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(New York Daily News)   "Where do you want this pallet of water?" "I dunno, just throw it in the back of the plane"   ( nydailynews.com) divider line
    More: Florida, Flight, welfare charity Wings, 66-foot twin-engine plane, Puerto Rico, dangling entry stairway, Wing, fort lauderdale, Rescue President Ric  
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9096 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Sep 2017 at 11:56 PM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-28 09:06:53 PM  
"We are the Self-Preservation Sociiiiiety!"
 
2017-09-28 09:18:08 PM  
"We've taken water before but we've never done a whole pallet like that," said Browde, 63. "Someone made a mistake."

Who was supervising the loading of the plane? I'm not an aviator, but I have flown on small aircraft and been part of the "musical chairs" of redistributing the weight to make sure the plane is stable for takeoff and landing.

I am in the transportation business, I had a guy call me about water and Gatorade pallets for a run to Houston after Harvey. I think we estimated they had a gross weight of about 105,000 lbs. (normal legal highway weight on 5 axles is 80,000). I was more worried about the trailer, handling, and braking than them getting a ticket.
 
2017-09-28 09:49:06 PM  
In my former career, loading aircraft correctly was very, very important. One measured the pallets' and vehicles' weights carefully, established centers of gravity and determined what loads went where within what aircraft that were deploying for that mission.

This doesn't sound well thought out.
 
2017-09-28 10:05:22 PM  
"We've taken water before but we've never done a whole pallet like that," said Browde, 63. "Someone made a mistake."

YOU DUN GOOFED!
img.fark.net
 
2017-09-28 10:06:10 PM  
Bad time to point out the Puerto Rico is surrounded by water?
 
2017-09-28 11:20:56 PM  

Unobtanium: "We've taken water before but we've never done a whole pallet like that," said Browde, 63. "Someone made a mistake."

Who was supervising the loading of the plane? I'm not an aviator, but I have flown on small aircraft and been part of the "musical chairs" of redistributing the weight to make sure the plane is stable for takeoff and landing.

I am in the transportation business, I had a guy call me about water and Gatorade pallets for a run to Houston after Harvey. I think we estimated they had a gross weight of about 105,000 lbs. (normal legal highway weight on 5 axles is 80,000). I was more worried about the trailer, handling, and braking than them getting a ticket.


Yeah, how do you now know how much weight is on the plane to make sure you have enough fuel to get where you're going?  Isn't that something you're supposed to check?
 
2017-09-28 11:21:53 PM  

vudukungfu: Bad time to point out the Puerto Rico is surrounded by water?


Good point.
They should be using a couple of these

img.fark.net
 
2017-09-29 12:04:25 AM  

Unobtanium: "We've taken water before but we've never done a whole pallet like that," said Browde, 63. "Someone made a mistake."

Who was supervising the loading of the plane? I'm not an aviator, but I have flown on small aircraft and been part of the "musical chairs" of redistributing the weight to make sure the plane is stable for takeoff and landing.

I am in the transportation business, I had a guy call me about water and Gatorade pallets for a run to Houston after Harvey. I think we estimated they had a gross weight of about 105,000 lbs. (normal legal highway weight on 5 axles is 80,000). I was more worried about the trailer, handling, and braking than them getting a ticket.


Weight of tractor (full fuel) plus dry van trailer is somewhere around 33,000 lbs.
Under ordinary running rules you can take about 46,000 lbs of that liquid in the truck, depending.
105K would be about three truckloads.
Liquid. It's heavy.
 
2017-09-29 12:05:31 AM  

bearded clamorer: vudukungfu: Bad time to point out the Puerto Rico is surrounded by water?

Good point.
They should be using a couple of these

[img.fark.net image 480x320]


That poor seagull.
 
2017-09-29 12:07:21 AM  
This would been a lot lighter:

images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com
 
2017-09-29 12:12:20 AM  

AirForceVet: In my former career, loading aircraft correctly was very, very important. One measured the pallets' and vehicles' weights carefully, established centers of gravity and determined what loads went where within what aircraft that were deploying for that mission.

