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(Guardian)   Why aren't religious beliefs classified as delusions? Here comes the psychology   ( theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Delusion, delusions, common persecutory delusions, Schizophrenia, mental model, nearest police officer, Tory leadership candidate, human Pez-dispenser Jacob  
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6409 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Sep 2017 at 12:39 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-21 08:12:58 PM  
img.fark.net
Psychology is not a science!
Checkdix, athieatard!
 
2017-09-21 08:21:52 PM  
Jesus speaks to me: OK
Jesus speaks to me through the toaster: whackjob

What difference does an appliance make?
 
2017-09-21 08:22:25 PM  
"If some man in Bedlam should entertain you with sober discourse, and you desire in taking leave to know what he were that you might another time requite his civility, and he should tell you he were God the Father; I think you need expect no extravagant action for argument of his madness."

-Thomas Hobbes,  "Leviathan" 1651
 
2017-09-21 08:26:51 PM  

dstanley: Jesus speaks to me: OK
Jesus speaks to me through the toaster: whackjob

What difference does an appliance make?


don ever trust a farking toaster rman.  Those things lie.  Why do you think Obama used microwaves?
 
2017-09-21 08:35:56 PM  

blastoh: dstanley: Jesus speaks to me: OK
Jesus speaks to me through the toaster: whackjob

What difference does an appliance make?

don ever trust a farking toaster rman.  Those things lie.  Why do you think Obama used microwaves?


I caught him at it. Does that make me crazy?

img.fark.net
 
2017-09-21 11:53:39 PM  
If I believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden I am considered a candidate for a mental institution.
If I believe in an invisible wizard who lives in the sky I am considered an upstanding pillar of the community.

Yeah....
 
2017-09-21 11:55:02 PM  

blastoh: dstanley: Jesus speaks to me: OK
Jesus speaks to me through the toaster: whackjob

What difference does an appliance make?

don ever trust a farking toaster rman.  Those things lie.  Why do you think Obama used microwaves?


img.fark.net
 
2017-09-22 12:31:51 AM  
so, depending a lot on your background, but also some kind of anomalous brain activity, claiming jesus didn't ride around on dinosaurs could be evidence of delusions requiring treatment. that could be an experience
 
2017-09-22 12:49:07 AM  

blastoh: dstanley: Jesus speaks to me: OK
Jesus speaks to me through the toaster: whackjob

What difference does an appliance make?

don ever trust a farking toaster rman.  Those things lie.  Why do you think Obama used microwaves?


Some toasters can be remarkably convincing liars.

img.fark.net
 
2017-09-22 12:50:26 AM  
Popular Delusion is my Devo cover band.
 
2017-09-22 12:51:05 AM  

21-7-b: so, depending a lot on your background, but also some kind of anomalous brain activity, claiming jesus didn't ride around on dinosaurs could be evidence of delusions requiring treatment. that could be an experience


Wait... I may be drinking but are you saying if I don't believe there was a Jesus who rode dinosaurs then my brain is farked up? And to think, this whole time I thought it was the drugs I did as a kid.
 
2017-09-22 12:52:29 AM  
 So, if you've been raised in an environment where you're told by everyone and everything that there's a kindly deity in the sky, or that the world is 6,000 years old, or that there are thousands of multi-armed gods controlling the world, or whatever, then why wouldn't you believe it? There's nothing that you experience on a day-to-day level that contradicts this, so your mental model of the world is fine with it.

That's why delusions are only diagnosed if they're not consistent with the person's existing belief system and views. A devout creationist talks to God while in church, that's fine. An avowedly atheist lawyer starts doing it in the middle of a meeting, they're probably delusional. If both of them suddenly started saying the world is going to end in 30 minutes because of angry frogs living in the sun, they'd both be considered delusional.


O, ffs, by that definition every scientific breakthrough is a delusion!

"We believe homo sapiens first appeared 75000 years ago."

"New evidence suggests homo sapiens first appeared 1 million years ago."

"You're delusional!"
 
2017-09-22 12:53:44 AM  
So are the born-again religious delusional if they weren't socialized (programmed?) as religious previously?
 
2017-09-22 12:54:55 AM  
Oh, they are! Trust me...
 
2017-09-22 12:59:21 AM  
So believing in FSM is crazy, but cutting off my bits because I feel that I was born in the wrong body is reasonable?

