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(Sports Illustrated)   We think this is about respecting the flag, or police brutality, or Colin Kaepernick, or patriotism, or white privilege, or our complicated and painful racial history. And it is about all of those issues...to other people. To Trump, it's about Trump   ( si.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Donald Trump, Trump, President Donald Trump, level Trump revels, Trump voters, Trump's agenda, Racism, WANT  
•       •       •

1731 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Sep 2017 at 7:49 PM (11 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-25 04:59:32 PM  
Absolutely. To Trump, all he sees is "those people aren't loyal to me, and they aren't obeying me." So, he threw a temper tantrum and demanded that their employers fire "those people." When the employers balked and instead supported their employees, Trump saw "those people, also, are disloyal and refuse my demands" and then threw a fit about the NFL as a whole.

It's always about Trump. The line in that article about "filling another syringe with adulation" is spot-on.
 
2017-09-25 05:01:11 PM  
I hope Americans keep this up until all he does, all day long, is throw temper tantrums and send increasingly deranged tweets until he finally pops a blood vessel in his brain and keels over the Resolute desk like a theater bag of cheese puffs, killed by his own monumental ego and his overwhelming addiction to feeding it.
 
2017-09-25 06:11:07 PM  
Liberals miss it. Trump voters miss it.


That was a very good article, but I disagree here on both points. I think libs have seen all along that he is a narcissist who craves attention first and foremost.

And I think his fanclub realizes it because they are a personality cult.
 
2017-09-25 06:17:58 PM  
Of course it is.  Because it always has been about him and fark the rest of us.  The pathetic thing is that his acolytes insist on sticking by him, against their best interests.
 
2017-09-25 07:55:27 PM  
Some of us knew he was an self-centered attention whore in the 1980s.  And the 1990s.  And the 2000s ...
 
2017-09-25 07:56:51 PM  
As I just read elsefark, Trump is metaphorically wrapping himself in the flag while burning the Constitution.

I really want someone to directly ask him if he remembers that he took an oath to defend the Constitution, and not the flag or the anthem. And further, does he realize that the Constitution grants a right to Free Speech, as well as a Free Press, two things he seems to routinely disparage.

Of course I really want them to be
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-25 07:57:34 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-25 07:59:57 PM  
Regular meat for the baying mob.
 
2017-09-25 08:00:35 PM  

skyotter: Some of us knew he was an self-centered attention whore in the 1980s.  And the 1990s.  And the 2000s ...


Yep.

Which is why I roll my eyes anytime I hear someone say with sincerity that Trump wants to make America great.
 
2017-09-25 08:01:03 PM  
Hard-hitting political journalism from Sports Illustrated. Huh. Who'd a thunk.
 
2017-09-25 08:01:09 PM  
Thanks for stating the utter and complete obvious, Mr. Sports Writing Guy. Liberals didn't miss this, Anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together didn't miss this.

This may be some great revelation to you. To the rest of us who have been paying attention it's just another day in Trump's America. Welcome to the party, pal.
 
2017-09-25 08:01:24 PM  
Helloooo! We have known all along that he's an irredeemable sack of bloated animal fat that once existed in a deep fryer at Carl's Jr.
 
2017-09-25 08:04:29 PM  
That is all true. But none of it is news.
 
2017-09-25 08:06:14 PM  
Do you think in 2020, liberals will still be nodding along to articles saying "Trump is self-centered" and calling it "Hard-hitting political journalism" like some peanut just did?
 
2017-09-25 08:07:23 PM  
And, of course, one of the Drewgs above in the comments is here to tell us that they're wrong.
 
2017-09-25 08:08:27 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2017-09-25 08:09:29 PM  
This is extremely concerning news. It has never once crossed my mind that Donald Trump had a narcissistic personality, and an overwhelming and socially damaging desire to promote his name for the public. This article has seriously made me reconsider my opinion of Donald Trump.
 
2017-09-25 08:10:37 PM  
People with narcissistic personality disorder are characterized by their persistent grandiosity, excessive need for admiration, and a disdain and lack of empathy for others. These individuals often display arrogance, a sense of superiority, and power-seeking behaviors.  Narcissistic personality disorder is different from having a strong sense of self-confidence; people with NPD typically value themselves over others to the extent that they disregard the feelings and wishes of others and expect to be treated as superior regardless of their actual status or achievements. In addition, people with NPD may exhibit fragile egos, an inability to tolerate criticism, and a tendency to belittle others in an attempt to validate their own superiority.
 
2017-09-25 08:11:20 PM  

FormlessOne: I hope Americans keep this up until all he does, all day long, is throw temper tantrums and send increasingly deranged tweets until he finally pops a blood vessel in his brain and keels over the Resolute desk like a theater bag of cheese puffs, killed by his own monumental ego and his overwhelming addiction to feeding it.


