

did you bother to read the article?  looks like that's exactly what hubby here was already doing...he just wasn't doing it to HER standards...which she is apparently tired and offended to bother explaining to her husband.

You totally nailed it Weaver. The husband in this article pretty much sounds like me in terms of how I help manage our kids and house with Mrs. Doomsday.

The difference here is that my wife and I hashed out differences in how we are uniquely wired, and what we think is fair. That's how relationships work. This woman is just in a perpetual state of looking for her husband's emotional blind spots.

BTW- this practice is not just a "chick" thing. I've watched it ruin a number of otherwise great relationships for both my guy and gal pals...


This is completely accurate.  It isn't just women who do this -- it's just a certain personality type, at least in my experience.  I know plenty of men who destroyed their relationships the exact same way. 

Relationships that work are the ones in which people communicate, can hash out their differences, and be fair to each other.  And to push it just a little farther: to know where a partner is weak, or strong, and to accept both.  In my best relationship, we both knew what the other was good at, what the other cared about and didn't care about, and figured out how to get all those things done properly.

Communicating effectively when you like someone and don't want to hurt them or upset them may be hard, but it's way better than the end result of not doing so.
 
2017-09-30 12:35:36 PM  
This happens all the time though with people living together, doesn't have to be male-female. The problem is simply that different people have different standards of orderliness and cleanliness. If there are three people living together, and one of them feels that messiness is a problem when it gets to "mess level 3", another when it gets to "mess level 5", and the third at "mess level 7", what will happen is that the first person does all the cleaning when the mess rises to level 3, so the other two never see a mess level that engages their cleaning mode. So of course the first person gets frustrated about it and try to make the others clean more, but it's an uphill battle, because even "mess level 4" looks perfectly fine to them.
 
2017-09-30 12:41:46 PM  

UDel_Kitty: Pretty sure she expressly says in the article that she manages the budget, which means she's well aware of what they can afford. She asked him to get a few quotes and they'd pick a service that fit their means.


A parenthetical comment might not be the full picture.  My wife handles our budget; I'm the one that handles the finances -- i.e., the net money-flow, the long-term planning, the savings and investments, etc. There's lot of stuff that looks affordable from one point of view, but not from the other. Conflicts like that happen pretty regularly for us. What we can afford is rarely the same as what we should spend.

But in any case, it was just a speculative example; my point is that there very well could have been a lot of behind-the-scenes, emotion work stuff going on with the guy's resistance to the cost that she's blind to simply because she's not thinking through her concepts in a clear, disinterested way.
 
2017-09-30 12:53:51 PM  

seriously.though: casual disregard: seriously.though: casual disregard: See, now we find out why the lawn is really not mowed. This is why I'll never marry.

So because I asked him 2 weeks ago to do it, and because this has been the one source of contention for years, because I do everything else on top of school full-time, I'm a biatch and all women are the same. I just want to know why exactly he gets a free pass and I should be grateful to do the lawn for him. I pick up a lot of slack because I support him and what he does, but I physically have problems with the lawn, and it's literally the one thing that I need him to do. It's ok though, I'm the asshole for being displeased with it.

I don't think you're an asshole at all. I was partly making a bad joke which I'll freely admit was in poor taste. I do think you are experiencing cognitive dissonance, however. My original advice of "divorce him" stands as genuine. If you're in a bad situation and it's causing you stress, you have no reason to stay there.

I think the biggest problem isn't men, women, couples, dating, or all that stuff. I think people are too willing to leap blindly into marriage without accepting the consequences of having made a binding contract. Thankfully divorce has never been easier.

As far as individual need goes, my personal belief is that I fulfill my needs. I don't fulfill anyone else's, and nobody else can possibly fulfill mine. Is that so weird?

Getting divorced cause he won't mow the lawn seems incredibly disproportionate. I put up with it because everything else is alright. We aren't perfect, but if the lawn is my biggest issue, then I'm doing better than most.


Sounds like you should sell the lawn mower and get a sheep. Dogs got a new friend and grass is taken care of.
 
2017-09-30 12:54:58 PM  

Weaver95: how dare men NOT foresee the future and read women's minds!

c'mon.


This. I'M NOT A DAMNED MIND READER. TELL ME, DON'T MAKE ME GUESS.
 
2017-09-30 12:56:33 PM  

TheMarchHare: get a sheep. Dogs got a new friend


img.fark.net
 
2017-09-30 01:00:45 PM  

ol' gormsby: Weaver95: ginandbacon: If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite.

nothing in the world works like this.  if you cannot communicate your needs and wants effectively, then it is not your partner's fault.  that's on YOU, not them.

Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Seriously, take a look around the house/apartment and make up your mind. Does {this thing} need doing? Well, you have a choice. You can do it, or you can ignore it and hope your partner decides to do it. If you decide to ignore it, then *you* are the problem, not your partner. Grow up. If you need to repeatedly explain your wants and needs about such basic things as dishes/vacuuming/shopping/washing clothes, then your relationship is headed for its ending - like mine did. I never knew people could just ignore household chores then act surprised at the consequences. My mistake, and I've learned a lesson.


From a pure philosophical standpoint, NOTHING needs doing. If stuff did need doing, hoarders would not exist. This is justification for writing angry rants and getting people to your side. We all have acceptable levels of "things not being done", and those might not be the same levels of doneness someone else has. This when when you either use the smart gooey parts of your noggin and communicate in non-aggressive terms or you re-evaluate your life choices.
 
2017-09-30 01:01:44 PM  
The trick is to avoid the wife when she's in Purple Minion mode; during this phase no amount of rigorous logic will be convincing, no amount of labor will be sufficient, and following her instructions to the letter will only get you berated for being a smartass.

There will be no warnings as to when Purple Minion mode will begin or end.

Evil Twin Skippy: Also, human conversation is always shorthand. There is a lot of gaps in understanding because we really don't have the time to express every idea in Dickens level detail.


We DO have the time, however, as adults, to grasp that it is insufficient to say "Can you get that out of the way?" to a spouse who's in another room and will have at best a vague idea what the 'that' might be, and that it is also immature to then biatch and moan when the spouse asks for clarification.

Especially if said spouse asking the vague question is consistently prattling on about good communication.

bingethinker: Whenever he does something, it isn't to her standards, so he's given up on trying.


SO many marriage hassles could be avoided if both spouses would grasp the idea that the other spouse's way of doing things often works, too.

Except for loading the dishwasher. Fark's sake, anything with an indentation in the bottom, like most mugs, has to go in there tilted and not straight up and down because then you get a bunch of puddles when the load's done.

TFA: My son will boast of his clean room and any other jobs he has done; my daughter will quietly put her clothes in the hamper and get dressed each day without being asked.

That's because the poor kid already knows that if he doesn't point out the completed work to mom, she'll simply assume it wasn't done.
 
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