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(Harpers Bazaar)   We are not nagging. We are just fed up   ( harpersbazaar.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, emotional labor, Gender, Emotion, Gender role, husband, Homemaker, emotional labor duties, emotional labor skills  
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4391 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Sep 2017 at 5:00 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-30 12:57:32 AM  
how dare men NOT foresee the future and read women's minds!

c'mon.
 
2017-09-30 02:48:55 AM  
Yup.

If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite. And yeah, it's annoying.
 
2017-09-30 03:13:33 AM  
So basically, this woman has these very complicated requirements about the level of cleanliness she wants, has taken on the entire duty of managing this in their daily affairs.  As a gift, she want her husband, who hasn't been doing this at all, to somehow acquire the ability to be able to make all these complicated decisions perfectly, without having to ask her for input on how she wants it, in one day.

Yeah, I'm going to go with "tough shjt", people don't read minds and if you want something a certain way, you have to communicate it, however much emotional labor it is.  You were asking for a gift that was impossible for him to give you.

(I'll mention that I don't see how cleaning should fall under "emotional labor"; her cleanliness requirements seem to be highly technical, in fact.  The act of cleaning isn't emotional work at all. If her goal is to eliminate the emotional labor part of it, i.e., needing to communicate what she wants, she could just clean it herself....)
 
2017-09-30 03:21:47 AM  

ginandbacon: If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite.


nothing in the world works like this.  if you cannot communicate your needs and wants effectively, then it is not your partner's fault.  that's on YOU, not them.
 
2017-09-30 03:28:11 AM  
However, it's not as easy as telling him that. My husband, despite his good nature and admirable intentions, still responds to criticism in a very patriarchal way. Forcing him to see emotional labor for the work it is feels like a personal attack on his character.

so she starts off saying her hubby is great, but then he's not great.  And when she tells him he's not great, he feels sad and wants to know why...but she doesn't or can't explain her criticism (note how she SAID she was critical....?  phrasing.  its a thing) and then is shocked when her hubby gets upset.  note that its still all HIS fault.  For asking how he could help.

her: 'hey, you've been great with all the help but its not enough.'
him: 'why?  i'm doing everything you've asked. what's wrong?'
her: 'but I have to ask you for your help!'
him: 'well yeah, I can't read minds.  if you don't say something, how am I going to know what you want?'
her: 'you should just know it!'
him: 'you realize that nothing in life works like this, right?'
her: 'you just don't understand! [slams door, writes passive-aggressive blog/article]'
 
2017-09-30 03:31:44 AM  
What I wanted was for him to ask friends on Facebook for a recommendation, call four or five more services, do the emotional labor I would have done if the job had fallen to me.

Did you try telling him that?

This reminds me a lot of my mom.

"I want you to do X"

"Okay" *begin doing X*

"No, not like that..."
 
2017-09-30 04:10:13 AM  
Annnnnd here we go.
 
2017-09-30 04:11:25 AM  

ginandbacon: Annnnnd here we go.


indeed.
 
2017-09-30 04:17:13 AM  
If you don't ask for help, you don't get help.

End. Of. Story.

/offer void when code blue
 
2017-09-30 04:51:11 AM  

ginandbacon: Annnnnd here we go.


img.fark.net

But seriously, you being one of the rare female Farkers (I think), what's your take on TFA?
 
2017-09-30 05:22:38 AM  

ginandbacon: Yup.

If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite. And yeah, it's annoying.


Don't talk about my ex that way.

Hang on.......
 
2017-09-30 05:37:01 AM  

Weaver95: ginandbacon: If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite.

nothing in the world works like this.  if you cannot communicate your needs and wants effectively, then it is not your partner's fault.  that's on YOU, not them.


Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Seriously, take a look around the house/apartment and make up your mind. Does {this thing} need doing? Well, you have a choice. You can do it, or you can ignore it and hope your partner decides to do it. If you decide to ignore it, then *you* are the problem, not your partner. Grow up. If you need to repeatedly explain your wants and needs about such basic things as dishes/vacuuming/shopping/washing clothes, then your relationship is headed for its ending - like mine did. I never knew people could just ignore household chores then act surprised at the consequences. My mistake, and I've learned a lesson.
 
2017-09-30 05:40:24 AM  

ol' gormsby: Weaver95: ginandbacon: If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite.

nothing in the world works like this.  if you cannot communicate your needs and wants effectively, then it is not your partner's fault.  that's on YOU, not them.

Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Seriously, take a look around the house/apartment and make up your mind. Does {this thing} need doing? Well, you have a choice. You can do it, or you can ignore it and hope your partner decides to do it. If you decide to ignore it, then *you* are the problem, not your partner. Grow up. If you need to repeatedly explain your wants and needs about such basic things as dishes/vacuuming/shopping/washing clothes, then your relationship is headed for its ending - like mine did. I never knew people could just ignore household chores then act surprised at the consequences. My mistake, and I've learned a lesson.


did you bother to read the article?  looks like that's exactly what hubby here was already doing...he just wasn't doing it to HER standards...which she is apparently tired and offended to bother explaining to her husband.
 
2017-09-30 05:43:09 AM  
OMG, STFU.

I know that sounds horrible, but I lived with a woman that would seethe for days over some chore she mentioned but didn't exactly ask me to do. Days of angry glances until she'd stomp around and do it herself.

It was always my fault. When she moved in with her daughter she hated the drapes I had in my livingroom. She didn't say she hated them, she just harped on them until I took them to the cleaners. They were silk and the cleaning process totally ruined them. I waited for three months for her to get new drapes or even suggest we go look at some. Never happened . . . so I bought drapes and hung them myself. She was angry.

I cleaned out the fireplace and scrubbed the hearthstones until their former beauty was restored. And then I took a few hours hunting for (and buying) the perfect fireplace screen. That occasioned more anger.

OMG, that was an angry, angry woman. Funny thing is, we'd dated for several years (6?) and got along fine. She rented her place and I owned mine. Then she moved into my place and moved out six months later in a screaming rage fit.

That was 20 years ago. I still have the drapes and the fireplace screen. And I'm happy! Yay!

Wow, that was cathartic. Thanks internet . . . you're the best.
 
2017-09-30 05:47:19 AM  
She asks for a gift.  He suggests it's too expensive and decides to do it himself, which I argue is sharing the "emotional labor". She gets irritated that it isn't done to her standards and when he clearly doesn't understand her frustration, because she can't communicate it to him, she writes this rant.

Lady, the problem isn't your husband, it's you.
 
2017-09-30 05:52:46 AM  

Weaver95: he just wasn't doing it to HER standards


That's what you picked up out of it?!  JFC.

This here is part of the problem with some men:

Which is why he was frustrated when I ungratefully passed by, not looking at his handiwork as I put away his shoes, shirt and socks that had been left on the floor.

The fact that he's cleaning the bathroom needs to be a big deal and be given praise for doing it.  Never mind that she's also cleaning and taking care of the kids.  Because she didn't stop and acknowledge what he was doing, it made him unhappy.

This is another example:

"All you have to do is ask me to put it back," he said, watching me struggle.

He took something out, didn't put it back, and was upset because he wasn't asked for help to clean up a mess that he created.

The only "standard" that I can see there is that old adage of "pick up after yourself".  It's not something that should need praise or be asked for.  If you help dirty something, help clean up.
 
2017-09-30 05:53:37 AM  
i've had similar conversations like the ones in this article with my girlfriend.  in our case, I work third shift AND i've been a programmer most of my life.  so asking me to do things has actually been teaching her the basics of SQL scripting without her even knowing.

"Buy a loaf of bread, and if there are eggs, buy a dozen."  and then I come home with a dozen loaves of bread.  yes, its cliche but when I get tired, my brain defaults to a base level of logical input command line arguments and manual input parameters. so she's gotten better about being specific.  I honestly don't mean to be  offensive, its just how my brain works at times. drives her nuts sometimes.  communication is kind of important and getting upset when someone does what you ask but did so in a way you didn't like, want or expect isn't a necessarily going to be a problem unless you want to MAKE it a problem.
 
2017-09-30 05:56:28 AM  

SpaceyCat: Because she didn't stop and acknowledge what he was doing, it made him unhappy.


the possibility exists that he was telling her this so she would recognize his efforts and get clarification and/or further instruction.  we really only have ONE side of this story, tho and nothing from her husbands perspective.
 
2017-09-30 06:02:20 AM  

Weaver95: i've had similar conversations like the ones in this article with my girlfriend.  in our case, I work third shift AND i've been a programmer most of my life.  so asking me to do things has actually been teaching her the basics of SQL scripting without her even knowing.