That would be a beautiful thing to watch.  Coincidentally, you reminded me of an old sci fi short story that is going to drive me nuts until I remember who wrote it.  The basic long and short of what I remember is those condemned to be executed would be brought into a stadium and the combimed hatred and disgust of those in attendance would be focused on the condemned and they would basically fry in their own skin.  Read it probably 20 years ago and it's all I can remember of it.  Couldn't have been more than 30 or 40 pages long...

Probably an old Harry Harrison, Fritz Leiber or something...
 
2017-09-25 08:12:03 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: People with narcissistic personality disorder are characterized by their persistent grandiosity, excessive need for admiration, and a disdain and lack of empathy for others. These individuals often display arrogance, a sense of superiority, and power-seeking behaviors.  Narcissistic personality disorder is different from having a strong sense of self-confidence; people with NPD typically value themselves over others to the extent that they disregard the feelings and wishes of others and expect to be treated as superior regardless of their actual status or achievements. In addition, people with NPD may exhibit fragile egos, an inability to tolerate criticism, and a tendency to belittle others in an attempt to validate their own superiority.


Yeah, but what does that have to do with Donald Trump?
 
2017-09-25 08:12:35 PM  

spamdog: Do you think in 2020, liberals will still be nodding along to articles saying "Trump is self-centered" and calling it "Hard-hitting political journalism" like some peanut just did?


Stating the obvious is "hard-hitting political journalism"?
 
2017-09-25 08:15:14 PM  
It's about black people and Trump.
 
2017-09-25 08:15:23 PM  

FormlessOne: So, he threw a temper tantrum and demanded that their employers fire "those people."


A trumper tantrum?

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-25 08:16:08 PM  

skyotter: Some of us knew he was an self-centered attention whore in the 1980s.  And the 1990s.  And the 2000s ...


This.

That's what I despise most about those that voted for him, we've always known who this man is. His election is a blemish on democratically elected leaders as a principle.

You can't be trusted to vote if you voted fpr Trump. You are a bigot, sexist, ignorant or greedy.

How this happened, I'll never understand. I doubt I'll ever recover to my previous level of faith in humanity.
 
2017-09-25 08:19:35 PM  

spamdog: Do you think in 2020, liberals will still be nodding along to articles saying "Trump is self-centered" and calling it "Hard-hitting political journalism" like some peanut just did?


Too subtle, I guess.
 
2017-09-25 08:20:09 PM  
Let him think it's about him. It makes it even funnier when he gets pwned.
 
2017-09-25 08:29:41 PM  
Did this get the obvious tag? It should have...

Sorry Mr Author, but NO SHEIT! There were 10s of millions of us saying exactly this 1-2 years ago, and tens more saying it now. Why the fark didn't more people listen, rather than "go with their feelings" or "give him a chance"? It really only would have taken a few, relatively speaking.
And no, I have no hopes of ever reaching the rabid fools that still support him. They are known to me as the Deplorables (now proven) or just "those hatey bastards lost in the darkness" for casual reference.
 
2017-09-25 08:33:07 PM  
So what do we do about it?
 
2017-09-25 08:35:04 PM  

inclemency: skyotter: Some of us knew he was an self-centered attention whore in the 1980s.  And the 1990s.  And the 2000s ...

This.

That's what I despise most about those that voted for him, we've always known who this man is. His election is a blemish on democratically elected leaders as a principle.

You can't be trusted to vote if you voted fpr Trump. You are a bigot, sexist, ignorant or greedy.

How this happened, I'll never understand. I doubt I'll ever recover to my previous level of faith in humanity.


Part of the reason it happened is because many of his voters figure the White race is superior regardless of the circumstances. And, as GOP leaders and GOP minions have made clear, they have no problem with the notion of civil war, given their white superiority.
 
2017-09-25 08:36:31 PM  
I suppose in this instance, my fellow citizens and I have failed all of you. Because the point of these protests (BLM, national anthem, burning the flag) is to bring attention to the generational battle going on right now for the soul of our country.

Even though I lost my Catholic faith somewhere in my adolescence, I do think there is an important morsel of truth in the teachings of the church: empathy. It's such a simple word and yet invokes moral duties and an impassioned sense of righting moral wrongs. 

It is in this regard, I am going to seek to bring those of you who cannot see from our perspective into our understanding of these current events. First, there is a racial disparity in this country. We need to admit that. Our war on poverty failed and we simply swept the detritus of Jim Crow under the rug, hoping it would just deal with itself. After all, we eventually got used to the Chinese, Japanese, Italians, and Irish. These groups passed the test and we eventually accepted into mainstream America. 

