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(LA Times)   Anaheim taxpayers built a $108.2 million parking garage for Disneyland. In return, Disney -- whose stock market value is about $152 billion -- pays them $1 a year   ( latimes.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Disney, Disneyland Resort, The Walt Disney Company, Anaheim, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, Anaheim, California, Disney's Anaheim, city  
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1726 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Sep 2017 at 10:36 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-24 06:20:31 PM  
While I'm completely 100% against any kind of taxpayer funding for private business and would not support this under any circumstances, they're probably going to do pretty well on parking taxes.
 
2017-09-24 07:24:47 PM  
They'll get it paid back eventually, then.
 
2017-09-24 07:52:30 PM  
I imagine that 60% of sales tax received from Anaheim is from a Disney business, or one that is only there because of Disney (hotels, etc)
 
2017-09-24 07:54:14 PM  
Anaheim had to take that deal, otherwise Disney would have built the parking lot in a different city.
 
2017-09-24 08:10:18 PM  

BadReligion: I imagine that 60% of sales tax received from Anaheim is from a Disney business, or one that is only there because of Disney (hotels, etc)


Yeah, I am not a fan of giving out subsidies all over, but Anaheim has long been a company town.
 
2017-09-24 08:18:26 PM  
The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.
 
2017-09-24 09:10:12 PM  
Well, it's no Ark Encounter, but I guess they might get some money back from the small world of tourists that visit.
 
2017-09-24 10:28:05 PM  

BMFPitt: While I'm completely 100% against any kind of taxpayer funding for private business and would not support this under any circumstances, they're probably going to do pretty well on parking taxes.


The only revenue the city is seeing from this arrangement is revenue sharing from a small portion of the lot that they only get from convention center-related events, which is minuscule compared to the revenues that Disney is getting from the rest of the revenue generated from the structure. A structure that will ultimately cost the city a billion dollars and change.
 
2017-09-24 10:30:36 PM  
It's also worth noting that Disney is shielded from entertainment taxes for the next twenty years, and that much of the tax revenue that is collected by the city has been structured to sit in a surplus fund rather than be used for public services.

Paying taxes is for poors, not our blessed Job Creators.
 
2017-09-24 10:50:36 PM  
So, Disney collects the parking fee?
 
2017-09-24 11:06:46 PM  
It's still cheaper than a stadium
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2017-09-24 11:14:03 PM  
Yes, but the lease is for 118.2 million years, so thats $10 million profit!
 
2017-09-24 11:24:47 PM  
Disney is a huge economic factor in the well-being of the city, both as a tourist draw and as an employer, we are all aware of that. It's not a compelling argument for Anaheim to pay for the parking garage. Disney can afford to pay their own bills.
 
2017-09-24 11:42:16 PM  

ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.


That doesn't obligate Anaheim to provide them corporate welfare.

Disneyland is not an NFL team that can just relocate to any city. Anaheim has a lot of leverage here, which is what makes this all the more ridiculous.

And I'm sure that over the years Anaheim has spent a lot on infrastructure for the benefit of Disneyland.
 
2017-09-24 11:44:06 PM  
The area around Disneyland is a hellhole.
 
2017-09-24 11:51:06 PM  

Catlenfell: It's still cheaper than a stadium


But more absurd.

Let's pretend for the moment that sports teams are a net economic benefit after the corporate welfare.

1. Disneyland cannot relocate like sports teams do when cities refuse to build them a new stadium.

2. Disney is one of the largest corporations in the world.
 
2017-09-24 11:54:45 PM  

ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.


And what impact would not building this parking garage have had on that?
 
2017-09-25 12:07:21 AM  

dywed88: ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.

And what impact would not building this parking garage have had on that?


Disney might up and move to Fresno.  Ever considered that, eh?

Chexmix, Mouse Hater.

/at least give everyone in Anaheim a free parking pass and some tix, FFS.
 
2017-09-25 12:10:07 AM  

dywed88: ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.

And what impact would not building this parking garage have had on that?


Disney's argument was that it needed the subsidy in order to justify investing the money to expand Disneyland. Which is patently farking absurd. I can imagine the board meeting. "Well, we stand to make several billion dollars over the life of this expansion project, but we just can't manage the costs of building this parking structure."
 
