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(The Hill)   President Trump: "The poor people don't pay nearly enough taxes, so let's raise their tax rates while we cut taxes on the rich"   ( thehill.com) divider line
    More: Murica, White House, President of the United States, Taxation in the United States, standard deduction, child tax credit, forthcoming tax plan, Trump, President Trump  
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4014 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Sep 2017 at 3:20 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-26 02:53:40 PM  
Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.


The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.
 
2017-09-26 02:55:14 PM  
They want to lower the taxes on the rich and pretend to not squeeze the poor too bad so they've targeted the middle and upper middle classes.  Mortgage interest deductions, pre-tax 401k, and state & local tax deductions seem to be their plan for paying for the gift to those who do not need more money.

Bloomberg ran some numbers
 
2017-09-26 02:58:27 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.


It will increase the taxes for the middle class. It may or may not increase taxes on the poor.
 
2017-09-26 03:00:04 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.


Nadie...They're Republicans led by Trump.  Go with your gut.
 
2017-09-26 03:02:00 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.

Nadie...They're Republicans led by Trump.  Go with your gut.


Tacos for lunch. Got it.
 
2017-09-26 03:03:07 PM  
The important thing is, with LESS in pocket money, then the lower rates will HAVE to BORROW more money, and THAT will pay for the tax cuts!

IT'S SO SIMPLE THAT IT'S A WONDER NO ONE EVER THOUGHT OF IT SOONER!
 
2017-09-26 03:05:58 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Tacos for lunch. Got it.


You are a goddamn genius!  :)
 
2017-09-26 03:13:17 PM  
Will sec. of treasury mnuchin produce a report on the fundamentals of tax reform holding true to the Reagan rules, fundamental principles. The first, markets allocate capital better than politicians do, tax provisions aimed at encouraging investment in one part or another of the economy is a bad idea. The second, equal incomes should pay equal taxes, and the third those who make more should pay more. It took Reagan about two years from stating the goal of tax reform until enacted. The republicans scream about balanced budgets, will any tax reform be revenue neutral using reasonable and sane projections?
 
2017-09-26 03:13:23 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Soup4Bonnie: Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.

Nadie...They're Republicans led by Trump.  Go with your gut.

Tacos for lunch. Got it.


But we only eat tacos on Tuesday.
 
2017-09-26 03:13:28 PM  
Repeal the estate tax, fark around with the AMT, dynamic scoring, corporate tax rate cuts and "broadening the base" all without adding to the deficit (or you lose the HFC nutters) means only one thing:

Bend over, America.
 
2017-09-26 03:13:29 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.


If they're doubling the standard deduction, they're also proposing to get rid of a lot of itemized deductions and the loss of the itemized will have a greater impact in the long run for a select group of middle class folks.

Presumably the most politically popular one in the GOP will be to eliminate deductions for state and local tax payments which will impact Blue states more than Red ones.
 
2017-09-26 03:17:06 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Nadie_AZ: Soup4Bonnie: Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.

Nadie...They're Republicans led by Trump.  Go with your gut.

Tacos for lunch. Got it.

But we only eat tacos on Tuesday.


Good thing today is Tuesday then.
 
2017-09-26 03:17:51 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: They want to lower the taxes on the rich and pretend to not squeeze the poor too bad so they've targeted the middle and upper middle classes.  Mortgage interest deductions, pre-tax 401k, and state & local tax deductions seem to be their plan for paying for the gift to those who do not need more money.

Bloomberg ran some numbers


A whole lot of white people in those two brackets that might not be too happy...
 
2017-09-26 03:19:50 PM  

BizarreMan: AdmirableSnackbar: Nadie_AZ: Soup4Bonnie: Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.

Nadie...They're Republicans led by Trump.  Go with your gut.

Tacos for lunch. Got it.

But we only eat tacos on Tuesday.

Good thing today is Tuesday then.

s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
 
2017-09-26 03:22:13 PM  
Trump should take a knee... to the groin!

/good luck hitting anything important
 
2017-09-26 03:23:32 PM  
Here they go...we need tax cuts for the rich but we can't run higher deficits.

Tax reform will be harder than health care reform, Corker says

But unlike some ardent tax-cut, supply-side economic supporters, Corker said he wants to make sure that any tax reform plan doesn't add to America's long-term deficit, which he said is the biggest threat to America's future.