But 150 years of slavery and 100 years of institutionalized racism created a rather inconvenient second class of citizenry. When the Bronx was burning, we didn't think about the gut wrenching after effects of that generation. We sought to simply move on and let things sort themselves out.

I hate to say it, but it didn't work. We view an entire race of people as suspects simply because we've ghetto'd them off. We've ignored their plights. When they say they can't get off their feet, we ignore them. We ignore the decay of urban schooling with the rise of suburbanization. We ignore the disparity of arrests and sentences. Why does a black person have a 4x greater, and in some areas, 8x greater chance of being arrested with drugs even though drug use is equal among the races? Why is it that white defendants have a greater chance of securing plea deals than their black counterparts?

We NEED to have this discussion. In the open. Where facts can be admitted and solving the problem can begin. We have a whole generation of youth BEGGING, BEGGING us to discuss the racial injustices in this country. Where a 12-year old can be shot dead three seconds after police arrive on scene because he had a toy gun. Where an unarmed black couple gets shot 137 times for the crime of driving while high and a backfiring car? Where a law-abiding gun-carrying citizen can be gunned down in front of their child? Then they watch as these police are finally held accountable in a court of law and watch as each and every one of them is acquitted or given massively reduced sentences for what a civilian would have gotten. Where is the justice for them? 

So, back to the point, we finally have black celebrities listening to the plight of their fellow man and DRAGGING it into the national spotlight. And what do we do? We indict them for being unpatriotic. For hating America. For putting a bad face on the problem that nobody seems to be talking about ... at all. We ignore and ignore their pleas for help and then get mad at them when they finally say something loud enough for someone to hear. 

Empathy. Valuing yourself against what you have done for others. I'm going to stand with those who need protecting every day of the week. I'm going to have solidarity with the cause that everyone KNOWS we need to have, but finds excuse after excuse to not have it. 

This country needs to change. We need to address the wrongs and help find the solutions. Notice I said help. We needn't dictate nor should we ignore. We need to help our fellow man and right the injustices that need righting.

Now that we can establish that we're working off of the same moral compass, we can dissect these protests for what they are trying to say.

60 years ago, the Civil Rights movement started doing marches, sit-ins, and large-scale assemblies. They gripped a nation that was loathe to discuss the unsaid. Segregation, Jim Crow, lynchings, poll taxes. They highlighted the injustices this country was experiencing and sought to solve those problems. Rosa Parks, MLK, JFK, RFK, LBJ, and Nixon. Each of these people pushed forward with the righting of what each saw were moral failings of our society. We placed protections on a class of people to aid in their recovery. We desegregated the schools, the military. We passed civil rights legislation. We sought to fight a war on poverty, whom so many were black. Some of these programs worked. Some did not. But, we never decided to discuss it as an ongoing process. It was sort of yup, the 70s happened, Vietnam took a hold, and the conversation stopped. Cue the War on Drugs. Mandatory Minimums. Harsher drug laws and hasher penalties. They're criminals, so what, right? 

Nobody thought of the families they were devastating. Nobody thought about the communities that were being gutted. Nobody thought about the blow back of entire generations having served time in a prison. We battled the war on crime and the war on drugs on the black lower class. While Wall Street was having coke parties during the S&L crises, the black underclasses were being decimated by crack. 

So, every demonstration is trying a new tactic to get the collective attention of this country. Ferguson, BLM, Dallas, sports protests, burning of the flag, ignoring the flag, sitting, kneeling, these are all symptoms (both good and bad) of the disease embroiling underneath. 

So, I understand that all of you are upset and see this as an act of war against one of our country's most valued symbols. But you see this only in context of this particular event, not the greater conversation. We ignored BLM. We made fun of them, we started a counterprotesting group All Lives Matter. Someone took this as a start of a war and went violent ... shooting police in Dallas. On the other side, someone saw Anti-Fa as a group that should be driven into. They've tried getting you to listen in all sorts of manners that haven't effected the right conversation. So here, we have a group of professionals - the elite of their demographic - their heroes - who choose to do something not even offensive, but just barely enough to get your attention. How is doing something that is an act of reverence towards God in the LEAST bit offensive? They're just making a statement hoping finally THIS will get people talking about it. But no, we indict them as being un-American and unpatriotic. 

All they are asking for is a conversation. A renewed dialog that was interrupted by Vietnam. Why this has to be as difficult as we've made it is beyond me. Just know that I love this country more than anyone will ever know - but I love it like a child loves a parent. As we age, we see the fallibility of our parents. We acknowledge that they aren't always right, but neither are we. From gun control, to the war on drugs, to immigration policy, to taking care of each other through healthcare, and allowing gay people to marry and letting people who are transgendered use the restroom they feel comfortable with using. 

We can disagree on the course without disagreeing on the end goal. I only seek to help people understand that we're all in this together. So what if global warming isn't as man-caused as its reported? What's the harm of being slightly better custodians of our planet?