2017-09-25 12:14:06 AM  
Threads like these are farking depressing. Democrats imposing purity tests on each other all over the politics tab and then rushing in here and other threads like the one about Iowa's long sloppy blowjob to Google, because they haven't met a tax expenditure they didn't like.
 
2017-09-25 12:19:21 AM  

Cagey B: dywed88: ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.

And what impact would not building this parking garage have had on that?

Disney's argument was that it needed the subsidy in order to justify investing the money to expand Disneyland. Which is patently farking absurd. I can imagine the board meeting. "Well, we stand to make several billion dollars over the life of this expansion project, but we just can't manage the costs of building this parking structure."


Let's not forget that attendance is so high at Disney parks that they've raised admission prices with the intent of pricing people out so they can ease congestion.
 
2017-09-25 12:42:46 AM  

Cagey B: dywed88: ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.

And what impact would not building this parking garage have had on that?

Disney's argument was that it needed the subsidy in order to justify investing the money to expand Disneyland. Which is patently farking absurd. I can imagine the board meeting. "Well, we stand to make several billion dollars over the life of this expansion project, but we just can't manage the costs of building this parking structure."


California Adventure was essentially a failure and has been reconfigured now multiple times to finally get it to a point where it is a legit destination park and not "the park you go to when Disneyland is too busy".  That's not to say Disneyland wouldn't make their money back, but nothing is guaranteed in the theme park business.  That said, Disney has more than enough cash on hand and financing capability to build a parking structure and should've done it themselves.  Anaheim isn't diversified and is too worried about their cash cow letting the park stagnate.  Disney doesn't need Disneyland, Disneyland is just a merchandise delivery and public awareness service that augments their income and provides them with demographic data about consumers
 
2017-09-25 12:43:25 AM  

fusillade762: Anaheim had to take that deal, otherwise Disney would have built the parking lot in a different city.


The sarcasm in your post was overwhelming, but it's actually possible. Garden Grove is less than a block away from Disneyland. As it is, the garage is far enough that people take mass transportation from the garage to the park. They could build the garage in Garden Grove and either build an extension of the monorail or use buses on the city streets.

Of course, it's a lot more complicated than that. But it's possible.
 
2017-09-25 12:51:58 AM  

thornhill: Let's not forget that attendance is so high at Disney parks that they've raised admission prices with the intent of pricing people out so they can ease congestion.


I went on New Year's Eve a few years ago.  Big mistake.  That's their busiest day.  And holy fark, it was.  It was so farking packed we couldn't actually get out of the park directly, because we got caught in a mass of American fatness so vast that we were forced into the Indy Jones area, and then we had to get back onto Main Street from there.

And apparently New Year's Day is dead.
 
kab
2017-09-25 01:09:58 AM  
Governance through the will of the people in full effect.
 
2017-09-25 01:11:17 AM  

thornhill: Catlenfell: It's still cheaper than a stadium

But more absurd.

Let's pretend for the moment that sports teams are a net economic benefit after the corporate welfare.

1. Disneyland cannot relocate like sports teams do when cities refuse to build them a new stadium.

2. Disney is one of the largest corporations in the world.


That would make it less absurd.  Not more.  There are few reasons to be in Anaheim outside of the operation that operates 365 days a year.  Disney could merely blink and send millions of potential tax dollars somewhere else.
 
2017-09-25 01:17:56 AM  

Shazam999: thornhill: Let's not forget that attendance is so high at Disney parks that they've raised admission prices with the intent of pricing people out so they can ease congestion.

I went on New Year's Eve a few years ago.  Big mistake.  That's their busiest day.  And holy fark, it was.  It was so farking packed we couldn't actually get out of the park directly, because we got caught in a mass of American fatness so vast that we were forced into the Indy Jones area, and then we had to get back onto Main Street from there.

And apparently New Year's Day is dead.


If there is a hell, that's my version of it.
 
2017-09-25 01:24:03 AM  

ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.