"We've got to move ahead and try to deal with the revenue piece," said Corker, who recently met with Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin about White House plans for tax reform. "At the end of the day, our nation is going to end up with trillion dollar-a-year deficits in a just few years and we already have $20 trillion in debt."
 
2017-09-26 03:24:14 PM  
"It's time for both parties to come together and do what is right for the American people and the nation that we all love."

Well, except for those filthy kneelers, right?
 
2017-09-26 03:27:06 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: They want to lower the taxes on the rich and pretend to not squeeze the poor too bad so they've targeted the middle and upper middle classes.  Mortgage interest deductions, pre-tax 401k, and state & local tax deductions seem to be their plan for paying for the gift to those who do not need more money.

Bloomberg ran some numbers


YOU try creating a Fascist system without increasing the wealth gap between the rich and everyone else.  it ain't easy!
 
2017-09-26 03:28:04 PM  
how about we treat all income the same?

Capital gains, carried interesting, dividends, labor all taxed the same way, all have payroll tax applied to it, and there is no payroll cap.
 
2017-09-26 03:28:34 PM  
shift the tax burden to the poor and middle class?  Welp, enjoy your recession and deficit.  At least we know how this bull market will end.
 
2017-09-26 03:28:46 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Repeal the estate tax, fark around with the AMT, dynamic scoring, corporate tax rate cuts and "broadening the base" all without adding to the deficit (or you lose the HFC nutters) means only one thing:

Bend over, America.


only the bottom 99 or 98% are going to need to bend over.
 
2017-09-26 03:29:29 PM  

pacified: how about we treat all income the same?

Capital gains, carried interesting, dividends, labor all taxed the same way, all have payroll tax applied to it, and there is no payroll cap.


That would cost rich people money. The whole point of our labyrinthine tax system is to do the opposite of that.
 
2017-09-26 03:30:56 PM  
Remember, everyone pays each tax bracket that their income falls into. If you're in a high bracket, you're paying the lower bracket rates on lower parts of your income.

So, raising the lowest bracket from 10% to 12% is raising everyone's taxes.
 
2017-09-26 03:32:48 PM  

pacified: how about we treat all income the same?

Capital gains, carried interesting, dividends, labor all taxed the same way, all have payroll tax applied to it, and there is no payroll cap.


but what about the unearned income (that phrase has been eliminated from the english language these days) stock owners (no, not holders, it's owners ) who need more free money???   what will they do?
 
2017-09-26 03:32:53 PM  
So they're going for gutting out the middle class even more than it has been already.

Brilliant strategy, that. /s
 
2017-09-26 03:33:29 PM  

Dafatone: Remember, everyone pays each tax bracket that their income falls into. If you're in a high bracket, you're paying the lower bracket rates on lower parts of your income.

So, raising the lowest bracket from 10% to 12% is raising everyone's taxes.


Not if decreases at the higher brackets more than offset the decrease at the lower bracket.
 
2017-09-26 03:33:41 PM  

odinsposse: pacified: how about we treat all income the same?

Capital gains, carried interesting, dividends, labor all taxed the same way, all have payroll tax applied to it, and there is no payroll cap.

That would cost rich people money. The whole point of our labyrinthine tax system is to do the opposite of that.


Rich folks don't owe this Nation a damn thing, apparently.
 
2017-09-26 03:35:10 PM  
Might as well update some things:

"Keep, ancient men, your stored wealth!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to pay taxes,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the work houses!"
 
2017-09-26 03:35:35 PM  

odinsposse: pacified: how about we treat all income the same?

Capital gains, carried interesting, dividends, labor all taxed the same way, all have payroll tax applied to it, and there is no payroll cap.

That would cost rich people money. The whole point of our labyrinthine tax system is to do the opposite of that.


George sums up class structure and the purpose media divisiveness
Youtube XdH38k0iUgI
 
2017-09-26 03:35:42 PM  

D135: shift the tax burden to the poor and middle class?  Welp, enjoy your recession and deficit.  At least we know how this bull market will end.


The bull fixes the cable?
 
2017-09-26 03:35:59 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: They want to lower the taxes on the rich and pretend to not squeeze the poor too bad so they've targeted the middle and upper middle classes.  Mortgage interest deductions, pre-tax 401k, and state & local tax deductions seem to be their plan for paying for the gift to those who do not need more money.