Liberalism isn't a disease. It's just a more empathetic view of this world: where what happened yesterday needn't happen today if the result is a better tomorrow. 

And with that, I'll end my soapboxing. Just know we agree on far more than we disagree.
 
2017-09-25 08:38:27 PM  
How much of a shiatheel do you have to be as a president to have Sports Illustrated smack you around my the short and curlies?
 
2017-09-25 08:45:12 PM  
Donnieboy truly does believe himself to be the center of the universe, doesn't he?

Solipsism in government.  Wotta concept.
 
2017-09-25 08:51:08 PM  

seadoo2006: Liberalism isn't a disease. It's just a more empathetic view of this world: where what happened yesterday needn't happen today if the result is a better tomorrow.


Liberalism is popular in northern countries because it is a realisation that if you don't look after each other you freeze or starve to death.
 
2017-09-25 09:06:08 PM  
Oh my stars. If only someone had spoken out a year ago. If only someone had stepped forward and said this man Trump is filled with the excrement of male bovines. Why oh why did not someone with a modicum of common sense speak up and say stop, this man cannot be president, he is far too immature and self-centered to be president.

Oh, why, why indeed?
 
2017-09-25 09:27:06 PM  

skyotter: Some of us knew he was an self-centered attention whore in the 1980s.  And the 1990s.  And the 2000s ...


As far as I can tell, the majority of Trump voters had never seen or heard him outside of The Apprentice or his Fox News appearances.
 
2017-09-25 09:30:25 PM  

seadoo2006: I suppose in this instance, my fellow citizens and I have failed all of you. Because the point of these protests (BLM, national anthem, burning the flag) is to bring attention to the generational battle going on right now for the soul of our country.

Even though I lost my Catholic faith somewhere in my adolescence, I do think there is an important morsel of truth in the teachings of the church: empathy. It's such a simple word and yet invokes moral duties and an impassioned sense of righting moral wrongs. 

It is in this regard, I am going to seek to bring those of you who cannot see from our perspective into our understanding of these current events. First, there is a racial disparity in this country. We need to admit that. Our war on poverty failed and we simply swept the detritus of Jim Crow under the rug, hoping it would just deal with itself. After all, we eventually got used to the Chinese, Japanese, Italians, and Irish. These groups passed the test and we eventually accepted into mainstream America. 

But 150 years of slavery and 100 years of institutionalized racism created a rather inconvenient second class of citizenry. When the Bronx was burning, we didn't think about the gut wrenching after effects of that generation. We sought to simply move on and let things sort themselves out.

I hate to say it, but it didn't work. We view an entire race of people as suspects simply because we've ghetto'd them off. We've ignored their plights. When they say they can't get off their feet, we ignore them. We ignore the decay of urban schooling with the rise of suburbanization. We ignore the disparity of arrests and sentences. Why does a black person have a 4x greater, and in some areas, 8x greater chance of being arrested with drugs even though drug use is equal among the races? Why is it that white defendants have a greater chance of securing plea deals than their black counterparts?

We NEED to have this discussion. In the open. Where facts can be admitted and solving the problem can begin. We have a whole generation of youth BEGGING, BEGGING us to discuss the racial injustices in this country. Where a 12-year old can be shot dead three seconds after police arrive on scene because he had a toy gun. Where an unarmed black couple gets shot 137 times for the crime of driving while high and a backfiring car? Where a law-abiding gun-carrying citizen can be gunned down in front of their child? Then they watch as these police are finally held accountable in a court of law and watch as each and every one of them is acquitted or given massively reduced sentences for what a civilian would have gotten. Where is the justice for them? 

So, back to the point, we finally have black celebrities listening to the plight of their fellow man and DRAGGING it into the national spotlight. And what do we do? We indict them for being unpatriotic. For hating America. For putting a bad face on the problem that nobody seems to be talking about ... at all. We ignore and ignore their pleas for help and then get mad at them when they finally say something loud enough for someone to hear. 

Empathy. Valuing yourself against what you have done for others. I'm going to stand with those who need protecting every day of the week. I'm going to have solidarity with the cause that everyone KNOWS we need to have, but finds excuse after excuse to not have it. 

This country needs to change. We need to address the wrongs and help find the solutions. Notice I said help. We needn't dictate nor should we ignore. We need to help our fellow man and right the injustices that need righting.

Now that we can establish that we're working off of the same moral compass, we can dissect these protests for what they are trying to say.