"Buy a loaf of bread, and if there are eggs, buy a dozen."  and then I come home with a dozen loaves of bread.  yes, its cliche but when I get tired, my brain defaults to a base level of logical input command line arguments and manual input parameters. so she's gotten better about being specific.  I honestly don't mean to be  offensive, its just how my brain works at times. drives her nuts sometimes.  communication is kind of important and getting upset when someone does what you ask but did so in a way you didn't like, want or expect isn't a necessarily going to be a problem unless you want to MAKE it a problem.


The Fast Show S3E1 - Even Better Than That!
Youtube 11fCIGcCa9c
 
2017-09-30 06:15:48 AM  
img.fark.net

  " Captain, I know it was an attempt at humor but please refrain from sending links like this to my mate. Your not helping."
 
2017-09-30 06:22:08 AM  
Not shocked by the gender differences in the responders here...I've long seen this dynamic in my family. Now, my dad is very helpful and will take a lot of initiative in doing some chores. If he thinks bathroom needs cleaning, or floor needs vacuuming, he's on it. Of course he does the outside stuff without request.

But for example, god forbid he do grocery shopping without being asked. He doesn't think about, "hey, I see we're low on X, I better note that for myself, or tell M." He needs to be sent with a list, he won't just go up and gown aisles like my mom who might see something on sale or remember they need more (possibly related to the fact that my dad does none of the cooking). Even if he goes to the store, he'll inevitably be home later looking for a snack and declare, "we're out of chips!" Mom: You eat them, and you went to the store, why didn't you pick some up? Pop: They weren't on my list.

About 10 years ago, my mom badly broke her leg, right before Christmas. She was in the hospital for 2 weeks, and then confined to a wheelchair for more than a month. I still lived at home, and my oldest brother took me aside and said that I couldn't allow my dad and other brother to treat me as mom 2.0. He made it clear to them that they had to pull some weight while my mom was out of commission. They learned, a little.

I don't live with my bf, but I can see the same dynamic happening. I think we'll figure out how to balance it though.
 
2017-09-30 06:23:44 AM  

AngryDragon: She asks for a gift.  He suggests it's too expensive and decides to do it himself, which I argue is sharing the "emotional labor". She gets irritated that it isn't done to her standards and when he clearly doesn't understand her frustration, because she can't communicate it to him, she writes this rant.

Lady, the problem isn't your husband, it's you.


So basically he bought her a necklace and cleaned  the bathrooms himself and she she still writes an article to explain in all seriousness how he failed to meet her expectations by failing to address and solve the problem exactly the way that she would solve it.   There is a problem here, but it's not what you think...
 
2017-09-30 06:35:56 AM  

UDel_Kitty: Not shocked by the gender differences in the responders here...I've long seen this dynamic in my family. Now, my dad is very helpful and will take a lot of initiative in doing some chores. If he thinks bathroom needs cleaning, or floor needs vacuuming, he's on it. Of course he does the outside stuff without request.

But for example, god forbid he do grocery shopping without being asked. He doesn't think about, "hey, I see we're low on X, I better note that for myself, or tell M." He needs to be sent with a list, he won't just go up and gown aisles like my mom who might see something on sale or remember they need more (possibly related to the fact that my dad does none of the cooking). Even if he goes to the store, he'll inevitably be home later looking for a snack and declare, "we're out of chips!" Mom: You eat them, and you went to the store, why didn't you pick some up? Pop: They weren't on my list.

About 10 years ago, my mom badly broke her leg, right before Christmas. She was in the hospital for 2 weeks, and then confined to a wheelchair for more than a month. I still lived at home, and my oldest brother took me aside and said that I couldn't allow my dad and other brother to treat me as mom 2.0. He made it clear to them that they had to pull some weight while my mom was out of commission. They learned, a little.

I don't live with my bf, but I can see the same dynamic happening. I think we'll figure out how to balance it though.


So it's completely assumed that your father has all the skill, knowledge, and energy to do all the outside work without guidance or assistance, yet when he "fails" at another task that is not in his expected list of tasks it's a problem?
 
2017-09-30 06:38:30 AM  

SpaceyCat: Weaver95: he just wasn't doing it to HER standards

That's what you picked up out of it?!  JFC.

