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(NFL)   Because the officials hate the Seahawks, Richard Sherman draws three flags on one play vs. Titans   ( nfl.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, National Football League, Seattle Seahawks cornerback, American football, Titans, Titans sideline, Tennessee Titans, unnecessary roughness flag, penalty hat trick  
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1640 clicks; posted to Sports » on 24 Sep 2017 at 9:48 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-24 07:11:11 PM  
What a farking baby.

/Seahawks fan
 
2017-09-24 07:41:01 PM  
He should have been tossed out of the game
 
2017-09-24 07:49:59 PM  
Seeing that replay, that is not DPI by definition.  Likewise, that is not holding on the return after the interception.  Seeing as how he made a stink with the NFL earlier in the week, this kind of behavior is expected from the refs.
 
2017-09-24 09:51:50 PM  
So he had 3 penalties but only one universally recognized?
 
2017-09-24 10:01:56 PM  
"Why don't you watch the NFL any more?"

"Because the rules are made up and the points still somehow matter."

/see this and the Lions/Falcons ending
 
2017-09-24 10:12:58 PM  
The officials must be coaching the offensive line too. And the run defense.

It's fine though, Seattle is going to be way too cool for football real soon, just coincidently around the time the Seahawks start piling up 7-9 seasons.
 
2017-09-24 10:21:10 PM  
The Legion of Boo...hoo hoo
 
2017-09-24 10:44:13 PM  
Okay, so the PI is questionable, the holding absolutely not, but the unsportsmanlike absolutely yes because you don't get into an official's face like that.

But if the PI and/or hold didn't happen, it's unlikely that Sherman would have taken the unsport in the first place, so I would have been happy with no PI, a hold after the interception, and let's pretend the unsport didn't happen. One live ball after the turnover, no dead ball, Seahawks keep the pick and you march them back 10 yards from the point of infraction.

Instead they called a 50/50 DPI (spot foul, ~20 yards) and add the dead ball unsport (15 yards), so Sherman just cost his defense nearly half the entire farking field on one play in what was at the time a very tight knit defensive battle. Of course the Titans scored on that penalty-assisted drive. And yes, they won the game by one score. Not that it had any outcome on the game or anything.

Just saying.
 
2017-09-24 10:45:28 PM  
Maybe they just hate Richard...
 
2017-09-24 10:47:40 PM  
He took his helmet off to argue the first 2 calls, then chased the ref down afterwards still vehemently arguing with his helmet off. I was surprised he didn't get tossed. No matter the right or wrong of the first 2 calls on that play, his reaction should have seen him ejected.
 
2017-09-24 10:47:40 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: So he had 3 penalties but only one universally recognized?


Actually 2, pass interference and unsportsmanlike conduct. But great use of the meme.
 
2017-09-24 10:48:49 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: So he had 3 penalties but only one universally recognized?


A team can only accept one live ball foul per down.

Sherman took 2 live ball fouls (A DPI before the interception and a hold after the interception) and one dead ball foul (unsportsmanlike). Offense has a choice which live ball foul they'd like to accept and of course they chose the DPI because that means they get the ball back. The dead ball unsport is not contingent on anything that happened during live play and is applied after the administration of the live ball foul.
 
2017-09-24 10:56:41 PM  

Analgesic: He took his helmet off to argue the first 2 calls, then chased the ref down afterwards still vehemently arguing with his helmet off. I was surprised he didn't get tossed. No matter the right or wrong of the first 2 calls on that play, his reaction should have seen him ejected.


Yeah, they should've tossed him after he kept it up.

And watching it again, I think the first foul should've been holding instead of PI.
 
2017-09-24 11:09:33 PM  

Torgo_of_Manos: He should have been tossed out of the game


Correct
 
2017-09-24 11:18:36 PM  
Fark that guy. He whines about everything. I'm sure he whined about this too.
 
2017-09-24 11:36:41 PM  

Ishkur: Okay, so the PI is questionable, the holding absolutely not, but the unsportsmanlike absolutely yes because you don't get into an official's face like that.