60 years ago, the Civil Rights movement started doing marches, sit-ins, and large-scale assemblies. They gripped a nation that was loathe to discuss the unsaid. Segregation, Jim Crow, lynchings, poll taxes. They highlighted the injustices this country was experiencing and sought to solve those problems. Rosa Parks, MLK, JFK, RFK, LBJ, and Nixon. Each of these people pushed forward with the righting of what each saw were moral failings of our society. We placed protections on a class of people to aid in their recovery. We desegregated the schools, the military. We passed civil rights legislation. We sought to fight a war on poverty, whom so many were black. Some of these programs worked. Some did not. But, we never decided to discuss it as an ongoing process. It was sort of yup, the 70s happened, Vietnam took a hold, and the conversation stopped. Cue the War on Drugs. Mandatory Minimums. Harsher drug laws and hasher penalties. They're criminals, so what, right? 

Nobody thought of the families they were devastating. Nobody thought about the communities that were being gutted. Nobody thought about the blow back of entire generations having served time in a prison. We battled the war on crime and the war on drugs on the black lower class. While Wall Street was having coke parties during the S&L crises, the black underclasses were being decimated by crack. 

So, every demonstration is trying a new tactic to get the collective attention of this country. Ferguson, BLM, Dallas, sports protests, burning of the flag, ignoring the flag, sitting, kneeling, these are all symptoms (both good and bad) of the disease embroiling underneath. 

So, I understand that all of you are upset and see this as an act of war against one of our country's most valued symbols. But you see this only in context of this particular event, not the greater conversation. We ignored BLM. We made fun of them, we started a counterprotesting group All Lives Matter. Someone took this as a start of a war and went violent ... shooting police in Dallas. On the other side, someone saw Anti-Fa as a group that should be driven into. They've tried getting you to listen in all sorts of manners that haven't effected the right conversation. So here, we have a group of professionals - the elite of their demographic - their heroes - who choose to do something not even offensive, but just barely enough to get your attention. How is doing something that is an act of reverence towards God in the LEAST bit offensive? They're just making a statement hoping finally THIS will get people talking about it. But no, we indict them as being un-American and unpatriotic. 

All they are asking for is a conversation. A renewed dialog that was interrupted by Vietnam. Why this has to be as difficult as we've made it is beyond me. Just know that I love this country more than anyone will ever know - but I love it like a child loves a parent. As we age, we see the fallibility of our parents. We acknowledge that they aren't always right, but neither are we. From gun control, to the war on drugs, to immigration policy, to taking care of each other through healthcare, and allowing gay people to marry and letting people who are transgendered use the restroom they feel comfortable with using. 

We can disagree on the course without disagreeing on the end goal. I only seek to help people understand that we're all in this together. So what if global warming isn't as man-caused as its reported? What's the harm of being slightly better custodians of our planet?

Liberalism isn't a disease. It's just a more empathetic view of this world: where what happened yesterday needn't happen today if the result is a better tomorrow. 

And with that, I'll end my soapboxing. Just know we agree on far more than we disagree.


I'm so stealing* this and plastering my Facebook wall with it.

*with credit
 
2017-09-25 09:42:00 PM  
If the article told me anything, and it's a premise I agree with, it's that Trump can't stand being called a failure. But it describes him so well. As a businessman, a president and a human being. So from now on, when I type Trump I will add failure. And hopefully others will too. And maybe, in the not too distant future, when a person Googles "failure" the first thing they'll see is Donald J. Trump's name beside the word.
 
2017-09-25 09:47:07 PM  
All the things listed in the headline are serious and important issues that need to be addressed. and while I certainly agree that the NFL players have the right to take whatever stand they feel they need to, I do not think that kneeling before the pledge is having the effect that they want.  It is only throwing red meat to the alt right, and giving them an issue to rally around.  This is not the way to move forward.

I understand that I will never understand the frustrations or discrimination that blacks feel as they navigate everyday life, and I understand they need to feel like they are taking a stand, and saying that they have had enough, but if the goal is to actually resolve issues of racial discrimination, it is not going to have the desired effect, and I will tell you why.

I live in the south, among lots of poor white people.  While I do not share their political leaning, I do exist in their world, and I hear and understand their reasoning, even when I don't agree with it.  They see the refusing to stand for the pledge, not as black players fighting for equal rights, but as their whole entire country being blamed for the actions of a few bad people.  The irony is not lost on me, and I have pointed out that this is probably a similar feeling, though on a smaller scale, to how African Americans must be made to feel for when some whites try to shift all of their problems onto the black community, and I do occasionally get through to people, but far too often they don't see it that way.  What they see is their flag and their own community being disrespected, and it causes them to dig in their heals more.  Some of them, the worst of them, the ones who are egged on by the orange baboon in the White House even use it as an excuse to hate all the more.