Okay, and?  What would also be lower is infrastructure costs, emergency personnel costs (Disney may pay for police/fire/EMS in the park, but their presence increases costs of it citywide). As a resident noted in the article, city streets gleam in the blocks around the park, but sidewalks are crumbling in neighborhoods - the sidewalks in front of the homes of taxpayers that just built Disney a brand-new 11,000 space garage, that Disney is pocketing $20 per car from, that Disney takes ownership of once the bonds are paid back.

The real sonofabiatch is that Disney fights so hard against the entertainment tax - $1 per ticket, when they're selling for $110?  Like Joe Blow is going to balk at the $111 ticket and walk off in a huff, his crying kids in tow. I get the company not wanting to pay their own tax bill and bullying the city into footing the bill for upgrades, but fighting a sub 1% surcharge paid directly by the customer seems a bit overboard to me.
 
2017-09-25 01:26:44 AM  

Krieghund: fusillade762: Anaheim had to take that deal, otherwise Disney would have built the parking lot in a different city.

The sarcasm in your post was overwhelming, but it's actually possible. Garden Grove is less than a block away from Disneyland. As it is, the garage is far enough that people take mass transportation from the garage to the park. They could build the garage in Garden Grove and either build an extension of the monorail or use buses on the city streets.

Of course, it's a lot more complicated than that. But it's possible.


Yeah, but then your car would smell like Lou-Dog.
 
2017-09-25 01:42:21 AM  
Ask any number of artists (actors, animators, musicians, etc) and they'll tell you that you don't f*ck with the Mouse.
 
2017-09-25 02:04:48 AM  
My wife and I have gone to the "Roy's" near Disney a few times, then walked through the outdoor mall they have there and visited a few spots. The "House of Blues" should be (or already has) moved there. But it's a weird mix of shops and empty night spots.

We stopped into the Irish Pub at the end of the block a while back and talked with the manager there for a while, since we were the only patrons. He told us the entire complex was a mess. It was designed to attract tourists, but it was several blocks from Disney and most of the tourists would stay there. So most shops were vacant and the anchor restaurants in the front were packed, the "nightlife" places in the back were vacant.

Sure, Disney employs a ton of people and pays a ton of taxes. But Anaheim is still a dump.
 
2017-09-25 02:07:20 AM  

SeaMan Stainz: Shazam999: thornhill: Let's not forget that attendance is so high at Disney parks that they've raised admission prices with the intent of pricing people out so they can ease congestion.

I went on New Year's Eve a few years ago.  Big mistake.  That's their busiest day.  And holy fark, it was.  It was so farking packed we couldn't actually get out of the park directly, because we got caught in a mass of American fatness so vast that we were forced into the Indy Jones area, and then we had to get back onto Main Street from there.

And apparently New Year's Day is dead.

If there is a hell, that's my version of it.


I was a vendor to a shiatload of Southern California hotels, and holy shiat, the Katella/Harbor neighborhood still is my own personal hell.
 
2017-09-25 02:31:52 AM  

Shazam999: The area around Disneyland is a hellhole.


That's why they didn't repeat that mistake with Disney World.   They bought up the whole area around it.  When Walt built Disneyland it was just a bunch of orange groves.   People immediately saw the benefit to having a hotel or business next to Disneyland and the entire thing became a carnival atmosphere with some pretty seedy elements creeping in.  Exactly the type of thing Walt was trying to get away from.  He and Walter Knott were the main pioneers of the clean, family friendly amusement park.

Of course, nowadays you can pretty much get right off the freeway and into the aforementioned parking structure without touching Anaheim, it has its own ramp.

That garage is the ugliest thing that Disney operates.   Why they chose to make it so utilitarian is beyond me - it's the first thing you see when you arrive at the park.  It's gotten a lot of complaints for its (lack of) aesthetics.  I do miss the old days of the parking lot with the traditional trams, and Walt's perpetually low parking fees.   The original parking lot is now underneath California Adventure.

These days we live close enough to the LA area that we can do Disneyland in one day.  Take a day off and go on a weekday during winter (the weather is still in the 60s and 70s typically, just right.) Arrive before opening, hit all the big rides first without lines, then spend the rest of the day doing nostalgia rides and other attractions.  Go home early evening after having dinner in the park.  That makes for a very enjoyable experience vs. peak season or weekends where you just stand in lines all day, even with the new fast passes to help.  Disneyland is busy ALL the time now, but actually still pleasant and enjoyable off season and mid-week.
 