Really? I was coming here to say the opposite. I'm not sure why that was holding - he started pushing the guy back immediately, and it looked like he just kept doing that.
 
2017-09-24 11:47:56 PM  

SkittlesAreYum: Ishkur: Okay, so the PI is questionable, the holding absolutely not, but the unsportsmanlike absolutely yes because you don't get into an official's face like that.

Really? I was coming here to say the opposite. I'm not sure why that was holding - he started pushing the guy back immediately, and it looked like he just kept doing that.


You're not reading it correctly:

DPI - 50/50 call (ie: half the officials will call it half the time)
Hold - 0% call (I don't understand why any official would call this)
Unsport - 100% call (every official will call this every time. I'm surprised Sherman wasn't disqualified for continuing his tirade after the unsport)

Now, if you want to say the Hold is stupid, flimsy and non-existent, I agree, but that leaves you with the DPI and the unsport. Frankly, I can't see the DPI as a very worthy call considering the ball wasn't thrown that way anyway, but if one of the live ball fouls must be enforced, of course take the phantom Hold, if only because it lets the Seahawks keep the ball.
 
2017-09-24 11:50:26 PM  
Seachicken singing in the dead of night
Take these butthurt wings and learn to fly
All you life
You were always waiting for this
Butthurt to arrive
Seaaaaa
Chickennnnnn
Flyyyyyyy
 
2017-09-25 12:21:25 AM  

IAmRight: "Why don't you watch the NFL any more?"

"Because the rules are made up and the points still somehow matter."

/see this and the Lions/Falcons ending


Wtf was that about?

Let's rule a play a touchdown, review our own call, overturn it, then run 10 seconds off to punish the lions for our bad call and end the game

ESPN can't even explain it without pointing out the lions got screwed with their pants on
 
2017-09-25 12:34:15 AM  

smerfnablin: IAmRight: "Why don't you watch the NFL any more?"

"Because the rules are made up and the points still somehow matter."

/see this and the Lions/Falcons ending

Wtf was that about?

Let's rule a play a touchdown, review our own call, overturn it, then run 10 seconds off to punish the lions for our bad call and end the game

ESPN can't even explain it without pointing out the lions got screwed with their pants on


The Lions had no timeouts, and the clock was stopped because of the incorrect call (yes, he was down at the 1/2). Had the play not been ruled a touchdown, Tate would have been marked down, with the clock running. With under, what, a minute left in the game, the 10-second runoff rule applies in that situation, just as it would if an offensive player had committed certain penalties.
 
2017-09-25 12:43:37 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: So he had 3 penalties but only one universally recognized?


You messed up the joke, but it's the one I came to make.

Should have been:

"He had three penalties, but only one was agreed on unanimously. "

You can only accept one of the penalties.
 
2017-09-25 12:45:22 AM  

Ishkur: Peter von Nostrand: So he had 3 penalties but only one universally recognized?

A team can only accept one live ball foul per down.

Sherman took 2 live ball fouls (A DPI before the interception and a hold after the interception) and one dead ball foul (unsportsmanlike). Offense has a choice which live ball foul they'd like to accept and of course they chose the DPI because that means they get the ball back. The dead ball unsport is not contingent on anything that happened during live play and is applied after the administration of the live ball foul.


Oh, I didn't know there was the followup foul.

So maybe the joke was:

There were three fouls, but only one was unanimously agreed on to be ignored.
 
2017-09-25 12:49:45 AM  

puffy999: smerfnablin: IAmRight: "Why don't you watch the NFL any more?"

"Because the rules are made up and the points still somehow matter."

/see this and the Lions/Falcons ending

Wtf was that about?

Let's rule a play a touchdown, review our own call, overturn it, then run 10 seconds off to punish the lions for our bad call and end the game

ESPN can't even explain it without pointing out the lions got screwed with their pants on

The Lions had no timeouts, and the clock was stopped because of the incorrect call (yes, he was down at the 1/2). Had the play not been ruled a touchdown, Tate would have been marked down, with the clock running. With under, what, a minute left in the game, the 10-second runoff rule applies in that situation, just as it would if an offensive player had committed certain penalties.