There is a solution, but it is not an easy one.  The solution is to go out and find someone different from yourself, someone who doesn't think the way you do, and talk to them.  Build a relationship of trust, that crosses over your differences, and then reach out and find out what their concerns are, and help them resolve those concerns.  It's not a grand gesture, hardly anyone will notice, but you will make a difference, one person at a time.  I know, because I used to be on the other side.  There was a time in my life when I would have been forwarding Donald Trump's tweets, instead of being insulted by them. 

This isn't to say that any of the NFL players are bad players, or that they are completely wrong, or that I might not be wrong, and that what they are doing will work to change peoples hearts and minds.  It's just that at the end of the day, you end conflict by deescalating conflict, by earning trust, not by sewing division.  At the end of the day, kneeling at a football game is probably not the greatest sin in the world, but you don't stop insult with an insult contest, you stop it by letting the other person know that civilization has no room for his rudeness and that until he learns to comply with common human decency, well, we are just not going to play with him.

That is not to say that rude comments and insults don't have their place.  This is fark after all.
 
2017-09-25 09:51:13 PM  

winedrinkingman: All the things listed in the headline are serious and important issues that need to be addressed. and while I certainly agree that the NFL players have the right to take whatever stand they feel they need to, I do not think that kneeling before the pledge is having the effect that they want.  It is only throwing red meat to the alt right, and giving them an issue to rally around.  This is not the way to move forward.

I understand that I will never understand the frustrations or discrimination that blacks feel as they navigate everyday life, and I understand they need to feel like they are taking a stand, and saying that they have had enough, but if the goal is to actually resolve issues of racial discrimination, it is not going to have the desired effect, and I will tell you why.

I live in the south, among lots of poor white people.  While I do not share their political leaning, I do exist in their world, and I hear and understand their reasoning, even when I don't agree with it.  They see the refusing to stand for the pledge, not as black players fighting for equal rights, but as their whole entire country being blamed for the actions of a few bad people.  The irony is not lost on me, and I have pointed out that this is probably a similar feeling, though on a smaller scale, to how African Americans must be made to feel for when some whites try to shift all of their problems onto the black community, and I do occasionally get through to people, but far too often they don't see it that way.  What they see is their flag and their own community being disrespected, and it causes them to dig in their heals more.  Some of them, the worst of them, the ones who are egged on by the orange baboon in the White House even use it as an excuse to hate all the more.

There is a solution, but it is not an easy one.  The solution is to go out and find someone different from yourself, someone who doesn't think the way you do, and talk to them.  Build a relationship of trust, that c ...


Yeah, you know what? I've tried that. And it takes a long time, and it usually doesn't work. People who want to hate and blame others for their own shortcomings will listen, and nod, and then go "Yeah, BUT..."

Insults and baseball bats are all that is left.
 
2017-09-25 09:52:41 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Yeah, you know what? I've tried that. And it takes a long time, and it usually doesn't work. People who want to hate and blame others for their own shortcomings will listen, and nod, and then go "Yeah, BUT..."

Insults and baseball bats are all that is left.


Nah maybe you suck at persuasion
 
2017-09-25 09:57:10 PM  

Weatherkiss: This is extremely concerning news. It has never once crossed my mind that Donald Trump had a narcissistic personality, and an overwhelming and socially damaging desire to promote his name for the public. This article has seriously made me reconsider my opinion of Donald Trump.


Should we get you a fence or something?
 
2017-09-25 10:20:57 PM  
Trump is a racist and a narcissist, so a NARCIRACIST?
 
2017-09-25 10:38:10 PM  

Avery614: FormlessOne: I hope Americans keep this up until all he does, all day long, is throw temper tantrums and send increasingly deranged tweets until he finally pops a blood vessel in his brain and keels over the Resolute desk like a theater bag of cheese puffs, killed by his own monumental ego and his overwhelming addiction to feeding it.

That would be a beautiful thing to watch.  Coincidentally, you reminded me of an old sci fi short story that is going to drive me nuts until I remember who wrote it.  The basic long and short of what I remember is those condemned to be executed would be brought into a stadium and the combimed hatred and disgust of those in attendance would be focused on the condemned and they would basically fry in their own skin.  Read it probably 20 years ago and it's all I can remember of it.  Couldn't have been more than 30 or 40 pages long...

Probably an old Harry Harrison, Fritz Leiber or something...


"The Public Hating," by Steve Allen. Poor Professer Ketteridge.
 
2017-09-25 10:40:11 PM  

Mukster: Trump is a racist and a narcissist, so a NARCIRACIST?


A racississt.
 
2017-09-25 10:40:56 PM  
We'll it kind of is. Not really Trump specifically, but his supporters and the farking cancer on the world that is the Republican party.
 
2017-09-25 11:14:35 PM  
Something has eluded me. If I wind up worrying about what Trump thinks, just shoot me. please.
Seriously, he's an idiot. If something in his calculation involves his alignment or disalignment with my opinion, i'm forced to think it's a distorted and misrepresentatiative perception of my own beliefs and values. He has no reservoir of authenticity.
 