This doesn't sound well thought out.


This kind of institutional intelligence is why the military should be all over this - and I bet they are.
 
2017-09-29 12:12:33 AM  
Thanks Trump !
 
2017-09-29 12:13:56 AM  
"As the plane remained diagonal, pointing skyward, Wings of Rescue President Ric Browde sat dejectedly on its dangling entry stairway and said the flight was canceled."

i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2017-09-29 12:15:32 AM  

davidphogan: Unobtanium: "We've taken water before but we've never done a whole pallet like that," said Browde, 63. "Someone made a mistake."

Who was supervising the loading of the plane? I'm not an aviator, but I have flown on small aircraft and been part of the "musical chairs" of redistributing the weight to make sure the plane is stable for takeoff and landing.

I am in the transportation business, I had a guy call me about water and Gatorade pallets for a run to Houston after Harvey. I think we estimated they had a gross weight of about 105,000 lbs. (normal legal highway weight on 5 axles is 80,000). I was more worried about the trailer, handling, and braking than them getting a ticket.

Yeah, how do you now know how much weight is on the plane to make sure you have enough fuel to get where you're going?  Isn't that something you're supposed to check?


Dude, it's just an airplane. Wing it.
 
2017-09-29 12:17:08 AM  

WyDave: This would been a lot lighter:

[images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com image 355x450]


Yeah, but you still need water at the destination to rehydrate that. Your plan isn't well thought out.
 
2017-09-29 12:17:09 AM  
What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
U.S. Cargo Plane Crashes in Bagram Airfield Afghanistan, Killing 7 ( source LiveLeak.com ) crash
Youtube M01RmcKsm2k
 
2017-09-29 12:23:49 AM  
Trump's FEMA
 
2017-09-29 12:28:33 AM  

stuffy: Trump's FEMA


Ok
 
2017-09-29 12:28:50 AM  

SpaceBison: What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
[YouTube video]


That sucked 😐
 
2017-09-29 12:30:01 AM  

MythDragon: WyDave: This would been a lot lighter:

[images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com image 355x450]

Yeah, but you still need water at the destination to rehydrate that. Your plan isn't well thought out.


Hey, one step at a time.
 
2017-09-29 12:31:05 AM  
I flew single fighters in the air force, but this plane has four engines, in its' entirety.
 
2017-09-29 12:33:28 AM  

SpaceBison: What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
[YouTube video]


Oh, God, that one isn't even funny. What was the death toll, 7 or 9 airmen and more on the ground?
 
2017-09-29 12:43:14 AM  
Instead of heavy bottled water, maybe they should have loaded thousands of Lifestraws, other filters, and purification tablets?  Just thinking out loud.
 
2017-09-29 12:43:48 AM  

AirForceVet: In my former career, loading aircraft correctly was very, very important. One measured the pallets' and vehicles' weights carefully, established centers of gravity and determined what loads went where within what aircraft that were deploying for that mission.

This doesn't sound well thought out.


Not to mention securing the load once it's aboard. If it shifts in flight, it could easily be fatal. These guys don't sound like they're sufficiently trained to handle the mission they've undertaken.
 
2017-09-29 12:43:48 AM  

SpaceBison: What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/M01RmcKsm2k?rel=0&showinfo=0&autoplay=1 - _x_]


It was loaded correctly...it was secured improperly.
 
2017-09-29 12:44:59 AM  

SpaceBison: What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
[YouTube video]


I had the same thought, but was too lazy to hunt down the video. Appreciate your work ethic.
 
2017-09-29 12:45:37 AM  

Gyrfalcon: SpaceBison: What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
[YouTube video]

Oh, God, that one isn't even funny. What was the death toll, 7 or 9 airmen and more on the ground?


I kinda agree... but imagine it with the Benny Hill music
 
2017-09-29 12:46:45 AM  

Ill Mitch: SpaceBison: What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/M01RmcKsm2k?rel=0&showinfo=0&autoplay=1 - _x_]

It was loaded correctly...it was secured improperly.