2017-09-25 03:33:26 AM  
Disney gets the parking fees? Pure mother farkery! A hundred dollars a head at the gate wasn't enough for them?

/sure, the city would probably lose money at $20 a car
 
2017-09-25 05:06:03 AM  

lizyrd: The real sonofabiatch is that Disney fights so hard against the entertainment tax - $1 per ticket, when they're selling for $110?  Like Joe Blow is going to balk at the $111 ticket and walk off in a huff, his crying kids in tow. I get the company not wanting to pay their own tax bill and bullying the city into footing the bill for upgrades, but fighting a sub 1% surcharge paid directly by the customer seems a bit overboard to me.


Keep in mind that you're talking about between $100-200K per day.  Not that I disagree with you in the least, but I'm sure the Disney bean counters would cry buckets if they had to hand over that much dough, even if it wasn't theirs to begin with.
 
2017-09-25 05:37:30 AM  
"A lot of these things aren't a natural, normal thing for any city to do," the mayor said. "It is way too much."

First time dealing with a large corporation Mr. Mayor? The city does have an advantage here, its not like Disney can up and move to another city like any other big corporate entity or a sports team.
 
2017-09-25 07:13:44 AM  

thornhill: But more absurd.

Let's pretend for the moment that sports teams are a net economic benefit after the corporate welfare.

1. Disneyland cannot relocate like sports teams do when cities refuse to build them a new stadium.

2. Disney is one of the largest corporations in the world.


1 is correct, 2 is irrelevant.  Both are superceded by:

0. No corporate welfare ever, for anyone.
 
2017-09-25 07:17:20 AM  

thornhill: ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.

That doesn't obligate Anaheim to provide them corporate welfare.

Disneyland is not an NFL team that can just relocate to any city. Anaheim has a lot of leverage here, which is what makes this all the more ridiculous.

And I'm sure that over the years Anaheim has spent a lot on infrastructure for the benefit of Disneyland.


One wonders though, if you were an elected official in Anaheim what your response to "were moving Disney out of here and into LA or another city if you don't build this parking garage" would be?  No doubt Disney provided consultants to spin the cost/benefit to the local yokels as well.  Basically the park is a bunch of structures and plastic that could be moved if necessary.  It is very much like the business tactics of the NFL (which are also exempt from many taxes).
 
2017-09-25 07:38:04 AM  

Northern: One wonders though, if you were an elected official in Anaheim what your response to "were moving Disney out of here and into LA or another city if you don't build this parking garage" would be?


i.pinimg.com
 
2017-09-25 07:48:48 AM  

BMFPitt: While I'm completely 100% against any kind of taxpayer funding for private business and would not support this under any circumstances, they're probably going to do pretty well on parking taxes.


"Over the last two decades or so, as Disney's annual profit has soared, the company has secured subsidies, incentives, rebates and protections from future taxes in Anaheim that, in aggregate, would be worth more than $1 billion, according to public policy experts who have reviewed deals between the company and the city.
Disney has negotiated these pacts with a carrot-and-stick approach - one that has often included the company's threat of directing its investment dollars elsewhere. The agreements have spurred development of billion-dollar projects, including the California Adventure theme park and the forthcoming Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge area at Disneyland."

Nope.  The city has given Disney a billion dollars in tax breaks because Disney puts a gun to its own head and says we won't invest and make more money if you don't let us get shiat at the expense of the rest of your citizens.  It's farking ridiculous.
 
2017-09-25 07:51:49 AM  

Cagey B: dywed88: ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.

And what impact would not building this parking garage have had on that?

Disney's argument was that it needed the subsidy in order to justify investing the money to expand Disneyland. Which is patently farking absurd. I can imagine the board meeting. "Well, we stand to make several billion dollars over the life of this expansion project, but we just can't manage the costs of building this parking structure."


Bingo
 
2017-09-25 07:52:23 AM  
Corporate extortion.  It has become the American way to do business and it will continue as long as politicians and the public go along with it.
 