This here is part of the problem with some men:

Which is why he was frustrated when I ungratefully passed by, not looking at his handiwork as I put away his shoes, shirt and socks that had been left on the floor.

The fact that he's cleaning the bathroom needs to be a big deal and be given praise for doing it.  Never mind that she's also cleaning and taking care of the kids.  Because she didn't stop and acknowledge what he was doing, it made him unhappy.

This is another example:

"All you have to do is ask me to put it back," he said, watching me struggle.

He took something out, didn't put it back, and was upset because he wasn't asked for help to clean up a mess that he created.

The only "standard" that I can see there is that old adage of "pick up after yourself".  It's not something that should need praise or be asked for.  If you help dirty something, help clean up.


Well,
  What you are describing is a larger problem of a couple not sharing housework.  What she is describing is a situation where she asked him to something special for her.  He wants his effort to be recognized because he wants to make her happy.

If someone is doing something specifically to make you happy on a special occasion, and you biatch at them because you feel like they are not sharing the everyday load enough or can't do the job correctly, then you are super passive-aggressive and putting the relationship at risk.
Don't be nasty and passive aggressive, have an honest conversation.  Then there is an actual goalpost for hubby and hope for the future.
 
2017-09-30 06:51:26 AM  

Weaver95: "Buy a loaf of bread, and if there are eggs, buy a dozen."  and then I come home with a dozen loaves of bread.  yes, its cliche but when I get tired, my brain defaults to a base level of logical input command line arguments and manual input parameters.


That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.

/Speaking as someone with a few decades experience programming as a statistical analyst and having worked with hundreds of 'real' programmers, I would seriously question the competence of any programmer who responded to spec with those kinds of results. Either they don't understand English ("a" loaf), or they don't review their outputs to see if they're even marginally within a realistic range.
 
2017-09-30 06:53:53 AM  

draypresct: That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.


no, that's me being tired.  I spend a LOT of time writing code.
 
2017-09-30 06:57:11 AM  

Weaver95: draypresct: That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.

no, that's me being tired.  I spend a LOT of time writing code.


So do I. And if I saw outputs that far out of any reasonable range as "a dozen loaves of bread", then I'd try to fix my code, not blame the way the specifications were phrased (which were perfectly fine in your example).
 
2017-09-30 06:57:14 AM  

AngryDragon: So it's completely assumed that your father has all the skill, knowledge, and energy to do all the outside work without guidance or assistance, yet when he "fails" at another task that is not in his expected list of tasks it's a problem?


First off, I gave examples of indoor tasks he does just fine on his own, so he has the skill, knowledge, and energy to to plenty of things. And to be fair, my mom does plenty of outside work, but can't handle heavier tasks such as mowing the steep backyard or climbing ladders to clean gutters.

But cooking isn't hard. Taking inventory of groceries or other household items that need replenishing isn't hard. My dad isn't bad at abstract thought.

And that's the author's point. She didn't just want a clean bathroom for Mother's Day. She wanted a service to do it so neither she nor her husband would have to do it. They could both then do other tasks or play with the kids or whatever. She wanted her husband to do some of the mental heavy lifting (analogous to keeping a mental running inventory of items needed at the store) to call and get some quotes and decide on the best one. Maybe she needed to communicate it to him better (though we don't know that she didn't spell that out to him and he dropped the ball anyway), but that's her point.

If he had said that for Father's Day he wanted a garden service to come take care of the lawn and weeding and stuff, she is saying she would have called several companies to find prices for what he wanted done, and made a selection. She expected the same thing from him.
 
2017-09-30 07:00:39 AM  
Are there really men calling women nags? I hesitate to be surprised because this is kind of like when I accidentally visited a MRA site back when I thought the whole thing was a joke and found out nope, the MRAs are dead serious (as serious as they are pathetic). Maybe I'm just uncreative but I can't fathom insulting an entire half of the human population on the account of one or two bad experiences. There are good men and bad men, likewise good women and bad women. I suspect there are at least as many in any quantity belonging to any gender. There's nothing specifically about women that I would ever think to complain about.

There is another The Atlantic article by one of their better writers, Olga Khazan, about how relationships may be more precarious now because we have attached too much baggage to them. Fair warning, it's an interview with the author of a book (that I won't buy). In that light it's not so much a men vs. women divide as it is a me vs. you divide - we're just asking too much of another person. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but it's a different angle on an old idea.