/ducks
//hides under bridge
 
2017-09-22 12:59:41 AM  
Money?
 
2017-09-22 12:59:42 AM  
So, if you've been raised in an environment where you're told by everyone and everything that there's a kindly deity in the sky, or that the world is 6,000 years old, or that there are thousands of multi-armed gods controlling the world, or whatever, then why wouldn't you believe it?

Because I'm no longer a child. The real question is why anyone over the age of ten does believe it.

/actually never believed any of it, even as a child
//I mean, c'mon! *eyeroll*
 
2017-09-22 12:59:56 AM  
Tradition, but nothing lasts forever.
 
2017-09-22 01:03:00 AM  
It's just bad parenting.  There are stages in life when you find out that your favorite childhood beliefs are a bunch of malarkey.  First, you find out that Santa is fake.  Then, you find out that pro wrestling is fake.  Then, if you've done things correctly, you find out that religious beliefs are fake.  A lot of people never make it to the third stage.
 
2017-09-22 01:04:10 AM  
That article did not make a convincing case for its conclusion. On the contrary, I think it made a stronger case for religion actually being a delusion.
 
2017-09-22 01:06:33 AM  
I had a Facebook friend who was all the farking time playing the SJW role - it was getting on my nerves.
You see, all his opinions, beliefs, points of views - no matter what it was regarding - were all kinda skewed by the fact that he also believed in the paranormal...ghosts, poltergeists, monsters and alike, which he posted about alongside his SJW crusades.

You can't take someone like that seriously. The brain's not right.
 
2017-09-22 01:10:39 AM  

biggamehickman: So believing in FSM is crazy, but cutting off my bits because I feel that I was born in the wrong body is reasonable?

/ducks
//hides under bridge


The FSM is real, anyone who doubts his existence is just trying to be contrary. I have had 2 experiences of his power and glory.

CSB: When I went to get my Driver's License at the DMV wearing my religious head gear, they made me wait. When I went to sit down suddenly all their computers went down, they were down the whole time I was waiting. After an hour they called me back up to the counter and said the state had approved my D/L photo with my religious headgear. As I was leaving I heard them announce the computers were working again.

The second time was when my knee was giving me problems, I tore my meniscus. The images they took of my knee showed the FSM's noodley appendages working to help my knee get better.

For those of you who are lost in the wilderness, I am hear to testify about the good news of the FSM and all his glory. Accept the FSM into your heart, for he has already accepted you.
R'amen
 
2017-09-22 01:11:49 AM  
I've never thought of it in these terms but Trump clearly doesn't believe in any kind of deity that would smite him for moral turpitude, yet he doesn't seem anywhere near smart enough to have figured out religion is bullshiat.
I'd pay a few bucks to root around in that mind of his. There must be many interesting things there.
 
2017-09-22 01:13:05 AM  

yelmrog: It's just bad parenting.  There are stages in life when you find out that your favorite childhood beliefs are a bunch of malarkey.  First, you find out that Santa is fake.  Then, you find out that pro wrestling is fake.  Then, if you've done things correctly, you find out that religious beliefs are fake.  A lot of people never make it to the third stage.


Technically, pro wrestling isn't fake it's predetermined. So it's an athletic exhibition like figure skating or gymnastics, but things that go on in the ring actually do happen.
 
2017-09-22 01:13:52 AM  
Isn't it just a numbers thing? If you claimed that an evil space lizard ate the sun every night you would be crazy, if 500 million people believe it then its religion.
 
2017-09-22 01:15:55 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: So, if you've been raised in an environment where you're told by everyone and everything that there's a kindly deity in the sky, or that the world is 6,000 years old, or that there are thousands of multi-armed gods controlling the world, or whatever, then why wouldn't you believe it? There's nothing that you experience on a day-to-day level that contradicts this, so your mental model of the world is fine with it.

That's why delusions are only diagnosed if they're not consistent with the person's existing belief system and views. A devout creationist talks to God while in church, that's fine. An avowedly atheist lawyer starts doing it in the middle of a meeting, they're probably delusional. If both of them suddenly started saying the world is going to end in 30 minutes because of angry frogs living in the sun, they'd both be considered delusional.

O, ffs, by that definition every scientific breakthrough is a delusion!

"We believe homo sapiens first appeared 75000 years ago."

"New evidence suggests homo sapiens first appeared 1 million years ago."