The load master was probably out sick on "shiat moves around when you angle the plane" day.
 
2017-09-29 12:48:17 AM  
We'll wouldn't the plane's nose pointing upwards make it *easier* to fly? You don't even have to pull back on the stick.
 
2017-09-29 12:48:47 AM  
Planes are pretty delicate when it comes to weight and balance, they place a brace under the tail of KC135 refuelers when fueling up in case a valve malfunctions and sends all the fuel to the aft tanks. Apparently it'll lift the nose wheel right off the ground and send the boom into the concrete.
 
2017-09-29 12:52:51 AM  
A front-heavy airplane flies poorly.

A rear-heavy plane flies once.
 
2017-09-29 12:52:58 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-09-29 01:00:12 AM  
static1.squarespace.com
What's going on this thread, yall?
 
2017-09-29 01:04:39 AM  

MythDragon: Ill Mitch: SpaceBison: What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/M01RmcKsm2k?rel=0&showinfo=0&autoplay=1 - _x_]

It was loaded correctly...it was secured improperly.

The load master was probably out sick on "shiat moves around when you angle the plane" day.


He had about three years experience on the 747-400. It was more of a company culture of "good enough". The crew noticed that the load had shifted on the flight before and that one of the straps had broken loose.
The loadmaster "cinched" them down and they elected to fly.
About 8 seconds after rotation the load broke free and went through the rear bulk-head taking out hydraulics and jamming the elevator. It was determined that the airplane could have flown with the shift in CG, but the whole not being able move the elevator negated that.
 
2017-09-29 01:06:18 AM  

SpaceBison: What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
[YouTube video]


Almost identical to the 1997 crash of Fine Air 101, a cargo DC-8 that went down in Miami in nearly the same manner.

I hadn't seen that video before. It's surreal how long a plane that massive just seems to hang in midair.
 
2017-09-29 01:08:29 AM  
Thank goodness Trump suspended the Jones Act...for ten days.   Of course since it can take ships days to travel across the ocean, and days to load and unload some of the bigger ships, I don't see the suspension doing much.  Although, technically now it won't be illegal for most private boat owners to sail towards the island with relief supplies.
 
2017-09-29 01:11:56 AM  

vudukungfu: Bad time to point out the Puerto Rico is surrounded by water?


Yeah, I came here to say, don't you think they've had enough!!@2!
 
2017-09-29 01:34:15 AM  

Gyrfalcon: SpaceBison: What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
[YouTube video]

Oh, God, that one isn't even funny. What was the death toll, 7 or 9 airmen and more on the ground?


Seven crewmen on board, but nobody on the ground:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_102
 
2017-09-29 01:39:28 AM  

WittyReference: Planes are pretty delicate when it comes to weight and balance, they place a brace under the tail of KC135 refuelers when fueling up in case a valve malfunctions and sends all the fuel to the aft tanks. Apparently it'll lift the nose wheel right off the ground and send the boom into the concrete.


Thank you. You've answered a question I had for many years, but always forgot to ask. I'd see the brace, wonder if it was to help keep the aircraft secured to the ground or from rearing up, but never remembered to ask one of the crewmembers when available. Makes sense that it was for a CG issue related to fuel. TMYK.
 
2017-09-29 01:48:11 AM  

jjorsett: AirForceVet: 

Not to mention securing the load once it's aboard. If it shifts in flight, it could easily be fatal. These guys don't sound like they're sufficiently trained to handle the mission they've undertaken.


My dad has flown thousands of hours. Bush and freight pilot up in Canada, the arctic, south america, etc. He knows pilots who have died because of that. One in particular he mentioned was when he was flying Ford materials out of the Detroit area. They would load sheet metal into the planes. One pilot he knew, the loading straps broke, and however many hundreds or thousands of pounds of sheet metal all went to one side of the cargo space when the pilot initiated a turn. You aren't recovering from that.
 