/should I call it The Atlantic or just Atlantic in this context...? this seems awkward somehow
 
2017-09-30 07:03:34 AM  

draypresct: Weaver95: draypresct: That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.

no, that's me being tired.  I spend a LOT of time writing code.

So do I. And if I saw outputs that far out of any reasonable range as "a dozen loaves of bread", then I'd try to fix my code, not blame the way the specifications were phrased (which were perfectly fine in your example).


abend U4096, STEP01
 
2017-09-30 07:14:05 AM  

Weaver95: draypresct: Weaver95: draypresct: That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.

no, that's me being tired.  I spend a LOT of time writing code.

So do I. And if I saw outputs that far out of any reasonable range as "a dozen loaves of bread", then I'd try to fix my code, not blame the way the specifications were phrased (which were perfectly fine in your example).

abend U4096, STEP01


(Eyeroll)
Your specs are always written in English. If you need someone to write the program for you, you're not a programmer, you're a surly user interface.
 
2017-09-30 07:21:01 AM  
I'm sorry. I can't help you.
You will have to work out your relationship issues with the people you are actually having relationships with.
My approval or compassion won't alleviate your situation in any way.
In short, Lady - there is no point in you telling ME this.
 
2017-09-30 07:26:42 AM  
Sounds like this couple needs to have a talk.  Sounds like a lot of couples in this thread need to have a talk or three.
 
2017-09-30 07:33:21 AM  
You guys are all pretty obtuse if you couldn't follow the article. The lady wants the man to take part in the management of the house, not just in the physical completion of chores. He could do so by using common sense and communicating with her. Also needs to refrain from being deliberately obtuse, as many of you are.
 
2017-09-30 07:40:54 AM  

Weaver95: ol' gormsby: Weaver95: ginandbacon: If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite.

nothing in the world works like this.  if you cannot communicate your needs and wants effectively, then it is not your partner's fault.  that's on YOU, not them.

Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Seriously, take a look around the house/apartment and make up your mind. Does {this thing} need doing? Well, you have a choice. You can do it, or you can ignore it and hope your partner decides to do it. If you decide to ignore it, then *you* are the problem, not your partner. Grow up. If you need to repeatedly explain your wants and needs about such basic things as dishes/vacuuming/shopping/washing clothes, then your relationship is headed for its ending - like mine did. I never knew people could just ignore household chores then act surprised at the consequences. My mistake, and I've learned a lesson.

did you bother to read the article?  looks like that's exactly what hubby here was already doing...he just wasn't doing it to HER standards...which she is apparently tired and offended to bother explaining to her husband.


Yeah, I wasn't responding to the article, though.
 
2017-09-30 07:55:27 AM  

Weaver95: i've had similar conversations like the ones in this article with my girlfriend.  in our case, I work third shift AND i've been a programmer most of my life.  so asking me to do things has actually been teaching her the basics of SQL scripting without her even knowing.

"Buy a loaf of bread, and if there are eggs, buy a dozen."  and then I come home with a dozen loaves of bread.  yes, its cliche but when I get tired, my brain defaults to a base level of logical input command line arguments and manual input parameters. so she's gotten better about being specific.  I honestly don't mean to be  offensive, its just how my brain works at times. drives her nuts sometimes.  communication is kind of important and getting upset when someone does what you ask but did so in a way you didn't like, want or expect isn't a necessarily going to be a problem unless you want to MAKE it a problem.


Okay, you don't mean to do it, it's just the way your brain works. Fair enough - no snark, I understand. But surely you learn and adjust? You can't still be bringing home a dozen loaves of bread after X years of co-habitation? Everyone learns, or should. I learned to not assume that household chores would be roughly equal, given adjustments for hours worked/hours spent in childcare/etc. But I was wrong - shared labour would be adjusted according to how much *I* put in - IOW, the more I did, the more I was expected to do, and that didn't lead to a happy ending.
 
2017-09-30 07:56:35 AM  
I am confused as to why this is called emotional labor.  The term mental labor makes more sense to me, as planning, comparison shopping, etc. are mental tasks. Emotional labor sounds like when I get together with girl friends who whine on and on about superficial stuff and I have to try to listen and be supportive without going into problem solving mode.

But then again, I've never been a "normal" woman and have always related better to men, so perhaps this is a new term that I've missed by limiting my interaction with girlie girls.