2017-09-25 11:35:11 PM  

seadoo2006: I suppose in this instance, my fellow citizens and I have failed all of you. Because the point of these protests (BLM, national anthem, burning the flag) is to bring attention to the generational battle going on right now for the soul of our country.

Even though I lost my Catholic faith somewhere in my adolescence, I do think there is an important morsel of truth in the teachings of the church: empathy. It's such a simple word and yet invokes moral duties and an impassioned sense of righting moral wrongs. 

It is in this regard, I am going to seek to bring those of you who cannot see from our perspective into our understanding of these current events. First, there is a racial disparity in this country. We need to admit that. Our war on poverty failed and we simply swept the detritus of Jim Crow under the rug, hoping it would just deal with itself. After all, we eventually got used to the Chinese, Japanese, Italians, and Irish. These groups passed the test and we eventually accepted into mainstream America. 

But 150 years of slavery and 100 years of institutionalized racism created a rather inconvenient second class of citizenry. When the Bronx was burning, we didn't think about the gut wrenching after effects of that generation. We sought to simply move on and let things sort themselves out.

I hate to say it, but it didn't work. We view an entire race of people as suspects simply because we've ghetto'd them off. We've ignored their plights. When they say they can't get off their feet, we ignore them. We ignore the decay of urban schooling with the rise of suburbanization. We ignore the disparity of arrests and sentences. Why does a black person have a 4x greater, and in some areas, 8x greater chance of being arrested with drugs even though drug use is equal among the races? Why is it that white defendants have a greater chance of securing plea deals than their black counterparts?

We NEED to have this discussion. In the open. Where facts can be admitted and solving the problem can begin. We have a whole generation of youth BEGGING, BEGGING us to discuss the racial injustices in this country. Where a 12-year old can be shot dead three seconds after police arrive on scene because he had a toy gun. Where an unarmed black couple gets shot 137 times for the crime of driving while high and a backfiring car? Where a law-abiding gun-carrying citizen can be gunned down in front of their child? Then they watch as these police are finally held accountable in a court of law and watch as each and every one of them is acquitted or given massively reduced sentences for what a civilian would have gotten. Where is the justice for them? 

So, back to the point, we finally have black celebrities listening to the plight of their fellow man and DRAGGING it into the national spotlight. And what do we do? We indict them for being unpatriotic. For hating America. For putting a bad face on the problem that nobody seems to be talking about ... at all. We ignore and ignore their pleas for help and then get mad at them when they finally say something loud enough for someone to hear. 

Empathy. Valuing yourself against what you have done for others. I'm going to stand with those who need protecting every day of the week. I'm going to have solidarity with the cause that everyone KNOWS we need to have, but finds excuse after excuse to not have it. 

This country needs to change. We need to address the wrongs and help find the solutions. Notice I said help. We needn't dictate nor should we ignore. We need to help our fellow man and right the injustices that need righting.

Now that we can establish that we're working off of the same moral compass, we can dissect these protests for what they are trying to say.

60 years ago, the Civil Rights movement started doing marches, sit-ins, and large-scale assemblies. They gripped a nation that was loathe to discuss the unsaid. Segregation, Jim Crow, lynchings, poll taxes. They highlighted the injustices this country was experiencing and sought to solve those problems. Rosa Parks, MLK, JFK, RFK, LBJ, and Nixon. Each of these people pushed forward with the righting of what each saw were moral failings of our society. We placed protections on a class of people to aid in their recovery. We desegregated the schools, the military. We passed civil rights legislation. We sought to fight a war on poverty, whom so many were black. Some of these programs worked. Some did not. But, we never decided to discuss it as an ongoing process. It was sort of yup, the 70s happened, Vietnam took a hold, and the conversation stopped. Cue the War on Drugs. Mandatory Minimums. Harsher drug laws and hasher penalties. They're criminals, so what, right? 

Nobody thought of the families they were devastating. Nobody thought about the communities that were being gutted. Nobody thought about the blow back of entire generations having served time in a prison. We battled the war on crime and the war on drugs on the black lower class. While Wall Street was having coke parties during the S&L crises, the black underclasses were being decimated by crack. 

So, every demonstration is trying a new tactic to get the collective attention of this country. Ferguson, BLM, Dallas, sports protests, burning of the flag, ignoring the flag, sitting, kneeling, these are all symptoms (both good and bad) of the disease embroiling underneath. 