2017-09-29 02:49:05 AM  
Just sayin....

www.simflight.com
 
2017-09-29 02:56:26 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-09-29 02:57:44 AM  

WittyReference: Planes are pretty delicate when it comes to weight and balance, they place a brace under the tail of KC135 refuelers when fueling up in case a valve malfunctions and sends all the fuel to the aft tanks. Apparently it'll lift the nose wheel right off the ground and send the boom into the concrete.


I loaded planes for UPS. Every one of them got a tail stand under the back because you can tail tip all kinds of ways. Some were just "indicators" so we could see if the tail was dipping but some actually supported the tail. The MD-11 seems to be the most susceptible but the A-300's could too.
 
2017-09-29 03:13:17 AM  

DiDGr8: WittyReference: Planes are pretty delicate when it comes to weight and balance, they place a brace under the tail of KC135 refuelers when fueling up in case a valve malfunctions and sends all the fuel to the aft tanks. Apparently it'll lift the nose wheel right off the ground and send the boom into the concrete.

I loaded planes for UPS. Every one of them got a tail stand under the back because you can tail tip all kinds of ways. Some were just "indicators" so we could see if the tail was dipping but some actually supported the tail. The MD-11 seems to be the most susceptible but the A-300's could too.


Crazy how delicate a 250k + pound machine is when it comes to balance. I understand it on a small scale C162 level, but the idea of a MD-11 tipping is hard to comprend even if it's a reality.
 
2017-09-29 03:48:40 AM  

WittyReference: DiDGr8: WittyReference: Planes are pretty delicate when it comes to weight and balance, they place a brace under the tail of KC135 refuelers when fueling up in case a valve malfunctions and sends all the fuel to the aft tanks. Apparently it'll lift the nose wheel right off the ground and send the boom into the concrete.

I loaded planes for UPS. Every one of them got a tail stand under the back because you can tail tip all kinds of ways. Some were just "indicators" so we could see if the tail was dipping but some actually supported the tail. The MD-11 seems to be the most susceptible but the A-300's could too.

Crazy how delicate a 250k + pound machine is when it comes to balance. I understand it on a small scale C162 level, but the idea of a MD-11 tipping is hard to comprend even if it's a reality.


The main landing gear is essentially a fulcrum in this case. If you've got a load behind the wheels heavy enough to counterbalance the weight of the of everything in front of the wheels, it becomes a gigantic teeter totter.

Think of it like this:

blog.qatestlab.com
 
2017-09-29 04:05:30 AM  
We drove 3/4 pallet of water from Columbus to Flint at the height of the crisis there.

In a Honda Odyssey.

/probably voided my warranty, but we got it there. Interesting driving with that much load on.
 
2017-09-29 04:20:28 AM  
They just need to strap some JATO rockets to the back and they'll be fine.
 
2017-09-29 05:11:06 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Unobtanium: "We've taken water before but we've never done a whole pallet like that," said Browde, 63. "Someone made a mistake."

Who was supervising the loading of the plane? I'm not an aviator, but I have flown on small aircraft and been part of the "musical chairs" of redistributing the weight to make sure the plane is stable for takeoff and landing.

I am in the transportation business, I had a guy call me about water and Gatorade pallets for a run to Houston after Harvey. I think we estimated they had a gross weight of about 105,000 lbs. (normal legal highway weight on 5 axles is 80,000). I was more worried about the trailer, handling, and braking than them getting a ticket.

Weight of tractor (full fuel) plus dry van trailer is somewhere around 33,000 lbs.
Under ordinary running rules you can take about 46,000 lbs of that liquid in the truck, depending.
105K would be about three truckloads.
Liquid. It's heavy.


The 105 K was the gross weight. We think the vehicle tare was around 30, based on the trailer
 
2017-09-29 06:10:25 AM  

SpaceBison: What may happen if you don't load your airplane correctly:
[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/M01RmcKsm2k]


I remember when that happened.  It was the most heartbreaking thing I'd ever seen.
 
2017-09-29 06:31:57 AM  
They were loading cans of V8, the plane heard Vr, and the rest is history.
 
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