"You're delusional!"


I guess that means religious converts and children who have no belief until old enough to adopt the beliefs pushed on them are delusional for a split second while their beliefs change, then they are no longer delusional based on their new belief being compatible with their now extant beliefs.  So, no one is really delusion for more than an instant (if that, even) because we all believe what we believe when we believe what we believe.

/Stupid defintion.
//Psychology isn't a hard science.
///Don't believe.
 
2017-09-22 01:17:48 AM  
Why aren't religious beliefs classified as delusions?

Why, indeed.
 
2017-09-22 01:18:26 AM  

punkwrestler: yelmrog: It's just bad parenting.  There are stages in life when you find out that your favorite childhood beliefs are a bunch of malarkey.  First, you find out that Santa is fake.  Then, you find out that pro wrestling is fake.  Then, if you've done things correctly, you find out that religious beliefs are fake.  A lot of people never make it to the third stage.

Technically, pro wrestling isn't fake it's predetermined. So it's an athletic exhibition like figure skating or gymnastics, but things that go on in the ring actually do happen.


A lot of the "moves" are 100% fake, comparing it to figure skating or gymnastics is bullshiat. A round-off back hand spring is exactly what it looks like, WWE is full of deception. Not the same at all.

WWE Fake Moves!!!Worst Selling By WWE Wrestlers!!
Youtube EeE22vFVGj0
 
2017-09-22 01:18:51 AM  
Be one with the force young padawan.  Even though the force is movie cinematic fiction, at least you'll be at peace and leave me alone you annoying twit  https://www.jedichurch.org/
 
2017-09-22 01:19:04 AM  

TsarTom: I've never thought of it in these terms but Trump clearly doesn't believe in any kind of deity that would smite him for moral turpitude, yet he doesn't seem anywhere near smart enough to have figured out religion is bullshiat.
I'd pay a few bucks to root around in that mind of his. There must be many interesting things there.


Depends on their belief, a lot of wealthy people like the robber barons, believed in a god that offers forgiveness. They were the worst scum on earth most of their lives, yet when their health started to decline, the suddenly became great philanthropist and humanitarians. Kinda like Bill Gates.

I had a substitute teacher in Junior High School that use to call it fire insurance.
 
2017-09-22 01:20:25 AM  

mongbiohazard: That article did not make a convincing case for its conclusion. On the contrary, I think it made a stronger case for religion actually being a delusion.


I've never actually done any of the tests to prove general relativity, I just accept them as factual in my belief of general relativity. I guess that makes me delusional.

Or maybe there really is some difference between a delusion and a belief.
 
2017-09-22 01:20:48 AM  
Depends on who you ask.
img.fark.net
 
2017-09-22 01:21:46 AM  

GungFu: I had a Facebook friend who was all the farking time playing the SJW role - it was getting on my nerves.
You see, all his opinions, beliefs, points of views - no matter what it was regarding - were all kinda skewed by the fact that he also believed in the paranormal...ghosts, poltergeists, monsters and alike, which he posted about alongside his SJW crusades.

You can't take someone like that seriously. The brain's not right.


img.fark.net

Did you remember to mention how you have been oppressed as a white male christian? That'll stop him right in his tracks.

/seriously, your post is farking stupid
 
2017-09-22 01:23:26 AM  

jst3p: Depends on who you ask.
[img.fark.net image 300x320]


L Ron Hubbard is more amusing
 
2017-09-22 01:24:58 AM  

blastoh: dstanley: Jesus speaks to me: OK
Jesus speaks to me through the toaster: whackjob

What difference does an appliance make?

don ever trust a farking toaster rman.  Those things lie.  Why do you think Obama used microwaves?


img.fark.net
 
2017-09-22 01:25:56 AM  

Teufel Ritter: I guess that means religious converts and children who have no belief until old enough to adopt the beliefs pushed on them are delusional for a split second while their beliefs change, then they are no longer delusional based on their new belief being compatible with their now extant beliefs.  So, no one is really delusion for more than an instant (if that, even) because we all believe what we believe when we believe what we believe.

/Stupid defintion.
//Psychology isn't a hard science.
///Don't believe.


I believe that the universe just began, one second ago, as you read this statement.  After I had written it, which I never actually did, because that was before the universe began.  Everything just popped into existence, you, me, fark, complete with all our memories.  Prove me wrong.  Am I delusional?
 