As for this article, it seems that this woman should be well aware that her hubby is incapable of providing her requested gift.  We all have our limits and short comings. If you can't accept that and learn to work around them, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

My hubby is a super genius code monkey. I've long ago accepted that his dirty underwear in the middle of the bedroom floor and the dishes and beer bottles all over the house are just invisible and inconsequential to him. He does what he does well, mows the lawn, takes out the garbage and that's all I'm ever going to get.

Accepting that and learning to work around it protected me from frustration.

BTW, if you're reading this AirForceVet, thanks for the month of Total Fark. Tried to find a way to thank you, but don't know how to get you a personal message.
 
2017-09-30 08:00:39 AM  

ol' gormsby: Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!


Define "need doing". Examples:

Partner A thinks the dishes need doing after 3+ dishes are in the sink. Partner B thinks the dishes need doing after any dish is in the sink. Partner B fails to communicate this requirement to Partner A, and gets mad when it is not followed.

Same thing for vacuuming: Partner A thinks vacuuming needs doing once a week, but Partner B twice a week, etc.
 
2017-09-30 08:04:54 AM  

AngryDragon: UDel_Kitty: Not shocked by the gender differences in the responders here...I've long seen this dynamic in my family. Now, my dad is very helpful and will take a lot of initiative in doing some chores. If he thinks bathroom needs cleaning, or floor needs vacuuming, he's on it. Of course he does the outside stuff without request.

But for example, god forbid he do grocery shopping without being asked. He doesn't think about, "hey, I see we're low on X, I better note that for myself, or tell M." He needs to be sent with a list, he won't just go up and gown aisles like my mom who might see something on sale or remember they need more (possibly related to the fact that my dad does none of the cooking). Even if he goes to the store, he'll inevitably be home later looking for a snack and declare, "we're out of chips!" Mom: You eat them, and you went to the store, why didn't you pick some up? Pop: They weren't on my list.

About 10 years ago, my mom badly broke her leg, right before Christmas. She was in the hospital for 2 weeks, and then confined to a wheelchair for more than a month. I still lived at home, and my oldest brother took me aside and said that I couldn't allow my dad and other brother to treat me as mom 2.0. He made it clear to them that they had to pull some weight while my mom was out of commission. They learned, a little.

I don't live with my bf, but I can see the same dynamic happening. I think we'll figure out how to balance it though.

So it's completely assumed that your father has all the skill, knowledge, and energy to do all the outside work without guidance or assistance, yet when he "fails" at another task that is not in his expected list of tasks it's a problem?


Yep. Some people (not all) have double standards. I've come to the conclusion that you can either live with it, or move on. Currently, I'm moving on.
 
2017-09-30 08:07:28 AM  

UDel_Kitty: She expected the same thing from him.


I'm going to target this one line and hope it doesn't explode in my face.

Expectations are the idealizations of self-actualization. What are you expecting of a person who is not you? Is it something that is you? How can somebody who is not you provide something that you expect when they don't share the same brain?

Yes, you literally need to make a list for a separate entity if you expect that entity to do anything not prescribed within its ordinary script.

/probably explode anyway
 
2017-09-30 08:07:48 AM  

ginandbacon: Yup.

If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite. And yeah, it's annoying.


What if there's no agreement that it needs to be done in the first place?
 
2017-09-30 08:08:46 AM  

gnosis301: Sounds like this couple needs to have a talk.  Sounds like a lot of couples in this thread need to have a talk or three.


yeah, done talking. just waiting for the paperwork to come through.
 
2017-09-30 08:10:17 AM  

draypresct: Weaver95: draypresct: Weaver95: draypresct: That's not tired, and that's also not being a programmer. You were being passive aggressive. Own it.

no, that's me being tired.  I spend a LOT of time writing code.

So do I. And if I saw outputs that far out of any reasonable range as "a dozen loaves of bread", then I'd try to fix my code, not blame the way the specifications were phrased (which were perfectly fine in your example).

abend U4096, STEP01

(Eyeroll)
Your specs are always written in English. If you need someone to write the program for you, you're not a programmer, you're a surly user interface.


I'm a maintenance tech. We have PLCs at work. People write code for them, of course. To my specifications. This has occasioned a long conversation with a programmer who thought I wasn't smart enough to block out functions, but that's a different discussion :P

I'd take both of you dumbasses out back of the distillation units and make you listen to the vacuum pumps without hearing protection until you quit trying to "1-up" each other.