Tate wasn't down where they marked the ball. Even if he was, the clock was at 11 seconds. Wish I was making that up. The Lions got screwed.
 
2017-09-25 01:07:44 AM  

jaylectricity: Ishkur: Peter von Nostrand: So he had 3 penalties but only one universally recognized?

A team can only accept one live ball foul per down.

Sherman took 2 live ball fouls (A DPI before the interception and a hold after the interception) and one dead ball foul (unsportsmanlike). Offense has a choice which live ball foul they'd like to accept and of course they chose the DPI because that means they get the ball back. The dead ball unsport is not contingent on anything that happened during live play and is applied after the administration of the live ball foul.

Oh, I didn't know there was the followup foul.

So maybe the joke was:

There were three fouls, but only one was unanimously agreed on to be ignored.


What was weird was the near-riot caused when Dick hit Marcus Mariota OOB. After that flag, everyone started jawing and several subsequent flags were thrown, which offset THAT Sherman flag.
 
2017-09-25 01:16:00 AM  
Haha, Dick.
 
2017-09-25 01:26:42 AM  
Good gracious, he kept jawing at the SJ *after* the 3 penalties were announced and didn't get disqualified?  Ridiculous.
 
2017-09-25 01:37:58 AM  
I thought he would be ejected after he kept following the ref after the initial call. He's lucky he wasn't.

/maybe the refs don't hate the Hawks as much as people claim.
//STFU Sherman and pick some balls.
///I know he's reading this on the flight back home.
 
2017-09-25 01:39:04 AM  

IAmRight: "Because the rules are made up and the points still somehow matter."


Only if you're a bookie.  The legal book makers are the ones that absolutely demand a "clean" game.  The NFL just wants to keep raking in those wonderful socialist (revenue sharing) mega-dollars.
 
2017-09-25 03:02:39 AM  
Richard the cryin' hearted
 
2017-09-25 03:29:32 AM  

jaylectricity: Haha, Dick.


That is literally what I call him on Fark anymore. Usually it's Dick Sherman, but Dick for short.
 
2017-09-25 03:33:20 AM  
I will say though, for those saying "he should have been ejected," how often is a player ejected for chirping at a ref within a short window? Be honest.

The NBA is the sport which would have tossed him, without question. The NFL? They've let that go before.
 
2017-09-25 03:56:26 AM  

puffy999: What was weird was the near-riot caused when Dick hit Marcus Mariota OOB. After that flag, everyone started jawing and several subsequent flags were thrown, which offset THAT Sherman flag.


Nothing weird about it. A double/multiple foul replays the down. Personal fouls are not disqualifications -- you could conceivably commit as many as you want.

Only unsportsmanlikes contribute to disqualifications and you must commit two of them. They're like yellow cards in soccer.
 
2017-09-25 03:57:54 AM  

puffy999: I will say though, for those saying "he should have been ejected," how often is a player ejected for chirping at a ref within a short window? Be honest.


Just once? Never, because it requires two unsportsmanlikes to be disqualified. He only took one.
 
2017-09-25 04:02:02 AM  

Ishkur: A double/multiple foul replays the down.


I honestly think there is a difference between a "late hit" and a fight that happens five to ten seconds after a play is over. But that's just me.

Ishkur: Just once? Never, because it requires two unsportsmanlikes to be disqualified. He only took one.


The point was, people thought he deserved a second flag because he kept jawing WELL after the first flag.

Like I said, in the NBA (or in baseball, but they don't have a "two strikes" rule), he'd have been tossed easily.
 
2017-09-25 04:06:21 AM  

Ishkur: Personal fouls are not disqualifications -- you could conceivably commit as many as you want.


I know I already covered this, but again, that wasn't the issue, it was his continued jawing at the ref.