2017-09-22 01:26:25 AM  

jst3p: punkwrestler: yelmrog: It's just bad parenting.  There are stages in life when you find out that your favorite childhood beliefs are a bunch of malarkey.  First, you find out that Santa is fake.  Then, you find out that pro wrestling is fake.  Then, if you've done things correctly, you find out that religious beliefs are fake.  A lot of people never make it to the third stage.

Technically, pro wrestling isn't fake it's predetermined. So it's an athletic exhibition like figure skating or gymnastics, but things that go on in the ring actually do happen.

A lot of the "moves" are 100% fake, comparing it to figure skating or gymnastics is bullshiat. A round-off back hand spring is exactly what it looks like, WWE is full of deception. Not the same at all.

[YouTube video]


geez you have a you tube of some "fake" moves. Here is a video of a performer that never was the best but as you can see there as several moves that would be impressive in Gymnastics.:
WWE Sin Cara Best Moves
Youtube U16YEs67cIU
 
2017-09-22 01:27:18 AM  

halotosis: Teufel Ritter: I guess that means religious converts and children who have no belief until old enough to adopt the beliefs pushed on them are delusional for a split second while their beliefs change, then they are no longer delusional based on their new belief being compatible with their now extant beliefs.  So, no one is really delusion for more than an instant (if that, even) because we all believe what we believe when we believe what we believe.

/Stupid defintion.
//Psychology isn't a hard science.
///Don't believe.

I believe that the universe just began, one second ago, as you read this statement.  After I had written it, which I never actually did, because that was before the universe began.  Everything just popped into existence, you, me, fark, complete with all our memories.  Prove me wrong.  Am I delusional?


Not anymore, no.  Your beliefs are consistent with your beliefs.  Clean bill of mental health, sir or ma'am.
 
2017-09-22 01:28:24 AM  
There are some delusions that are the grease that keeps society running. Such as "the government has your best interests in mind" or "there's justice for trespasses done against you in the afterlife,  but the same applies to you". There's a bunch that are just set decorations, such as the world is younger than you'd surmise by looking at folded shale, or that saying magic incantations on the third Thursday after the first full moon after Spring solstice will make rabbits lay chocolate eggs.

I think the problems come about from delusions that prompt actions. Mix a bit of seasonal affective disorder caused by moving people from the Mediterranean to Scotland with an idea that suicide in the name of religion is a way out, and we've seen the results. And there's a special kind of mental illness and delusional realm caused by watching the news.
 
2017-09-22 01:29:45 AM  
Thinking about Simulation Theory.

Assuming Sim. Theory is true and that our universe is a simulation from a higher technologically-physically advanced being, and that finding the Alpha Universe is a near impossibility that a society that can simulate, will simulate.

We ultimately could be some sim's, sub-sim's, sub-sim's, sub X 1010.

Then ultimately somewhere there could be a sentient creator thereby making all faiths or lack thereof a consequence of the self-replicating code originating from Universe Alpha and all faiths, new/old/crazy/sane consequently valid.
 
2017-09-22 01:31:33 AM  
Since the gay marriage article is also about religious opposition to the bill, does this mean the religious delusion trifecta is in play?
 
2017-09-22 01:31:41 AM  
I don't have the energy to explain the continuum of Fidelism to Scientism, or how there's a whole spectrum of rational belief that exists in between that most people land in, but when y'all are done in this edgy little echo chamber I'd recommend a little light reading on the subject.  Aristotle and Aquinas can give you a good start to move in to some more modern writing on it.
 
2017-09-22 01:34:17 AM  

foxy_canuck: I don't have the energy to explain the continuum of Fidelism to Scientism, or how there's a whole spectrum of rational belief that exists in between that most people land in, but when y'all are done in this edgy little echo chamber I'd recommend a little light reading on the subject.  Aristotle and Aquinas can give you a good start to move in to some more modern writing on it.


Surely you mean fideism.

/Sorry for calling you Shirley.
 
2017-09-22 01:35:59 AM  

punkwrestler: jst3p: punkwrestler: yelmrog: It's just bad parenting.  There are stages in life when you find out that your favorite childhood beliefs are a bunch of malarkey.  First, you find out that Santa is fake.  Then, you find out that pro wrestling is fake.  Then, if you've done things correctly, you find out that religious beliefs are fake.  A lot of people never make it to the third stage.