So, I understand that all of you are upset and see this as an act of war against one of our country's most valued symbols. But you see this only in context of this particular event, not the greater conversation. We ignored BLM. We made fun of them, we started a counterprotesting group All Lives Matter. Someone took this as a start of a war and went violent ... shooting police in Dallas. On the other side, someone saw Anti-Fa as a group that should be driven into. They've tried getting you to listen in all sorts of manners that haven't effected the right conversation. So here, we have a group of professionals - the elite of their demographic - their heroes - who choose to do something not even offensive, but just barely enough to get your attention. How is doing something that is an act of reverence towards God in the LEAST bit offensive? They're just making a statement hoping finally THIS will get people talking about it. But no, we indict them as being un-American and unpatriotic. 

All they are asking for is a conversation. A renewed dialog that was interrupted by Vietnam. Why this has to be as difficult as we've made it is beyond me. Just know that I love this country more than anyone will ever know - but I love it like a child loves a parent. As we age, we see the fallibility of our parents. We acknowledge that they aren't always right, but neither are we. From gun control, to the war on drugs, to immigration policy, to taking care of each other through healthcare, and allowing gay people to marry and letting people who are transgendered use the restroom they feel comfortable with using. 

We can disagree on the course without disagreeing on the end goal. I only seek to help people understand that we're all in this together. So what if global warming isn't as man-caused as its reported? What's the harm of being slightly better custodians of our planet?

Liberalism isn't a disease. It's just a more empathetic view of this world: where what happened yesterday needn't happen today if the result is a better tomorrow. 

And with that, I'll end my soapboxing. Just know we agree on far more than we disagree.


As a black man I agree wholeheartedly with what you said just like I defend the rights of all others. You just gave me hope for humanity.
 
2017-09-25 11:39:27 PM  

winedrinkingman: All the things listed in the headline are serious and important issues that need to be addressed. and while I certainly agree that the NFL players have the right to take whatever stand they feel they need to, I do not think that kneeling before the pledge is having the effect that they want.  It is only throwing red meat to the alt right, and giving them an issue to rally around.  This is not the way to move forward.

I understand that I will never understand the frustrations or discrimination that blacks feel as they navigate everyday life, and I understand they need to feel like they are taking a stand, and saying that they have had enough, but if the goal is to actually resolve issues of racial discrimination, it is not going to have the desired effect, and I will tell you why.

I live in the south, among lots of poor white people.  While I do not share their political leaning, I do exist in their world, and I hear and understand their reasoning, even when I don't agree with it.  They see the refusing to stand for the pledge, not as black players fighting for equal rights, but as their whole entire country being blamed for the actions of a few bad people.  The irony is not lost on me, and I have pointed out that this is probably a similar feeling, though on a smaller scale, to how African Americans must be made to feel for when some whites try to shift all of their problems onto the black community, and I do occasionally get through to people, but far too often they don't see it that way.  What they see is their flag and their own community being disrespected, and it causes them to dig in their heals more.  Some of them, the worst of them, the ones who are egged on by the orange baboon in the White House even use it as an excuse to hate all the more.

There is a solution, but it is not an easy one.  The solution is to go out and find someone different from yourself, someone who doesn't think the way you do, and talk to them.  Build a relationship of trust, that crosses over your differences, and then reach out and find out what their concerns are, and help them resolve those concerns.  It's not a grand gesture, hardly anyone will notice, but you will make a difference, one person at a time.  I know, because I used to be on the other side.  There was a time in my life when I would have been forwarding Donald Trump's tweets, instead of being insulted by them. 

This isn't to say that any of the NFL players are bad players, or that they are completely wrong, or that I might not be wrong, and that what they are doing will work to change peoples hearts and minds.  It's just that at the end of the day, you end conflict by deescalating conflict, by earning trust, not by sewing division.  At the end of the day, kneeling at a football game is probably not the greatest sin in the world, but you don't stop insult with an insult contest, you stop it by letting the other person know that civilization has no room for his rudeness and that until he learns to comply with common human decency, well, we are just not going to play with him.

That is not to say that rude comments and insults don't have their place.  This is fark after all.


I changed a poor white man's opinion once. I find that the economic divide seems more real than the racial one. The problem is that people just assume us black people are poor.
 
2017-09-25 11:50:15 PM  

spamdog: Do you think in 2020, liberals will still be nodding along to articles saying "Trump is self-centered" and calling it "Hard-hitting political journalism" like some peanut just did?


Truth hurts, doesn't it?
 
2017-09-26 07:15:45 AM  

RadiomanATL: Thanks for stating the utter and complete obvious, Mr. Sports Writing Guy. Liberals didn't miss this, Anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together didn't miss this.

This may be some great revelation to you. To the rest of us who have been paying attention it's just another day in Trump's America. Welcome to the party, pal.


Liberals saw it years ago.Trumpanzees saw it too,but they think it's farking awesome.  The only ones who did not are effectively dead from the neck up, and haven't been paying attention to anything for the last thirty years or so.
 
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