Weaver, that joke is so old my now-deceased father told it. Fark off with it.

Draypresct, you're white-knighting for a cnut. Stop it.

And if either of you arseholes is going to come back at me, I'm not going to be here. I'm going to bed, and fark both of you.
 
2017-09-30 08:11:43 AM  

chaosangel: I am confused as to why this is called emotional labor.  The term mental labor makes more sense to me, as planning, comparison shopping, etc. are mental tasks. Emotional labor sounds like when I get together with girl friends who whine on and on about superficial stuff and I have to try to listen and be supportive without going into problem solving mode.

But then again, I've never been a "normal" woman and have always related better to men, so perhaps this is a new term that I've missed by limiting my interaction with girlie girls.

As for this article, it seems that this woman should be well aware that her hubby is incapable of providing her requested gift.  We all have our limits and short comings. If you can't accept that and learn to work around them, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

My hubby is a super genius code monkey. I've long ago accepted that his dirty underwear in the middle of the bedroom floor and the dishes and beer bottles all over the house are just invisible and inconsequential to him. He does what he does well, mows the lawn, takes out the garbage and that's all I'm ever going to get.

Accepting that and learning to work around it protected me from frustration.


Goddammit you've got close to a perfect arrangement. Well done - no snark.
 
2017-09-30 08:18:34 AM  
The chief difficulty is about empowerment. He can take ownership of the things she wants, but they won't be fine her way; they'll be fine his. Because he owns it now.
 
2017-09-30 08:19:08 AM  

trialpha: ol' gormsby: Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Define "need doing". Examples:

Partner A thinks the dishes need doing after 3+ dishes are in the sink. Partner B thinks the dishes need doing after any dish is in the sink. Partner B fails to communicate this requirement to Partner A, and gets mad when it is not followed.

Same thing for vacuuming: Partner A thinks vacuuming needs doing once a week, but Partner B twice a week, etc.


The key there is need for clear communication. Just assuming your partner has  to figure it out out of the blue and being angry when they don't leads to a broken relationship.
 
2017-09-30 08:22:24 AM  
See, to have a happy and successful marriage, what you have to do as a man is search around inside yourself and gather up all the little sweet, happy, healthy, fuzzy sane emotions, and place them gently into a sturdy wicker basket in the very serene center of your heart.

Now set it on fire.
Do what you're told without being told like a good robotic Ken doll.
 
2017-09-30 08:25:03 AM  

forgotmydamnusername: ginandbacon: Yup.

If something needs doing and you can only get around to doing it if someone else tells you to, you are an immature parasite. And yeah, it's annoying.

What if there's no agreement that it needs to be done in the first place?


Just go clean your farking room, Kevin.
 
2017-09-30 08:27:04 AM  
Good luck buddy
 
2017-09-30 08:36:04 AM  

trialpha: ol' gormsby: Jesu, what are you smoking? Do the dishes need doing? Do them. Does the vacuuming need doing? Do it. Does the {whatever} need doing? THEN FARKING DO IT!

Define "need doing". Examples:

Partner A thinks the dishes need doing after 3+ dishes are in the sink. Partner B thinks the dishes need doing after any dish is in the sink. Partner B fails to communicate this requirement to Partner A, and gets mad when it is not followed.

Same thing for vacuuming: Partner A thinks vacuuming needs doing once a week, but Partner B twice a week, etc.


Okay, fair enough. I was speaking from my experience, where last night's dishes and today's dishes were waiting for me when I came from work to cook dinner - again and again and again. I don't get fussed about 2 glasses and a lunch plate. I get fussed about the pots and pans and plates and cutlery still waiting there from last night. I do 98% of the cooking, I don't think it's too much to ask that she do the dishes. Yes, that has been "communicated" multiple times over the years.

I bring out the vacuum cleaner when I see the dust bunnies start to form around the place - but I've NEVER seen her do it. I get out and do the mowing when the grass starts to get long, but I've NEVER seen her do it (it's not that difficult to drive a ride-on mower for an hour). I get out the mop and bucket to do the floors when they get a bit filthy, but I've NEVER seen her do it. She washes her own clothing.

Get the picture? I accept responsibility for putting myself in this situation. It will end as soon as I can afford the divorce.
 
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