Bloomberg ran some numbers


img.fark.net

Reminds me of
img.fark.net
 
2017-09-26 03:36:19 PM  
Riiiiight... bend over, middle class, you're about to get MAGAed.
 
2017-09-26 03:38:40 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.


1) increase taxes on the poor from 10 to 12 percent. This is NOT a tax increase as it will be offset with deductions.

2) Eliminate the deduction, this is NOT a tax increase as the rate has been 12 percent.
 
2017-09-26 03:39:13 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Soup4Bonnie: Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.

Nadie...They're Republicans led by Trump.  Go with your gut.

Tacos for lunch. Got it.


Best decision anyone is going to make today, I guarantee it.
 
2017-09-26 03:39:38 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.


For the poors who aren't quite poor enough to currently pay zero in income taxes? Yeah, it would save them a few bucks. We can compare someone whose income from wages is $16,000 per year, for example:

Now: $16,000 - $6,350 (standard deduction) = $9,650 taxable income @10% tax rate = $965 tax.
Proposed: $16,000 - $13,700 (standard deduction) = $2,300 taxable income @12% tax rate = $276 tax.

Of course, for middle class folks who have a mortgage, state income taxes, medical expenses, and/or other deductions and therefore don't take the standard deduction, it'll be a small tax increase. For example, take someone making $60,000 a year with at least $13,700 in deductions (i.e., enough deductions to itemize). They'll pay an additional 2% of the first $10,000 of their income, with no offsetting increased deductions, so their tax bill will go up by $200. Which means that, shockingly enough, Comrade Combover may be lying (imagine that!) when he says this (as quoted in TFA):  "We will cut taxes tremendously for the middle class. Not just a little bit but tremendously," Trump said at a meeting in the White House with a bipartisan group of members on the House Ways and Means Committee.

Of course, for someone making $1 million a year, lowering the top tier from 39.6% to 35% would save them 4.6% that portion of their income over $416,000, giving them a tax cut of over $26,000. For a guy like Steve Mnuchin who makes--who knows, but some estimates say $20 million a year, so let's go with that--that would be a tax cut of close to $1 million per year.
 
2017-09-26 03:39:55 PM  
Nadie_AZ:The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.

Oh it's fantastic!  Provided you wait to feed your kids until you get your tax refund (if you get one at all) from your previous year's filling.
 
2017-09-26 03:40:00 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Here they go...we need tax cuts for the rich but we can't run higher deficits.

Tax reform will be harder than health care reform, Corker says

But unlike some ardent tax-cut, supply-side economic supporters, Corker said he wants to make sure that any tax reform plan doesn't add to America's long-term deficit, which he said is the biggest threat to America's future.

"We've got to move ahead and try to deal with the revenue piece," said Corker, who recently met with Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin about White House plans for tax reform. "At the end of the day, our nation is going to end up with trillion dollar-a-year deficits in a just few years and we already have $20 trillion in debt."


Ah yes, the Gilded Age Part 2: Electric Boogaloo.
 
2017-09-26 03:40:26 PM  

wejash: If they're doubling the standard deduction, they're also proposing to get rid of a lot of itemized deductions and the loss of the itemized will have a greater impact in the long run for a select group of middle class folks.

Presumably the most politically popular one in the GOP will be to eliminate deductions for state and local tax payments which will impact Blue states more than Red ones.


In toto:  That's a potentially large tax increase on every middle income bracket, a slight increase (net 0 at best) change for the poor, and a massive break for the rich.

Yep, that'll sell really well in rural PA.
 
2017-09-26 03:40:30 PM  
So they're eliminating the mortgage tax credit? Without that, it's likely I can't keep my house. And before you start with the "shouldn't have counted on it" arguments, I've owned 3 homes over 20 years, and it's been a thing the whole time, and was around long before I was a home owner.
 
2017-09-26 03:41:46 PM  
He should wear a shock collar that goes off every time he says "very, very" anything.

Farking third grade language target...
 
2017-09-26 03:42:11 PM  
Their scheme, according to the NYT:

Senate Republicans Embrace Plan for $1.5 Trillion Tax Cut

img.fark.net

Supply side tax cuts.  Trickle down, again.  oh ffs.