My issue with the late hit was that I'd just assumed a fight several seconds after a whistle was akin to a "dead ball" foul. I thought it should have been 15 yards, and all of the crap afterward should have resulted in offsetting penalties.
 
2017-09-25 04:31:33 AM  

puffy999: I honestly think there is a difference between a "late hit" and a fight that happens five to ten seconds after a play is over. But that's just me.


I'm sure you do, but you are not the rules. All dead ball fouls are treated equally, regardless of the manner in which they occurred.

puffy999: The point was, people thought he deserved a second flag because he kept jawing WELL after the first flag.


And I agree, however a second unsport on the same play is very VERY rare. You have to do something pretty disrespectful (pushing or punching a ref would do it), but you'll never get a second foul on the same play for the same action.

I'm sure the refs had a long discussion with the officials association observer about this incident and whether it should have been escalated.

puffy999: My issue with the late hit was that I'd just assumed a fight several seconds after a whistle was akin to a "dead ball" foul. I thought it should have been 15 yards, and all of the crap afterward should have resulted in offsetting penalties.


The late hit and everything after (the fight, etc.) are all dead ball fouls. The play was dead the moment the QB stepped out of bounds.
 
2017-09-25 05:06:19 AM  

Ishkur: All dead ball fouls are treated equally, regardless of the manner in which they occurred.


The whistle had not blown when Sherman'shiat took place. He'd literally just stepped out. How is that a "dead ball" foul?

Note: the NFL rulebook is complex, and that may not be considered "continuation" or some such. I want YOU to explain how Sherman'shiat, as it took place, was a "dead ball" foul. "He was ruled out of bounds" is not a reason, per the rulebook.

Ishkur: And I agree, however a second unsport on the same play is very VERY rare. You have to do something pretty disrespectful (pushing or punching a ref would do it), but you'll never get a second foul on the same play for the same action.


I said that. More than once. But, if he'd been tossed, I'd have not disagreed, given how he continued jawing WELL after the flag, with his helmet off. Pulling your helmet off in an NFL game, right now, puts the refs in the mode where they don't want to take anyone's shiat. He REALLY came close there.

Ishkur: The play was dead the moment the QB stepped out of bounds.


Again, that hit took place before any whistle, as he stepped out, at the "end" of the play.

IF that is the rule (go ahead, again, explain how a play BEFORE A WHISTLE is a "dead ball" foul), hell, I'll be damned, but I will flat-out say that the rule NEEDS to be changed.

Again, a hit at the end of a play is a different animal than several flags thrown several seconds after a whistle has been blown. If that is the NFL rule, it needs to change.
 
2017-09-25 05:09:18 AM  

puffy999: Sherman'shiat


Filter FTW
 
2017-09-25 05:11:17 AM  
I have a theme going. Changes. Damn Tupac and Bruce Hornsby.
 
2017-09-25 05:28:56 AM  

puffy999: The whistle had not blown when Sherman'shiat took place. He'd literally just stepped out. How is that a "dead ball" foul?


The QB stepped out of bounds before Sherman hit him. By rule, this is a dead ball foul at the end of the run. If Sherman hit him before he stepped out, it would have been a legal hit.

The whistle is irrelevant. It does not stop the play.

puffy999: Note: the NFL rulebook is complex


Not to a football official.

; )

puffy999: I said that. More than once. But, if he'd been tossed, I'd have not disagreed, given how he continued jawing WELL after the flag, with his helmet off. Pulling your helmet off in an NFL game, right now, puts the refs in the mode where they don't want to take anyone's shiat. He REALLY came close there.


Yes he did, and I'm surprised he wasn't disqualified for that.

You NEVER take your helmet off on the field of play. That is a flagrant and disrespectful action toward the rules of the game, but officials' tolerances toward flagrant behavior vary between high school, college and pro. So mileage varies.

puffy999: Again, that hit took place before any whistle, as he stepped out, at the "end" of the play.