Technically, pro wrestling isn't fake it's predetermined. So it's an athletic exhibition like figure skating or gymnastics, but things that go on in the ring actually do happen.

A lot of the "moves" are 100% fake, comparing it to figure skating or gymnastics is bullshiat. A round-off back hand spring is exactly what it looks like, WWE is full of deception. Not the same at all.

[YouTube video]

geez you have a you tube of some "fake" moves. Here is a video of a performer that never was the best but as you can see there as several moves that would be impressive in Gymnastics.:
[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/U16YEs67cIU - 480x360]


You are misusing the term "predetermined" In sports the outcome is not (supposed to be) predetermined even if the routine is. WWE is closer to watching a Broadway musical than a sport even if some of the "moves" are athletic. Pro wrestling is in no sense of the word a competition. Sorry, given your username I bet you love it, but it is still fake.
 
2017-09-22 01:36:02 AM  
For most of human history (and in many places today) saying religious beliefs are delusions would result in at best shunning, banishment or loss of status, at worst direct punishment and even death.

That is why they are not classified as delusions. They are not classified as delusions because society says ou are not allowed to say they are.

Everything else is post-facto justification.
 
2017-09-22 01:36:20 AM  

STDMan69: GungFu: I had a Facebook friend who was all the farking time playing the SJW role - it was getting on my nerves.
You see, all his opinions, beliefs, points of views - no matter what it was regarding - were all kinda skewed by the fact that he also believed in the paranormal...ghosts, poltergeists, monsters and alike, which he posted about alongside his SJW crusades.

You can't take someone like that seriously. The brain's not right.

[img.fark.net image 425x609]

Did you remember to mention how you have been oppressed as a white male christian? That'll stop him right in his tracks.

/seriously, your post is farking stupid


SJW Dude, ghosts aren't real.
 
2017-09-22 01:37:12 AM  

jst3p: punkwrestler: jst3p: punkwrestler: yelmrog: It's just bad parenting.  There are stages in life when you find out that your favorite childhood beliefs are a bunch of malarkey.  First, you find out that Santa is fake.  Then, you find out that pro wrestling is fake.  Then, if you've done things correctly, you find out that religious beliefs are fake.  A lot of people never make it to the third stage.

Technically, pro wrestling isn't fake it's predetermined. So it's an athletic exhibition like figure skating or gymnastics, but things that go on in the ring actually do happen.

A lot of the "moves" are 100% fake, comparing it to figure skating or gymnastics is bullshiat. A round-off back hand spring is exactly what it looks like, WWE is full of deception. Not the same at all.

[YouTube video]

geez you have a you tube of some "fake" moves. Here is a video of a performer that never was the best but as you can see there as several moves that would be impressive in Gymnastics.:
[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/U16YEs67cIU - 480x360]

You are misusing the term "predetermined" In sports the outcome is not (supposed to be) predetermined even if the routine is. WWE is closer to watching a Broadway musical than a sport even if some of the "moves" are athletic. Pro wrestling is in no sense of the word a competition. Sorry, given your username I bet you love it, but it is still fake.


I take it back, a better comparison would be that of Disney on ice. Some of their moves are very impressive but they aren't trying to act as if they are an actual competition.
 
2017-09-22 01:38:19 AM  

GungFu: STDMan69: GungFu: I had a Facebook friend who was all the farking time playing the SJW role - it was getting on my nerves.
You see, all his opinions, beliefs, points of views - no matter what it was regarding - were all kinda skewed by the fact that he also believed in the paranormal...ghosts, poltergeists, monsters and alike, which he posted about alongside his SJW crusades.

You can't take someone like that seriously. The brain's not right.

[img.fark.net image 425x609]

Did you remember to mention how you have been oppressed as a white male christian? That'll stop him right in his tracks.

/seriously, your post is farking stupid

SJW Dude, ghosts aren't real.


Yo "dude", no shiat. Using SJW, especially when it has no farking relevance to anything else is pretty farking stupid.
 
2017-09-22 01:39:39 AM  
img.fark.net

"Believe me out of it." - J.R. "Bob" Dobbs
 
2017-09-22 01:42:27 AM  

punkwrestler: Since the gay marriage article is also about religious opposition to the bill, does this mean the religious delusion trifecta is in play?


Now this we can agree on.
 
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