2017-09-25 09:21:04 AM  

fusillade762: Anaheim had to take that deal, otherwise Disney would have built the parking lot in a different city.


And they threatened to move the entire theme park to Fullerton!
 
2017-09-25 09:26:04 AM  

Cagey B: Threads like these are farking depressing. Democrats imposing purity tests on each other all over the politics tab and then rushing in here and other threads like the one about Iowa's long sloppy blowjob to Google, because they haven't met a tax expenditure they didn't like.


Fark join-date checks out. Screwed up syntax and verb tense check out.

Dude, you really are not too good at this, are you? Are they scrapping the bottom of the barrel in St. Pete?
 
2017-09-25 09:28:51 AM  

thornhill: Cagey B: dywed88: ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.

And what impact would not building this parking garage have had on that?

Disney's argument was that it needed the subsidy in order to justify investing the money to expand Disneyland. Which is patently farking absurd. I can imagine the board meeting. "Well, we stand to make several billion dollars over the life of this expansion project, but we just can't manage the costs of building this parking structure."

Let's not forget that attendance is so high at Disney parks that they've raised admission prices with the intent of pricing people out so they can ease congestion.


Last time Mrs. harlee and harlee went to California Adventure (with a free pass we found in the laundry room!) most people there were tatted up and looked like gang bangers and drug dealers. They are the only ones who can afford to go there.
 
2017-09-25 09:53:55 AM  

Cagey B: dywed88: ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.

And what impact would not building this parking garage have had on that?

Disney's argument was that it needed the subsidy in order to justify investing the money to expand Disneyland. Which is patently farking absurd. I can imagine the board meeting. "Well, we stand to make several billion dollars over the life of this expansion project, but we just can't manage the costs of building this parking structure."


Disney is only following a general business rule: "Never spend your own money if you don't have to."
 
2017-09-25 09:57:55 AM  

Northern: thornhill: ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.

That doesn't obligate Anaheim to provide them corporate welfare.

Disneyland is not an NFL team that can just relocate to any city. Anaheim has a lot of leverage here, which is what makes this all the more ridiculous.

And I'm sure that over the years Anaheim has spent a lot on infrastructure for the benefit of Disneyland.

One wonders though, if you were an elected official in Anaheim what your response to "were moving Disney out of here and into LA or another city if you don't build this parking garage" would be?  No doubt Disney provided consultants to spin the cost/benefit to the local yokels as well.  Basically the park is a bunch of structures and plastic that could be moved if necessary.  It is very much like the business tactics of the NFL (which are also exempt from many taxes).


I would laugh in their face and say good luck not only finding a plot of land large enough to house the park, but also as sufficient surrounding space for hotels and is within an hour of LAX. And I'd point out how terrible the NPV is on spending a few billion to build a new park to save $100 million is vs just spending $100 million.

Given how relatively small Disneyland is, I'm sure they've looked at moving the park numerous times, and concluded that they cannot do any better (in fact, Walt Disney originally wanted it to be in Burbank near the studios, but even back in the '50s there wasn't enough land up there).
 
2017-09-25 10:39:34 AM  
Sounds to me like Disney has better negotiators than Anaheim.
 
2017-09-25 10:50:30 AM  

BadReligion: I imagine that 60% of sales tax received from Anaheim is from a Disney business, or one that is only there because of Disney (hotels, etc)


Article even tries to mention it hoping readers are too stupid to understand:

"More than 20 years after Anaheim agreed to pay for the parking facility as part of Disneyland Resort's expansion"

Huh. So they pay full tax on their resort buildout and in exchange got a break on the garage? Funny how that works.

I guess people who pay full price for a car that includes oil changes should start paying "their fair share" for those oil changes.
 
2017-09-25 10:51:24 AM  

ralphjr: The city of Anaheim takes in about $155 Million per year in hotel taxes alone. Without Disneyland, I'm pretty sure that number would be much, much lower.


"More than 20 years after Anaheim agreed to pay for the parking facility as part of Disneyland Resort's expansion"

Almost like the parking garage was a tradeoff for those hotel taxes. Weird.
 
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