(I'm sort of tired of the Reconciliation maneuver being called arcane since it is the only thing they've tried to use since they got a majority.)
 
2017-09-26 03:46:30 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Supply side tax cuts.  Trickle down, again.  oh ffs.


You just don't understand growth.

You know, growth?

GROWTH!
 
2017-09-26 03:46:36 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.


The key word is "designed," as in "intelligently designed."  Basically, pray to god that the idiots who made a Two Trillion Dollar Mistake in their budget won't fark you over.  Then pray to god they won't take away your health care.  Then pray to god they won't put us in a war that will kill your children.  Then pray to god that we aren't past the point of no return on global warming and the coasts won't drown.  Then pray to god that we don't die in a nuclear holocaust.  Then pray to god that we don't have a race war.  Then pray to god that the world doesn't become a global fascist dictatorship and you are killed off as an undesirable.  Then pray to god that the end of Game of Thrones doesn't suck.  Then pray to god that I still have something to drink at home cause fark am i depressed and I picked a bad day to listen to STDWYTK's episode on the world ending.

TLDR: Don't be poor.
 
2017-09-26 03:47:01 PM  
Leopards and faces.
 
2017-09-26 03:49:14 PM  

ChimpMitten: Nadie_AZ: Details of the plan have started to emerge. Americans for Prosperity President Tim Phillips, who attended a meeting at the White House on Monday, said on Fox Business Network Tuesday that the plan is for the current seven individual tax rates to be collapsed into three.

The top individual rate is expected to be lowered from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, while the lowest rate is expected to be increased from 10 percent to 12 percent. However, the increase in the standard deduction is designed to prevent anyone in the 10 percent bracket from paying more taxes.

The bolded part is good, right? Yes? No? Help me understand. Wait, which 10%? This is confusing.

The key word is "designed," as in "intelligently designed."  Basically, pray to god that the idiots who made a Two Trillion Dollar Mistake in their budget won't fark you over.  Then pray to god they won't take away your health care.  Then pray to god they won't put us in a war that will kill your children.  Then pray to god that we aren't past the point of no return on global warming and the coasts won't drown.  Then pray to god that we don't die in a nuclear holocaust.  Then pray to god that we don't have a race war.  Then pray to god that the world doesn't become a global fascist dictatorship and you are killed off as an undesirable.  Then pray to god that the end of Game of Thrones doesn't suck.  Then pray to god that I still have something to drink at home cause fark am i depressed and I picked a bad day to listen to STDWYTK's episode on the world ending.

TLDR: Don't be poor.


I'm not worried about the coasts drowning.  If that happens it'll be the first mile marker on a never-ending highway.
 
2017-09-26 03:49:17 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Their scheme, according to the NYT:

Senate Republicans Embrace Plan for $1.5 Trillion Tax Cut

[img.fark.net image 596x922]

Supply side tax cuts.  Trickle down, again.  oh ffs.

(I'm sort of tired of the Reconciliation maneuver being called arcane since it is the only thing they've tried to use since they got a majority.)


What is the problem they are trying to fix?  Is there not enough capital floating around already?  It makes no sense.
 
2017-09-26 03:50:03 PM  

Dafatone: Remember, everyone pays each tax bracket that their income falls into. If you're in a high bracket, you're paying the lower bracket rates on lower parts of your income.

So, raising the lowest bracket from 10% to 12% is raising everyone's taxes.


A tiny increase on a tiny portion of that taxpayer's income, while the vast remainder of that individual's income is taxed at a substantially reduced rate. Calling that "raising everyone's taxes" is a lie, and a laughable one at that.
 
2017-09-26 03:50:03 PM  

RobotSpider: So they're eliminating the mortgage tax credit? Without that, it's likely I can't keep my house. And before you start with the "shouldn't have counted on it" arguments, I've owned 3 homes over 20 years, and it's been a thing the whole time, and was around long before I was a home owner.


Real estate and home builder lobbies don't like it, either.

They are striving to get rid of exemptions if you itemize your deductions but give you a bigger standard deduction.  It's bunk in a basket, of course, but that's what they're trying to peddle.
 
2017-09-26 03:50:47 PM  
I'm not spending another farming dime
 
2017-09-26 03:51:01 PM  
This is a Republican plan. Of course they are lying and will screw over everyone except the filthy rich.
 
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