The whistle doesn't matter.

puffy999: IF that is the rule (go ahead, again, explain how a play BEFORE A WHISTLE is a "dead ball" foul), hell, I'll be damned, but I will flat-out say that the rule NEEDS to be changed.


The referee's whistle does not stop the play. Never has. The referees blow the whistle to stop the players from playing, but the whistle itself does not signal the official end of the play.

The play ends where and when the referee says it ends.

puffy999: I'll be damned, but I will flat-out say that the rule NEEDS to be changed.


You'll be damned.

puffy999: Again, a hit at the end of a play is a different animal than several flags thrown several seconds after a whistle has been blown.


There is no such thing as "at the end of the play". There is a live ball foul (while the play is ongoing) and a dead ball foul (after the play is over), and 4 types of penalties: Offense beyond or behind the basic spot (ie: end of the run), and defense beyond or behind the basic spot. Penalties that are assessed "at the end of the play" are all applied to the basic spot, and are applied after the play is over (look up all but one principle to understand this).

puffy999: Again, a hit at the end of a play is a different animal than several flags thrown several seconds after a whistle has been blown


No its not. They're all dead ball fouls.

puffy999: If that is the NFL rule, it needs to change.


Feel free to petition the NFL with your list of grievances. I look forward to hearing how it turns out.
 
2017-09-25 05:31:44 AM  

puffy999: I will say though, for those saying "he should have been ejected," how often is a player ejected for chirping at a ref within a short window? Be honest.


Beats me. How often does a player get three flags in one play including one unsportsmanlike,  and then continue to berate an official,  helmet off,  for an additional 90 seconds?

I am not sure that "precedence" ought to be your argument.
 
2017-09-25 07:42:44 AM  

desertgeek: Analgesic: He took his helmet off to argue the first 2 calls, then chased the ref down afterwards still vehemently arguing with his helmet off. I was surprised he didn't get tossed. No matter the right or wrong of the first 2 calls on that play, his reaction should have seen him ejected.

Yeah, they should've tossed him after he kept it up.

And watching it again, I think the first foul should've been holding instead of PI.


Defensive holding/pass interference all depends on whether the ball has been thrown yet. If it happens before the ball is thrown, holding. If it happens while the ball is in the air, pass interference. So it's less about Sherman's actions and strictly about where the ball was when the infraction occurred.
 
2017-09-25 09:04:54 AM  
he was just participating in the flag protests.
 
2017-09-25 09:27:49 AM  
More rules lawyers here than at a D&D convention...
 
2017-09-25 10:17:05 AM  

puffy999: The whistle had not blown when Sherman'shiat took place. He'd literally just stepped out. How is that a "dead ball" foul?


Maybe it's just how the rule is written.  Technically, he can't hit him late unless he is out of bounds right?  So it occurred after the play was dead.
 
2017-09-25 10:56:58 AM  
img.fark.net

So the receiver turns into the middle of the field on a timing pattern, gets smushed as shown above and that's a "50/50" call?

Only to some fans of the 'Hawks, I promise you that.
 
2017-09-25 10:59:01 AM  

Jim from Saint Paul: [img.fark.net image 632x276]

So the receiver turns into the middle of the field on a timing pattern, gets smushed as shown above and that's a "50/50" call?

Only to some fans of the 'Hawks, I promise you that.


What's funny is that an earlier poster said "that is not DPI by definition".

What alternate universe definition is being used where that is not textbook DPI?
 
2017-09-25 11:02:55 AM  

mikaloyd: Richard the cryin' hearted


mika FTW
 
2017-09-25 11:03:51 AM  

Ishkur: The referee's whistle does not stop the play. Never has. The referees blow the whistle to stop the players from playing, but the whistle itself does not signal the official end of the play.


Then why do Chargers fans hate Ed Hochuli?
 
2017-09-25 11:05:06 AM  
So... teams can win imaginary Super Bowls, the NFL is basically fixed, and deadball fouls 'NEED' be impossible before the whistle. Thanks Seahawks fans. Have any of you considered the Politics tab? I have a feeling you'd fit right in over there.
 
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